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1 posted on 01/13/2013 9:28:16 PM PST by madison10
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To: madison10

I tend to agree with your view. However, there are many others who have all sorts of positions on the timeline of Revelation.

I think the best thing to do in regard to the Book of Revelation is to not get too “tied” to a particular view because there are several approaches to its meaning - I just feel like God’s going to work it all out His way, so it’s just best to live today for Him and be faithful to what He has already plainly taught us in Scripture.

I wish the “pre-trib” people were correct, but I, like you, tend to believe that we will go through some major persecution. You can see it coming. God didn’t spare the first century Christians from facing terrible times, why should we be any different?


2 posted on 01/13/2013 9:36:47 PM PST by rusty schucklefurd
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To: madison10

I commend you for your perceptiveness.

The proof-texts offered for “the Rapture” have always been understood by the Church from Apostolic times onward as describing the experience of those Christians who will still alive on earth at the time of Christ’s Second and Glorious Advent and the General Resurrection. The sentimental notion that the glory of the Church in the Last Days will not be the same as its glory from its founding — martyrdom for Christ’s sake — because God will “Rapture” Christians before the great tribulation foretold in St. John’s Apocalypse is an heretical innovation unknown until the mid 19th century.


3 posted on 01/13/2013 9:38:28 PM PST by The_Reader_David (And when they behead your own people in the wars which are to come, then you will know...)
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To: madison10

The Mystery of Iniquity exposes and extinguishes the strong delusion that has become a false hope of the modern Church – the snare that has been set by Satan through many years of working behind the scenes. What began as gentle misleading has, through the years, taken a winding path to the valley of full deception. The Mystery of Iniquity is the warning of Yahshua (Jesus), Shaul (Paul), and Yochannan (John) concerning the absolute prerequisites to the return of the Messiah to gather the saints at the end of the age. That warning is not futuristic prophesy as it was in their day, but reiterated in the context of the accomplished deception of the Church in our modern times.

4 posted on 01/13/2013 9:47:23 PM PST by Errant
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To: madison10

I love it when people actually read the Bible and come up with a true interpretation.

I was taught the pretrib rapture theory for years, but it never worked when you compared it to scripture. Read some of the greatest writers defending it and it made no sense.

Was a preacher for many years and finally left the denomination ‘cuz they insisted that I should teach something that I could not believe.

That was too much for me. Even debated my mentor (a great man of God, and we still remained friends) But I was shunned. Sometimes you have to stand up for what you believe in, even though it may cost you.

Thanks for the post and God Bless You!

bobo


5 posted on 01/13/2013 9:49:28 PM PST by bobo1 (the KDE plasma desktop is awesome!)
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To: madison10
The rapture of the faithful in contrast to the Revelation of Jesus at His coming*

Christ comes for His own 1Th 4:13-18;
Christ returns with His own Rev 19:14

Believers taken to Father's House Joh 14:3
Believers come with Jesus to Earth Mat 24:30

He is seen only by believers 1Co 15:52
Every eye will see Him Mat 24:30

Earth not judged
Earth judged Rev 20:4-5

A Mystery - 1 Co 15:51
Foretold in OT Zech 12:10

Christians taken first 1Th 4:13-18 3 Mat 13:28-30
Wicked are taken first Mat 25:1-13; Rev 3:8-10; Rev 4:1

He comes to present the Church to Himself 2 Co 11:2
He comes with His Church for judgement and to set up his Kingdom Rev 19:6-9, Zec 14:3-4; Jud 1:14-15; Rev 19:11-21

Casts Satan out of heaven to earth Rev 12
Binds Satan for a thousand years Rev 20

Occurs in the twinkling of an eye 1Co 15:52
Comes to earth to do battle at specific locations Isa 63:1-3, Rev 16:16, Zec 12:9-10

Jesus descends with a shout. 1Th 4:16 8
No shout mentioned Rev 19:11-21

Jesus comes as a thief in the night 1Th 24:43
Jesus comes at the end of 7 years of tribulation Dan 9:24-27, 12:11-12; Rev 11:2, 12:6,14, 13:5

6 posted on 01/13/2013 9:51:29 PM PST by ExGeeEye (I'll give y'all 90 days for the wounds to heal; then we start on 2014. Carpe GOP!)
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To: madison10

I too hope the pre- trib preachers are right. The only real reason I think there will be a rapture of the Saints before the tribulation is because during the tribulation God is dealing with Israel. He isn’t focusing on we Saints .
All attention will be on Jerusalem and the Jewish people. This is my hope in a rapture of the saints. Also because this time will be worse than any since the world began, and he loves us so I don’t think we will suffer. Those who are saved after the rapture, both Jew and gentile, will suffer horribly and those are the ones he is talking about. There will be 144,000 from the 12 tribes of Israel and I don’t know how many Gentiles. Anyway this is how I see it but no one knows for sure what is the right way of events. I trust Him and He will see me through. I think this is one good part of being old, we aren’t far from heaven what ever happens.


7 posted on 01/13/2013 9:52:09 PM PST by Ramonne
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To: madison10
"They tell how you...wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead—Jesus, who rescues us from the coming wrath." 1 Thessalonians 1:10
9 posted on 01/13/2013 9:54:11 PM PST by ExGeeEye (I'll give y'all 90 days for the wounds to heal; then we start on 2014. Carpe GOP!)
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To: madison10

There will be those who believe during the Tribulation, receiving the Word from the Two Witnesses (believed to be Enoch and Elijah and/or the 144K missionaries.. They will refuse to take the Mark, be persecuted, and killed.


11 posted on 01/13/2013 9:56:43 PM PST by ExGeeEye (I'll give y'all 90 days for the wounds to heal; then we start on 2014. Carpe GOP!)
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To: madison10

It’s very difficult to sway individuals regarding the matter of “the rapture” and the timing of it. I’ve felt for some time, based upon my own reading, that Christians will experience tribulation and persecution to some extent. Others believe strongly that they’ll be removed before this occurs.

I hope they’re right, but my heart and my eyes tell me otherwise.

What is also clear to me, however, is that the Church will not be present throughout. So, there is a “rapture.”

Christians can and do disagree upon this in good faith. The vehemence with which the disagreements are argued can be disturbing, though.


14 posted on 01/13/2013 10:06:18 PM PST by RegulatorCountry
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To: madison10

“If the saints are already “raptured” then why is their patient endurance required? Answer: They are not “raptured,” they are still on the earth dealing with the antichrist.”

There will be saints after the rapture, those who turn to Christ later, those who were not taken the first time.

Two comings of Christ that are different in nature are described in the Bible. First coming:

1 Thess. 4:13-18 -
Meeting the church in the air.

1 Corinthians 15:52 -
No signs to herald Christ’s coming for his Church. This will come in the twinkling of an eye.

Second Coming:
Zechariah 14:4 - No meeting in the air, Jesus returns to earth on the Mount of Olives

Revelation 1:7
“every eye shall see him”
Unlike the rapture, Jesus will be seen by all.

Finally, the gospels say Jesus Christ returns and conquers the earth where people will be gathered from the four corners of the earth, separating the sheep from the goats. If this is the same event as the rapture there would be no sheep left since they’ve already been taken to the air.


15 posted on 01/13/2013 10:06:42 PM PST by ScottfromNJ
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To: madison10
Who is the anti-Christ... or more correctly said the instead of Christ? Mark 13:23 Christ states ...”But take ye heed: behold, I have foretold you all things.”

This would have been said before any jot or tittle of the so called New Testament ever got placed upon plant or animal products. After Christ gives this ‘warning’ in Mark 13, Christ then proceeds to quote one of the holy prophets as Peter calls them...

Mark 13:24 But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light,

25 And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in the heaven shall be shaken.

26 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.

Christ is returning to this earth to clean house. Now why would His church/bride be going some place where Christ is not?

Christ said for the elect’s sake time would be shortened. Obviously Christ was aware of Daniel's prophecy, and all of what is foretold would happen will happen but in quick time. As is noted in Revelation 12:12 “........... Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. WOE to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.”

16 posted on 01/13/2013 10:18:13 PM PST by Just mythoughts
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To: madison10

1. In Revelation after John is carried to Heaven to observe there is no more mention of the Church on Earth. John being carried up to Heaven represents the rapture. During all the things that are going on on Earth mentioned in Revelation, none included any mention of the Church.
2. Yes there will be saints on Earth during the Tribulation because many people will be saved during that tribulation.


27 posted on 01/14/2013 12:47:31 AM PST by Ecliptic (.)
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To: madison10

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JrkRSaJJEJ8

Esplains it all


29 posted on 01/14/2013 1:12:17 AM PST by onona (KCCO, and mind the gap)
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To: madison10

It is the tribulation that generates the rapture of the Saints. The discomfort and feeling of pure hell is a strong motivator to focus on God for your strength.

We are in that period right now.

Matthew 24: 23 Then if anyone says to you, ‘Look! Here is the Messiah!’ or ‘There he is!’—do not believe it. 24 For false messiahs and false prophets will appear and produce great signs and omens, to lead astray, if possible, even the elect. 25 Take note, I have told you beforehand. 26 So, if they say to you, ‘Look! He is in the wilderness,’ do not go out. If they say, ‘Look! He is in the inner rooms,’ do not believe it. 27 For as the lightning comes from the east and flashes as far as the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man.

If you understand verse 27, you will understand the rapture and also understand that Jesus is already here. Being “raised up” can also mean “grown up” as in the seeds planted in the wheat field when they are ready for harvest.(Matthew 13) or waking up, since we have been asleep.

This is so simple, I wish everyone could experience it. Just follow the focus of your prayers and you will see.

We are in very interesting times.


32 posted on 01/14/2013 1:32:37 AM PST by tired&retired
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To: madison10
WhyGod's Purpose for the Tribulation excludes the Church

33 posted on 01/14/2013 1:43:53 AM PST by GiovannaNicoletta (In the last days, mockers will come with their mocking... (2 Peter 3:3))
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To: madison10

“Rapture IS the Coming of the Lord”

Just as Jesus stated after going through the dark night of the soul, “My Father and I are One.”

And I am in My Father and My Father is in Me, and if you are also in Me then My Father that is in Me is also in you. (Communion is merely us recognizing that Christ is in us.)

The tribulation is to the Saints what the dark night of the soul was to Jesus. It is a period of letting go of our anchors (or ballast) in order that our consciousness can “raise up.” When we raise up, we wake up and see that Jesus is already here. In the east and west at the same time as Jesus exists within us, and we also exist in Him. The experience of tribulation causes us to climb higher on the ladder to a level where we can “see.”

One of the attributes of the soul going through this experience is that your conscious awareness is no longer limited to the physical body and the five senses. That is what Paul was referring to when he spoke of “dying daily.” It is a dying of our attachment to our bodies.

When this happened to me, it really freaked me out as I became aware of the thoughts of people around me as their thoughts become physical tangible objects when perceived by my soul. It also became relatively easy to know the life history of a person around me as all the memories of their experiences are stored in their soul like billboards, available for all to see.

The “Tower of Babel” concept also applies to consciousness. And just as the Dutch atomic physicist Neils Bohr discovered with electrons lowering themselves to an inner orbital give off a photon, when Jesus’ consciousness lowers to us, we see it give off the light of the Holy Spirit. This is the reason that God is Light. Jesus just wants us to raise up to him.

Prayer is the tool to find, experience and see Jesus.


34 posted on 01/14/2013 1:53:48 AM PST by tired&retired
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To: madison10

The state of our souls is what’s important, not when we leave this planet.


37 posted on 01/14/2013 2:57:51 AM PST by skr (May God confound the enemy)
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To: madison10

You’re not reading anything wrong. That’s exactly what scripture teaches. The symbolism of the trumpets ties in with one of the holy days of the Christ, the Feast of Trumpets (Leviticus 23). Some Christians indeed go through the tribulation. There are indications however that others are protected by God on earth and aren’t affected much by it. Can’t think of the verses right now and am trying to get to work!


38 posted on 01/14/2013 3:08:39 AM PST by DouglasKC
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To: madison10

If it could be known for certain, it would have already been settled.
The key is to spiritually prepare yourself to go through it, persevering. If a rapture happens before the worst of it, it’s a bonus.

I always wondered how there could be a great falling away, as Christ spoke of. I wonder if it is those that, planning on being rescued, lose faith when this supposed per-trib rapture doesn’t happen, and they have not understood the need to persevere...

Prepare yourselves spiritually. Read Ephesians to remind yourselves what this battle really is, and read the history of the martyrs that died, often horrendously, persevering in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.

If Christ didn’t save those countless from the worst, then we should be looking at their examples and gird ourselves with the armor of God so that we can stand.


39 posted on 01/14/2013 3:09:02 AM PST by ImaGraftedBranch (...By reading this, you've collapsed my wave function. Thanks.)
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To: madison10

The perseverance encouraged is prior to the Rapture for those believers enduring worldly consequences of rejecting the mark of the beast. Later verses identify those believers who take the mark, also are sent to the Lake of Fire along with unbelievers.


41 posted on 01/14/2013 3:20:48 AM PST by Cvengr (Adversity in life and death is inevitable. Thru faith in Christ, stress is optional.)
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