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Love Your Mormon Neighbors
The Gospel Coalition.org ^ | Feb. 4, 2013 | John Divito

Posted on 02/07/2013 4:42:47 PM PST by Colofornian

I was raised in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, commonly referred to as Mormonism. Since my parents were active members of the LDS Church, I went to church every Sunday. And like many of those raised in the church, I had a testimony, was baptized when I turned 8, received the Aaronic priesthood at 12, and had a temple recommend. But as I grew older, I became less interested in my Mormon faith. So at age 18, instead of serving my two-year mission as I had been raised to do, I decided to go to college.

While I was pursuing my bachelor's degree, I came to trust in Jesus Christ alone for my salvation. Through my own study and hearing the Word taught at a campus ministry, I knew that I deserved God's punishment for my sins. I also knew that Mormonism did not have the answer, because I could never be good enough to gain eternal life. I came to faith in Christ, resting solely in what he had done for me—he fully paid for my sins on the cross, and in him I received his perfection and righteousness. Because of Christ, I have been reconciled to God and adopted as his son. Praise God for his free gift of salvation!

Continuing to Love Mormons

Now that I have been saved, I continue to have a deep love for Mormons and a strong desire for them to know hope and rest in Christ. Over the years, I have found that if they were not raised in the LDS Church then they generally became interested because of the care and love they received from Mormons. I also know that some became attracted to Mormonism because of their high moral standards and devotion to family. But however one becomes a Latter-day Saint, I am convinced that the teaching of the LDS Church does not provide true hope or security for eternal life. With millions of Mormons worldwide and their aggressive plan for expansion, I pray that all genuine believers will recognize that God has called us to reach out to Mormons with the gospel of Jesus Christ. Will you join with me? Then let me provide you with some counsel.

Love Your Mormon Neighbors

Yes, I am stating the obvious, but is it really so easy? We slam the door in the faces of Mormon missionaries. We tend to avoid our Mormon coworkers because of their weird beliefs and practices (don't they wear holy underwear?). We may even mock Mormons on our blogs, Facebook, Twitter, or other public forums. Maybe we should stop and ask ourselves why we act this way, repenting if necessary. We should love our Mormon neighbors, getting to know them and developing relationships with them as friends. Here's an idea: The next time we see Mormon missionaries, let us invite them over for dinner, enjoying their company.

Recognize Their Need for Christ

Scripture shows us why there are other religions in the world. According to the apostle Paul, unbelievers suppress the truth by their unrighteousness (Romans 1:18). So other religions are essentially counterfeit worldviews created by men who desire to keep living in sin and rebellion against God. We see this in religions that corrupt God's general revelation in creation (Romans 1:19ff), and we also see this in religions that corrupt God's special revelation in Scripture. The apostle Paul warns us against those who come and proclaim another Jesus, a different spirit, and a different gospel (Galatians 1:8; 2 Corinthians 11:4). So not everyone who claims to believe in Jesus Christ is a genuine believer. When you compare what Mormons teach with God's revelation in the Bible, you will quickly see that their teaching is not the faith "once for all delivered to the saints" (Jude 3). They need to believe in the true gospel of the true Christ with the true Spirit. Will you love them enough to share this gospel of hope with them?

Study Their Religion

If you were going to be a missionary in the Middle East, you would obviously have to understand the beliefs of Islam in order to effectively communicate the gospel to Muslims. It is no different when seeking to evangelize Mormons. You must recognize the differences between Mormonism and Christianity. Thankfully, there are many resources easily available today to help you. I would suggest Mormonism 101 by Bill McKeever and Eric Johnson as a worthwhile comparison between Mormonism and evangelical Christianity. I also highly recommend Speaking the Truth in Love to Mormons by Mark J. Cares. This book may be harder to find, but its "Dictionary of Mormonese" alone is worth the price. Since Mormons often "use the same language as Christians but with a different dictionary," you must understand how they use words to effectively share the gospel with them.

Learn Their Culture

Because of the LDS Church's history and unique identity, Mormonism is not merely a set of religious beliefs—it is also a culture. You should learn how Mormons live, what they value, and other important aspects of their culture. While I sometimes disagree with David Rowe and think he is too critical of traditional countercult apologetic efforts, I still recommend his book I Love Mormons because he insightfully explains and interacts with Mormon culture.

Treat Them Individually

When evangelizing Mormons, we should not debate Mormonism as an abstract system. We should be lovingly engaging with a real, living Mormon person. Most Mormons are not theological scholars. They are usually more interested in living a good and moral life. As a result of the LDS Church's emphasis on morality and family and a general lack of doctrinal understanding among its members, many Mormons today are unfamiliar with historic and even contemporary LDS Church teaching. We cannot assume that just because the church has taught something, an individual Mormon believes it. You need to take the time to know what your Latter-day Saint friend believes and then respond to his or her faith in light of the truth of God's Word.

Pray for Their Salvation

Salvation is of God, not man. Your persuasiveness or intellectual ability will not convince Mormons of the truth—only the Holy Spirit can open their hearts. As evangelical campus minister Will Metzger reminds us: "Prayer for others is the supreme God-ordained method in evangelism. Unless God changes a person's heart, nothing lasting will be achieved. Prayer is a means of raising dead sinners to life!" While we may be tempted to trust in our own abilities when evangelizing a Mormon, we must trust in God to give faith to those who hear the gospel. This critical truth must never be overlooked.

Have Confidence in Christ

I have talked to many Christians who believe that Mormons are somehow harder to win to Christ than others. While I recognize that there are challenges, all unbelievers are dead in their trespasses and sins (Ephesians 2:1). The salvation of Mormons is no more difficult for God than that of any other unbeliever. We should faithfully proclaim the gospel to Mormons, trusting in Christ to draw them to himself. Let us rest in his strength to save Mormons for his glory!

John Divito is a former Mormon, a graduate of The Southern Baptist Theological Seminary (MDiv 2007), and currently serves as the administrator for the Midwest Center for Theological Studies in Owensboro, Kentucky. He also serves as a deacon at Heritage Baptist Church.


TOPICS: Apologetics; Ministry/Outreach; Other Christian; Other non-Christian; Prayer
KEYWORDS: inman; lds; mormonism; outreach; witnessing
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From the testimony: I was raised in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, commonly referred to as Mormonism. Since my parents were active members of the LDS Church, I went to church every Sunday. And like many of those raised in the church, I had a testimony, was baptized when I turned 8, received the Aaronic priesthood at 12, and had a temple recommend. But as I grew older, I became less interested in my Mormon faith. So at age 18, instead of serving my two-year mission as I had been raised to do, I decided to go to college. While I was pursuing my bachelor's degree, I came to trust in Jesus Christ alone for my salvation. Through my own study and hearing the Word taught at a campus ministry, I knew that I deserved God's punishment for my sins. I also knew that Mormonism did not have the answer, because I could never be good enough to gain eternal life. I came to faith in Christ, resting solely in what he had done for me—he fully paid for my sins on the cross, and in him I received his perfection and righteousness. Because of Christ, I have been reconciled to God and adopted as his son. Praise God for his free gift of salvation!

I have direct ancestors who were Lds; many Lds relatives. They are a people of great worth to our Lord. He values them highly.

As the apostle Paul said, "For we wrestle not against flesh and blood..." (Ephesians 6:12). Hence, Lds are not our enemies -- any more than any standard rescuer would treat hostages as "enemies."

But, indeed, Mormons are are in spiritual bondage -- oft of a legalistic nature: As Paul also told the Ephesians how "in times past" we (all) "were by nature the children of wrath, even as others." (Ephesians 2:3)

The Mormons I've known -- as well as non-Christians -- don't like acknowledging Paul's post-atonement Eph. 2:3 remarks about being "by nature the children of wrath."

What's unusual, tho, is that even the Lds Pearl of Great Price "scriptures" teach that children are conceived in sin (Moses 6:55), which "jives" more with Psalm 51:5 and 58:3; and the Book of Mormon teaches that men have a "carnal and fallen state" and that unless "they become new creatures...unless they do this, they can in nowise inherit the kingdom of God." (Mosiah 27:26)...adding in v. 25 & elsewhere in the BoM that they "must be born again".

From the article: The apostle Paul warns us against those who come and proclaim another Jesus, a different spirit, and a different gospel (Galatians 1:8; 2 Corinthians 11:4). So not everyone who claims to believe in Jesus Christ is a genuine believer. When you compare what Mormons teach with God's revelation in the Bible, you will quickly see that their teaching is not the faith "once for all delivered to the saints" (Jude 3).

So...as the author of this article says...the next time a Mormon missionary drops by...have a series of in-depth discussions. Treat them respectfully. Love them -- including loving them with the truth (1 Corinthians 13:6). Since the Lds church lowered their age requirement for missionaries: I forecast they will have over 100,000 out there...if not this year by early 2014.

1 posted on 02/07/2013 4:42:51 PM PST by Colofornian
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To: All
From the article: ...there are many resources easily available today to help you. I would suggest Mormonism 101 by Bill McKeever and Eric Johnson as a worthwhile comparison between Mormonism and evangelical Christianity. I also highly recommend Speaking the Truth in Love to Mormons by Mark J. Cares. This book may be harder to find, but its "Dictionary of Mormonese" alone is worth the price. Since Mormons often "use the same language as Christians but with a different dictionary," you must understand how they use words to effectively share the gospel with them.
2 posted on 02/07/2013 4:44:01 PM PST by Colofornian
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To: Colofornian

It’s also not a bad idea to be respectful and open to the FLDS, too. I’ve managed to make a few friends among them and have mailed two New International Version Bibles to two of them and both have come back with remarkable insights from their studies.

For some odd reason I find it easier to get closer to FLDS people than LDS people. Maybe it’s just me. In any case, try to think of them in your prayers, too.


3 posted on 02/07/2013 4:48:16 PM PST by MeganC (“Free Men Need Not Ask Permission!”)
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To: Colofornian

I have known many LDS folks, and ALL have been exemplary.

I know a few true liberals and as Thumper’s mother said, “If you cannot say anything nice...”


4 posted on 02/07/2013 4:58:01 PM PST by Da Coyote
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To: Colofornian

Many of us have callings, and although I am not a Mormon, I have the highest respect for those who embrace this religion. I have had colleagues and friends who were Mormon, and I found their conscientiousness and dedication truly admirable.


5 posted on 02/07/2013 5:03:54 PM PST by Ranger Warrior ("To stand in silence when they should be protesting makes cowards out of men." - Abraham Lincoln)
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To: Colofornian

Of course we should love mormons, we should love all and pray for their Salvation.


6 posted on 02/07/2013 5:06:00 PM PST by svcw (Why is one cell on another planet considered life, and in the womb it is not.)
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To: Colofornian

Thank God salvation by Jesus is not determined by how smart you are.. for I am not too smart...

True.. I’m smarter than a Mormon, or Roman Catholic or Baptist or even a Pentecostal.. I am none of those..
But my life has proved that I am not too smart..

Which can generate humility and gratitude..
I suppose a few smart ones can “make it” as well.. where ever “IT” is..
But I am not smart enough to determine which is which..
Thank God for stupidity.. and grace and forgiveness..
and brotherhood and sisterness..


7 posted on 02/07/2013 5:06:16 PM PST by hosepipe (This propaganda has been edited to include some fully orbed hyperbole..)
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To: MeganC
It’s also not a bad idea to be respectful and open to the FLDS, too. I’ve managed to make a few friends among them

Where have you found FLDS people in California?

The only place I have ever seen them is in Southern Utah and Northern Arizona.

8 posted on 02/07/2013 5:07:15 PM PST by P-Marlowe (There can be no Victory without a fight and no battle without wounds.)
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To: Da Coyote; Ranger Warrior; All
(I've said it before, and I'll say it again: When you're auditioning for godhood, as are male temple Mormons, of course, you're going to be on your best public behavior!!!)

And even tho Jesus sharply criticized the inward behavior of the legalistic Pharisees...he gave them one compliment too: 20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven. (Matt. 5:20)

By this...Jesus was saying that the legalistic Pharisees were doing their utmost with outward righteousness...and yet Matthew 23 shows how critically they were failing...ESPECIALLY on the inside!

Jesus, therefore, loved them with the truth! Starting with Himself, The Living Truth!

9 posted on 02/07/2013 5:10:01 PM PST by Colofornian
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To: MeganC
...I find it easier to get closer to FLDS people than LDS people. Maybe it’s just me. In any case, try to think of them in your prayers, too.

Interesting.

Yes, pray for them as well (after all, they are Mormons, too!)

10 posted on 02/07/2013 5:16:48 PM PST by Colofornian
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To: Colofornian
Here's an idea: The next time we see Mormon missionaries, let us invite them over for dinner, enjoying their company.

Works for me; but the MORMONs that I see most are right here on FR.

They are proud, opinionated and just SURE that we 'GENTILES' are wrong.

They can avoid the hard questions as well as Hillary; even to repeating of her latest catchphase: "What difference does it make?"

They are the ones; when faced with what their chosen religious organization has believed, taught and pushed; tend to get really silent when SHOWN the difference between what the BIBLE says and what their organizations 'scripture' states.

Love 'em?

Sure.

Back down from them: never.

11 posted on 02/07/2013 5:17:20 PM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Da Coyote
I have known many LDS folks, and ALL have been exemplary.

No doubt they have.

But what do you think of their RELIGION?

12 posted on 02/07/2013 5:18:51 PM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Ranger Warrior
Many of us have callings, and although I am not a Mormon, I have the highest respect for those who embrace this religion.

From this statement; I'm going to assume that you are NOT a Christian.

13 posted on 02/07/2013 5:19:46 PM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: hosepipe
I do not understand what you mean by this:

But I am not smart enough to determine which is which..

14 posted on 02/07/2013 5:21:19 PM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Colofornian


15 posted on 02/07/2013 5:22:50 PM PST by JoeProBono (A closed mouth gathers no feet - Mater tua caligas exercitus gerit ;-{)
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To: Colofornian
Yes, pray for them as well (after all, they are Mormons, too!)

You jest wanna tick SLC's lawyers off; don't you!


Media Letter   
26 June 2008 — Salt Lake City  (http://newsroom.lds.org/additional-resource/media-letter)

*The following is a letter from Elder Lance B. Wickman, General Counsel of the Church to publishers of major newspapers, TV stations and magazines. It was sent out on Tuesday, June 24, 2008.




Recent events have focused the media spotlight on a polygamous sect near San Angelo, Texas, calling itself the “Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints.” As you probably know, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints has absolutely no affiliation with this polygamous sect. Decades ago, the founders of that sect rejected the doctrines of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, were excommunicated, and then started their own religion. To the best of our knowledge, no one at the Texas compound has ever been a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

Unfortunately, however, some of the media coverage of the recent events in Texas has caused members of the public to confuse the doctrines and members of that group and our church. We have received numerous inquiries from confused members of the public who, by listening to less than careful media reports, have come to a grave misunderstanding about our respective doctrines and faith. Based on these media reports many have erroneously concluded that there is some affiliation between the two – or even worse, that they are one and the same.

Over the years, in a careful effort to distinguish itself, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints has gone to significant lengths to protect its rights in the name of the church and related matters. Specifically, we have obtained registrations for the name “The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints,” “Mormon,” “Book of Mormon” and related trade and service marks from the U.S. Patent and Trademark Office and corresponding agencies in a significant number of foreign countries.

We are confident that you are committed to avoiding misleading statements that cause unwarranted confusion and that may disparage or infringe the intellectual property rights discussed above. Accordingly, we respectfully request the following:

  1. As reflected in the AP Style Guide, we ask that you and your organization refrain from referring to members of that polygamous sect as “fundamentalist Mormons” or “fundamentalist” members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
  2. We ask that, when reporting about this Texas-based polygamous sect or any other polygamous group, you avoid either explicitly or implicitly any inference that these groups are affiliated with The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
  3. On those occasions when it may be necessary in your reporting to refer to the historical practice of plural marriage in The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, that you make very clear that the Church does not condone the practice of polygamy and that it has been forbidden in the Church for over one hundred years. Moreover, we absolutely condemn arranged or forced “marriages” of underage girls to anyone under any circumstances.

Stated simply, we would like to be known and recognized for whom we are and what we believe, and not be inaccurately associated with beliefs and practices that we condemn in the strongest terms. We would be grateful if you could circulate or copy this letter to your editorial staff and to your legal counsel.

We thank you for your consideration of these important matters.

Sincerely,

Lance B. Wickman

General Counsel

16 posted on 02/07/2013 5:23:09 PM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Da Coyote; Ranger Warrior

exemplary, dedicated............what do those words mean?
mormons maybe fantastic persons, they are still diluted.
mormonISM is not Christianity and no matter how nice they are, or how well behaved they are Salvation eludes them.
Being nice or exemplary does not make Salvation.
Evaluating the truthfulness or the righteousness of mormonism is not found in meeting a few nice people in the lunch room, their beliefs are found in their texts, their videos, their history.....it might serve you well to learn about mormonism before you defend it.


17 posted on 02/07/2013 5:32:39 PM PST by svcw (Why is one cell on another planet considered life, and in the womb it is not.)
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To: All
From John Divito's testimony: I came to trust in Jesus Christ alone for my salvation. Through my own study and hearing the Word taught at a campus ministry, I knew that I deserved God's punishment for my sins. I also knew that Mormonism did not have the answer, because I could never be good enough to gain eternal life. I came to faith in Christ, resting solely in what he had done for me—he fully paid for my sins on the cross, and in him I received his perfection and righteousness. Because of Christ, I have been reconciled to God and adopted as his son. Praise God for his free gift of salvation!

Mormons tend to think of grace as primarily future-tense due to Book of Mormon passages like 2 Nephi 25:23 and Moroni 10:32...kind of like some after-burner will kick in to both "save" the Mormon and lead them to perfection.

The apostle Paul destroyed that nonsense:

...the gospel, by the power of God who has saved us and called us to a holy life—NOT because of anything WE have done BUT because of his own purpose and grace. This grace was given us in Christ Jesus before the beginning of time... (2 Tim. 1:8-9)

The reality?
#1 We're saved by the character of graciousness exhibited by God as exercised in His Son, Jesus Christ; not the character of man.
#2 And to pre-empt complete boasting on man's part, 'twas done before the clocked ticked once. (That's why the apostle Paul said that if “works” served as man's way to God, WE could boast about how WE “worked” our way into God's presence – see Ephesians 2:8-9)

Think of all this w/this illustration:

Parental "grace" or "favor" extended by adopted parents is "grace" extended to all they adopt, right?

But say you adopted a 12 yo boy who no matter what "pure gift" you gave to him @ his birthday or Christmas time, he would absolutely insist that he "work" for it..."pay you back" for it...and even eventually billed himself for "room and board" during his teen years to "pay you back" for that, too...

Believe me, such a 'tude exhibited by the "pay-back boy" would get old soon enough. How many times would the father say to Himself, "You know this boy can never pay back how I reached into the darkest part of the world to rescue him; yet he thinks he can 'earn' his way into sonship." At some point, this legalism is going to become "offensive" to a Gracious Father -- just like it would if your adopted son could never simply "receive" gifts from you.

Bottom line: Does the above describe a grace-filled father-son relationship?; or is that a legalistic tit-for-tat campaign to "prove" himself "worthy" as if he was a mere "house tenant" -- instead of acting like a true adopted son?

The apostle Paul also made it clear to the Galatians that they could nullify grace. Consider these three passages he wrote to them:

Galatians 2:21:
I do not set aside the grace of God, for if righteousness could be gained through the law, Christ died for nothing! [My note: If we de-magnify God's grace, we set it apart...and belittle the cross of Christ, which the Mormons don't honor, anyway]

Galatians 3:1-3: 1You foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you? Before your very eyes Jesus Christ was clearly portrayed as crucified. 2I would like to learn just one thing from you: Did you receive the Spirit by observing the law, or by believing what you heard? 3Are you so foolish? After beginning with the Spirit, are you now trying to attain your goal by human effort?

Galatians 5:4: You who are trying to be justified by law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace. [Example of grace nullification]

The apostle Paul also told the Romans – 11:5-6: 5 So too, at the present time there is a remnant chosen by grace. 6 And if by grace, then IT CANNOT BE BASED ON WORKS; IF IT WERE, GRACE WOULD NO LONGER BE GRACE.

Simply put: Grace is an unearned, undeserved, unmerited gift!

#1 8 For it is BY GRACE you have been saved, THROUGH FAITH—and this is NOT FROM YOURSELVES, it is the GIFT God— 9 NOT by works, so that no one can boast. (Eph. 2:8-9)

#2 Works nullify grace! ...at the present time there is a remnant chosen by grace. 6 And if by grace, then it CANNOT be based on works; if it were, grace would no longer be grace. (Romans 11:5-6; cf. Gal. 2:15-16 -- justified by faith in Christ; not works of the law)

#3 We didn't qualify for eternal life; No, He qualified us: ...giving joyful thanks to the Father, who HAS qualified you to share in the inheritance of his holy people in the kingdom of light. (Col. 1:12) [Do you see the PAST tense there -- "HAS qualified you" -- you seem to neglect too much of God's past tense actions & lean too heavily ONLY on either a present or future tense focus].

#4 Even considering future tense...what does Paul say? ...being confident of this, that he who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus. (Phil. 1:6)

18 posted on 02/07/2013 5:33:21 PM PST by Colofornian
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To: JoeProBono

One of my grandsons (age eight) has a bestest (his word) friend who is mormon.
I asked him if he knew what mormons beleive, and he said yes.
Oh, I said and what did your friend say. So my grandson went on to explain what his friend said. I asked him what he thought about that..........he started laughing and said, he is a good friend but he does not know Jesus and is really stupid to believe that junk.
What a smart boy, my grandson is.


19 posted on 02/07/2013 5:42:40 PM PST by svcw (Why is one cell on another planet considered life, and in the womb it is not.)
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To: Colofornian; Elsie
John 14:6

Viewing the King James Version. Click to switch to 1611 King James Version of John 14:6.

Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

IF, you really believe that, IF, you are strong in your conviction, you wouldn't need to disparage other beliefs.

You, are weak, study your own FAITH, REMOVE THE LOG.

20 posted on 02/07/2013 5:45:16 PM PST by Las Vegas Ron (Medicine is the keystone in the arch of socialism)
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To: svcw

21 posted on 02/07/2013 5:49:04 PM PST by JoeProBono (A closed mouth gathers no feet - Mater tua caligas exercitus gerit ;-{)
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To: Colofornian; GiovannaNicoletta; F15Eagle; .45 Long Colt; Buddygirl; Former Fetus; Bockscar; ...

Ping


22 posted on 02/07/2013 5:49:59 PM PST by WKB ( Remember "Bush Lied and People Died" Now it's "People died and Obama Lied")
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To: Las Vegas Ron

“IF, you really believe that, IF, you are strong in your conviction, you wouldn’t need to disparage other beliefs.”

It is amazing that Christ, Peter, Paul, etc. had your principle so very wrong!


23 posted on 02/07/2013 5:58:40 PM PST by aMorePerfectUnion (Gone rogue, gone Galt, gone international, gone independent. Gone.)
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To: Las Vegas Ron
I have studied my own faith, in depth. That is why I know your interpretation of the “remove the log” comment is misplaced.

There is far more to Christianity then what is now the “all paths are equal” hippie version of the faith that is being pushed by politically correct ministers in modern America this day and age.

24 posted on 02/07/2013 6:35:11 PM PST by ejonesie22 (8/30/10, the day Truth won.)
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To: Las Vegas Ron; aMorePerfectUnion; ejonesie22
IF, you really believe that, [re: John 14:6] IF, you are strong in your conviction, you wouldn't need to disparage other beliefs. You, are weak, study your own FAITH, REMOVE THE LOG.

(Well, by your own conclusion, then...since you accuse me of being "weak" in my convictions and having a "LOG" in my spiritual eyes...is that not already TWO "disparagements" you've sent my way just in your one post? And, therefore, if you are disparaging my beliefs, does that not then -- by your own conclusions -- mean that you are "weak" in your convictions and need to "remove the log"???)

Ron, you've committed a classic self-refutation.

IF, what you say is so, then no Christian has any right to say ANYTHING negative 'bout any other religion (even Satanism).

Oh, and btw, by your own confession of Las Vegas standards, that includes critics like you who come on board and start disparaging others' religious expressions...

25 posted on 02/07/2013 6:42:33 PM PST by Colofornian
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To: Las Vegas Ron; Colofornian; Elsie
IF, you really believe that, IF, you are strong in your conviction, you wouldn't need to disparage other beliefs.

You, are weak, study your own FAITH, REMOVE THE LOG.

Galatians 2:11 When Peter came to Antioch, I opposed him to his face, because he was clearly in the wrong.

It's not a sign of weakness to confront error face to face. It's an act of love.

26 posted on 02/07/2013 6:48:09 PM PST by metmom (For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore & do not submit again to a yoke of slavery)
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To: ejonesie22

The salvation of Mormons is no more difficult for God than that of any other unbeliever. . . .

_____________________________________________________________

Whenever I hear this kind of remark about Mormons I no longer trust the motive of the person making such a comment. Whatever you say about Mormons, they are not unbelievers.

I know a lot about mormons, likely much more than most of you. Mormons believe in Jesus Christ. They believe in the Jesus that was born of Mary, suffered under Pilot and rose from the dead after suffering and dying on the cross.

Mormons believe that there is no way to heaven except through Jesus Christ.

The way they come unto Jesus may be different than some but I have never met a more trusting in the Savior people than the Mormons. Mormons do not believe in works except in the same way that James in the New Testament does. “Show me your works and I’ll show you your faith”. “Faith without works is dead”.

I am reminded that those that had not done the things they were supposed to were kicked out of the early church. In at least one case a husband and wife were struck down dead for not giving “all” their possessions to the church after saying they had.

The Mormons require sacrifice, is that bad?

The Mormons require proof of worthiness to go to the temple just like the Catholics (are supposed to ) require proof of worthiness to take communion. I sure wish they did, there would be a lot of Democrat politicians that would no longer be Catholic.

We are all different. I personally do not think the Apostles, or Nician Creed makes you Christian. There are many people who can and do recite the Creed but will be going straight to Hell. For the first 50 years of the creed there was not strict obedience required to it. It really took 50 years for it to become the “law of the land”.

I think there will be a lot of Mormons in Heaven. We may all have a lot of surprises on the other side.


27 posted on 02/07/2013 7:01:53 PM PST by JAKraig (Surely my religion is at least as good as yours)
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To: JAKraig; ejonesie22; aimhigh; AmericanArchConservative; aMorePerfectUnion; annieokie; AnTiw1; ...

The Jesus Mormons believe in is not God Incarnate or virgin born. He was born of Mary, one of God’s many wives whom he had sex with. The Mormon Jesus is Lucifer’s half-brother.

They can say they believe in Jesus all they want, but if they don’t believe in the Jesus as presented in Scripture, that Jesus is not going to be able to save them.

Do you really have any idea how many of the people on these threads are former Mormon’s?

I HIGHLY doubt that you know more about Mormonism that someone who has been in it.


28 posted on 02/07/2013 7:14:49 PM PST by metmom (For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore & do not submit again to a yoke of slavery)
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To: Colofornian

I always love how irony and hypocrisy are roommates...


29 posted on 02/07/2013 7:26:54 PM PST by ejonesie22 (8/30/10, the day Truth won.)
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To: JAKraig; ejonesie22; metmom; All
I personally do not think the Apostles, or Nician Creed makes you Christian. There are many people who can and do recite the Creed but will be going straight to Hell.

What about those people who openly disparage these creeds?

It's one thing not to recite it; 'tis quite another to label them as "putrid" -- an "abomination" before God...and then to call 100% of those who "profess" Christ in non-Mormon sects as "corrupt."

You just can't get around the reality that 100% of TBMs...(true-believing Mormons) believe in the First Vision...that the above "entities" who supposedly appeared to Smith told them that these creeds were abominable and that the rest of us are "corrupt..."

The First Vision isn't wasting away in some obscure Mormon file somewhere; it's been enshrined as "Scripture" in the Pearl of Great Price ... republished literally millions of times by Lds...and translated and sent around the world.

Mormons are Christian creed-bashers, JAK...

30 posted on 02/07/2013 7:36:06 PM PST by Colofornian
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To: JAKraig; ejonesie22; metmom; All
The Mormons require sacrifice, is that bad?

(Well, we know for sure it was in the the 1850s, 1860s, etc. when Brigham Young required church members to be victimized by either agreeing to have their blood shed for perceived sins vs. "the brethren..." or, more often, when these victims themselves didn't agree with Brother Young's preachment of blood atonement...yet were imposed upon by Young's henchmen...Jesus Christ shed His blood for us, thank you; and no Mormon needed to have their blood shed as "atonement" for their own sins...How does all of this apply to contemporary Mormons??? Well, I have yet to hear of a single active temple Mormon openly condemn Brigham as a false prophet for teaching this).

31 posted on 02/07/2013 7:41:27 PM PST by Colofornian
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To: JAKraig

I never made that comment, and you are correct, they are not unbelievers, they very much believe in what they are told, or believe in keeping the deception going depending on their role.

Your missive misses on very salient point, no matter how many times the Mormons speak of the name Jesus, by their own scripture it is not the same as the Christ of the Christian faith. So by those standards, the ones that count they are not following Christ either by their own choice or through deception by the very faith they support. So what the believe is wrong. Rather simple really.

If you know so much about the Mormon faith and understand Christianity you would know this, for it is very clear. The one thing Las Vegas Ron got right, no one gets to Father except through him. The correct him.

Of course the most interesting thing in all of your posts over the years is that if memory serves your spouse in LDS. You speak very highly of them and seem to take issue with those who say their believes are incorrect, which of course means you think they are valid. I know I have asked this to no avail before, but why are you not LDS yourself. It would lend far more “umph” to your argument if you would put your faith where your keyboard is...


32 posted on 02/07/2013 7:43:05 PM PST by ejonesie22 (8/30/10, the day Truth won.)
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To: JAKraig

I never made that comment, and you are correct, they are not unbelievers, they very much believe in what they are told, or believe in keeping the deception going depending on their role.

Your missive misses on very salient point, no matter how many times the Mormons speak of the name Jesus, by their own scripture it is not the same as the Christ of the Christian faith. So by those standards, the ones that count they are not following Christ either by their own choice or through deception by the very faith they support. So what the believe is wrong. Rather simple really.

If you know so much about the Mormon faith and understand Christianity you would know this, for it is very clear. The one thing Las Vegas Ron got right, no one gets to Father except through him. The correct him.

Of course the most interesting thing in all of your posts over the years is that if memory serves your spouse in LDS. You speak very highly of them and seem to take issue with those who say their believes are incorrect, which of course means you think they are valid. I know I have asked this to no avail before, but why are you not LDS yourself. It would lend far more “umph” to your argument if you would put your faith where your keyboard is...


33 posted on 02/07/2013 7:43:25 PM PST by ejonesie22 (8/30/10, the day Truth won.)
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To: JAKraig
The Mormons require proof of worthiness to go to the temple just like the Catholics (are supposed to ) require proof of worthiness to take communion.

Wow that's a new one on me. The Catholic decides for himself whether or not he or she can take communion "worthily". The LDS member must submit himself to a committee who checks his membership status, checks the treasury to make sure he has been giving 10% of his income to the Church and not smoking or drinking or going out in public without putting on his magic underwear. He must submit himself to a barrage of embarrassing questions about his personal life and affirm that Joseph Smith is a true Prophet of God and that the LDS Church is the Only True Church on the face of the planet in order to earn the privilege of going into the temple and having his private parts washed by some Temple helper.

Obviously you don't know enough about either Catholicism or Mormonism to judge either.

Don't compare Catholicism with Mormonism. They are not merely two different churches they are two different Religions.

34 posted on 02/07/2013 7:46:12 PM PST by P-Marlowe (There can be no Victory without a fight and no battle without wounds.)
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To: JAKraig

New Agers believe in Jesus too...

Some of them have a Jesus for their spirit guide...

But they are just like the Mormons

They are not Christians...


35 posted on 02/07/2013 7:48:56 PM PST by Tennessee Nana
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To: JAKraig

Based on the first few comments you made here, I would say you know nothing of momornism or Christianity.
The mormon jesus was conceived by Mary having physical sex with a god.
The mormon jesus is a half brother of satan.
The mormon jesus is not sufficient for salvation.
The mormon jesus is second to Joseph Smith.
The mormon jesus is not pay the price on the cross but in the garden.
momornism teach that Joseph Smith is grater than their jesus.
mormonism teaches that jesus is not sufficient for salvation.
mormonism teaches salvation must be worked for.
mormonism teaches that god was once a man.
mormonism teaches multi-gods.
When mormons say jesus they are not talking about the Biblical Jesus.


36 posted on 02/07/2013 9:30:55 PM PST by svcw (Why is one cell on another planet considered life, and in the womb it is not.)
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To: Colofornian

This article is the best you’ve posted in my memory.

I wish that it could serve as a guide for discussion for all on FR.


37 posted on 02/07/2013 10:59:22 PM PST by D-fendr (Deus non alligatur sacramentis sed nos alligamur.)
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To: JAKraig; william clark
Here's something borrowed from Freeper William Clark, illustrating how one can have faith in 'a' Christ but not the true Savior Christ:

"I always like to use the analogy of Jim Caviezel [In Mel Gibson's 'The Passion of The Christ']. Like the Mormon Jesus, he dressed the part, spoke the same words (in the original language, no less), and was referred to as Jesus Christ within a specific context, but it makes all the difference in the world whether one worships and depends upon him for their salvation or the genuine article."

38 posted on 02/08/2013 12:07:55 AM PST by MHGinTN (Being deceived can be cured.)
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To: Elsie

I do not understand what you mean by this: / But I am not smart enough to determine which is which..


Who will be included in salvation and who will not..
If you know... well... God Bless You.. if not... God Bless you anyway...
I like things simple.. What is... “IS” and what isn’t..... “Isn’t”..


39 posted on 02/08/2013 12:17:40 AM PST by hosepipe (This propaganda has been edited to include some fully orbed hyperbole..)
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To: Las Vegas Ron
IF, you really believe that, IF, you are strong in your conviction, you wouldn't need to disparage other beliefs.

You, are weak, study your own FAITH, REMOVE THE LOG.

Oh?

IF one knows a bit more of the BIBLE other than a verse or two then...



 
Acts 17:18-19
 18.  A group of Epicurean and Stoic philosophers began to dispute with him. Some of them asked, "What is this babbler trying to say?" Others remarked, "He seems to be advocating foreign gods." They said this because Paul was preaching the good news about Jesus and the resurrection.
 19.  Then they took him and brought him to a meeting of the Areopagus, where they said to him, "May we know what this new teaching is that you are presenting?
 
Acts 18:11
    So Paul stayed for a year and a half, teaching them the word of God.
 
 
 
 
 
Romans 15:4
 For everything that was written in the past was written to teach us, so that through endurance and the encouragement of the Scriptures we might have hope.
 
 
Romans 16:17
   I urge you, brothers, to watch out for those who cause divisions and put obstacles in your way that are contrary to the teaching you have learned. Keep away from them.
 
 
1 Corinthians 4:17
   For this reason I am sending to you Timothy, my son whom I love, who is faithful in the Lord. He will remind you of my way of life in Christ Jesus, which agrees with what I teach everywhere in every church.
 
 
1 Corinthians 11:2
 2.  I praise you for remembering me in everything and for holding to the teachings,  just as I passed them on to you.
 
 
Ephesians 4:14-15
 14.  Then we will no longer be infants, tossed back and forth by the waves, and blown here and there by every wind of teaching and by the cunning and craftiness of men in their deceitful scheming.
 15.  Instead, speaking the truth in love, we will in all things grow up into him who is the Head, that is, Christ.
 
 
2 Thessalonians 2:15
   So then, brothers, stand firm and hold to the teachings  we passed on to you, whether by word of mouth or by letter.
 
 
2 Thessalonians 3:6
  In the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, we command you, brothers, to keep away from every brother who is idle and does not live according to the teaching  you received from us.
 
 
1 Timothy 1:3-4
 3.  As I urged you when I went into Macedonia, stay there in Ephesus so that you may command certain men not to teach false doctrines any longer
 4.  nor to devote themselves to myths and endless genealogies. These promote controversies rather than God's work--which is by faith.
 
 
1 Timothy 1:7
  They want to be teachers of the law, but they do not know what they are talking about or what they so confidently affirm.
 
 
1 Timothy 2:7
   And for this purpose I was appointed a herald and an apostle--I am telling the truth, I am not lying--and a teacher of the true faith to the Gentiles.
 
 
1 Timothy 4:1-2
 1.  The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons.
 2.  Such teachings come through hypocritical liars, whose consciences have been seared as with a hot iron.
 
 
1 Timothy 4:6
   If you point these things out to the brothers, you will be a good minister of Christ Jesus, brought up in the truths of the faith and of the good teaching that you have followed.
 
 
1 Timothy 4:11
  Command and teach these things.
 
 
1 Timothy 6:3-5
 3.  If anyone teaches false doctrines and does not agree to the sound instruction of our Lord Jesus Christ and to godly teaching,
 4.  he is conceited and understands nothing. He has an unhealthy interest in controversies and quarrels about words that result in envy, strife, malicious talk, evil suspicions 
 5.  and constant friction between men of corrupt mind, who have been robbed of the truth and who think that godliness is a means to financial gain.
 
 
2 Timothy 1:13
  What you heard from me, keep as the pattern of sound teaching, with faith and love in Christ Jesus.
 
 
 2 Timothy 2:15-17
 15.  Do your best to present yourself to God as one approved, a workman who does not need to be ashamed and who correctly handles the word of truth.
 16.  Avoid godless chatter, because those who indulge in it will become more and more ungodly.
 17.  Their teaching will spread like gangrene.
 
 
2 Timothy 3:16-17
 16.  All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness,
 17.  so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.
 
 
 2 Timothy 4:3-4
  3.  For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear.
  4.  They will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths.
 
 
Titus 1:11
   They must be silenced, because they are ruining whole households by teaching things they ought not to teach--and that for the sake of dishonest gain.
 
 
Titus 2:1
  You must teach what is in accord with sound doctrine.
 
 
Titus 2:15
  These, then, are the things you should teach. Encourage and rebuke with all authority. Do not let anyone despise you.
 
 
 Hebrews 13:9
 Do not be carried away by all kinds of strange teachings.
 
 
 2 Peter 2:1-3
 1.  But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them--bringing swift destruction on themselves.
 2.  Many will follow their shameful ways and will bring the way of truth into disrepute.
 3.  In their greed these teachers will exploit you with stories they have made up. Their condemnation has long been hanging over them, and their destruction has not been sleeping.
 
 
2 John 1:10
  If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not take him into your house or welcome him.



40 posted on 02/08/2013 4:10:49 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Las Vegas Ron
Click to switch to 1611 King James Version of John 14:6.

People in Spain and Germany and France have NEVER used the KJV - no matter WHAT 'version' has been created.

A few Americans (and perhaps other ENGLISH speaking people) have turned the KJV into an idol: something that CANNOT possibly be wrong or inaccurate in their mind; not realizing the Hebrew, Greek texts that underly the translation that is revered so much.

41 posted on 02/08/2013 4:14:10 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: JAKraig
Mormons believe that there is no way to heaven except through Jesus Christ.

Thank's for showing the Reader's Digest version of MORMONism that it wants to present to the unsuspecting world.


 

"He (Joseph Smith) is the man through whom God has spoken... yet I would not like to call him a savior, though in a certain capacity he was a god to us, and is to the nations of the earth, and will continue to be."
 - Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses 8:321
 
 
"You call us fools; but the day will be, gentlemen and ladies, whether you belong to this Church or not, when you will prize brother Joseph Smith as the Prophet of the Living God, and look upon him as a god..."
- Herber C. Kimball, Journal of Discourses 5:88
 
 
"If we get our salvation, we shall have to pass by him [Joseph Smith]; if we enter our glory, it will be through the authority he has received. We cannot get around him [Joseph Smith]"
- (as quoted in 1988 Melchizedek Priesthood Study Guide, p. 142)
 
 
There is "no salvation without accepting Joseph Smith. If Joseph Smith was verily a prophet, and if he told the truth...no man can reject that testimony without incurring the most dreadful consequences, for he cannot enter the kingdom of God"
- Joseph Fielding Smith, Doctrines of Salvation, vol. 1, p.190
 
 
"I tell you, Joseph holds the keys, and none of us can get into the celestial kingdom without passing by him. We have not got rid of him, but he stands there as the sentinel, holding the keys of the kingdom of God; and there are many of them beside him. I tell you, if we get past those who have mingled with us, and know us best, and have a right to know us best, probably we can pass all other sentinels as far as it is necessary, or as far as we may desire. But I tell you, the pinch will be with those that have mingled with us, stood next to us, weighed our spirits, tried us, and proven us: there will be a pinch, in my view, to get past them. The others, perhaps, will say, If brother Joseph is satisfied with you, you may pass. If it is all right with him, it is all right with me. Then if Joseph shall say to a man, or if brother Brigham say to a man, I forgive you your sins, "Whosoever sins ye remit they are remitted unto them;" if you who have suffered and felt the weight of transgression—if you have generosity enough to forgive the sinner, I will forgive him: you cannot have more generosity than I have. I have given you power to forgive sins, and when the Lord gives a gift, he does not take it back again."
 - Orson Hyde, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 6, p.154-155
 
 
 
"It is because the Lord called Joseph Smith that salvation is again available to mortal men.... If it had not been for Joseph Smith and the restoration, there would be no salvation,"
 - Bruce McConkie, Mormon Doctrine, p. 396, 670
 


They succeeded in killing Joseph, but he had finished his work.
He was a servant of God, and gave us the Book of Mormon.
He said the Bible was right in the main, but, through the translators and others, many precious portions were suppressed, and several other portions were wrongly translated; and now his testimony is in force, for he has sealed it with his blood.
As I have frequently told them, no man in this dispensation will enter the courts of heaven, without the approbation of the Prophet Joseph Smith, Jun.
Who has made this so?
Have I?
Have this people?
Have the world?
No; but the Lord Jehovah has decreed it.
If I ever pass into the heavenly courts, it will be by the consent of the Prophet Joseph.
If you ever pass through the gates into the Holy City, you will do so upon his certificate that you are worthy to pass.
Can you pass without his inspection?
No; neither can any person in this dispensation, which is the dispensation of the fulness of times.
In this generation, and in all the generations that are to come, everyone will have to undergo the scrutiny of this Prophet.
They say that they killed Joseph, and they will yet come with their hats under their arms and bend to him; but what good will it do them, unless they repent?
They can come in a certain way and find favor, but will they?
 Brigham Young,

--JOURNAL OF DISCOURSES, vol. 8, p. 224

42 posted on 02/08/2013 4:18:15 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: JAKraig
Mormons do not believe in works except in the same way that James in the New Testament does. “Show me your works and I’ll show you your faith”. “Faith without works is dead”.

This is demostratably not true!

WORKs are the very thing that ARE required for a 'true' MORMON to get and retain a valuable Temple Recommend - without which a 'mormon' will NOT attain the highest level of 'heaven' that MORMONism describes.


 

Temple Recommend Questions



1 Do you have faith in and a testimony of God the Eternal Father, His Son Jesus Christ, and the Holy Ghost?

2 Do you have a testimony of the Atonement of Christ and of His role as Savior and Redeemer?

3 Do you have a testimony of the restoration of the gospel in these the latter days?

4 Do you sustain the President of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints as the Prophet, Seer, and Revelator and as the only person on the earth who possesses and is authorized to exercise all priesthood keys? Do you sustain members of the First Presidency and the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles as prophets, seers, and revelators? Do you sustain the other General Authorities and local authorities of the Church?

5 Do you live the law of chastity?

6 Is there anything in your conduct relating to members of your family that is not in harmony with the teachings of the Church?

7 Do you support, affiliate with, or agree with any group or individual whose teachings or practices are contrary to or oppose those accepted by the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints?

8 Do you strive to keep the covenants you have made, to attend your sacrament and other meetings, and to keep your life in harmony with the laws and commandments of the gospel?

9 Are you honest in your dealings with your fellowmen?

10 Are you a full-tithe payer?

11 Do you keep the Word of Wisdom?

12 Do you have financial or other obligations to a former spouse or children? If yes, are you current in meeting those obligations?

13 If you have previously received your temple endowment:

Do you keep the covenants that you made in the temple?
Do you wear the garment both night and day as instructed in the endowment and in accordance with the covenant you made in the temple?

14 Have there been any sins or misdeeds in your life that should have been resolved with priesthood authorities but have not been?

15 Do you consider yourself worthy to enter the Lord's house and participate in temple ordinances?

43 posted on 02/08/2013 4:22:12 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: JAKraig
In at least one case a husband and wife were struck down dead for not giving “all” their possessions to the church after saying they had.

Is THIS what MORMONism has taught you??


The BOOK says:

Acts 5:3

But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back part of the price of the land?


44 posted on 02/08/2013 4:25:45 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Colofornian
What about those people who openly disparage these creeds?

What do you mean?

Folks like MORMONs???



Questions put to Joseph Smith: "'Do you believe the Bible?' [Smith:]'If we do, we are the only people under heaven that does, for there are none of the religious sects of the day that do'. When asked 'Will everybody be damned, but Mormons'? [Smith replied] 'Yes, and a great portion of them, unless they repent, and work righteousness." (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 119).
Joseph Smith: "for the teachers of religion of the different sects understood the same passages of scripture so differently as to destroy all confidence in settling the question by an appeal to the Bible" (from Pearl of Great Price 1:12). "What is it that inspires professors of Christianity generally with a hope of salvation? It is that smooth, sophisticated influence of the devil, by which he deceives the whole world" (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p.270).
 
 
 
Brigham Young stated this repeatedly: "When the light came to me I saw that all the so-called Christian world was grovelling in darkness" (Journal of Discourses 5:73); "The Christian world, so-called, are heathens as to the knowledge of the salvation of God" (Journal of Discourses 8:171); "With a regard to true theology, a more ignorant people never lived than the present so-called Christian world" (Journal of Discourses 8:199); "And who is there that acknowledges [God's] hand? ...You may wander east, west, north, and south, and you cannot find it in any church or government on the earth, except the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints" (Journal of Discourses , vol. 6, p.24); "Should you ask why we differ from other Christians, as they are called, it is simply because they are not Christians as the New Testament defines Christianity" (Journal of Discourses 10:230).
 
 
 
Orson Pratt proclaimed: "Both Catholics and Protestants are nothing less than the 'whore of Babylon' whom the Lord denounces by the mouth of John the Revelator as having corrupted all the earth by their fornications and wickedness. Any person who shall be so corrupt as to receive a holy ordinance of the Gospel from the ministers of any of these apostate churches will be sent down to hell with them, unless they repent" (The Seer, p. 255).
 
 
 
Orson Pratt also said: "This great apostasy commenced about the close of the first century of the Christian era, and it has been waxing worse and worse from then until now" (Journal of Discourses
, vol.18, p.44) and: "But as there has been no Christian Church on the earth for a great many centuries past, until the present century, the people have lost sight of the pattern that God has given according to which the Christian Church should be established, and they have denominated a great variety of people Christian Churches, because they profess to be ...But there has been a long apostasy, during which the nations have been cursed with apostate churches in great abundance" (Journal of Discourses , 18:172).
 
 
President John Taylor stated: "Christianity...is a perfect pack of nonsense...the devil could not invent a better engine to spread his work than the Christianity of the nineteenth century." (Journal of Discourses , vol. 6, p.167); "Where shall we look for the true order or authority of God? It cannot be found in any nation of Christendom." (Journal of Discourses , 10:127).
 
 
 
James Talmage said: "A self-suggesting interpretation of history indicates that there has been a great departure from the way of salvation as laid down by the Savior, a universal apostasy from the Church of Christ". (A Study of the Articles of Faith, p.182).
 
 
 
President Joseph Fielding Smith said: "Doctrines were corrupted, authority lost, and a false order of religion took the place of the gospel of Jesus Christ, just as it had been the case in former dispensations, and the people were left in spiritual darkness." (Doctrines of Salvation, p.266). "For hundreds of years the world was wrapped in a veil of spiritual darkness, until there was not one fundamental truth belonging to the place of salvation ...Joseph Smith declared that in the year 1820 the Lord revealed to him that all the 'Christian' churches were in error, teaching for commandments the doctrines of men" (Doctrines of Salvation, vol. 3, p.282).
 
 
 
More recent statements by apostle Bruce McConkie are also very clear: "Apostasy was universal...And this darkness still prevails except among those who have come to a knowledge of the restored gospel" (Doctrines of Salvation, vol 3, p.265); "Thus the signs of the times include the prevailing apostate darkness in the sects of Christendom and in the religious world in general" (The Millennial Messiah, p.403); "a perverted Christianity holds sway among the so-called Christians of apostate Christendom" (Mormon Doctrine, p.132); "virtually all the millions of apostate Christendom have abased themselves before the mythical throne of a mythical Christ whom they vainly suppose to be a spirit essence who is incorporeal uncreated, immaterial and three-in-one with the Father and Holy Spirit" (Mormon Doctrine, p.269); "Gnosticism is one of the great pagan philosophies which antedated Christ and the Christian Era and which was later commingled with pure Christianity to form the apostate religion that has prevailed in the world since the early days of that era." (Mormon Doctrine, p.316).
 
 
 
President George Q. Cannon said: "After the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints was organized, there were only two churches upon the earth. They were known respectively as the Church of the Lamb of God and Babylon. The various organizations which are called churches throughout Christendom, though differing in their creeds and organizations, have one common origin. They all belong to Babylon" (Gospel Truth, p.324).
 
 
President Wilford Woodruff stated: "the Gospel of modern Christendom shuts up the Lord, and stops all communication with Him. I want nothing to do with such a Gospel, I would rather prefer the Gospel of the dark ages, so called" (Journal of Discourses , vol. 2, p.196).

45 posted on 02/08/2013 4:28:05 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Colofornian
Love Your Mormon Neighbors

Rings a bit hollow to me!

46 posted on 02/08/2013 4:28:55 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Colofornian
Well, I have yet to hear of a single active temple Mormon openly condemn Brigham as a false prophet for teaching this.

SLC 'mormons' have bigger things to worry about!


"Now if any of you will deny the plurality of wives, and continue to do so, I promise that you will be damned;

and I will go still further and say, take this revelation, or any other revelation that the Lord has given,

and deny it in your feelings, and I promise that you will be damned.

Brigham Young - JoD 3:266 (July 14, 1855)

47 posted on 02/08/2013 4:30:06 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: P-Marlowe
Don't compare Catholicism with Mormonism.

The STRUCTURE of them can, however, be compared.

After all, Catholics (RCC type) have the POPE that leads them.

MORMONs (the SLC type) have a Living Prophet® that lead them.




In conclusion let us summarize this grand key, these “Fourteen Fundamentals in Following the Prophet”, for our salvation depends on them.


1. The prophet is the only man who speaks for the Lord in everything.
2. The living prophet is more vital to us than the standard works.
3. The living prophet is more important to us than a dead prophet.
4. The prophet will never lead the church astray.
5. The prophet is not required to have any particular earthly training or credentials to speak on any subject or act on any matter at any time.
6. The prophet does not have to say “Thus Saith the Lord,” to give us scripture.
7. The prophet tells us what we need to know, not always what we want to know.
8. The prophet is not limited by men’s reasoning.
9. The prophet can receive revelation on any matter, temporal or spiritual.
10. The prophet may advise on civic matters.
11. The two groups who have the greatest difficulty in following the prophet are the proud who are learned and the proud who are rich.
12. The prophet will not necessarily be popular with the world or the worldly.
13. The prophet and his counselors make up the First Presidency—the highest quorum in the Church.
14. The prophet and the presidency—the living prophet and the First Presidency—follow them and be blessed—reject them and suffer.

I testify that these fourteen fundamentals in following the living prophet are true. If we want to know how well we stand with the Lord then let us ask ourselves how well we stand with His mortal captain—how close do our lives harmonize with the Lord’s anointed—the living Prophet—President of the Church, and with the Quorum of the First Presidency.

Ezra Taft Benson

(Address given Tuesday, February 26, 1980 at Brigham Young University)     http://www.lds.org/liahona/1981/06/fourteen-fundamentals-in-following-the-prophet?lang=eng


48 posted on 02/08/2013 4:34:31 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: P-Marlowe
Don't compare Catholicism with Mormonism.

The STRUCTURE of them can, however, be compared.

After all, Catholics (RCC type) have real fancy churchs all over the world.

MORMONs (the SLC type) have real fancy Temples all over the world.

49 posted on 02/08/2013 4:39:26 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: D-fendr
I wish that it could serve as a guide for discussion for all on FR.

After the Kum-by-ya singing and group hugging comes the discussion about theology.

THAT is what causes the fur to fly!

50 posted on 02/08/2013 4:41:18 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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