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11 Biblical Tests of Genuine Salvation: Test #3 - Do You Obey God's Word?
SO4J ^ | John MacArthur

Posted on 01/07/2013 6:02:58 AM PST by xzins

11 Biblical Tests of Genuine Salvation: Test #3 - Do you Obey the Scriptures?

SO4J ^ | John MacArthur

Posted on 01/05/2013 7:35:55 AM PST by xzins

Test #1 of Series: 11 Biblical Tests of Genuine Salvation: Test #1 - Do you enjoy Fellowship with God and Christ?

Test #2 of Series: 11 Biblical Tests of Genuine Salvation: Test #2 - Are you Sensitive to Sin in your Life?

Is It Real? 11 Biblical Tests of Genuine Salvation by John MacArthur - 11 Questions to help one see if they are Biblically Saved. Helps to Examine Their Faith with God's Word (2 Cor 13:5) to see if one is Biblically Saved. How Can I Know I Am Saved

Test #3 - 11 Biblical Tests of Genuine Salvation: Do you Obey the Scriptures?

1 John 2:3 couldn't be clearer: "By this we know that we have come to know Him, if we keep His commandments." If you want to know whether you're a true Christian, ask yourself whether you obey the commandments of Scripture. That's how Jesus described a true disciple when giving His Great Commission to go into all the world and make disciples (Matt 28:20). Obedience to the commands of God produces assurance--the confidence of knowing for sure "that we have come to know Him." The Greek word translated "keep" in verse 3 speaks of watchful, careful, thoughtful obedience. It involves not only the act of obedience, but also the spirit of obedience--a willing, habitual safeguarding of the Word, not just in letter but in spirit. That's supported by the word translated "commandments," which refers specifically to the precepts of Christ rather than laws in general. Legal obedience demands perfection or penalty, whereas 1 John 2:3 is a call to gracious obedience because of the penalty Christ has already paid.

Verse 4 presents a logical contrast: "The one who says, 'I have come to know Him,' and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him." That person is making a false claim. "But whoever keeps His Word, in him the love of God has truly been perfected" (v. 5). How can you determine if you are a true Christian? Not by sentiment but by obedience.

If you desire to obey the Word out of gratitude for all Christ has done for you, and if you see that desire producing an overall pattern of obedience, you have passed an important test indicating the presence of saving faith.


TOPICS: General Discusssion
KEYWORDS: assurance; macarthur; salvation

1 posted on 01/07/2013 6:03:09 AM PST by xzins
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To: All
If you desire to obey the Word out of gratitude for all Christ has done for you, and if you see that desire producing an overall pattern of obedience,

Obedience is not to "obtain" salvation, but is gratitude FOR salvation received AND meaningful participation in the mission He has set before us.

Jesus' commandments are not grievous.

Matthew 28:19 "19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. "

Jesus said: John 13:34 "A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another.

2 posted on 01/07/2013 6:11:58 AM PST by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain and Proud of It! True supporters of our troops pray for their victory!)
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To: xzins
Rom 7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
Rom 7:15 For that which I do I know not: for not what I would, that do I practise; but what I hate, that I do.
Rom 7:16 But if what I would not, that I do, I consent unto the law that it is good.
Rom 7:17 So now it is no more I that do it, but sin which dwelleth in me.
Rom 7:18 For I know that in me, that is, in my flesh, dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me, but to do that which is good is not.
Rom 7:19 For the good which I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I practise.
Rom 7:20 But if what I would not, that I do, it is no more I that do it, but sin which dwelleth in me.
Rom 7:21 I find then the law, that, to me who would do good, evil is present.
Rom 7:22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
Rom 7:23 but I see a different law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity under the law of sin which is in my members.
Rom 7:24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me out of the body of this death?

Rom 7:25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then I myself with the mind serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

IMHO...As Paul lamented...we cannot live sinless lives. If we could - there would be no reason for the sacrifice on the cross.

3 posted on 01/07/2013 6:25:10 AM PST by wesagain (The God (Elohim) of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob is the One True GOD.)
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To: wesagain
John 14: 15 "If you love me, you will obey what I command. 16 And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Counselor to be with you forever-- 17 the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will be in you. 18 I will not leave you as orphans; I will come to you. 19 Before long, the world will not see me anymore, but you will see me. Because I live, you also will live. 20 On that day you will realize that I am in my Father, and you are in me, and I am in you. 21 Whoever has my commands and obeys them, he is the one who loves me. He who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I too will love him and show myself to him." 22 Then Judas (not Judas Iscariot) said, "But, Lord, why do you intend to show yourself to us and not to the world?" 23 Jesus replied, "If anyone loves me, he will obey my teaching. My Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him. 24 He who does not love me will not obey my teaching. These words you hear are not my own; they belong to the Father who sent me.
4 posted on 01/07/2013 6:32:35 AM PST by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain and Proud of It! True supporters of our troops pray for their victory!)
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To: xzins

Ephesians 2

8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

The only necessary proof of salvation is 100% faith in Christ.

The presence of good works in one’s life is not sufficient or necessary proof. The absence of sin is not necessary proof.


5 posted on 01/07/2013 6:33:06 AM PST by fishtank (The denial of original sin is the root of liberalism.)
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To: xzins

This is very timely. Thank you, xzins.


6 posted on 01/07/2013 6:36:31 AM PST by KGeorge
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To: xzins

Love God with all your heart and soul and stregnth and live as you please.


7 posted on 01/07/2013 6:36:43 AM PST by John 3_19-21 (We need a Saviour)
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To: xzins

Ephesians 2

8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

The only necessary proof of salvation is 100% faith in Christ.

The presence of good works in one’s life is not sufficient or necessary proof. The absence of sin is not necessary proof.


8 posted on 01/07/2013 6:37:13 AM PST by fishtank (The denial of original sin is the root of liberalism.)
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To: fishtank

See each of the previous threads that are part of the series.

Also, see post #4, this thread.

Obedience to Christ for a Christian is not about earning salvation; it is about loving Christ our God and being joyful to follow Him. Since they are already Christian, it obviously isn’t about obtaining salvation.

However, what does it mean is you delight in NOT following His instruction or in being apathetic about His instructions?

Paul says to examine ourselves to see if our faith is genuine. Disobedience to Christ should concern us. It should cause us either to repent/confess, or perhaps to wonder at the genuineness of our faith (2 Co 13:5)


9 posted on 01/07/2013 6:38:14 AM PST by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain and Proud of It! True supporters of our troops pray for their victory!)
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To: fishtank

See each of the previous threads that are part of the series.

Also, see post #4, this thread.

Obedience to Christ for a Christian is not about earning salvation; it is about loving Christ our God and being joyful to follow Him. Since they are already Christian, it obviously isn’t about obtaining salvation.

However, what does it mean if you delight in NOT following His instruction or in being apathetic about His instructions?

Paul says to examine ourselves to see if our faith is genuine. Disobedience to Christ should concern us. It should cause us either to repent/confess, or perhaps to wonder at the genuineness of our faith (2 Co 13:5)


10 posted on 01/07/2013 6:38:27 AM PST by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain and Proud of It! True supporters of our troops pray for their victory!)
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To: KGeorge

You are welcome. Thank you for your kind words.


11 posted on 01/07/2013 6:40:18 AM PST by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain and Proud of It! True supporters of our troops pray for their victory!)
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To: John 3_19-21
Love God with all your heart and soul and stregnth and live as you please.

Provided one means it and isn't using the words as some kind of intellectual dodge.

12 posted on 01/07/2013 6:41:57 AM PST by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain and Proud of It! True supporters of our troops pray for their victory!)
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To: xzins

How do you know you passed?

Nothing we can do will ever bridge the gap between the flesh and perfection. If we could enter heaven with works there would be no need for salvation.

These man made tests do nothing other than highlight our deficiency. If I were searching for a faith and saw the above requirements I would have to pass.

Jesus IS our salvation.


13 posted on 01/07/2013 6:42:31 AM PST by PJammers (I can't help it... It's my idiom!)
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To: PJammers
These man made tests do nothing

The Apostle Paul said, "2 Cor 13:5 (NASB) "TEST YOURSELVES to see if you are IN the FAITH; EXAMINE YOURSELVES! Or do you NOT recognize this about yourselves, that JESUS CHRIST is in you—unless indeed you FAIL the TEST?" "

If we believe Paul inspired by God in the writing of 2 Corinthians, then we don't consider his words "man made".

14 posted on 01/07/2013 6:44:55 AM PST by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain and Proud of It! True supporters of our troops pray for their victory!)
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To: xzins
Test #3 - Do You Obey God's Word?

Many people who call themselves believers fail this test. Yes we are saved by faith but our works prove our faith. If we do not follow God's word and have good works (i.e. good fruit) then are we really God's followers? Such was the fig tree Jesus cursed. Many people overemphasize "faith" apart from works but forget that the Biblical Hebrew notion of real faith meant believeing and doing, not just "believing".

15 posted on 01/07/2013 6:49:25 AM PST by DeoVindiceSicSemperTyrannis
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To: xzins
Galatians 2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ lives in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

Deuteronomy 6:16 You shall not test the Lord your God as you did as Massah

Matthew 4:7 You shall not put the Lord your God to the test.
16 posted on 01/07/2013 6:55:36 AM PST by John 3_19-21 (We need a Saviour)
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To: DeoVindiceSicSemperTyrannis
It is important to remember that we seek to have genuine faith and not to supplant the requirement of faith or overthrow the importance of faith. It's also important to remember that the same bible that tells us to visit widows and orphans also tells us to love one another and many more things. "Romans 1:17 For in the gospel a righteousness from God is revealed, a righteousness that is by faith from first to last, just as it is written: "The righteous will live by faith." "Romans 14:23 and everything that does not come from faith is sin."
17 posted on 01/07/2013 7:06:41 AM PST by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain and Proud of It! True supporters of our troops pray for their victory!)
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To: John 3_19-21
The same Paul you quote from Galatians wrote: 2 Cor 13:5 (NASB) "TEST YOURSELVES to see if you are IN the FAITH; EXAMINE YOURSELVES! Or do you NOT recognize this about yourselves, that JESUS CHRIST is in you—unless indeed you FAIL the TEST?"

He does not ask us to "test God", but to test ourselves to determine if our faith is authentic.

Apparently, Paul wasn't impressed with fake faith.

18 posted on 01/07/2013 7:09:45 AM PST by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain and Proud of It! True supporters of our troops pray for their victory!)
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To: xzins
It's a "cart and a horse" thing.

The Pharisies used the Law and or visible performance or non-performance of the Law to exault themselves and in effect, turn the Hebrew people away from a loving relationship with God.

Too many of today's religious leaders would rather control thier congregations with doctrine and "tests" than simply share the Word, and let the Holy Spirit guide.
19 posted on 01/07/2013 7:14:10 AM PST by John 3_19-21 (We need a Saviour)
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To: John 3_19-21

Nonetheless, Paul wrote what he wrote. He doesn’t ask your pastor or religious leader to examine you; he instructs YOU to examine YOU to test to see if your faith is genuine.

Using the Word of God as a measure by which to conduct that test makes much more sense than either (1) ignoring Paul’s instruction and pretending it isn’t in the Bible, or (2) devising one’s own personal little test that is not connected to the Word of God.


20 posted on 01/07/2013 7:23:19 AM PST by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain and Proud of It! True supporters of our troops pray for their victory!)
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To: xzins

Brother, I’m not trying to be combative here.

I believe you need to look at the first century church and put the Pauline letters in context.

You can’t take select verses out of context and apply a measurement to anyone’s faith.

My point is checking “yes” to ten questions does not get you closer to God.

Should we examine where we are in our relationship with Him? If you are Christian this is probably a daily exercise.


21 posted on 01/07/2013 7:25:11 AM PST by PJammers (I can't help it... It's my idiom!)
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To: xzins

Agreed.


22 posted on 01/07/2013 7:26:19 AM PST by John 3_19-21 (We need a Saviour)
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To: PJammers

See post #20


23 posted on 01/07/2013 7:29:37 AM PST by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain and Proud of It! True supporters of our troops pray for their victory!)
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To: John 3_19-21

Excellent.

I do think a halfway decent pastor will eventually cover 2 Corinthians 13 as part of a church’s program of teaching the bible.


24 posted on 01/07/2013 7:32:20 AM PST by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain and Proud of It! True supporters of our troops pray for their victory!)
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To: DeoVindiceSicSemperTyrannis
Then what do we make of the lesson of Martha and Mary?

and what of the "little chidren" Christ Himself instructs us to be like? What works have thier Faith credited them?
25 posted on 01/07/2013 7:34:02 AM PST by John 3_19-21 (We need a Saviour)
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To: xzins

Brother, I wish you the best in your journey.

Peace.


26 posted on 01/07/2013 7:34:06 AM PST by PJammers (I can't help it... It's my idiom!)
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To: PJammers

Thanks, PJ


27 posted on 01/07/2013 7:36:11 AM PST by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain and Proud of It! True supporters of our troops pray for their victory!)
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To: All

Gospel Wars - Part 1 (paper)
by Dr. Robert L. Dean Jr.
http://deanbible.org/Media/Doctrines/A-G/Gospel%20Wars%20part%201.pdf

Gospel Wars - Part 2 (paper)
by Dr. Robert L. Dean Jr.
http://deanbible.org/Media/Doctrines/A-G/Gospel%20Wars%20part%202.pdf

What Is Wrong with Lordship Salvation? (article)
by Dr. Andy Woods
http://www.spiritandtruth.org/teaching/documents/articles/59/59.pdf

What Is Wrong with Lordship Salvation? (slide presentation)
by Dr. Andy Woods
http://www.spiritandtruth.org/teaching/topics_by_andy_woods/42_Lordship_Salvation/20120610_lordship_salvation_slides.pdf

The Free Grace Alliance
offers dozens of free papers examining problems with Lordship Salvation:
http://www.freegracealliance.com/articles.htm

Also see:

The Reign of the Servant Kings (book)
by Joseph C. Dillow


28 posted on 01/07/2013 9:01:59 AM PST by onthelookout777
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To: PJammers
How do you know you passed?

Interesting question. If your question deals with obedience, here are two scriptures with an answer:

1 Cor 4:18-20 - "Now some are puffed up, as though I were not coming to you. But I will come to you shortly, if the Lord wills, and I will test, not the word of those who are puffed up, but the power. For the kingdom of God is not in word but in power. "

1 John 3:22 - "And whatever we ask we receive from Him, because we keep His commandments and do those things that are pleasing in His sight. "

29 posted on 01/07/2013 9:47:53 AM PST by aimhigh ( Guns do not kill people. Planned Parenthood kills people.)
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To: xzins

Romans 5:19 “For as by one man’s disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.
20 Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound:
21 That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.”

John MacArthur can never be accused of antinomianism.

.... compared to the apostle Paul....


30 posted on 01/07/2013 10:40:11 AM PST by fishtank (The denial of original sin is the root of liberalism.)
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To: fishtank
But Paul says those accusations are false. He even says, "shall we sin so that grace may abound?....May it NEVER be!"

Paul says at the end of Romans:

19 Everyone has heard about your obedience, so I am full of joy over you; but I want you to be wise about what is good, and innocent about what is evil. 20 The God of peace will soon crush Satan under your feet. The grace of our Lord Jesus be with you. ....25 Now to him who is able to establish you by my gospel and the proclamation of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery hidden for long ages past, 26 but now revealed and made known through the prophetic writings by the command of the eternal God, so that all nations might believe and obey him-- 27 to the only wise God be glory forever through Jesus Christ! Amen.

31 posted on 01/07/2013 11:15:16 AM PST by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain and Proud of It! True supporters of our troops pray for their victory!)
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To: xzins; metmom; boatbums; caww; presently no screen name; smvoice; HarleyD; Springfield Reformer; ...

It would have been helpful if you had posted all the questions:

http://so4j.com/is-it-real-11-biblical-tests-of-genuine-salvation-john-macarthur.php#a1

1- Do You Enjoy Fellowship with Christ and the Father?

2 - Are You Sensitive to Sin?

3 - Do You Obey God’s Word?

4 - Do You Reject This Evil World?

5 - Do You Eagerly Await Christ’s Return?

6 - Do You See a Decreasing Pattern of Sin in Your Life?

7 - Do You Love Other Christians?

8 - Do You Experience Answered Prayer?

9 - Do You Experience the Ministry of the Holy Spirit?

10 - Can You Discern Between Spiritual Truth and Error?

11 - Have You Suffered Rejection Because of Your Faith?


There are degrees in each (and of conscience), and i do better or come short in more in some than others, and the main things is whether we are relying on Christ and His work to justify us, and thus characteristically are seeking to please Him, and repent when convicted of not doing so.

Let it first be said that it is clear that a believer is justified by faith and not on the basis of works, (Eph. 2:8,9) as if he could earn eternal life, for what we actually earn are the wages of sin, that being the second death. (Rm. 6:23; Rv. 20:11-15) Instead, the sinner is reconciled to God on God/Christ’s expense and credit, by His sinless shed blood and righteousness. (Rm. 3:25 - 5:1)

However, while faith appropriates justification - for God justifies the UnGodly by faith (Rm. 4:5) - yet it is abundantly manifest in Scripture that the kind of faith that justifies is one that effects characteristic obedience towards its Object, the Divine “Lord” Jesus whom the contrite sinner calls upon in conversion (Rm. 10:13) and in whose name he is baptized, (Acts 2:38) for he walks “in the steps of that faith of our father Abraham,” in newness of life. (Rm. 4:12; 6:4)

And while “a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law,” (Rm. 3:27) yet as the nature of justifying faith is one that confesses Christ (Rm. 10:10) in manifold ways (which justifies one as having true faith), therefore it is written that “not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified,” (Romans 2:13) as faith works to fulfill the righteousness of the law by yielding to the Spirit who inspired its writing. (Rm. 8:4) And it is abundantly evidenced that Scripture is the supreme transcendent material standard for obedience and testing truth claims.

As as salvation is by a faith that follows, and is rewarded, (Heb. 10:35) they are exhorted against drawing “back unto perdition” in unbelief, (Heb. 10:38,39) and having “an evil heart of unbelief in departing from the living God,” against which apostasy they are warned. (Heb. 3:12; 10:25-39; Gal. 5:1-5) And thus God chastens wayward believers in working to bring them to repentance, “that we should not be condemned with the world.” (1Cor. 11:32).

Believers thus are those who show forth works which correspond to “repentance toward God, and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ,” (Acts 20:21; 26:20), especially a unique sacrificial love for the brethren, manifesting, as it is written, “things that accompany salvation...For God is not unrighteous to forget your work and labour of love, which ye have shewed toward his name, in that ye have ministered to the saints, and do minister.” (Hebrews 6:9-10)

Therefore “just Lot” (2Pt. 2:7) — while not being as Abraham in character and spiritual maturity and often invoked as a carnal believer — immediately opened his house to holy men, and risked his life for the brethren, and managed to maintain 2 daughters and marry the rest in a city given to fornication, and which grieved him, and sought the Lord. Me thinks few believers today do or would as much.

Note that in conversion one is not believing on the Lord Jesus Christ apart from who He is, as repentance is implicit in believing on the Lord Jesus to save you from your sins, and which shows Christ to be Good and sin to be evil, and in conversion one is basically choosing light over darkness. (Jn. 3:19-21)

However, the degree of change resulting from conversion is according to light and grace received, (Lk. 12:48) which relates to both conscience and character and the depth of conversion.

Thus there are two extremes to be avoided in gospel preaching, that of requiring the candidate to quit all sin in order to come to Christ, while the other extreme fosters conversions that do not result in manifest overall change, as their labor tends towards coaxing sinners into saying a “sinner’s prayer” out of intellectual assent. If conversion was treated like marriage, the latter school would be like a father coaxing a man to assent to marry his daughter out of self interest, when he actually shows little interest in her or heart desire for what marriage offers.

It is argued by those who engage in this type of evangelism that it is presumptuous for us to claim to know the heart of another, but the Scripture states that the spiritual man has discernment, (1Cor. 2:15) which we hope all to have in both marriage and conversion. Biblical evangelism requires labor as Holy Spirit instruments of conviction “of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment, (Jn 16:8) as we see Peter and Paul doing in Acts, and which resulted in a basic repentance of faith in the Lord Jesus, thus effecting corresponding changes in heart and life. And or persecution!

As faith, confidence, trust, is manifest in changes in heart and deeds, (Ja. 2:18) and those who are given eternal life are those who characteristically follow the Lord, (Jn. 10:27, thus the famous assurance verse, 1Jn. 5:13, refers to what was written before it, that of overall characteristics which manifest conversion, in which ongoing, willful impenitent committing of known sin is contrary to salvific faith, and instead practicing righteousness is the norm for a believer. And which includes repentance when convicted by the Holy Spirit of sin. (2Cor. 7:6-11) Thus, “If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. “ (1 John 1:8-9)

In summation, as I see it, we are saved by faith in the risen Lord Jesus, and which Scripture reveals as being a faith that effects the “obedience of faith,” (Rm. 16:26) as a characteristic, which includes repentance when convicted of sin. And thus Scripture warns of believers forsaking the faith by impenitent moral sins and or critical doctrinal ones, while also showing that God plays for “keeps,” so that if there is a final forfeiting of that which faith procured, it is done in resistance, despite God working to bring one to repentance, which working is such places as in most of the letters to the churches in Rev. 2+3.


32 posted on 01/07/2013 11:32:36 AM PST by daniel1212 (Come to the Lord Jesus as a contrite damned+destitute sinner, trust Him to save you, then live 4 Him)
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To: daniel1212

It’s being posted as a series, and yes, I did post all 11 in the original post, to which a link is provided at the opening of this thread. This is the 3rd thread, and over the next days/weeks, I hope to post all 11, TGLW!

So, feel free, of course, to answer all at once, but also don’t think that hinders you from entering the discussion on each individual point, today’s being obedience to God’s Word.


33 posted on 01/07/2013 11:43:39 AM PST by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain and Proud of It! True supporters of our troops pray for their victory!)
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To: fishtank; xzins
John MacArthur can never be accused of antinomianism.

.... compared to the apostle Paul....

Paul wrote that Scripture that is accused of being antinomian.

That should tell you something.

34 posted on 01/07/2013 1:15:03 PM PST by metmom ( For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore & do not submit again to a yoke of slavery)
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To: xzins

If we could obey the scriptures... Jesus would not have had to die. Unfortunately, we are sinners who disobey every day. We need an advocate, a savior.
And even if we COULD follow scripture completely (which we can’t), remember, it is not works that gains us eternal life, it is the gift from God. Remember the story of the rich young man who claimed to have been obedient to the Law his whole life.


35 posted on 01/07/2013 2:36:57 PM PST by irishtenor (Everything in moderation, however, too much whiskey is just enough... Mark Twain)
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To: xzins
Exactly. We must live by faith. But if we have real faith we will also have good works to show it. As James 14-26 says,

What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?
15 If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,
16 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?
17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.
24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
25 Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way?
26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

Jesus did not call us to a wishy washy faith were were all we have to do is just "believe"...Simply acknowledging God and His Word is not the same as following Him.

36 posted on 01/07/2013 3:02:18 PM PST by DeoVindiceSicSemperTyrannis
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To: John 3_19-21

Believing is the first step. After that you must walk the walk or your claim to be a follower of God is false.


37 posted on 01/07/2013 3:03:37 PM PST by DeoVindiceSicSemperTyrannis
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To: aimhigh

Brother aimhigh,

Should we do the things suggested? I believe the answer is yes. Do we fail? Yes.

We are human and no matter what we do we will never meet the perfection God requires for entry into His Kingdom.

To suggest we must meet a “test” for our salvation preys on our guilt. It also tempts us to be prideful.

The beauty of Christianity is the gift of salvation is available to anyone who asks for it. Once saved you are a new being, however the transformation isn’t immediate. Unfortunately we have to carry this dead body around. We should be encouraging each other when we fail or about to fail. Not setting tripwires

I’m not calling anyone out or attempting to be disruptive. Debates like this should help us grow .

Peace.


38 posted on 01/07/2013 4:43:06 PM PST by PJammers (I can't help it... It's my idiom!)
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To: PJammers
To suggest we must meet a “test” for our salvation preys on our guilt.

My original post was related more to meeting the tests of obedience than testing for salvation. In regards to salvation, I agree with your post, to an extent. 1 John says, "by this we know we are of the truth, if we have love one another." Call it a test, or call it evidence.

Salvation is solely by faith. After a person says they have come to salvation, If there is no external change, then there probably was no internal change. Will we stumble from time to time? Of course. And over time, God will manifest His work in us.

39 posted on 01/07/2013 5:03:04 PM PST by aimhigh ( Guns do not kill people. Planned Parenthood kills people.)
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To: xzins
Paul says to examine ourselves to see if our faith is genuine. Disobedience to Christ should concern us. It should cause us either to repent/confess, or perhaps to wonder at the genuineness of our faith (2 Co 13:5)

I think people, being human and all, expect to have to DO something in order to GET something. And if that something is eternal life in heaven with God, then all the more they really think a lot is expected of them to deserve such a great thing. This is where the good news, the Gospel, throws some off. They cannot conceive that God is offering them the gift of eternal life and all He requires is faith, faith to believe and trust in what He has done for us. But, once someone finally understands this, the next question is then, what do I do now, what does God want me to do?

Of course, Scripture doesn't leave us hanging, God tells us what happens next and how our lives WILL be changed by the presence of the Holy Spirit within us and the way God is conforming us to the image of Christ. So, these guidelines MacAuthur gives are edifying ways that a Christian can examine his life to know if he has genuine faith or if he just got excited one time at a church meeting and "let Jesus into his heart" but nothing happened after that. I think we all question our faith sometimes, but, if we see these traits happening in our lives and we have received Christ as Savior and believe in Him, we can have assurance that God IS working in us and that tells us we ARE His.

Being confident of this very thing, that he which has begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ (Philippians 1:6)

Thank you for posting this series.

40 posted on 01/07/2013 9:24:34 PM PST by boatbums (God is ready to assume full responsibility for the life wholly yielded to Him.)
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To: boatbums

Thank you, boatbums, for a very thoughtful post.


41 posted on 01/08/2013 6:05:42 AM PST by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain and Proud of It! True supporters of our troops pray for their victory!)
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