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Can abortionists really be Christians?
LAN ^ | Cassy Fiano

Posted on 02/05/2013 2:22:35 PM PST by Morgana

There’s something disturbing about abortionists, and the activists who support them, pretending that Jesus would be totally cool with abortion. You can kill babies all day long and still be a Christian, like, for sure!

That’s the latest claim from one abortion supporter, Reverend Matthew Westfox, the associate minister at All Souls Bethlehem Church. He’s insisting not only that you can be an abortion worker and still be a Christian, but that you’d also be serving God as you rip the little babies from their mothers’ wombs! Hallelujah!

Many times in my ministry, a conversation with abortion clinic staffers that began with talking about the spiritual needs of patients ends on a far more personal note. We talk about the spirituality they find in their work, the religious questions they have about abortion and their role in it, or simply their sadness over feeling that their work means they cannot join a faith community if they want to.

One doctor started his career as a minister, and sees his work in the clinic today as a way of serving God’s people, but he rarely talks about it in those terms. A nurse I spoke to says a prayer for her safety and that of her coworkers every day before leaving for work. An office manager told a colleague of mine that she braces herself every time she checks the mail, wondering how many hate letters she’ll come across, and wants a sacred community to turn to for support. One clinic counselor said she misses the rituals and music of her faith community, and often thinks about trying to find a church, but worries about being judged or shunned when small talk leads to questions about where she works.

… But when so often the only image we have of abortion providers is painted by those who seek to demonize them, and to use faith to do so, understanding the role that spirituality and faith play in the lives of some of those who do this work is deeply important. Particularly when so many feel their work means they will not find welcome in the houses of worship.

The spirituality they find in their work? A way of serving God’s people? Come on now. Let’s get real. As Kristen pointed out, every Christian deep down knows the truth about abortion and Christianity. This is delusion at its finest. You cannot be a Christian and be an abortionist, or advocate for abortion, or work to further abortion. 10-weeks-abortion

Partial remains of terminated human fetus after abortion at 10 weeks after fertilization.

It’s also somewhat sickening to hear abortionists speaking about how there is “spirituality” in their work, or that they’re serving God’s people. While I have no doubt that God is present at every abortion, He’s not there on behalf of the abortionist tearing the babies into pieces limb by limb, snuffing out their tiny lives. It’s sickening to hear abortionists using spirituality to whitewash their bloody work. What god is someone serving that he sees spirituality in this?

Now, as Christians, should we accept abortion workers into our parishes and churches? Yes, we should. Shunning them won’t change their hearts. Pushing them away won’t bring them to the light. Working in the abortion industry does not mean that there is no hope for that person. Let’s be honest: we’re all sinners in some form or fashion. God’s mercy can save us from those sins, even when it comes to those who work in abortion. And those people can’t find God’s love and forgiveness – and learn to change their ways – if we make them feel unwelcome and shun them from our congregations.

An abortion worker can’t be a true Christian – not while he’s advocating and furthering abortion. But that doesn’t mean he never can be. It’s never too late for someone to do some real reflection and introspection, and to see and accept the truth. Until that day comes, Isaiah 5:20 will be applicable to their claims.

Woe to those who call evil good, and good evil; Who substitute darkness for light and light for darkness; Who substitute bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter!


TOPICS: General Discusssion; Moral Issues
KEYWORDS: abortion; christians; prolife

1 posted on 02/05/2013 2:22:46 PM PST by Morgana
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To: Morgana

No.


2 posted on 02/05/2013 2:25:25 PM PST by re_nortex
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To: Morgana

They may THINK they’re Christians, but someday they’ll have a rude (and hot) awakening.


3 posted on 02/05/2013 2:26:43 PM PST by Slump Tester (What if I'm pregnant Teddy? Errr-ahh -Calm down Mary Jo, we'll cross that bridge when we come to it)
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To: Morgana

The Lord uses the good ones, while the bad ones use the Lord.


4 posted on 02/05/2013 2:27:19 PM PST by Jim from C-Town (The government is rarely benevolent, often malevolent and never benign!)
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To: Morgana

I would say I’m shocked but I’m not.


5 posted on 02/05/2013 2:28:09 PM PST by F15Eagle (1 John 5:4-5, 4:15, 5:13; John 3:17-18, 6:69, 11:25, 14:6, 20:31; Rom10:8-11; 1 Tim 2:5; Titus 3:4-5)
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To: Morgana

No.


6 posted on 02/05/2013 2:28:29 PM PST by sport
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To: Morgana

I think the 10 Commandments are clear.


7 posted on 02/05/2013 2:29:55 PM PST by Darren McCarty (If most people were more than keyboard warriors, we might have won the election)
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To: Morgana

Only the Liberal A-Holes talk about ‘Faith Communities’ or ‘Faith Traditions’.

It’s called religion and it has rules. It is not a tradition. It is a fact.


8 posted on 02/05/2013 2:31:35 PM PST by Jim from C-Town (The government is rarely benevolent, often malevolent and never benign!)
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To: narses; wagglebee; little jeremiah; Salvation; NYer; Tax-chick; GeronL

Am currently reading a book that is so unreal.

It is called “Abortion My Choice, God’s Grace: Christian Women Tell Their Stories” It is by Anne Eggebroten.

It was copyright 1994 and it’s ISBN 0-932727-79-0

When I first picked it up thought it was going to be another book of “I regret my abortion” stories. Far from it. Now most of the women do, but the stories will shock you. Like the woman who was coerced by her church to have an abortion because she “must obey her husband who does not want any more children”. The deacon and his wife drove her to the clinic but dropped her off down the street from the clinic and made her go in alone. She sat alone in the clinic, crying with her Bible praying God would deliver her baby just had he had speared Abraham’s son from sacrifice. Later her husband left her as you all could imagine.

Other stories include a Christian woman working as a clinic escort because that is showing the love of Jesus.

Just one story after another like this.


9 posted on 02/05/2013 2:33:24 PM PST by Morgana (This space for rent.)
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To: Morgana

After they repent .... and become Christians.


10 posted on 02/05/2013 2:34:24 PM PST by El Cid (Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house...)
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To: Morgana

When they engage in war against the innocent unborn they give up their souls to Satan and can no longer be a Christian, nor can they achieve salvation.


11 posted on 02/05/2013 2:37:39 PM PST by muawiyah
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To: El Cid

Repentence is overrated as a solution to the problem.


12 posted on 02/05/2013 2:39:32 PM PST by muawiyah
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To: Morgana

Throughout recorded history people doing horrendous things have concocted all sorts of rationals to alter their conscience and allow them to function. Soviet NKVD and KGB guards murdered entire families and then went home to their own. So did SS thugs. Abortionists kill without remorse. This has become accepted behavior in the decadent age of Obama.


13 posted on 02/05/2013 2:43:08 PM PST by allendale
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To: Morgana

They certainly can BECOME Christians. That’s one major thing to pray for.


14 posted on 02/05/2013 3:16:41 PM PST by Blue Collar Christian (Pray for revival. <BCC><)
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To: muawiyah

“When they engage in war against the innocent unborn they give up their souls to Satan and can no longer be a Christian, nor can they achieve salvation.”

That’s not so, and you know it.

Sin is sin. And murder is murder. Saul (St. Paul) was engaged in war against the innocents though they were already born. They were innocents in that their sins had been removed from them as far as the east is from the west.


15 posted on 02/05/2013 3:23:18 PM PST by Blue Collar Christian (Pray for revival. <BCC><)
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To: muawiyah

And sinners don’t achieve salvation, it is a gift from God. No one is good enough.


16 posted on 02/05/2013 3:25:15 PM PST by Blue Collar Christian (Pray for revival. <BCC><)
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To: Blue Collar Christian

Of course it’s true.


17 posted on 02/05/2013 3:37:08 PM PST by muawiyah
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To: Morgana

Can people who volunteer to work as death camp guards be Christians?


18 posted on 02/05/2013 3:57:11 PM PST by theBuckwheat
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To: Morgana

I’ve heard one comment that since the baby had no life outside the womb. and died before the age of reckoning, that it goes straight to heaven anyway, so it will be better for the child. That is still twisted, and does not excuse the abortionists.


19 posted on 02/05/2013 3:57:11 PM PST by Shery (in APO Land)
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To: Morgana
There is NOTHING Christian about MURDER , in the womb or out of the womb and the people who advocate either certainly are not following Jesus.



There is nothing Christian about this so called Reverend nor his so called church.

From their website - http://www.allsoulsbethlehem.org/index.html
To that end we enrich our worship and spiritual pilgrimage by drawing from other wisdom traditions, including Buddhism and Native American spirituality, and from other wise teachers such as Gandhi and the Dalai Lama.


20 posted on 02/05/2013 3:58:48 PM PST by Lera (Proverbs 29:2)
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To: Morgana

No.


21 posted on 02/05/2013 4:01:44 PM PST by kaehurowing
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To: Morgana

I believe an abortionist can convert to Christ. However, I believe if the conversion is genuine, he or she will repent and leave the profession like Carol Everett did-

http://prolifeaction.org/providers/everett.php


22 posted on 02/05/2013 4:03:30 PM PST by ReformationFan
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To: ReformationFan

Sorry ~ offering up your empty shell to God’s grace is just an empty shell. Sometimes when you sell yourself out it sticks.


23 posted on 02/05/2013 4:33:08 PM PST by muawiyah
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To: Slump Tester

Amen. My thoughts exactly. Their Bibles make it perfectly clear, “Thy Shall Not Murder.” What part of that do they not understand. Abortion is murder and I don’t give a good care what they might call it. God will judge them for it and their opinion is not going to matter to HIM!!!


24 posted on 02/05/2013 4:36:33 PM PST by RetiredArmy (1 Cor 15: 50-54 & 1 Thess 4: 13-17. That about covers it.)
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To: Blue Collar Christian

Excellent answer. I’ve never killed anyone, but I’m just as guilty in God’s eyes as any abortionist or even Adolf Hitler. I’ve been judged because I commit sin, not for individual sins. It’s only by God’s grace that I have been saved.


25 posted on 02/05/2013 4:46:47 PM PST by ShasheMac
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To: muawiyah

—Repentence is overrated as a solution to the problem.—

False. Repentence is the only solution to the problem.


26 posted on 02/05/2013 4:52:04 PM PST by justice14 ("Christ is Victorious" // twitter; @rjustice21)
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To: Morgana

IMHO it’s all about whether the person is a repentent person. If you have an unrepetent abortionist, no, they can’t be a christian. Same as if you had an unrepentent liar. Can’t be a christian.


27 posted on 02/05/2013 4:56:09 PM PST by justice14 ("Christ is Victorious" // twitter; @rjustice21)
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To: El Cid
Repentance -- the big factor.

Abby Johnson claims millions in fraud in ‘whistleblower’ lawsuit against Planned Parenthood
Abby Johnson: When I was a Planned Parenthood manager, I would have died for abortion
Abby Johnson: Celebrating Two Years Since I Quit Planned Parenthood
Abby Johnson: Parents, Tell Your Kids About Abortion; The Baby is Broken
Two Abortion Facility Workers Quit, Abby Johnson Says [FReepers: we can help them]
The new Abby Johnson?: Another Planned Parenthood manager quits and converts to pro-life
Abby Johnson: Abortion Doc Told Patient “I Will Take Your Sin”
Abby Johnson Joins LifeNews.com as Guest Pro-Life Blogger
Abby Johnson: ‘I would give my life’ to undo the evil I caused at Planned Parenthood
Former Planned Parenthood director: Dr. Nathanson ‘gave me hope I could do the same’

Former Planned Parenthood director, now pro-life, to become Catholic [Catholic Caucus]
A Deadly Domino Effect : Abby Johnson left Planned Parenthood and joined the cause of life.
Former Planned Parenthood director joins staff of Live Action
Former Planned Parenthood director to become Catholic
Former Planned Parenthood director to convert to Catholicism
Former Planned Parenthood director releases book
Escape from Abortion: A Review of unPlanned by Abby Johnson
Former Planned Parenthood director releases book
Escape from Abortion: A Review of unPlanned by Abby Johnson
First Chapter of Abby Johnson's Planned Parenthood Book Unplanned

28 posted on 02/05/2013 4:57:45 PM PST by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: justice14

God know these people ~


29 posted on 02/05/2013 5:07:26 PM PST by muawiyah
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To: muawiyah
Wrong.

Romans 8:39

30 posted on 02/05/2013 5:07:44 PM PST by xone
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To: Morgana

It depends on how you define “abortionist.”

My wife and I lost our baby before he was born, and we went to a Catholic hospital to have the baby “delivered.” They performed a D&C to remove the baby’s tiny body. One could consider that procedure to have been done by an “abortionist,” though you could argue that the pregnancy wasn’t “aborted” by any human, but by the Lord ...


31 posted on 02/05/2013 5:11:05 PM PST by Theo (May Christ be exalted above all.)
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To: muawiyah

—God know these people—

He does, and if they repent, they will be saved.


32 posted on 02/05/2013 5:16:14 PM PST by justice14 ("Christ is Victorious" // twitter; @rjustice21)
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To: Theo

I’m sorry for you and your wife’s loss. I wouldn’t consider your child aborted since God alone took him to heaven(I believe although I cannot give a specific Bible proof-text for that position), not man.


33 posted on 02/05/2013 5:34:25 PM PST by ReformationFan
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To: ReformationFan

I do agree with you.

But I wonder about how the physician who “delivered” our baby received his training, or if he considers what he does to be “abortion.” I doubt it, but do find it interesting to consider ...


34 posted on 02/05/2013 5:38:54 PM PST by Theo (May Christ be exalted above all.)
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To: muawiyah
Repentence is overrated as a solution to the problem.

I presume you were not serious with this comment, but in case you were ...

Repentance is the Only solution. By nature we are sinners heading in the wrong direction (straight to hell). The only solution is repentence. Turn or burn.

As Peter cries out in Acts to those asking what they must do to have their sins blotted out and to be delivered from the coming Judgement: 'Repent ye therefore and be converted!'

And as the Lord Jesus Christ said in Matthew 9:13b: '... for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance. '

And as Peter reminds us - God is merciful and patient, not willing that people should go to eternal damnation - but the people need to repent: 2Peter 3:9 'The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.'

So Repentance is the first, and necessary, step...

35 posted on 02/05/2013 6:40:18 PM PST by El Cid (Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house...)
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To: Morgana

The Houston Area Democrats have celebrated the birth of Jesus at Planned Parenthood, so if they can’t see the problem with that...


36 posted on 02/05/2013 6:58:29 PM PST by GeronL (http://asspos.blogspot.com)
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To: GeronL

“The Houston Area Democrats have celebrated the birth of Jesus at Planned Parenthood, so if they can’t see the problem with that...”

Oh and let me guess how they did that!? They did an abortion on a 15 year old unmarried woman named “Mary”?

Sickos.


37 posted on 02/05/2013 7:07:07 PM PST by Morgana (This space for rent.)
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To: Morgana
What god is someone serving that he sees spirituality in this?

The "god" is called by various names including Molech, Moloch, Baal, Chemosh or Milcom. The worship of him involved "propitiatory child sacrifice".

    According to Biblical texts, the laws given to Moses by God expressly forbade the Israelites to do what was done in Egypt or in Canaan.

    Leviticus 18:21:
    ‘Do not give any of your children to be sacrificed to Molek, for you must not profane the name of your God. I am the LORD.

    Leviticus 20:2–5:
    Again, you shall say to the Sons of Israel: Whoever he be of the Sons of Israel or of the strangers that sojourn in Israel, that gives any of his seed l'Molech; he shall surely be put to death: the people of the land shall stone him with stones. And I will set my face against that man and will cut him off from among his people; because he has given of his seed l'Molech, to defile my sanctuary, and to profane my holy name. And if the people of the land do at all hide their eyes from that man, when he gives of his seed l'Molech, and do not kill him, then I will set my face against that man, and against his family, and will cut him off, and all that go astray after him, whoring l'Molech from among the people.

    2 Kings 23:10 (on King Josiah's reform):
    And he defiled the Tophet, which is in the valley of Ben-hinnom, that no man might make his son or his daughter pass through the fire l'Molech.

    Jeremiah 32:35:
    And they built the high places of the Ba‘al, which are in the valley of Ben-hinnom, to cause their sons and their daughters to pass through the fire l'Molech; which I did not command them, nor did it come into my mind that they should do this abomination, to cause Judah to sin.

    Later commentators have compared these accounts with similar ones from Greek and Latin sources speaking of the offering of children by fire as sacrifices in the Punic city of Carthage, a Phoenician colony. Cleitarchus, Diodorus Siculus and Plutarch all mention burning of children as an offering to Cronus or Saturn, that is to Ba‘al Hammon, the chief god of Carthage. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moloch

This "god" was, as ALL false gods are, really demons and Satan who is "a murderer from the beginning". He takes what is dedicated to God (the first born). It is little wonder that most abortions are done on the first child of a woman, though many go on to have subsequent abortions. It is a great evil that has only grown in frequency the further away society gets from knowing and following the one, true God. Though the act of abortion does not take the form of "passing a child through the fire" as a physical action to a god, a child IS sacrificed, none the less. The tiny remains are often incinerated or put through commercial grade disposers. God will NOT tolerate such evil for much longer and there WILL be a reconing. Those who work in this horrible business MUST be counseled to repent and leave it as God will NOT bless anyone who who waves off the horror being done. How anyone can possibly think they are "doing God's work" is beyond me, unless the god is the one described above.

Jesus told the woman caught in adultery to, "Go and sin no more.", should we advise those who seek to know Christ anything less?

38 posted on 02/05/2013 11:32:26 PM PST by boatbums (God is ready to assume full responsibility for the life wholly yielded to Him.)
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To: Theo

No, the doc was not an abortionist. He did not kill the baby, just removed the dead body. I’m sure it was hard for you, prayers for your child and for your family


39 posted on 02/06/2013 12:56:15 AM PST by Cronos
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To: Morgana

“By their fruits ye shall know them”


40 posted on 02/06/2013 1:13:30 AM PST by circlecity
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To: El Cid

People who make a business of murdering babies are not good candidates for repentence ~ they might even say the words but they lie.


41 posted on 02/06/2013 5:03:08 AM PST by muawiyah
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To: muawiyah
People who make a business of murdering babies are not good candidates for repentence ~ they might even say the words but they lie.

I agree with you there.
Nonetheless, we know that God can save the worst of sinners - thank God for that!
But I agree with your general premise - the vast majority of those who make it their business of murdering innocents aren't 'likely' candidates to repent. They have long ago rejected God and His Word, and hardened their hearts and ears to the call of the Holy Spirit. That said, every now and then God will pluck even one out of their midst and save them - perhaps just to show us His awesome power and mercy (and patience)...

42 posted on 02/06/2013 7:58:49 AM PST by El Cid (Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house...)
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