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Are You Part of the Great Catholic Migration of the 21st Century?
Canterbury Tales ^ | January 30, 2013 | Dr. Taylor Marshall

Posted on 02/02/2013 10:48:10 PM PST by Brian Kopp DPM

Wednesday, January 30, 2013


Are you part of the Great Catholic Migration of the 21st Century?

Ever since my post "My Initial Doubts about the Latin Mass" also known affectionately as the "Grover Mass Post," I have been receiving numerous Facebook messages, emails, and comments from Catholics who read this blog and want advice about their current "parish crisis." The messages go like this:
What is to be done? My advice is that you should join the Great Catholic Migration of the 21st Century. Most people recognize that there is a de facto division growing within the Catholic Church. It's not popular are "ecclesiastically correct" to talk about this, but it's the elephant in the living room.
There are those cardinals, bishops, priests, religious, and laity who are 100% supportive of the Holy Father and Catholic Tradition and then there is another group that is not 100% supportive.

My experience, and the experience of others, confirms that Group B is not sympathetic or helpful to the lay people belonging to Group A. I realize that this is a controversial analysis. I'm avoiding the terms "liberal" and "conservative" so that this comment feed doesn't spin out of control. However, we can all readily identify the theology, liturgical styles, magazines, publications, Catholic schools, politicians, and Catholic universities that belong to Group B. Group B is, no doubt, still the majority in America.

Yet in the last several years, since the beginning of the Pontificate of Pope Benedict XVI, a migration has been occurring. The folks in Group A are growing weary and discouraged. They love Christ, love Mary, love the Pope, love traditional devotions, they love traditional Catholic architecture (not white-washed auditoriums or modern "worship spaces"), they love Gregorian chant, reverence, beauty, and anything else that brings glory and honor to Christ. These people are those that pray and give the most, and they are tired of being beat up. They are now migrating.

Here is what I mean by migration. These Catholics are not physically moving to new geographic areas (though some Catholics do literally move to be part of a wonderful parish). They are realigning their attendance, resources, skills, and money to those parishes, orders, schools, colleges, and other institutions that support and promote traditional Catholic orthodoxy and practice. These Catholics see beyond the slogans, clichés, and gimmicks of Group B's institutional advantage, and they are becoming aware of Catholic leaders and clergy who are spear-heading this great migration.

This migration is made possible through public transportation and the internet. People can now drive to the "good parish" in the diocese. They can now download great homilies at places like audiosancto.org. They can now have fellowship and friendship with like-minded Catholics via the internet. They can refuse to put their money in the local parish collection and instead send it the FSSP, the Norbertines of Orange County, the Canons of St John Cantius, or to a solid orthodox College that promotes the magisterial teachings of the Catholic Church. A large network is currently being extended and strengthened. It's unstoppable. 

What we have is a Catholic realignment and people are talking about it every day. It is only a matter of time before more and more people vote with their feet and vote with their pocket books. The dissenting parts of the Church will wither and die. Their influence will shrivel up. 

For those that have written to me about their crises of conscience, my advice to you is this: begin the migration. I'll probably catch flack from this, but I have prayed about it and asked Christ to lead me on this question. I'd encourage all of you to do the same. Ask Christ our Lord where He wants you to be. 

Is it a form of good stewardship to tithe your money to dissenting priests and parish staffs? Is it a form of good stewardship to submit your children to lame homilies, banal liturgy, and heterodoxy? I've only been given one life to live and Christ will ask me to give an account for each and every moment. I don't want to waste it and I bet that you don't want to waste it either.

Begin migrating to the good and holy priests who offer themselves as living sacrifices...for our spiritual well-being. Support these holy men! Find a monastery and get to know the religious there. Are they solid? Then support them with your money and prayers. Where is the closest discalced Carmelite convent to you? Start supporting them asking for their prayers? What about seminaries? You don't need me to tell you that not all seminaries are faithful and orthodox. There are still rotten seminaries out there. Research and ask about the seminaries near you. Visit them and learn about their curriculum and liturgical practices. Support the best seminaries. Focus your resources there. Begin researching Catholic Colleges that actually instill a deep Catholic faith in their students. Are these colleges equipping 22-year-olds to live debt-free, have large families, or find vocations?* Support them. These institutions are the future of Catholicism. Don't waste your God-given time and money on apostolates, parishes, and schools that are not fully supporting the one true Faith without which it is impossible to please God (Heb 11:6).

I'd like to hear from you:

First, is the Great Migration an over-reaction? I don't think it is, but there may be those that beg to differ. 

Second, have experienced a crisis in your own parish life. If so, pause, take a deep breath and don't write anything scandalous in the comments. Show respect and restraint. Instead, share with us how you fixed the problem or migrated with your family.

Third, I'm advocating a positive approach. I don't think we should be a crusade to rip apart the dissenting parts of the Church. I prefer to be a gentlemen about it. I'm not going to fight or argue about it. I'm just going elsewhere. I'm going quietly, but I'm bring people with me.

Fourth, please subscribe to my blog for daily updates on this subject an others. You can get a daily email with posts like this, free, by clicking here and signing up for the email feed.


Do you enjoy reading Canterbury Tales by Taylor Marshall? Make it easier to receive daily posts. It's free. Please click here to sign up by Feed or here to sign up by Email. Please also explore Taylor's books about Catholicism at amazon.com.

* One of the biggest cultural roadblocks in America to holy marriages and religious vocations is COLLEGE DEBT. If a Catholic young man and a catholic young lady have a combined debt of $80,000 from their Catholic college experience, will they not be tempted to delay marriage or contracept? Likewise, religious orders don't take novices who have debt. There are hundreds of young people wanting to enter the religious life, but they are shackled with debt. Creating "zero-debt" graduations is one of the major planks in the apostolate at Fisher More College.


TOPICS: Catholic; General Discusssion; Theology; Worship
KEYWORDS: faith
My Initial Doubts about the Latin Mass
Then Cardinal Ratzinger Before Celebrating the Latin Mass

By now it's no secret that I attend the Latin Mass and that I am the Chancellor of a College that offers the Latin Mass seven days a week - Fisher More College. However, I've not always been partial to the Latin Mass. For a few years after my conversion to the Catholic Faith, I was cautiously curious about the the "old Mass." I perceived it as exotic, antiquarian, and even as a dangerous. Although I had some esteem for the "old liturgies," I was not convinced of the merits of the Latin Mass and the culture, which for better or worse, surrounds it.

My wife and I starting taking our family to the Latin Mass around Feast of the Ascension of 2010. Before we made this move, however, I had some serious misgivings about the Latin Mass, which we also call the Extraordinary Form of the Roman Rite. Our concerns were some of the common concerns that others still have and voice regularly. I cannot speak for everyone, but I'd like to go through my own personal misgivings about the Latin Mass and then explain how I overcame them, or, to be blunt, learned to live with them.

What caused our family to make the move?

A Personal Reflection
There were a lot of things that caused us to make the transition. Part of it was my attachment to aesthetically beautiful liturgy from my Anglican days. Most of it had to do with my alarm at the liturgical abuse that we witnessed. For example, the first time that my four year old daughter saw female "altar boys" serving at the altar, she tugged on my sleeve and said, "Daddy, look. I wanna be a girl priest, too." Not encouraging. 

I truly believe that liturgical abuse is sinful, contrary to the will of God, and causes people to embrace poor theology. Lex credendi, lex orandi - the law of belief is the law of prayer. Yes, a Holy Mass is either valid or not. Don't hear me saying that the Novus Ordo is invalid. By all means it is. But the Mass is like a diamond engagement ring. It's not enough that it be a real diamond. It must also have a gold ring and a proper setting if you want it to really shine and be appreciated.

There were a number of dissatisfactions, but the breaking point happened some time in early 2010. It was the straw that broke the camel's back.

The "Grover" Moment
It was a Sunday. Novus Ordo parish. I won't identify the church. Our family went forward to receive Holy Communion. My family always tried to receive Communion from the priest, but sometimes it was impossible and you'd get re-routed to an Extraordinary Eucharistic Lay Minister. This re-routing must have happened this day. The EM to whom we were routed that day was wearing jeans and she had on an over-sized blue shirt with a giant image of Grover's face. I just did a Google search and found a picture of the exact shirt:

Here, I was entering into intimate Communion with the Divine Logos, the Second Person of the Blessed Trinity, the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ Himself...but I was staring into the face of Grover from Sesame Street. Grover never bothered me before, but that day I was deeply bothered by Jim Henson's icon staring me in the face. Beautiful vestments had been instituted for a purpose. Up until now I did not appreciate how they prevented the faithful from coming into contact with Muppets during the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass.

As I returned to my pew, I thought inwardly: "This is it! I just can't take it anymore. Things have to change Lord. I'm now desperate. I don't want my children to grow up with this perception of the one true Faith." I had seen worse things than this before, but for some reason the Grover moment broke me.

I was now ready to make full-hearted foray into the Latin Mass community served by the FSSP (Priestly Fraternity of Saint Peter - in union with the Holy Father, of course). Yet, I had a few pre-conceived notions against the Latin Mass and its adherents.

My Pre-Conceived Ideas
First of all, I was turned off by the so-called "traddies" who haunted the pews during the Latin Mass. Here are the common stereotypes of those scary traditionalists that you hear about in conversations:

  1. "Modest clothing," which seems to be interpreted as "denim for the ladies" and "no denim for the men," paired with ubiquitous jumpers for moms and daughters, men with pants hemmed too short, 1950s haircuts, and "brown" as the most holy of all colors. Actually, make that "Carmelite brown."
  2. Judgmental so that all outside their version of Catholicism are in need of "fraternal correction."
  3. Bishop-bashers, which means that we must police the behavior of bishops and post their faults online.
  4. Dour facial expressions: Sad, depressed, and/or angry.
  5. Uneducated, yet obsessed with Latin.
  6. Amish Catholics or Bunker Catholics, which means that we must bunker down, circle the wagons, and wait patiently for the Three Days of Darkness.
  7. Jansenists in theology, which means that they are really Catholic Calvinists who believe that human nature is totally depraved. St Thomas Aquinas rightfully taught that grace perfects nature. Jansenists hold that grace gets rid of that nasty nature.
I think that sums up the traddy stereotype pretty well. So, are they true?

Well, like all stereotypes, the traddy sterotype is greatly exaggerated but based on reality. Let me interject that my wife and I were braced for the worst but were pleasantly surprised. Yes, people did come up afterward and compliment our family. They were kind. They invited us to coffee. The priests were welcoming friendly and genuinely concerned for our souls. This last feature, the outstanding priests, is the key to all of this. We met young Catholic friends immediately - friends to this day. People were nice and friendly.

In true Thomistic fashion, let's examine each objection in order:

ad 1. "Modest clothing" which seems to be interpreted as "denim for the ladies" and "no denim for the men" paired with ubiquitous jumpers for moms and daughters, men with pants hemmed too short, 1950s haircuts, and "brown" as the most holy of all colors. Actually, make that "Carmelite brown."

My wife and I have learned that "modest" does not mean homely. It takes time, style, and even money to dress modestly and attractively. Are some people dressed in burlap jumpers? Not burlap, but there are some jumpers here and there. But that's just a tiny minority. Most men and women (and children) look pretty dignified. And to be quite honest, I'd much prefer to see a whole team of burlap jumper ladies than 19-year-old girls with low cut tops, short-shorts, or "jeggings." If you're Catholic in the USA, you know exactly what I'm talking about. Which would you rather have?

ad 2. Judgmental so that all outside their version of Catholicism are in need of "fraternal correction"

Judgmentalism is a problem for any Catholic who is serious about his faith. Whenever we try hard to enter the narrow gate, we occasionally pause and pity all the souls taking the other path. Pity often gives way to resentment, especially when they're having so much fun on the other path. Is there an inordinate amount of judgmentalism or Pharisaism in Latin Mass circles? Yes, it's certainly there. However, I don't think that Latin Masses causes judgmentalism. I think it's because the Latin Mass attracts religious people and the devil tempts the religiously minded with pride. The devil knows he's not going to tempt Mrs. Latin Mass to strut around in a tight sweater and jeggings. No, he has different plans for the religious. Pride is his powerful temptation for the devout.

ad 3. Bishop-bashers, which means that we must police the behavior of bishops and post their faults online.

Honestly, people I know love and pray for their bishop regularly. You hear some bishop bashing here and there; however, I heard it all the time in the Novus Ordo parishes, as well. I really don't think that Latin Mass adherents are big bishop-bashers. 

ad 4. Dour facial expressions: Sad, depressed, and/or angry

Now was everyone at the Latin Mass so friendly and cordial? No, of course not. There were a few ladies of advanced years that gave mean looks to my wife when our little ones interrupted - but that happened even at the Novus Ordo. Most people were happy and accepting. It's very common to see older women, teenage girls, or even other mothers take the infants of other mothers during Holy Mass to help them out. I haven't seen it anywhere else. There is true team work among Latin Mass ladies.

As for the men, they're just guys. Knights of Columbus. Sports. Dads. Just men. I have noticed that Latin Mass men universally own guns and are into hunting. Good features in my book.

ad 5. Uneducated, yet obsessed with Latin

The first part isn't true. What I have noticed is that the Latin Mass generally attracts two demographics: intellectuals and blue collar men. Perhaps the latter gives rise to the myth of "uneducated." Intellectuals are attracted because they see the importance of a continuity of tradition and they drama of sanctity in the old rites. But the same is true for your blue collar men. These men are real men and they are unimpressed with 1970s jingles, the overly-familiar "Father Bob," and other fluffy elements found in contemporary music and liturgy.

Also, it doesn't seem that people are obsessed with Latin or posit magical properties to it. As someone once said, Latin and silence are to the Roman liturgy what the iconostasis is to the Eastern liturgies. The human soul demands a separation between the profane and the sacred. There are other reasons for Latin (I cover a few reasons for Latin in my new book: The Eternal City - Rome & the Origins of Catholicism.)

ad 6. Amish Catholics or Bunker Catholics, which means that we must bunker down, circle the wagons, and wait patiently for the Three Days of Darkness.

When times are bleak, this is a dangerous temptation. We can feel that we must give up the positive call to evangelism because things are so bad. We can convince ourselves that our light must be placed under a bushel so as to not be snuffed out. While there are some who seek to revive an agrarian utopia of yesteryear, most are people studying, working, and living in the local community. Many of them are bringing people into the Catholic Church. Lots of converts.

ad 7. Jansenists in theology, which means that they are really Catholic Calvinists who believe that human nature is totally depraved. St Thomas Aquinas rightfully taught that grace perfects nature. Jansenists hold that grace gets rid of that nasty nature.

This is probably the most ridiculous, but I've been hearing it more and more frequently. The old heretics known as the Jansenists were down on devotion to the Saints, down on devotion to Mary, and down on devotion to the Sacred Heart. If anything, the priests and laity attached to the Latin Mass are the greatest enthusiasts for true devotion to the Rosary and the Sacred Heart. Also, Jansenism sought to have austere simplicity in the liturgy. A Solemn High Mass is anything but that!

People also need to know that Jansenism was a liturgical movement, but moving in the other direction of the Latin Mass. The Jansenists wanted vernacular Mass and Breviary, undecorated altars, candle sticks off the altar, whitewashed walls, removal of statues, and a decrease in private devotions.

What I've perceived is that if a priest preaches on hell, purgatory, contraception, divorce, or other difficult topics, he will be rumored as Jansenistic. Sermons on hell, especially, generally lead to allegations of Jansenism. My response is that we need to hear it.

To summarize, most of the stereotypes are not fully accurate but do in fact touch on elements, good or bad, in communities attached to the Extraordinary Form of the Latin Mass. To be honest I don't notice the stereotypes anymore. If I think about it, I can see it. However, they are more like surface features. They aren't of the essence. So let's turn to one final objection that does concern doubts over the essence of the Latin Mass: Lay Participation.

But What About the Latin and "Active Participation"?
Now we turn to an objection that is not simply about the people and culture, but about the old liturgy in particular. It is often asked, "How do you actively participate? It's in Latin. That's a huge barrier for me."

The Latin Mass is like beer. You have to drink it in a few times to like it. My challenge would be for you to attend the Latin Mass for four Sundays in a row before making a decision. Give it that long. Here's why:

You will slowly make a shift in the way that you assist at Holy Mass. Your concept of Active Participation will transform in your heart. There is a lot of quiet "space" in the Latin Mass. The first time or so, you'll be sitting there doing nothing and thinking, "What's going on? Why aren't we doing anything?"

When you've reached that point, you're getting close. It's like drinking beer for the first time. "This tastes terrible? What's the hype? I don't understand." But then you come to realize that beer is more than just the taste.

You realize something is different. Your soul begins to focus silently on Christ crucified. You find yourself kneeling next to the Blessed Virgin Mary in stunned silence as the priest lifts Jesus Christ over his head. You enter into the silence. It's difficult to understand. You simply have to experience it.

True Active Participation
This brings us to a new understanding of "Active Participation." Active participation is not moving your body around the sanctuary. Active participation is not serving as an altar boy, carrying cruets, reading a lesson, or being an EM. If that were the case, then every lay person in the nave would need a special job to fulfill to participate actively. This is not active participation, but it is false clericalism. It is the incorrect belief that a lay person must do something quasi-priestly for it to be meaningful and prayerful.

The Second Vatican Council did not promote active participation as clericalism. No, true active participation as promoted by the Council is modeled by the Blessed Virgin Mary. It means actively following the work of Christ on the cross with a humble and prayerful heart. Ask yourself, who was more "active" at the foot of the cross, the Roman soldiers or the Blessed Virgin Mary, Saint John, and Saint Mary Magdalene? Active participation is fulfilled by an inward disposition. This conforms to our conviction that God wants the heart more than he wants outward signs of piety.

Conclusion
To sum up, the positives are reverence and active participation. The negatives are laid out in the seven objections. My opinion is that there are certain truths connected to the seven stereotypes. I'm not saying that the stereotypes are entirely false, but they are greatly over-exaggerated.

So my challenge is to try out the Four-Week Challenge. Attend the Latin Mass (only in communion with the Holy Father - avoid schismatic groups) for four weeks and give it a go. It's a different experience. I think you'll find it wonderful.

Please leave a comment about your experiences.

1 posted on 02/02/2013 10:48:19 PM PST by Brian Kopp DPM
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To: Dr. Brian Kopp; RIghtwardHo; Reaganite Republican; Clintons Are White Trash; HerrBlucher; mgist; ...
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2 posted on 02/02/2013 10:54:04 PM PST by narses
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To: Dr. Brian Kopp; RIghtwardHo; Reaganite Republican; Clintons Are White Trash; HerrBlucher; mgist; ...
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Please ping me to note-worthy Pro-Life or Catholic threads, or other threads of general interest.

3 posted on 02/02/2013 10:54:15 PM PST by narses
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To: Dr. Brian Kopp; RIghtwardHo; Reaganite Republican; Clintons Are White Trash; HerrBlucher; mgist; ...
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Freep-mail me to get on or off my pro-life and Catholic List:

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Please ping me to note-worthy Pro-Life or Catholic threads, or other threads of general interest.

4 posted on 02/02/2013 10:55:21 PM PST by narses
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To: Dr. Brian Kopp

Thoughtful.

Thank you for posting this.


5 posted on 02/02/2013 11:15:34 PM PST by AliVeritas (Pray.)
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To: Dr. Brian Kopp; netmilsmom; thefrankbaum; Tax-chick; GregB; saradippity; Berlin_Freeper; Litany; ...
Here is what I mean by migration. These Catholics are not physically moving to new geographic areas (though some Catholics do literally move to be part of a wonderful parish). They are realigning their attendance, resources, skills, and money to those parishes, orders, schools, colleges, and other institutions that support and promote traditional Catholic orthodoxy and practice.

Essentially, those who migrate do so out of a desire to worship Christ in a more reverent and dignified manner. Yes, I too am a migrant. My choice, though, was to go East to the Maronite Catholic Church. The Maronite Church in its liturgy is fortunate in being the heir of at least two rich traditions, those of Edessa and Antioch. The Church of Edessa traces its origins to the preaching of the liturgical contributors included St. Ephrem and James of Saroug. The first Christian converts to the Church of Edessa included the earliest Jewish-Christians. As one of the oldest established churches, it developed its prayer forms before being influenced by Greek thought. Our Maronite liturgy today still has many hymns and prayers from St. Ephrem and James of Saroug.

The Church of Antioch was the ancient See of Peter and developed its liturgy with influences from the Church of Jerusalem. The Maronite Anaphora of the Twelve Apostles represents the oldest tradition of the Church of Antioch. St. John Chrysostom took this Anaphora with him to Constantinople and became the basis of the Byzantine liturgy. As heir to the Patriarchate of Antioch, the Maronite Church represents the Antiochene liturgy in its fullness. Thus, the Maronite Church, in its prayer life, preserves the way of worship of the Apostles and their earliest disciples.


Pope Benedict XVI and Maronite Patriarch Bechara Cardinal Rai

With 22 Churches and 8 Rites, the Catholic Church offers the faithful a great richness and diversity not found in any other church. As beneficiaries, we are most blessed!

6 posted on 02/03/2013 4:03:03 AM PST by NYer ("Before I formed you in the womb I knew you." --Jeremiah 1:5)
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To: Dr. Brian Kopp; netmilsmom; thefrankbaum; Tax-chick; GregB; saradippity; Berlin_Freeper; Litany; ...
Here is what I mean by migration. These Catholics are not physically moving to new geographic areas (though some Catholics do literally move to be part of a wonderful parish). They are realigning their attendance, resources, skills, and money to those parishes, orders, schools, colleges, and other institutions that support and promote traditional Catholic orthodoxy and practice.

Essentially, those who migrate do so out of a desire to worship Christ in a more reverent and dignified manner. Yes, I too am a migrant. My choice, though, was to go East to the Maronite Catholic Church. The Maronite Church in its liturgy is fortunate in being the heir of at least two rich traditions, those of Edessa and Antioch. The Church of Edessa traces its origins to the preaching of the liturgical contributors included St. Ephrem and James of Saroug. The first Christian converts to the Church of Edessa included the earliest Jewish-Christians. As one of the oldest established churches, it developed its prayer forms before being influenced by Greek thought. Our Maronite liturgy today still has many hymns and prayers from St. Ephrem and James of Saroug.

The Church of Antioch was the ancient See of Peter and developed its liturgy with influences from the Church of Jerusalem. The Maronite Anaphora of the Twelve Apostles represents the oldest tradition of the Church of Antioch. St. John Chrysostom took this Anaphora with him to Constantinople and became the basis of the Byzantine liturgy. As heir to the Patriarchate of Antioch, the Maronite Church represents the Antiochene liturgy in its fullness. Thus, the Maronite Church, in its prayer life, preserves the way of worship of the Apostles and their earliest disciples.


Pope Benedict XVI and Maronite Patriarch Bechara Cardinal Rai

With 22 Churches and 8 Rites, the Catholic Church offers the faithful a great richness and diversity not found in any other church. As beneficiaries, we are most blessed!

7 posted on 02/03/2013 4:04:02 AM PST by NYer ("Before I formed you in the womb I knew you." --Jeremiah 1:5)
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To: Dr. Brian Kopp

I migrated from our old parish 4 miles east of me, to our new parish 4 miles west of me.

Now my family gets to go to the TLM every single week. The boys serve the Mass, and my husband and I can concentrate on what’s happening on the altar.

We’ve never been happier.

Regards,

PS: The boys have made their best friends from among the dozens of teens and young adults who also go to and participate in this Mass. We couldn’t be happier with that outcome, either!


8 posted on 02/03/2013 4:17:57 AM PST by VermiciousKnid (Sic narro nos totus!)
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To: Dr. Brian Kopp
I was originally excited by the "New Mass." I eventually grew disenchanted because of all the violations I experienced. However, I put up with it for years. After my first wife's death I married a woman who was a strong Traditionalist. We sought out a Latin Mass community in the Diocese. It meant an hour's drive instead of a 15-minute walk, but at last I felt "at home." No more liturgical violations, no questionable homilies, no more "follow your conscience" with no attempt to form our consciences.

For years our Latin Mass community had been renting a church for a time when no other Masses were scheduled, hunting up a priest who would say the "old Mass," and missing out on parish life. Finally the Bishop gave us a church that was otherwise going to rack and ruin, and the Fraternity of St. Peter assigned us a priest. Now we're a genuine parish, with the associated parish life. Every Sunday we get more and more people. The parish is now big enough that we have not only a priest but an assistant.

We enjoy what we have, but we joke that now the Bishop has all the "troublemakers" in one place.

9 posted on 02/03/2013 5:38:26 AM PST by JoeFromSidney ( New book: RESISTANCE TO TYRANNY. Buy from Amazon.)
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To: NYer

I’m checking in as a traditional Catholic ...no more Father Showtunes for us. We vote with our pocketbook too.


10 posted on 02/03/2013 7:30:57 AM PST by exPBRrat
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To: Dr. Brian Kopp

(a parable)

I read of a mother’s frustration with her small boy. He would not clean up his room, a common complaint, so the floor was covered in toys and dirty clothes.

He rationalized this by saying that he still had a clear path from his bed to the door, so was willing to surrender the rest of the floor instead of doing the work to clean up the ever growing mess, even when his mother offered to help.

And this is the problem with Catholicism in America today.

As both clergy and laity engage in heterodoxy, and even in outright heresy, the church does little to discipline them. And those lay people who appreciate the values and morality of the church, now want to “walk around” the mess rather than to clean it up.


11 posted on 02/03/2013 8:40:56 AM PST by yefragetuwrabrumuy (Best WoT news at rantburg.com)
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To: yefragetuwrabrumuy
Your parable doesn't fit. The faithful lay people didn't make the mess, for one thing. For another, leaving modernist parishes, colleges, etc. behind means that those institutions don't get the financial support of faithful Catholics while ignoring or mocking them, their values, and their ideas. Maybe the loss of support will give them some incentive to clean up their own mess.

My own family left our territorial parish because we couldn't stand the cocktail lounge piano-playing at Mass, nor could we stand the highanded way that a "renovation" -- to convert an already-ugly church into a round auditorium indistinguishable, but for a few homely statues, from the evangelical megachurches around it -- was imposed on the parish. Now we go to a little parish in the inner city, with 19th century Gothic architecture, a high altar, the TLM once a month, and a schola which sings Gregorian chant.

12 posted on 02/03/2013 11:46:55 AM PST by Campion ("Social justice" begins in the womb)
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To: Dr. Brian Kopp

Question:

Did the recent updating of the English in the present NO mass help to at least make Catholics realize that there has to better reverence in regards to that mass?


13 posted on 02/03/2013 12:36:35 PM PST by Biggirl ("Jesus talked to us as individuals"-Jim Vicevich/Thanks JimV!)
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To: NYer

I are one...no kneelers in church, no praying for unborn, no praying for troops, no re-enforcement of Catholic values, letting pro-abortion, pro-gay
Parishioners lecture, etc., buh bye......


14 posted on 02/03/2013 3:01:41 PM PST by matginzac
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To: Dr. Brian Kopp

No, I guess I’m not. But if the Global Economic Collapse hits, Migratory Catholics can still stop by for some kudzu chowder, if they help wash up. Pat will natter psychotically at you in Latin and Greek.

If the 15-passenger van is in the driveway, I’m home. Bring wine.


15 posted on 02/03/2013 6:35:54 PM PST by Tax-chick (Anoreth goes, "But they'll kill us, Mom!" And I'm like, "So we die. Whatever.")
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To: Dr. Brian Kopp
"The local RCIA instructor..."

I knew the local RCIA instructor some years ago. He was teaching Tai Chi and continuously spouting Buddhist/pagan type philosophy and pantheistic stuff, in addition to having Bush derangement syndrome.

Now besides being an RCIA coordinator, he is a new church deacon. The thing is, I think all of the earlier stuff still applies. No, I would not consider listening to him for a second on Catholic matters, but he would be an excellent resource for eastern teachings.

16 posted on 02/03/2013 6:52:47 PM PST by steve86 (Acerbic by Nature, not Nurture™)
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To: Dr. Brian Kopp

I made the migration over 30 years ago. Best decision of my adult life. Can’t imagine how I’d have managed without it.


17 posted on 02/03/2013 6:53:09 PM PST by Romulus
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To: Tax-chick
15-passenger van

I'd humbly request to borrow that from you, but it would probably take more than a tank of gas to get it here.

18 posted on 02/03/2013 6:58:33 PM PST by steve86 (Acerbic by Nature, not Nurture™)
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To: NYer

I personally would have difficulty with the lack of priest celibacy, but other than that, more power to ya.


19 posted on 02/03/2013 7:05:16 PM PST by steve86 (Acerbic by Nature, not Nurture™)
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To: steve86

Several tanks of gas ... plus then we’d all just have to sit here watching the kudzu grow, because we couldn’t get to Walmart. And we’d have to go to a Baptist or Methodist church: we can walk to those without crossing a major highway!


20 posted on 02/04/2013 2:28:09 AM PST by Tax-chick (Just what this family needs: more smugness.)
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To: steve86
I personally would have difficulty with the lack of priest celibacy, but other than that, more power to ya.

Not sure I am following you. The Maronite Church does allow married me to be ordained to the priesthood but ONLY celibate clergy are sent to the diaspora. If anything, Cardinal Sfeir, the former Patriarch, praised priestly celibacy at a General Synod of Fathers, convened at the Vatican in 2005. Inevitably, this topic usually surfaces with Western clergy who suggest that allowing for married priests will prove to be the elixir in resolving the shortage of priests. The Cardinal's response is quite astute.



Vatican City, Oct. 07, 2005 (CNA) - The Cardinal defended the practice of the celibate priesthood and discussed the beauty of the tradition, calling it the "most precious jewel in the treasury of the Catholic Church."

While pointing out that "the Maronite Church admits married priests" and that "half of our diocesan priests are married", the Cardinal Patriarch said that "it must be recognized that if admitting married men resolves one problem, it creates others just as serious."

"A married priest", he said, "has the duty to look after his wife and family, ensuring his children receive a good education and overseeing their entry into society. ... Another difficulty facing a married priest arises if he does not enjoy a good relationship with his parishioners; his bishop cannot transfer him because of the difficulty of transferring his whole family.

He noted that "married priests have perpetuated the faith among people whose difficult lives they shared, and without them this faith would no longer exist."

"On the other hand," he said, "celibacy is the most precious jewel in the treasury of the Catholic Church,"


Essentially, while allowing married priests resolves one problem, it creates new ones. First off, the married priest must be matched with a parish that can financially support the wife and children. If for some reason it does not work out, the cost of relocating the entire family is far greater than that of a celibate priest. FWIU, the married priests are also employed to cover additional costs. More importantly, divorce in Lebanon is rare, whereas here in the west, it is more common. It would be scandalous for the church to have a priest who divorces his wife.

For these reasons, only celibate priests are allowed to serve outside of Lebanon. Our bishop here in NY, draws additional priests from a monastic community. These priests are young missionaries who live to serve God through His Church. Our pastor is only 35 years old and delivers Christ centered homilies. If you have the opportunity, I would encourage you to attend a Maronite Divine Liturgy. You will be moved by the depth of spirituality and reverence.

21 posted on 02/04/2013 4:49:49 AM PST by NYer ("Before I formed you in the womb I knew you." --Jeremiah 1:5)
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To: NYer
For these reasons, only celibate priests are allowed to serve outside of Lebanon.

I happened onto that piece of information last night a while after leaving my comment. Had read a little on the issue in the past, but apparently had stopped before getting to the distinction between Lebanon and the rest of the world.

Perhaps on a future trip to Portland, OR, my family might get an opportunity to visit the Maronite parish. That would be quite the treat!

22 posted on 02/04/2013 7:32:45 AM PST by steve86 (Acerbic by Nature, not Nurture™)
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To: Tax-chick

Just as well, I suppose.

A North Carolina vanity license plate saying ‘CATZ’ would stand out around here, and not necessarily in a good way!


23 posted on 02/04/2013 2:24:02 PM PST by steve86 (Acerbic by Nature, not Nurture™)
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To: steve86
Perhaps on a future trip to Portland, OR, my family might get an opportunity to visit the Maronite parish. That would be quite the treat!

Should you go, please freepmail me ahead of time and I will provide you with more detailed information on the liturgy. Our parish recently moved across the Hudson River from Troy to Watervliet. Since the move, several local area catholics have begun to join us. When I see a new face, I make time to explain some of the differences they will experience, for example, the sign of peace. Unlike the Latin Church, the Maronite approach is very reverent. The altar represents Christ, who is Peace. The priest places his hands on the altar, then transfers that peace to an altar server who brings it to 4 "peace bearers", usually children. These children then "carry" the peace from one pew to the next where it is passed along.

Another interesting element of the liturgy is the consecration of the chalice. The Maronite Church in its liturgy is fortunate in being the heir of at least two rich traditions, those of Edessa and Antioch. The Church of Edessa traces its origins to the preaching of the liturgical contributors including St. Ephrem and James of Saroug. The first Christian converts to the Church of Edessa included the earliest Jewish-Christians. Some of those traditions are preserved in the Maronite liturgy. For example, at the consecration of the cup, the priest tips the chalice in the 4 directions of the world, indicating that Christ spilled his blood for all mankind. This is a carryover from the ancient Jewish tradition where the priest sprinkled the blood of the sacrificial lamb on the four corners of the altar.

The Divine Liturgy of the Maronite is more ancient than that of Rome. The Church of Antioch was the ancient See of Peter and developed its liturgy with influences from the Church of Jerusalem. The Maronite Anaphora of the Twelve Apostles represents the oldest tradition of the Church of Antioch. St. John Chrysostom took this Anaphora with him to Constantinople and became the basis of the Byzantine liturgy. As heir to the Patriarchate of Antioch, the Maronite Church represents the Antiochene liturgy in its fullness. Thus, the Maronite Church, in its prayer life, preserves the way of worship of the Apostles and their earliest disciples.

24 posted on 02/04/2013 2:42:35 PM PST by NYer ("Before I formed you in the womb I knew you." --Jeremiah 1:5)
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To: NYer; Tax-chick

Thank you for the additional info, including what sounds to be a very appealing version of sign of the peace. Now if the Latin Novus Ordo had gone with that, and not introduced numerous errors, liturgy in the post-conciliar period might be much less contentious than it is!

I think it’s close to a certainty we will make the trip eventually, but I will still have to twist tax-chick’s wing to get that van out here if the trip is going to be anytime real soon!


25 posted on 02/04/2013 3:06:58 PM PST by steve86 (Acerbic by Nature, not Nurture™)
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To: steve86

I’ll tell Fr. Pro you need an extra-large vehicle and see what happens ... or maybe there’s a patron saint of semi-trucks ...


26 posted on 02/05/2013 2:26:04 AM PST by Tax-chick (Watch out for spiders.)
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To: NYer

We “migrated” to the Maronite Rite a couple of years ago. Thank God in Heaven for leading us there.


27 posted on 02/08/2013 5:54:18 PM PST by TheStickman
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