Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Vanity: Was Mary "assumed into heaven? Catholic Dogma and Scripture
Catholic Encyclopedia ^ | various

Posted on 01/12/2013 9:45:29 AM PST by count-your-change

Although once considered a binding "probable opinion" by the Catholic church, in 1950 the belief that the virgin Mary war taken into heaven "body and soul" was declared dogma for Catholic believers.

As the Catholic Encyclopedia notes in agreement with the Catechism of the Catholic church:

(Today, the belief in the corporeal assumption of Mary is universal in the East and in the West; according to Benedict XIV (De Festis B.V.M., I, viii, 18) it is a probable opinion, which to deny were impious and blasphemous.)

(Note: By promulgating the Bull Munificentissimus Deus, 1 November, 1950, Pope Pius XII declared infallibly that the Assumption of the Blessed Virgin Mary was a dogma of the Catholic Faith)

But what is the evidence claimed in support of this belief that Mary was taken "body and soul" into heaven?

In summation the catholic Encyclopeia offers:

(St. John of Damascus (P.G., I, 96) thus formulates the tradition of the Church of Jerusalem: St. Juvenal, Bishop of Jerusalem, at the Council of Chalcedon (451), made known to the Emperor Marcian and Pulcheria, who wished to possess the body of the Mother of God, that Mary died in the presence of all the Apostles, but that her tomb, when opened, upon the request of St. Thomas, was found empty; wherefrom the Apostles concluded that the body was taken up to heaven)

(Excerpt) Read more at newadvent.org Catholic Encyclopedia ...


TOPICS: Theology
KEYWORDS: heaven; mary
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-5051-100101-117 next last
But what do the God inspired Scriptures say? Paul calls Christ the "first fruits" of the resurrection (1 Cor 15:23) and states the "flesh and blood cannot inherit God's kingdom".

Which shall we believe? A tradition formulated centuries after Mary's death or the scriptures inspired by God?

1 posted on 01/12/2013 9:45:37 AM PST by count-your-change
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: count-your-change

Actually, I can’t get too far into this, but the tradition that Mary disappeared from her tomb and was assumed into Heaven goes back to very early days. In the very early middle ages, some of the Irish and British missionaries went to the Holy Land to visit the place of her tomb.

Jesus preceded Mary, of course, because according to the bible he died and ascended into heaven well before she did.

The Hebrew Bible tells us that Elijah was assumed bodily into Heaven, and when Jesus meets with him and Moses on the mountain, the presumption is that both of them were.

They were saved by the grace of Jesus extended back in time, according to traditional interpretation.

Mary was conceived without sin, as a suitable Mother to the Christ, and therefore did not suffer from the effects of Original Sin, which brought death into the world. That was the belief of early Protestants as well as Catholics. Luther and Milton, to mention two.


2 posted on 01/12/2013 9:57:37 AM PST by Cicero (Marcus Tullius)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: count-your-change

Your link doesn’t work.


3 posted on 01/12/2013 10:00:01 AM PST by Wyrd bi ful ard (Gone Galt, 11/07/12)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Wyrd bið ful aræd

Sorry, simply google catholic encyclopedia to find subject Mary.


4 posted on 01/12/2013 10:03:49 AM PST by count-your-change (you don't have to be brilliant, not being stupid is enough)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: count-your-change

Is being assumed into heaven with your body and soul, the same thing as coming back to life? Does the body continue to live?


5 posted on 01/12/2013 10:21:18 AM PST by stuartcr ("I upraded my moral compass to a GPS, to keep up with the times.")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Cicero

The purest of all God’s creation in Heaven and on Earth, must surely be assumed into eternity to be with her son and the Son of God incorrupt from bodily decay. She alone was conceived without Original Sin. To argue differently, wold be deny the basic predicate.


6 posted on 01/12/2013 10:21:18 AM PST by Steelfish (ui)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: Cicero
Jesus plainly calls Moses’ and Elijah's appearance a “vision”.

This vision was made in connection with the announcement of God's approval of His Son as a faith building event for these disciples.

As for Elijah the use of the term heaven or heavens must be understood in the light of what Paul said seeing that Elijah was most certainly flesh and blood and the fact that Christ had not yet offered his sacrifice on the altar in heaven.

7 posted on 01/12/2013 10:22:49 AM PST by count-your-change (you don't have to be brilliant, not being stupid is enough)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: stuartcr

On that question you would have to ask those who advance this teaching of “assumption”.


8 posted on 01/12/2013 10:25:13 AM PST by count-your-change (you don't have to be brilliant, not being stupid is enough)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: count-your-change
My understanding of Mary's assumption into heaven is that since Mary was born without original sin (the Virgin Birth may not really mean that Mary was a virgin per se but that she was 'pure' in the sense that she was born without original sin in order to be a worthy vessel for carrying the Christ Child--and that the Aramaic word for 'pure' was misinterpreted as 'virgin').

If in fact she was born without original sin as was Jesus it does make sense that she was not subject to death which was one of the punishments for eating the forbidden fruit (Thanks alot Adam and Eve!).

BTW Joseph did die a human death and his soul went to Purgatory to await the death of Christ who would reopen the gates of heaven. Fanciful myth or lovely spiritual narrative--you decide.

The patron saint of my Catholic grammar school was Joseph and we were told that when Jesus opened up heaven He went to purgatory and walked past all the kings, queens, and rich merchants into a shadowy corner and lifted up Joseph, his stepdad, and brought him out first so that he could be the first to enter the Kingdom of Heaven. Again--fanciful myth or lovely spiritual story--you decide. Personally I like the lovely spiritual story with its overtones of mystical calm, love and human warmth. It also taught us kids the value of humility and quiet grace and that these qualities would be rewarded.

9 posted on 01/12/2013 10:27:48 AM PST by foreshadowed at waco
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: count-your-change
My understanding of Mary's assumption into heaven is that since Mary was born without original sin (the Virgin Birth may not really mean that Mary was a virgin per se but that she was 'pure' in the sense that she was born without original sin in order to be a worthy vessel for carrying the Christ Child--and that the Aramaic word for 'pure' was misinterpreted as 'virgin').

If in fact she was born without original sin as was Jesus it does make sense that she was not subject to death which was one of the punishments for eating the forbidden fruit (Thanks alot Adam and Eve!).

BTW Joseph did die a human death and his soul went to Purgatory to await the death of Christ who would reopen the gates of heaven. Fanciful myth or lovely spiritual narrative--you decide.

The patron saint of my Catholic grammar school was Joseph and we were told that when Jesus opened up heaven He went to purgatory and walked past all the kings, queens, and rich merchants into a shadowy corner and lifted up Joseph, his stepdad, and brought him out first so that he could be the first to enter the Kingdom of Heaven. Again--fanciful myth or lovely spiritual story--you decide. Personally I like the lovely spiritual story with its overtones of mystical calm, love and human warmth. It also taught us kids the value of humility and quiet grace and that these qualities would be rewarded.

10 posted on 01/12/2013 10:27:48 AM PST by foreshadowed at waco
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: count-your-change

I was thinking this thread would be where someone like that would be, so I asked.


11 posted on 01/12/2013 10:30:38 AM PST by stuartcr ("I upraded my moral compass to a GPS, to keep up with the times.")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]

To: foreshadowed at waco

Jesus prayed that God would make his followers holy or sanctified by means of the truth, truth being God’s word.(John 17:17-19)So myth and such must be rejected in favor of God’s sanctifying Word.


12 posted on 01/12/2013 10:37:40 AM PST by count-your-change (you don't have to be brilliant, not being stupid is enough)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 10 | View Replies]

To: count-your-change
For clarification: Do you believe that Jesus was resurrected bodily, and ascended into heaven?

And do you believe in the resurrection of the body, including yourself and all those who are saved by Christ?

13 posted on 01/12/2013 10:46:59 AM PST by Mrs. Don-o (Point of clarification.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 12 | View Replies]

To: count-your-change
Paul calls Christ the "first fruits" of the resurrection (1 Cor 15:23)

How is that Scripture relevant? The Assumption happened long after the Resurrection ... decades most likely.

and states the "flesh and blood cannot inherit God's kingdom".

Millions of Christians think they're going to be bodily assumed into heaven at some point in the near future in an event they call the "Rapture". A fortiori, is it more reasonable to believe that God raptured one woman who played a unique role in salvation history, or millions who are "special" merely by being alive at some date in the future?

14 posted on 01/12/2013 10:47:06 AM PST by Campion ("Social justice" begins in the womb)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: count-your-change
Paul calls Christ the "first fruits" of the resurrection (1 Cor 15:23)

How is that Scripture relevant? The Assumption happened long after the Resurrection ... decades most likely.

and states the "flesh and blood cannot inherit God's kingdom".

Millions of Christians think they're going to be bodily assumed into heaven at some point in the near future in an event they call the "Rapture". A fortiori, is it more reasonable to believe that God raptured one woman who played a unique role in salvation history, or millions who are "special" merely by being alive at some date in the future?

15 posted on 01/12/2013 10:47:06 AM PST by Campion ("Social justice" begins in the womb)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: count-your-change

Heaven is not a place. Living bodies don’t “go” to Heaven.


16 posted on 01/12/2013 10:53:01 AM PST by I want the USA back
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Campion
“How is that Scripture [1 Cor. 15:23] relevant?”

It's relevant in that it indicates no Moses, Elijah, Enoch, etc. could have gone before Christ and if you noted the rest of that verse, Paul said each in his turn, that next it would be those who belong to Christ during Christ's presence.

Millions can believe as they wish but Jesus prayed that his followers would made holy or sanctified by means of the truth of God's word so Christians must seek that truth no matter who believes what or how many.

Remember Jesus said the broad road with many on it was the road to destruction.

17 posted on 01/12/2013 10:59:21 AM PST by count-your-change (you don't have to be brilliant, not being stupid is enough)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 15 | View Replies]

To: Mrs. Don-o

No, i don’t believe in a resurrection of the fleshly body into heaven.

“The last Adam (Christ) became a life giving spirit” (1 Cor. 15:45)


18 posted on 01/12/2013 11:08:37 AM PST by count-your-change (you don't have to be brilliant, not being stupid is enough)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 13 | View Replies]

To: I want the USA back

That’s one view but is it supported by the Scriptures? If so where?


19 posted on 01/12/2013 11:11:27 AM PST by count-your-change (you don't have to be brilliant, not being stupid is enough)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 16 | View Replies]

To: Joe 6-pack

ping


20 posted on 01/12/2013 11:12:08 AM PST by definitelynotaliberal
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 9 | View Replies]

To: count-your-change
Pope's Homily on Solemnity of the Assumption
Essays for Lent: The Assumption
[CATHOLIC/ORTHODOX CAUCUS] 4th Glorious Mystery: The Assumption (Patristic Rosary)
[CATHOLIC CAUCUS]Processions in Spain for the Assumption and the Mystery of Elche (graphics heavy)
[ORTHODOX/CATHOLIC CAUCUS] Indian Church’s Assumption Day Parade Makes Its Colorful Annual...
[CATHOLIC CAUCUS] Our Lady and Dogmas: Pondering the Assumption (Launch of Rosary Crusade)
[CATHOLIC/ORTHODOX CAUCUS]The Assumption of Our Blessed Lady

[CATHOLIC CAUCUS] The Assumption of Mary [from Hallowed Ground}
[CATHOLIC CAUCUS] Our Blessed Lady's Assumption
CATHOLIC/ORTHODOX CAUCUS] The Feast of the Assumption Is Our Feast Too
[CATHOLIC/ORTHODOX CAUCUS] Where was Mary assumed to?
[CATHOLIC/ORTHODOX CAUCUS] Assumpta est Maria in cælum!
Why do we believe in the Assumption? (Catholic Caucus)
On Mary, Mother of Priests (Assumption)
The Assumption/Dormition: Mystery of Mary, Meaning of Life
From Eden to Eternity: A Homily on the Solemnity of the Assumption of the Blessed Virgin Mary
The Dormition of our Most Holy Lady the Theotokos and Ever Virgin Mary

Solemnity of the Assumption of the Blessed Virgin Mary: 15 August [Catholic/Orthodox Caucus]
The Assumption and the World by Bishop Fulton J. Sheen
The Early Church Fathers on the Assumption [Catholic/Orthodox Caucus]
THE ASSUMPTION OF MARY: A BELIEF SINCE APOSTOLIC TIMES [Ecumenical]
August 15, Feast of the Assumption - Did Mary's Assumption Really Occur? [Ecumenical]
Assumption Sermon of Rev James Bartoloma 8/16/07 (on Summorum Pontificum)
Angelus - Feast of the Assumption of the Blessed Virgin Mary (2007)
In Charm City, 100K Have Seen the Light
The Assumption of Our Lady
Solemnity of the Assumption

Solemnity of the Assumption
Mary’s Assumption is hope for today’s society, says Pope
Meditations for this Feast Day of the Assumption of the Blessed Virgin Mary
HOMILIES PREACHED BY FATHER ALTIER ON THE FEAST OF THE ASSUMPTION
Why Catholics Believe in the Assumption of Mary
St. John Damascene: Homily 3 on the Assumption/Dormition
St. John Damascene: Homily II on the Assumption/Dormition
St. John Damascene: Homily I on the Assumption/Dormition
Catholic Caucus: The Assumption of Mary - Marcellino D'Ambrosio, PhD
Today's the Feast of the Assumption of Mary into Heaven

Feast of the Assumption of the Blessed Virgin Mary, August 15th.
Maronite Catholic: Qolo (Hymn) of the Assumption of the Blessed Virgin Mary
St. Gregory Palamas: On the Dormition of Our Supremely Pure Lady Theotokos and Ever-Virgin Mary
Maronite Catholic: Qolo (Hymn) of the Assumption of the Blessed Virgin Mary
Catholic Caucus: A NOVENA OF FASTING AND PRAYERS/ASSUMPTION/DORMITION
St. Gregory Palamas: On the Dormition of Our Supremely Pure Lady Theotokos and Ever-Virgin Mary
The Fourth Glorious Mystery
Archbishop Sheen Today! -- The glorious assumption
The Assumption Of The Blessed Virgin Mary Reflections For The Feast 2003
A Homily on the Dormition of Our Supremely Pure Lady Theotokos and Ever-Virgin Mary
The Assumption Of Mary

21 posted on 01/12/2013 11:12:33 AM PST by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: count-your-change

If Elijah and Enoch were assumed into heaven, why can’t the Blessed Virgin Mary be assumed into heaven.

Where are the bodies of Elijah, Enoch and the Blessed Virgin Mary?


22 posted on 01/12/2013 11:13:48 AM PST by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: count-your-change
I see: no resurrection of the body for Christ, or us, or anyone? That's consistent.

This gives me an insight into your point of view.

What about what was foretold in Isaiah 26:19?
But your dead will live, Lord; their bodies will rise— let those who dwell in the dust wake up and shout for joy— your dew is like the dew of the morning; the earth will give birth to her dead.

What about Romans 8:11?
If the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, he who raised Christ Jesus from the dead will give life to your mortal bodies also through his Spirit who dwells in you.

And that business with Thomas putting his fingers into His wounds and his hand into His side? What was that about?

23 posted on 01/12/2013 11:25:36 AM PST by Mrs. Don-o (Point of clarification.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 18 | View Replies]

To: Mrs. Don-o
beginning with the last first:

“And that business with Thomas putting his fingers into His wounds and his hand into His side? What was that about?”

How best to prove to Thomas Jesus was alive? Angels had the ability to produce a body that could eat, be grappled with, able to hold hands with someone, be lusted after!, so why not Jesus having that same ability? Even if that body did look the same during one of his appearances.

Romans 8:11 says nothing about going to heaven or fleshly bodies going into heaven, note vs. 10 and the sense in which the body is dead and given life.
Paul says that if God could raise Christ he could raise those Corinthians from being dead in their sins. (vs 11).

“What about what was foretold in Isaiah 26:19?”

A resurrection is foretold but there is no hint of any heavenly resurrection being spoken of, a privilege not open before Christ, least of all an assumption of fleshly bodies into heaven.
In fact Isa. 25:8 was referenced by Paul (1 Cor. 15:54) and applied to the resurrection to spirit bodies and with that, immortality. That was not available before Christ so Isa. 26:19 would apply to those who would be subjects of God's Kingdom, not it's rulers.

24 posted on 01/12/2013 12:05:11 PM PST by count-your-change (you don't have to be brilliant, not being stupid is enough)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 23 | View Replies]

To: count-your-change; Salvation
Thank you. I can now see that you do not believe in the bodily resurrection and ascencion of Jesus Christ, but only the appearance of a body that looked like Jesus.

It certainly makes sense that if Jesus's body was not raised from the dead, and He did not in fact ascend into heaven, neither do we have any basis for that hope.

This interpretation of yours, that it was not really His body, definitively rules out the Assumption of Mary and all of our bodily resurrections. On your account, this is impossible. You're consistent here.

The Muslims are even more consistent, in that the majority of them believe that God gave someone Jesus' appearance, causing everyone to believe that Jesus was crucified. Another (minority Islamic) explanation is that Jesus was nailed to a cross, but as his body is immortal he did not die of crucifixion, it only appeared to.

They said (in boast), "We killed Christ Jesus the son of Mary, the Messenger of Allah";- but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, for of a surety they killed him not:- Nay, Allah raised him up unto Himself; and Allah is Exalted in Power, Wise.
—Qur'an, sura 4 (An-Nisa) ayat 157-158

They are consistent in their view that God provided a "seeming" body for Jesus, a kind of costume or illusion, and not that He is the Incarnate God who in the actual flesh died, rose and ascended.

25 posted on 01/12/2013 12:25:07 PM PST by Mrs. Don-o (Point of clarification.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 24 | View Replies]

To: Salvation

Gen. 3:19, “For dust you are and to dust you will return”.

They await in the memorial tombs. (John 5:28, 29)just like David, (Act 2:34)


26 posted on 01/12/2013 12:30:19 PM PST by count-your-change (you don't have to be brilliant, not being stupid is enough)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 22 | View Replies]

To: Mrs. Don-o

“Thank you. I can now see that you do not believe in the bodily resurrection and ascencion of Jesus Christ, but only the appearance of a body that looked like Jesus.”

Can I then say from your words you believe murder is o.k.?


27 posted on 01/12/2013 12:36:49 PM PST by count-your-change (you don't have to be brilliant, not being stupid is enough)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 25 | View Replies]

To: count-your-change

No.


28 posted on 01/12/2013 12:41:13 PM PST by Mrs. Don-o (Point of clarification.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 27 | View Replies]

To: Steelfish

Is Mary wearing clothes in Heaven or were they left behind when she mas assumed into eternity? Does she ever get a new outfit?


29 posted on 01/12/2013 12:43:03 PM PST by Citizen Tom Paine (An old sailor sends)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: Mrs. Don-o
Why not? It's no more ridiculous then what you said. I don't like words being put into my mouth unless they're mine and I can do that for myself.
30 posted on 01/12/2013 12:47:12 PM PST by count-your-change (you don't have to be brilliant, not being stupid is enough)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 28 | View Replies]

To: count-your-change

I don’t quite understand where your question is coming from. I am a Catholic. I believe in the resurrection of the body.


31 posted on 01/12/2013 12:50:08 PM PST by Mrs. Don-o (Point of clarification.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 27 | View Replies]

To: count-your-change

Jesus would do anything for this mother. Why is that so hard to believe?


32 posted on 01/12/2013 12:52:23 PM PST by ex-snook (God is Love)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 12 | View Replies]

To: Mrs. Don-o
“.....but only the appearance of a body that looked like Jesus.”

And then Muslims? Not a very subtle insult, really, and hence an equally ridiculous statement pulled at random from the air.

33 posted on 01/12/2013 1:15:04 PM PST by count-your-change (you don't have to be brilliant, not being stupid is enough)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 31 | View Replies]

To: ex-snook; count-your-change
Jesus would do anything for this mother.

No, He would not make His Father a liar for her sake. The whole thing is fraught with error. For instance, if Mary was born without original sin, how can that be, when Adam's sin is passed down through the father... With Yeshua, this point is perfectly explained: His father was not of Adam. With Mary, we know her father was of Adam.

And the curse of original sin included aging and death, yet the same church tradition you all rely upon (infallibly, btw, according to your leaders) claims that she grew old and died - If she were without the original curse, she would not grow old, and she would not die. What nifty bit of magic explains that away?

34 posted on 01/12/2013 1:17:27 PM PST by roamer_1 (Globalism is just socialism in a business suit.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 32 | View Replies]

To: ex-snook

Not a question of what he WOULD do but what he DID do. Why are the Scriptures so hard to believe?


35 posted on 01/12/2013 1:18:07 PM PST by count-your-change (you don't have to be brilliant, not being stupid is enough)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 32 | View Replies]

To: count-your-change

???


36 posted on 01/12/2013 1:41:35 PM PST by stuartcr ("I upraded my moral compass to a GPS, to keep up with the times.")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 27 | View Replies]

To: stuartcr

????


37 posted on 01/12/2013 1:45:55 PM PST by count-your-change (you don't have to be brilliant, not being stupid is enough)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 36 | View Replies]

To: count-your-change; Mrs. Don-o

But where are those tombs?

Our bodies do die when we die. But our souls are alive and either go to heaven, hell or Purgatory.

At the last judgment, our bodies will be re-united with our souls.

Except for those who were bodily assumed into heaven, namely, Jesus, the Blessed Virgin Mary and from the Old Testament, Elijah and Enoch.


38 posted on 01/12/2013 1:45:55 PM PST by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 26 | View Replies]

To: count-your-change

What could possibly make you ask about murder from what she said?


39 posted on 01/12/2013 1:51:14 PM PST by stuartcr ("I upraded my moral compass to a GPS, to keep up with the times.")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 37 | View Replies]

To: Salvation
Evidently the term “tombs” is used in a general sense like we use the term “graves” in saying, the dead are their graves.

I understand the teaching but cannot any Scriptural reason for accepting such as true and I note you provided none.

40 posted on 01/12/2013 1:53:50 PM PST by count-your-change (you don't have to be brilliant, not being stupid is enough)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 38 | View Replies]

To: stuartcr
Since the comment was directed to dono and not to you and since I well explained it in my reply I feel no need to go over it again for you if you do not understand a retort or a rhetorical question.
41 posted on 01/12/2013 2:00:08 PM PST by count-your-change (you don't have to be brilliant, not being stupid is enough)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 39 | View Replies]

To: roamer_1
For instance, if Mary was born without original sin, how can that be, when Adam's sin is passed down through the father...

Scripture says nothing at all about "Adam's sin" being passed down through the father. Catholics understand original sin principally as the absence of God's indwelling divine life anyway, and you don't pass down an absence -- you fail to pass down the presence to whose lack the absence corresponds.

As to your question about aging and death, freedom from those evils were lost by Adam's sin, and Mary was not given them back. In that sense, she was less blessed than Eve originally was! The loss of those freedoms (called "preternatural gifts" by theologians) isn't the essence original sin, however.

42 posted on 01/12/2013 2:32:41 PM PST by Campion ("Social justice" begins in the womb)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 34 | View Replies]

To: count-your-change
You can find many answers at Adoration, time spent with Our Lord directly. http://www.therealpresence.org/chap_fr.htm
43 posted on 01/12/2013 2:43:23 PM PST by mlizzy (If people spent an hour a week in Eucharistic adoration, abortion would be ended. --Mother Teresa)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: mlizzy

Thank you for the info.


44 posted on 01/12/2013 3:11:28 PM PST by count-your-change (you don't have to be brilliant, not being stupid is enough)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 43 | View Replies]

To: count-your-change

Now I really don’t understand. You do hold that Jesus did not rise from the dead, and that his bodily arrivals and departures after the alleged resurrection were just appearances, right? Or have I misunderstood your position?


45 posted on 01/12/2013 3:29:45 PM PST by Mrs. Don-o (Point of clarification.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 33 | View Replies]

To: roamer_1
I know of no Catholic doctrine that Mary "grew old and died," nor that she didn't. In defining the dogma of the Assumption, Pius XII avoided using the term "resurrection" and did not take a position on the question of the Blessed Virgin's death. Munificentissimus Deus limits itself to affirming the elevation of Mary's body to heavenly glory "at the end of her earthly life." It intentionally doesn't specify whether she died, or didn't die, because we don't know.
46 posted on 01/12/2013 3:36:37 PM PST by Mrs. Don-o (Point of clarification.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 34 | View Replies]

To: stuartcr

Thanks, stuartcr. I was scratching my head over that one, myself!


47 posted on 01/12/2013 3:38:41 PM PST by Mrs. Don-o (Point of clarification.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 39 | View Replies]

To: Citizen Tom Paine

These are questions unworthy of a response.


48 posted on 01/12/2013 3:58:41 PM PST by Steelfish (ui)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 29 | View Replies]

To: Mrs. Don-o
Here is your comment and my response. Please explain or show me where I said or indicted that I believed that Jesus “...did not rise from the dead,”

“And that business with Thomas putting his fingers into His wounds and his hand into His side? What was that about?”

How best to prove to Thomas Jesus was alive? Angels had the ability to produce a body that could eat, be grappled with, able to hold hands with someone, be lusted after!, so why not Jesus having that same ability? Even if that body did look the same during one of his appearances.

Please explain where in my response you find any statement about “the alleged resurrection”. Alleged is your word, not mine.

Please explain or show where I said what the disciples saw were “just appearances” and not an actual body.

“Or have I misunderstood your position?”

No, I think in reality you understand it but for some reason have misstated it, for what reason I have no idea. What I said is really quite clear and stated in normal English usage.

49 posted on 01/12/2013 4:49:03 PM PST by count-your-change (you don't have to be brilliant, not being stupid is enough)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 45 | View Replies]

To: count-your-change

ok


50 posted on 01/12/2013 5:15:37 PM PST by stuartcr ("I upraded my moral compass to a GPS, to keep up with the times.")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 41 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-5051-100101-117 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson