Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

RI records show inner workings of Legion of Christ
Associated Press ^ | February 15, 2013 | MICHELLE R. SMITH

Posted on 02/15/2013 3:55:57 PM PST by Lera

PROVIDENCE, Rhode Island (AP)

Documents detailing the dubious fundraising practices of a disgraced Roman Catholic religious order called the Legion of Christ were released to the public Friday, showing how the organization took control of an elderly woman's finances and persuaded her to bequeath it $60 million.

(Excerpt) Read more at 2.whlt.com ...


TOPICS: Catholic; Current Events
KEYWORDS: abuse; legionofchrist; maciel

1 posted on 02/15/2013 3:56:05 PM PST by Lera
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: Lera

The con artist priest involved with this was a pedophile , drug addict and plagiarist .

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marcial_Maciel


2 posted on 02/15/2013 4:09:00 PM PST by Lera (Proverbs 29:2)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Lera

This is so ridiculous. Benedict took over after Father Maciel was already under investigation. It was discovered he had a child that he was secretly caring for. Nothing else was proven. He was ridiculously charismastic, and managed to attract amazing lay Catholics to the church, and got them involved with many successful “apostolates”. That is why Pope John Paul recognized him, before he knew. Maciel was a good man who fell, like so many others. He died years ago and this is a typical example of how the media recycles old news to try to “scandalize” the church. We are all human and subject to sin. It is our fallen nature. Maciel is old news.


3 posted on 02/15/2013 4:10:55 PM PST by mgist
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Lera

article was just edited and cut short on the link above .
You can read the full article here .

http://www.sfgate.com/news/us/article/Docs-of-disgraced-Legion-of-Christ-released-in-RI-4282422.php


4 posted on 02/15/2013 4:13:37 PM PST by Lera (Proverbs 29:2)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: mgist

Maciel was expelled from two seminaries for reasons that have never been explained. He became a priest only when one of his uncles ordained him after private studies.[8]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marcial_Maciel

No this is not a good man who fell , this is a con artist that got in and no one kicked him out when they should have at the first sign . Fact is that this con artist brought in lots of money to the church so they ignored that he was a problem from the beginning . Oh and they still have not kicked him out they just hid him away from the public.


5 posted on 02/15/2013 4:19:37 PM PST by Lera (Proverbs 29:2)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: Lera

NY Slimes teaming up with a regional paper to sniff around county courthouses for any dirt to dig up against the Catholic Church. I’m shocked! You won’t see them pursue many freedom of information requests on unions, trial lawyers, etc.etc.etc.
Media filth.


6 posted on 02/15/2013 4:23:23 PM PST by crusader71
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Lera

Father Maciel was extremely charismatic, every institution has had somebody like him. Despite media lies, Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger was one of the few who rebuffed Maciel. Maciel died in 2008! Yes, he hurt many faith filled people. He was a monster. Why does the media endlessly recycle old news stories. Why are Catholics the acceptable whipping boys, of liberal princes?


7 posted on 02/15/2013 4:28:20 PM PST by mgist
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: mgist
Did you read the full article on the second link I posted (first one was edited and cut short after I posted it)


This is not a recycle of a news story . This is going to court right now so it is current news , doesn't matter if the guy is dead now . The family of the woman he swindled 60 million dollars from is taking it to court .


Why are Catholics the acceptable whipping boys, of liberal princes?

Whipping boy ? The guy was a drug addict a pedophile and a thief . Why are you trying to protect him ?

8 posted on 02/15/2013 4:45:29 PM PST by Lera (Proverbs 29:2)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: Lera

This my FRiends is how Soros and his evil like minded comrads have tried to hurt our church. NCR is NOT Catholic, they are “independent”, and funded by Soros. Despite the deceptive name, they are NOT Catholic, and simply function as agents of the father of deception.

“The publication is not connected to the Church itself and is independent. Promoting a progressive position, the NCR presents itself “as one of the few, if not the only truly independent, journalistic outlet for Catholics and others who struggle with the complex moral and societal issues of the day.”[2]”

http://ncronline.org/blogs/distinctly-catholic/conspiratorial-craziness


9 posted on 02/15/2013 4:51:20 PM PST by mgist
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Lera

I know the story of Father Maciel very well. The church was in turmoil over this. It happened many years ago. It is old news, they do the same thing with every horrible problem the church has ever had. Do you EVER hear “scandal” or “pedophpile” associated with homosexuals? Of course not, so these things that ocurred decades ago are front page news? Our church is under attack.

January 25, 2013 (LifeSiteNews.com) - The National Catholic Reporter, a newspaper renowned for its “liberal” editorial stance on numerous doctrinal and moral issues, should not advertise itself as Catholic, according to Bishop Robert Finn of Kansas City.

The headquarters of the Reporter (not to be confused with the National Catholic Register) are located in Bishop Finn’s diocese, putting the paper under his ecclesiastical authority.

Bishop Robert Finn

“I have received letters and other complaints about NCR from the beginning of my time here,” writes Bishop Finn in a new column published today in the diocesan newspaper. The column was published to coincide with the feast of St. Francis de Sales, considered the patron saint of journalists by the Catholic Church.

The bishop listed the editorial positions taken by NCR that officially condemn Catholic Church teaching, including “on the ordination of women, insistent undermining of Church teaching on artificial contraception and sexual morality in general, lionizing dissident theologies while rejecting established Magisterial teaching, and a litany of other issues.”

Bishop Finn pointed out that his predecessor, Bishop Charles Helmsin, had demanded that NCR remove the name “Catholic” from its name in the late sixties, a request that was ignored at the time.

“From my perspective, NCR’s positions against authentic Church teaching and leadership have not changed trajectory in the intervening decades,” said Bishop Finn.

Click “like” if you are PRO-LIFE!

The bishop also said that he has attempted to dialogue with the leadership of the newspaper, but to no avail.

“In light of the number of recent expressions of concern, I have a responsibility as the local bishop to instruct the Faithful about the problematic nature of this media source which bears the name ‘Catholic,’” concluded the bishop.

“While I remain open to substantive and respectful discussion with the legitimate representatives of NCR, I find that my ability to influence theNational Catholic Reporter toward fidelity to the Church seems limited to the supernatural level. For this we pray: St. Francis DeSales, intercede for us.”

http://www.lifesitenews.com/news/bishop-finn-national-catholic-reporter-should-not-call-itself-catholic/


10 posted on 02/15/2013 5:06:04 PM PST by mgist
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]

To: Lera

I thought the Legionaires were the best order in the Church and would bring great reform. I gave them $10 for a raffle one time and even got a book from them on the priesthood. It’s amazing how Marciel was able to fool everyone, even, I guess you could say, John Paul II.


11 posted on 02/15/2013 5:33:14 PM PST by MDLION ("Trust in the Lord with all your heart" -Proverbs 3:5)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: MDLION

No newbie Maciel was never about reform, and never pretended to be. He was Evangelical, charismatic, and as with all things God related, good things did happen. Our heavenly Father brought a lot of great people together. The church however, stopped anything related to Maciel that was not in accordaance with church teachings. That was yeara ago.


12 posted on 02/15/2013 6:00:04 PM PST by mgist
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 11 | View Replies]

To: Lera

Paul Crouch has a special appeal for those doing “estate planning.” There’s also Peter Poppoff, Binny Hin, Hal Lindsey and the rest of the current and former of the cast of TBN… those who use religion for profit.

Of course we should condemn these; but we should also be careful not to allow the media to lead us in their attacks against Christianity - the last bulwark against their agenda.


13 posted on 02/15/2013 11:48:17 PM PST by D-fendr (Deus non alligatur sacramentis sed nos alligamur.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]

To: Lera

“This is not a recycle of a news story . This is going to court right now so it is current news , doesn’t matter if the guy is dead now . The family of the woman he swindled 60 million dollars from is taking it to court .”

The media uses ANY excuse to scandalize the church. “Records unsealed” and that is another excuse to parade out every accusation and scandal that has already been beaten to death.

Father Maciel, was from Mexico. He was removed from service in 2006. He died in 2008, and so did the woman in Rhode Island, who never met Maciel in her life. There are many amazing priest and people in the Legion who do amazing work and service. As only God is able to do, he brought something good out of something founded by a very defective, deceptive, individual. I gladly give the legion money because they are not Maciel. They are accomplished, faith filled, hard working people who were also hurt and disappointed. I don’t know of any group that has offered more in service to families like The Legions of Christ. They are supportive with bible study, homeschooling, Kids for Jesus, Chastity programs, spiritual retreats for families, modesty fashion clubs for girls, the list goes on and on.

The bible gives us many examples of great things that come from loathesome places and people.

John 1:46
46
But Nathanael said to him, “Can anything good come from Nazareth?” Philip said to him, “Come and see.”

The media is used as a tool by the princes of darkness to attack Christians. They do the same thing to the Tea Party.


14 posted on 02/16/2013 3:26:47 AM PST by mgist
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]

To: mgist
Dear mgist,

You said:

“Maciel was a good man who fell, like so many others.”

Then you said:

“Maciel died in 2008! Yes, he hurt many faith filled people. He was a monster.”

You'll need to make up your mind.

There are those of us, devout Catholics and all, who think your second statement is closer to the truth, and frankly, that the Legion of Christ and Regnum Christi should have been disbanded. So many lies.

The LC and RC mirrored the monstrousness of their founder. I remember when the LC tried to invade our parish. I was approached by a Regnum Christi couple (although they didn't identify themselves as RC at the time), fellow homeschoolers. They asked if I would recommend to our pastor to permit something in our parish called the “Conquest Club.” Because of the great respect I had for this family, I said I would do so.

I was told (lied to) that this was a lay-run group for boys from six or seven through high school, that it was mostly just to get boys together to play, have fun, socialize, and to hear a catechetical lesson once per week. I was NOT told that the lay people were all Regnum Chrisi and that the "club" was essentially a recruiting ruse for the Legion. I was NOT told that the purpose of the "club" was to pick and choose between young boys in our parish, excluding those not up to LC standards, and then to groom the select few for LC recruitment.

Within a couple of weeks, they were running this "club" out of our parish, with the sanction of the pastor, on my recommendation, when they started surreptitiously bringing in LC priests - without the pastor's permission, and without the knowledge or permission of either their parents or the pastor, to give formal spiritual direction to young boys as young as 9 years old. Alone, without the presence of other children or adults.

When I found out about this, I became very angry, I told the pastor about it, he threw the bums out on their ears. My wife and I in sorrow approached the RC couple whom we'd previously respected so much and asked why they used us to sneak these priests into our parish, to surreptitiously give “spiritual direction” to young children without even the knowledge of their parents. Why, we asked, did they not even inform the pastor that they were bringing their own priests in?

They replied to me, "We didn't think anyone would mind." Mind?? Are you kidding?!? Pastors have a right and a DUTY to know when other priests are coming into their parish to teach, to offer counseling, direction, possibly even sacraments. To fail to inform the pastor is truly scandalous. Most homeschool Catholics that I know are very careful about the religious formation of their children. We certainly were. To have someone sneak behind our backs to try to form our sons without our knowledge was treachery. Dirty, evil treachery.

Dirty, secretive, evil deeds like this only mirrored the evil of their founder.

We did a little digging and found that the RC and LC had mostly taken over our local homeschool co-op. We also found that LCs encouraged disharmony in marriages where one spouse was Regnum Christi and the other not.

I've met LC seminarians. This is a sensitive subject to me, as I've seen the results of young men who entered priestly formation with the LCs but ultimately who were judged, for one reason or other, unworthy of advancement. They often become young men unable to think for themselves, form their own judgments, make their own decisions.

Read the article for pete’s sake! The LC No. 2 didn't think it was at all necessary to expose Maciel after finding out that he was a pervert, a liar, a moral horror.

And then read the article about how they encouraged this old woman to give away her fortune of $60 million to this charlatan, this con man, this fatuous pus-filled enormity of a fraud, encouraging her in her belief that the archangel Gabriel had told her to do so!

Let me ask, do YOU think the archangel Gabriel had instructed her to give $60 million to this fraud??

I'm kinda having my doubts.

The National “Catholic” Reporter is fishwrap. That doesn't mean even a blind squirrel doesn't occasionally find an acorn.

Remember that in permitting the LC and RC to stay in business, Pope Benedict instructed the LC to eliminate the private vow of absolute obedience to and absolute avoidance of criticism of one's superiors, a vow that promoted secrecy and loyalty to Maciel over morality, decency and loyalty to the actual Bride of Christ.


sitetest

15 posted on 02/16/2013 6:46:16 AM PST by sitetest (If Roe is not overturned, no unborn child will ever be protected in law.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 12 | View Replies]

To: sitetest

I said Maciel was a monster. Meant to explain that many good deeds came from things he did, despite his obviously fallen nature. He was a broken man, under attack, and fell. All sin hurts ourselves and others. His abuse happened decades ago. Does the media still talk about Penn State? Does the media create a witch hunt against those involved in Penn State who were witnesses or recieved complaints? Of course not. Cardinal Benedict is the one who removed Maciel from service and some in the media are claiming that Maciel scandal is the reason for his retirement. Do you get the picture here? It is what they did to Bush, the Tea Party, Glen Beck and anybody or anything else who gets in the way of their agenda of darkness.


16 posted on 02/16/2013 5:53:05 PM PST by mgist
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 15 | View Replies]

To: mgist
Dear mgist,

“I said Maciel was a monster.”

Not far from the truth.

“Meant to explain that many good deeds came from things he did, despite his obviously fallen nature. He was a broken man, under attack, and fell.”

Oh, baloney. He wasn't a broken man, under attack. He was a conniving, scheming sociopath who'd been abusing his position and authority likely from the 1950s on, but was a consummate con man and got away with it up until the last couple of years of his life.

“His abuse happened decades ago.”

He was cavorting with his mistress up until the 2000s. That's abuse of his vows, of his supporters, of his donors, of the Church, the Bride of Christ, and of Christ, Himself.

” Does the media still talk about Penn State? Does the media create a witch hunt against those involved in Penn State who were witnesses or recieved complaints?”

Actually, yeah. Penn State has been in and out of the news just recently.

As to “witch hunts,” they may be justified if you're hunting a bona fide witch, which Maciel certainly was.

The problem is, mgist, is that certainly the lamestream media is going to use any stick to bludgeon the Church, but WORSE YET ARE THE MALEFACTORS WHO GIVE THEM SUCH A LARGE AND DAMAGING STICK AS MACIEL AND THE WHOLE LEGION OF CHRIST!

Certainly the enemies of God will attack the Church, but woe to those who give them the ammunition with which to do it!

If the Legion of Christ were sincere in their repentance for their crimes, they would openly, publicly repent of all the times they harmed people, as when they stole this woman's $60 million, or all the times they tried to invade parishes to steal the young boys of unsuspecting Catholic families, or all the marriages they damaged because one spouse was smart enough to smell the rats of the LC and RC trying to undermine their domestic church.

You think Maciel caused good things to be done. I've seen some of those “good deeds” up close and personal, and can personally attest that they were rotten fruit of a rotted, evil tree, the tree planted by that rotted, evil man, Maciel.

If you want to blame someone for the attack on Christ's Church by the media over these on-going scandals, blame Maciel and all his minions, blame those who covered up his crimes, those who stole from widows, who deceived innocent parents and children.

Blaming the evil, pagan media for feasting on the sins of the Church is like blaming vultures for eating carrion.


sitetest

17 posted on 02/16/2013 7:20:52 PM PST by sitetest (If Roe is not overturned, no unborn child will ever be protected in law.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 16 | View Replies]

To: sitetest

If your boss in Tokyo commits a crime, are you and the thousands of others in the company, most of whom never even met him - guilty?

The Legions of Christ are priests, lay men and women, who wanted to dedicate themselves to God. They were devasted when this news came out in 2010. In this country people are innocent until proven guilty. You have used Maciel to slander a group with hundreds of priests, thousands of seminarians, and at one point 70,000 members of Regnum Christi from all over the world, most of whom never met Maciel. They are people’s daughters, sons, brothers, sisters, parents who I feel safe to assume are better people that you or I.

There is a trial in RI court now over donations. Nobody has been convicted, and no verdicts have been made. The woman died in 2008, and findings of Maciel’s investigation didn’t come out until 2010. They are claiming she should have known? Your accusation of theft is at this point a LIE.

No, the media hasn’t gone after the witnesses, and those who recieved complaints in PENN State. There are still pending trials and none of them make headline news. That scandal happened in 2011 and it has been forgotten. If Penn State had been the Catholic church, they would have accused everyone who ever worked and associated with Sadusky of being complicit. The Director of the school would have become a household name. Headlines with sinister sounding details would still be circulating. People like you would feel entitled to slander the entire University population with no conscience of the fact that they could possibly be innocent human beings.

I hope you are never unfairly accused, insulted, or judged in your life. It’s not nice. My only point is that I think we have to be fair to the innocent and good people who do want to serve God, and it should be painfully obvious to everyone that the church is under a horrible attack.


18 posted on 02/17/2013 12:52:53 AM PST by mgist
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 17 | View Replies]

To: mgist
Dear mgist,

I didn't say every single RC and LC is “guilty,” but rather that the organization as a whole was corrupt and should have been disbanded. I also stated that I encountered the lies, deceptions, and evil-doings of ordinary LCs and RCs “on the ground,” and this is evidence of organizational corruption. I said that this arose out of the inherent evils in the organization, and I stand by that.

I also pointed out that the private vow formerly made by RCs and LCs to their superiors has been eliminated by the express instruction of the Vatican, and has been implicated as a corrupting and evil influence on the organization.

None of these are lies.

As for “slander[ing]” group with Maciel, well, he was the leader of the bunch, and the fact is that the organization as a whole repeatedly covered up for him over a period of decades. One can say that they were unknowing, ignorant, stupid dupes of Maciel, but hey, I'm not sure that's such a great defense.

“There is a trial in RI court now over donations. Nobody has been convicted, and no verdicts have been made. The woman died in 2008, and findings of Maciel’s investigation didn’t come out until 2010. They are claiming she should have known? Your accusation of theft is at this point a LIE.”

No, the plaintiffs are claiming that if she HAD known that Maciel was a lying fraud, an abuser, a con man, that she wouldn't have given $60 million to the organization. I think that's a pretty safe bet. The plaintiffs could further assert that it is clear that she did NOT see the angel Gabriel, as Gabriel wouldn't have instructed her to give $60 million to an organization headed by such an evil man, and using at least part of those proceeds to further his own evil actions. They could further assert that the LCs involved in the whole transaction should have seen that 90 year-old widows giving away $60 million at the behest of angels are probably not in their right mind, and that it is, at the very best, extremely uncharitable, and at the worst, outright theft and abuse of the mentally ill, to take their money from them.

My accusation of theft is not a lie at all. That the LCs took the money is not in dispute. I don't need a court to tell me that what they did was a violation of the moral law, and that violation was of the Sixth Commandment.

“No, the media hasn’t gone after the witnesses, and those who recieved complaints in PENN State.”

I don't know what your problem is here. The theft of the $60 million is currently before a court of law. It's news. The media is reporting it. Why wouldn't they? It's an accusation of fraud, it's about a lot of money, and it ties into an organization with a corrupt history. Sounds like a good news story to me.

As for Penn State, things died down for a little bit, but then the family issued their report trying to clear the name of Joe Paterno, and it was all back in the news, again. That's how this news thing works - an event happens, the media report it. They rehash what has gone before.

“If Penn State had been the Catholic church, they would have accused everyone who ever worked and associated with Sadusky of being complicit.”

Actually, different folks have made different constellations of accusations. Ask the Paterno family about it. Ask the former president of Penn State about being accused (and being charged with crimes).

As well, each step of the way, these events have been reported in the national media: when the original scandal blew up; when accusations started making their way up the organizational chart; when Paterno was fired; when Spanier was let go; when Spanier was charged with crimes; when the Paterno family report was issued.

“I hope you are never unfairly accused, insulted, or judged in your life.”

Too late. It's happened before and will likely happen again. Few of us escape such events in life.

But I'm not sure who you think is being unfairly accused, insulted or judged. The Vatican itself harshly judged the Legion of Christ, forcing it to change a fundamental practice of the organization in order to continue on. The founder was corrupt to the bone. In the present case, the LC took $60 million from a little old lady who thought Gabriel was telling her to give all her money away to a man who was evil and corrupt. If you think the folks who did that are innocent, that's sad.

Finally, I don't think I've ever made the claim that all LCs or RCs are bad people. I've merely pointed out that the news media coverage they've received may be motivated by anti-Catholic bias, but that it is the Legion itself that has provided the weapons and ammunition to the Church's enemies by which they attack the Legion.


sitetest

19 posted on 02/17/2013 6:33:14 AM PST by sitetest (If Roe is not overturned, no unborn child will ever be protected in law.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 18 | View Replies]

To: sitetest
Thank you for acknowledging anti Catholic media bias.

You are slandering an entire movement of human beings, most of whom have never met Maciel. Realize that PENN State took place in the US in 2011, in one location. Many people witnessed abuse and many people recieved complaints. None of those people became the subject of media headlines. In every case of abuse, there is never an immediate reaction from witnesses, people don't know how to deal with these things. That's reality.

The Legionares are located all over the world. Maciel was from Mexico, not the US. Maciel was taken out of service in 2006, by Benedict who's legacy is being tarnished by deceptive associations being made. The Legionares were investigated and cleared of wrong doing. They were told to change certain practices that weren't aligned with the church, so what. They are comprised almost 100,000 individuals/families who were horrified that such a faith filled movement was founded by such a man. The Legion was so incredibly successfull because of these people who only wanted to serve God. The woman who donated the money did so out of free will. That is what people do, and it isn't a crime to receive donations.

Steal young boys, and destroy marriages? Where did you read that, the fake National Catholic Reporter funded by Soros? Or was it some anonymous blogger who had a story to tell? I know many of these people personally, they are amazing people, truly God's people, and they were very hurt by what happened. Now your saying that these families, also victims of betrayal from a man they never knew, should repent for their crimes, of stealing boys, money, and destroying marriages? My friends who have helped me become a better person through their examples are now criminals who stole $60 million donation?

Not nice at all. May God forgive all of us who don't know what we do.

Wisdom 1:11 Therefore guard against profitless grumbling, and from calumny* withhold your tongues; For a stealthy utterance will not go unpunished, and a lying mouth destroys the soul.

"If the Legion of Christ were sincere in their repentance for their crimes, they would openly, publicly repent of all the times they harmed people, as when they stole this woman's $60 million, or all the times they tried to invade parishes to steal the young boys of unsuspecting Catholic families, or all the marriages they damaged because one spouse was smart enough to smell the rats of the LC and RC trying to undermine their domestic church."

20 posted on 02/17/2013 9:22:46 AM PST by mgist
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 19 | View Replies]

To: mgist
Dear mgist,

“You are slandering an entire movement of human beings, most of whom have never met Maciel.”

The only one doing any slandering is you of me. ;-)

I'm reporting what I've personally known, and I'm expressing the view that it is perfectly reasonable to report on a current court case involving accusations of $60 million of fraud, etc.

I'm also stating the fact that the Vatican found it necessary to change a fundamental practice of the organization that, in large part, led to its corruption.

With regard to Penn State, not sure why you're so obsessed, but your statements here are false. The fact is that a number of the witnesses of been the subject of headlines. Maybe you just haven't been paying attention, or maybe you're trying to say something else and not expressing it well.

“The Legionares are located all over the world. Maciel was from Mexico, not the US.”

And yet, the corruption has been evident here in the United States. I related to you an incident of moral turpitude IN MY OWN PARISH, which is some thousands of miles away from Mexico.”

“Maciel was taken out of service in 2006,...”

Yes, a mere seven years ago, after decades and decades of abuse. You have said that this is all "old news" (although the current court case is actually CURRENT news), and all the evil things happened decades ago. But that's not true. The fact is, it's less than a decade since Maciel was caught in the act.

“...by Benedict who's legacy is being tarnished by deceptive associations being made.”

Not by me. In fact, I could readily interpret your bringing this up in the context of our conversation as an attempt to further smear and slander me.

“The Legionares were investigated and cleared of wrong doing.”

This is contradicted by your next sentence:

“They were told to change certain practices that weren't aligned with the church, so what.”

The practices they were forced to change were inherently damaging and corrupting. And you say, “so what”?? Wow. There is little to be said to someone so callous toward the harm done by these folks.

“Steal young boys, and destroy marriages? Where did you read that, the fake National Catholic Reporter funded by Soros?”

First, I didn't say, "destroy marriages," I said "encouraged disharmony in marriages" and "damaged marriages." Please stop slandering me. I didn't need to read it anywhere. I saw it with my own eyes. So, who am I going to believe, you, or my lyin’ eyes?? LOL.

“Now your saying that these families, also victims of betrayal from a man they never knew, should repent for their crimes, of stealing boys, money, and destroying marriages?”

I was personally betrayed by a Regnum Christi couple, one whom I previously held in great admiration and respect. How much were they victim? How much were they victimizer? I don't know. I'd guess at least some of each. I mean, heck, I assume they had free will, moral agency. Thus, they chose to lie to me, chose to cover up relevant facts to me, to my pastor, to the families of the young children they tried to help ensnare.

But I imagine that their RC and LC superiors told them to do it, and having swallowed, hook, line and sinker, the practice of absolutely not criticizing (and therefore questioning) one’s superiors, they believed they were morally obligated to deceive me, my wife, my pastor, and all the families of our parish.

But I can't look into their hearts and figure out their actual culpability. I can only observe that what they DID, their actual BEHAVIOR, was gravely evil, immoral, and blameworthy.

“My friends who have helped me become a better person through their examples are now criminals who stole $60 million donation?”

Where did I say that everyone in the LC stole the $60 million? I said the LC AS AN ORGANIZATION stole it. Which they did. Which is why the ORGANIZATION is subject to suit over it.

“Wisdom 1:11 Therefore guard against profitless grumbling, and from calumny* withhold your tongues; For a stealthy utterance will not go unpunished, and a lying mouth destroys the soul.”

This is the last resort of Catholics who are guilty or who are covering up for the guilty. For years, I've been very careful not to calumniate folks in the hierarchy. For years, even with the LC, even when I saw them doing evil things, I held my tongue.

And for decades upon decades upon decades, many in the hierarchy (and in the LC) have ABUSED ordinary Catholics like me, KNOWING OUR CARE AND SOLICITUDE in these matters, and KNEW THEY COULD GET AWAY WITH ABUSE AFTER ABUSE, CRIME AFTER CRIME, EVIL AFTER EVIL, because we ordinary Catholics try so hard not to speak evil against them.

I would say to myself, “Even if it's true, is it not the sin of detraction to publicize these sins and crimes? Even if it's true, is it necessary to say it?”

Well, I'd think that ANY CATHOLIC WITH A BRAIN would realize after the scandals and cover-ups and scandals and cover-ups, the stupidity and gross negligence of over 2/3 of the men who were bishops through that grotesque period, and the absolute criminality of a few of them, that ANY TIME WE KNOW OF SERIOUS INTERPERSONAL WRONGDOING OF A HIERARCH - FROM DEACON TO CARDINAL, IT IS AN ABSOLUTE MORAL NECESSITY TO EXPOSE HIM!

Because, let's face it, the last half-century has taught us nothing if we have not learned that these men are, like most of us, moral mediocrities, and are not to be trusted to clean up their own acts, or the acts of those other hierarchs who are in their charge.


sitetest

21 posted on 02/17/2013 10:36:52 AM PST by sitetest (If Roe is not overturned, no unborn child will ever be protected in law.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 20 | View Replies]

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson