Posted on 01/31/2013 7:01:05 PM PST by Heart-Rest
Dr. Scott Hahn has a number of different recorded talks where he discusses his conversion from being an Evangelical Protestant Pastor to becoming an ordinary Catholic layman. Some of those talks tend to focus more precisely on that specific period from when he was already a Protestant Pastor through his actual conversion to the Catholic faith, but this audio recording has a broader focus, and includes a longer period in his life, including some of the foibles of his youth.
(This was originally just an audio recording, to which the "youtube" poster added some unusual slides for their "youtube video", but I'm just trying to draw attention here to the audio portion, not the visual slides from this youtube poster. Ignore the slides, and just focus on the audio.)
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No, that’s not what I meant at all.
Read Surprised By Joy some time. Then you will be aware.
Let’s see what the word of God has to say about his departure.
1 John 2:19
“They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.”
He was never truly “born-again” according to the word of God.
Well I’ve not read that work by CSL, but I’ve read a number of others, and the description of Surprised by Joy also talk of a journey from atheism to Christianity. Again, I’m missing the focus on a certain church or denomination in any description of this book that I can find.
My own faith has nothing to do with any church or denomination, and I never found faith until I left the Presbyterian church in fact. To me, the “church” Jesus refers to is the universe of true believers, and frankly, I think only a few of them reside in mainstream churches.
Where do you find in Sacred Scripture that Scott Hahn "was never truly born-again"?
It’s a subtle message in your postings that Catholics are wrong and you are right.
Why do you judge?
Then please explain to me what you meant by your statements:
“Looks like Hahn’s conversion has been good for business, his speaking and writing business. Just sayin.....”
“You missed the point...he turned his whole conversion thing into a cottage industry.”
Catholics are born again when they are baptized by water and the spirit.
Where are you getting the misinformation that he was never “born-again?”
“Unless you eat my body and drink my blood you shall not enter the kingdom of heaven.” from the book of John.
Actually, my suspicion of Hahn is on the Presbyterian half for the most part, since that is part of my background. I do have a suspicion of anyone making a big deal about a particular sect, denomination, church, etc, in general.
And let me try and explain a subtlety that has escaped you. This is a message board, meaning by defintiion it is about opinions. Not every post is a “judgement” and not every comment is reflective of sin. Sometimes its just about casual opinions and comments.
You have been the only judgmental one in our conversation, and I have been the only accurate one.
It's obvious you've not read it; that's why I recommended you do so. Your post to which I first responded said nothing about denominations; it simply accused Hahn of making a cottage industry of his conversion, to which I stated, quite accurately that the very same could be said of Lewis.
Lewis, in the very first paragraph of his preface to the book discusses, "my conversion," and he continues to refer to it as such throughout the book...indeed, the book is his spiritual autobiography. Which only reinforces my point: While Lewis is best and most widely known for his apologetics, had he remained unconverted, he would most likely have been remembered as an obscure academic, hence my contention that you could say his conversion became his "cottage industry," or at least the foundation upon which it was built.
And no, he did not jump from atheism to Christianity. He dabbled with various sorts of paganism and a general theism in between. They may not be "denominations" in a rigid sense, but they are (to include atheism) systems of faith and Lewis very positively saw his shifting views as "conversions" in much the same way Hahn regards his.
Just take yourself, and my post, about 25 times less seriously than you did initially, and you’ll be on the right track.
and my point is that a switch from Presbyterian to Catholic IS NOT A CONVERSION in any way shape or form that Lewis’s conversion was. If you don’t see the difference, and I mean a VAST difference, we are done here.
OK. I’ll take you at your word. I am curious, though. In an earlier post (#29) you mention being suspicious of Hahn. Why the suspicion? Did you know of him before his conversion? (You mentioned being Presbyterian, of which denomination he was a pastor before.) Have you ever read any of his works after his conversion?
I suppose that by posting this you assume that the “conversion” of Hahn (did he go from a believer in something other than the Christ to a believer in the Christ - I think not!) from Protestant to Catholic (categories I do not think will hold up on Judgment Day) is somehow significant. Listening to Hahn, I fail to see where there is any significance. He wouldn’t be the first person to hold a doctorate and be less than believable or trustworthy. That list is very, very long.
I remember debating with Gerry Matatics some years ago (but he has, sadly for lock-step Catholics, identified himself with the sedevacantist faction in Catholicism, and so probably lacks credibility in the minds of many Catholics, even though he was all the rage a few years ago) and found him less than convincing. He even alluded at the time to have been very familiar with, and approving of, Hahn. Both were Presbyterian, something in the Catholic mind to be lumped together with “Protestantism” as if all who they arbitrarily place in that category are the same as all others. (Protestant is, after all, a Catholic accounting category.) All of which overlooks the most basic of things. To be a disciple of Jesus Christ, the Son of God and Son of Man (that is, born of the Virgin Mary) is something that had validity and definition long before either trademarked Catholicism or Protestantism existed. Man’s imposition of his own standards of validity and veracity after the time of Christ is just that, imposition, if, that is, it does not find itself to be in harmony with the Holy Scriptures, the authority from which even the Christ never varied. (How could He?)
Hahn, in my estimation, is just a fellow - to be sure, a very smart fellow - who has exchanged one set of preconceptions for another. He may even be a true believer in Christ - and I hope he is! - but he has been caught up to a certain extant into the verities of his own age rather than the verities that are ageless.
So, I guess, Heart-Rest, thank you for reminding me of Scott Hahn. But he has not the significance for me as he, apparently, has for you.
A few posts back you were saying Lewis underwent a "transition", not a "conversion." The fact is whether one makes a lengthy journey from atheist to Anglican, or from Presbyterian to Roman Catholic, one is making a fundamental dogmatic shift. The more serious one is about their beliefs, the more profound those shifts are, even if it's from one denomination to another with what appear to be superficial differences. Let's face it, those seemingly insignificant differences were substantive enough to cause a splintering in the first place, so certainly, to the rigid dogmatist they are "VAST" differences.
Sectarian wars have erupted over the "tiniest iota" of differences, so to say that one who is serious about their faith making a leap from one Christian denomination to another is not embracing a "VAST" change is merely silly.
Dr. Hahn’s tapes really helped me and my wife in our journey back to Rome in the mid-90’s.
Thanks for this post.
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I don't think John was talking about Dr. Hahn there. It seems like it could be applied much more aptly to those disciples who rejected Jesus direct teaching that they should eat His body and drink His blood. (John 6:53-58)
Then it (Gospel of John) says:
Many therefore of His disciples, when they had heard this, said, "This is a hard saying; who can hear it?" (John 6:60)
From that time, many of His disciples went back, and walked no more with Him. (John 6:66)
Dr. Hahn has helped me so much also, and I still watch his series when they come on EWTN, even the reruns.
What is protestant anyway? Jack Hayford in Van Nuys, Calif., the chief editor of the New King James version of the bible wrote lots of books. Is Jack Hayford protestant? I guess not, neither he’s catholic. Is Rick Warren protestant? I know he is christian but neither a protestant.
Scott Hahn is brilliant. Catholic converts are the best. They have a great appreciation for the gifts that God has given us, things we take for granted like spoiled children. They also understand the mindset of Catholic bashers, because we don’t know what they are even talking about to defend ourselves.
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