Skip to comments.“A Lutheran Ordinariate? That’s a Bad Sign”
Posted on 01/22/2013 9:28:25 AM PST by marshmallow
The Secretary of the International Lutheran Federation has rejected the proposal presented again about a day or so ago by the Prefect of the former Holy Office
An ordinariate for Lutherans who wish to re-enter into communion with the Vatican, whilst preserving their traditions at least partially? The idea of extending the solution offered by Pope Benedict XVI to groups of traditionalist Anglicans to followers of Martin Luther was suggested for the first time by the President of the Pontifical Council for Christian Unity, Cardinal Kurt Koch.
But just as the proposal is being put forward again by the Prefect of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, Mgr. Gerhard Ludwig Müller, it is beginning to trigger heated protests and concerns among the Catholic Churchs ecumenical partners as happened with the Anglican Church.
The creation of an ordinariate intended for those groups of Anglicans that wish to join the Catholic Church but also maintain their own identity was not Romes idea; it originates in the Anglican Church, Koch said last 30 October. The Holy Father looked for a solution and found a wide-reaching one which took into account the Anglican Churchs ecclesial and liturgical traditions. If the Lutherans made a similar request - he went on to say - we will have to consider their situation carefully. But the initiative remains in the hands of the Lutherans.
The issue was recently addressed by Mgr. Müller. The German theologian chosen by Pope Benedict XVI to lead the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, recognised that the Lutheran world is different to the Anglican one because Anglicanism has always had an element that is closer to Catholicism. But this would not stop the Church from allowing Lutheran groups to convert to Catholicism, preserving legitimate traditions developed over the......
(Excerpt) Read more at vaticaninsider.lastampa.it ...
:: followers of Martin Luther ::
Yo! Papa Benny! You just “lost” all the real Lutherans with that rhetoric.
This Former Catholic turned Lutheran will never “go back” no matter how many articles like this are on FR.
I am keeping an eye out on these folks:
Bishop Roald Flemstad spoke at Forward in Faith along with some of the flying bishops who are now in the English Ordinariate.
That was the article’s author, not Benedict.
And not trying to be insulting here but just curious...why is that language so grating? Lutherans call themselves that. Anglicans never called themselves “Cranmerians” that I’m aware of.
>> Yo! Papa Benny! You just lost all the real Lutherans with that rhetoric <<
Referring to Lutherans as "followers of Martin Luther" is inappropriate rhetoric? What would you suggest the Pope refer to them as? Should he also avoid referring to members of the Ayn Rand society as "followers of Ayn Rand"?
:: followers of Martin Luther ::
Roman Catholicism, the Democrat Party of Christianity.
Keep your eye on this group too: http://anglolutherancatholic.org/ Their Archbishop Emeritus, Irl Gladfelter, has stepped down (health reasons I believe) and is trying to be recieved into the Catholic Church on his own.
So, would a Roman Catholic be insulted if they were termed as a “follower” of Il Papa; AKA a “papist”? I would say that, learning from the past, yes, in the extreme and enough to torture, beat and behead (The Spanish Inquisition).
(The Randian reference is non-sequitor when speaking of the church militant.)
Just a bad way to present a message regarding Faith and salvation.
He who believes and is baptized shall be saved. - Mark 16:16
When did the Pope use “that rhetoric”?
That argument can only be categorized as “Chicago-style”.
Do you really believe that Cd. Koch didn’t get his rhetoric approved by the Vatican?
You might even answer reasonable questions:
What, exactly, does "Lutheran" mean? What distinction are the "Lutheran Church Missouri Synod", "Evangelical Lutheran Church in America", "Wisconsin Evangelical Lutheran Synod" and similarly named bodies making when they label themselves "Lutheran"?
I note, by contrast, than no body or organization calls itself "papist".
and we’ll throw in a 30% discount on Indulgences to sweeten the deal...
Your suggestion will be taken under consideration. Please don’t be offended if I reject it out-of-hand.
I’ve been called worse. :)
It informs me as to your worth, and to the worth of your particular religious sect, whatever it may be.
Do you really believe that Cd. Koch didnt get his rhetoric approved by the Vatican?
Putting aside the fact that Cardinals do not get their words "pre-approved" by "the Vatican", can you tell me when Cardinal Koch used the rhetoric you're complaining of?
Searching German sites, he is quoted as referring to the Lutherans as "Lutherans", "the Lutheran tradition", "Lutheran communities", etc. and not as "followers of Martin Luther."
This is of course not a blanket statement, there are many good Catholic lay people and Priests, but the issues I have listed are real and systematic within the Church.
Not to mention virtually all positions of the Church with the exception of Abortion and Birth Control are IDENTICAL to those of the Democrat Party (http://usccb.org).
Luther originally set to reform the Catholic Church serving his 95 thesis on the door at the Church in Whittenburg. At that time the church was apostate among other things selling indulgences and claiming that this would purchase forgiveness of sin without repentance and subsequently salvation, at that time the pope excommunicated Luther, and at the diet of Worms Luther was given the opportunity to rescind his teachings, but stood on the Word of God and refused claiming the Word of God was inerrant and not subject to the papal interpretation. He further denied the diety of the pope. Upon excommunication, the Protestant movement was born with Lutherans becoming the first Protestant Christian church. Subsequent to this, Protestantism grew with Calvinism, Zwingli and other leaders of Protestant perspective from which are born Methodism and other denominations. All Protestants accept the low church perspective that priests and hierarchical men are not required to petition God and that our relationship is personal with God and not necessarily contingent on a relationship with a church body per se.
jJust as there are competing branches I. Catholicism ... Strict, reform, and other parts of the church, In the Lutheran church there are synods, some conservative (Wisconsin, Missouri, and LCMC Lutheran church in mission for Christ) and more liberal factions...namely the ELCA. Approximately four years ago at the biennial ELCA council a schism occurred when the very livable bishop of St. Paul rammed down the throat by a single vote a statement of bound conscious and human sexuality that essentially made blessing of gay marriage allowed. This also moved the standards and covenants of ministry to include monogamous homosexual clergy. Many, including myself, saw this as an apostasy and our individual congregations left the ELCA. This synod continues to be dwindling based on men not scripture...sort of what happened all the way back in 1517 Germany.
Whatever the perspective, we are Christian first accepting the perfection of salvation in Christ crucified the real presence of Christ at holy communion, and believe that we can only be saved by faith as presented in the Bible...the law telling us how we should love, and the gospel proclaiming the good news of salvation when we fail. We then practice our faith by the great commission of going and proclaiming the good news to all, baptizing in the name of the triune God.
and for my Lutheran friends they will understand this little joke...this is most certainly true :)