Skip to comments.In Defense of the Papacy: 9 Reasons True Christians Follow the Pope
Posted on 02/22/2013 5:43:18 PM PST by NYer
click here to read article
Papal Infallibility: A Symbolic, Yet Problematic, Term
Essays for Lent: Papal Infallibility
Did Martin Luther Act Infallibly in Defining What Books Belong in the Bible?
Radio Replies Second Volume - Infallibility
Catholic Biblical Apologetics: The Charism of Infallibility: The Magisterium
Catholic Biblical Apologetics: The Charism of Truth Handling: Infallibility
Radio Replies First Volume - Infallibility
Docility (on Catholic dogma and infallibility)
Beginning Catholic: Infallibility: Keeping the Faith [Ecumenical]
Papal Infallibility [Ecumenical]
Peter & Succession (Understanding the Church Today)
Pope: may all Christians recognize true meaning of Peters primacy
THE PRIMACY OF THE SUCCESSOR OF PETER IN THE MYSTERY OF THE CHURCH
Pope St. Leo the Great and the Petrine Primacy
The Epiphany of the Roman Primacy
THE PRIMACY OF THE SUCCESSOR OF PETER IN THE MYSTERY OF THE CHURCH [Ratzinger]
I have not found anything in the Bible or teachings of Jesus that there is “one true Church”, if so they would have named it. There is also nothing in the Bible that gives one or some human beings more religious authority than others.
Human beings are sinners. The goal is to try to be better. If we are pretending that leaders of a church are more moral than we are, we are off course. If we teach that prophets or “saints” are holier than we are, we have gone off the reservation of what Jesus was teaching us.
Church leaders, whatever the title, are teachers and messengers. It is not about them, they are frail, sin-laden humans just as we are. The focus is the message: “Jesus Saves”. Anything else is a distraction.
The pomp and circumstances aren’t needed. The golden domes, the palaces, the wealth are distractions. Who are they trying to impress? Christians should not be any more impressed than they would be a Televangelist and his private jet.
“Saints” have no power to listen or answer prayers or intercede or bring a message to Jesus, they are certainly not necessary Biblically. Jesus-God can hear our prayers, we don’t need 10,000 Saints dressed as USPS employees to deliver them. The idea that an earthly ‘authority’ (not existent Biblically) can dictate to God who is a “Saint” is ridiculous.
A personal walk with Jesus is just that, no intermediaries are needed ever.
Having said all that, I am usually the among first ones to stick up for the Catholics when the liberals and media attack them. I am always calling for these liberal faux “Catholic” organizations and groups to be ex-communicated and told to stop using that word.
I understand that on the vast majority of issues we are allies and I also do consider them Christian.
It is amazing that your response to child sexual abuse being widespread and knowingly covered up by bishops and priests - and that there is rampant homosexuality - is to point elsewhere, as if that makes it neutral. No, it is always sinful.
If it is sinful, clean your house, instead of trying to demean Christians that follow Christ, instead of Rome.
However, having done the keyword search in the NT of the KJV, I find multiple times when the Apostles tell believers to follow them, or even to follow the Church:
1 Corinthians 11:1
Be ye followers of me, even as I also am of Christ.
Acts 13:43 Converts follow Paul & Barnabas
1 Corinthians 4:16 Paul saying "follow me" again
1 Thessalonians 1:6 "Be followers of US, and of the Lord
1 Thessalonians 2:14 They became "followers of the churches of God which in Judaea are in Christ Jesus"
I could go on and on -- many more citations -- but I won't weary you. Or weary myself: besides, I've got to go to bed.
This doesn't focus on the Papacy by name, but it does directly speak about the necessity of Apostolic leadership in the Church. Bottom line: follow the guy that's following the Lord.
” Not all christians are christians... “ - PopePipus I...
You are mistaken. Do you understand how the Church pulled those Diana/Athena/Semiramis worshipers into the fold? That was a long time ago...and God forgive them for their error...but...
I love Mary...but I also understand how She has been used to perpetuate the worship of the Queen of Heaven. Mary is not the Queen of Heaven.
Read some ancient history and get a grip on who is being worshiped.
Syncretism is where this whole Mary worship thing came from...not from God.
You are worshiping not Mary, but Semiramis.
She's a demon...good luck with that.
Was it Biblical when ruthless Roman emperors crowned themselves as Pope? Was it Biblical when the Holy Roman Empire had large armies?
Where in the Bible does Jesus announce that a living human called a “Pope” would run his terrestrial church?
There. So that there is no confusion. It was a comparison which was consistent with the idiom of the language at that time. But you knew that already.
God forgive you for that.
there is a major difference between a Baptist and a Baptizer....a baptizer is one who baptizes...as far as a denomination is concerned, a Baptist follows Mr. Smythe who in 1609 formed the Baptist denomination.
Why don’t we hear about it in Protestant churches?
At least the Catholic churches are out there in the news stories.
Or are the media at fault since they, like so many, dislike the Catholic Church, since the Catholic Church stands for the truth?
Find me “Pope” and “Catholic”
Nothing you cited changes anything.
Of course we are supposed to follow those who worship Jesus and spread his teachings. That doesn’t lead to let us create an earthly bureaucracy and call it infallible and appoint a human who will talk to Jesus for us (all of which does not comport to anything Jesus taught)
Opps, I thought you were arguing from the RC point of vies.
I misunderstood. Sorry.
**I have not found anything in the Bible or teachings of Jesus that there is one true Church**???
What Bible are you reading? The one that Luther changed?
“I am the Way, the Truth and the Life.”
“Unless you eat my fles and drink my blood you shall not have life everlasting.”
Millstone sellers should certainly follow Catholic clergy.
“one who baptizes...as far as a denomination is concerned, a Baptist follows Mr. Smythe who in 1609 formed the Baptist denomination. “
I would be shocked if you could find 1 Baptist in 100,000 that even knows that name, let alone “follows” him...Baptists follow Christ.
VERY TRUE!!!!...except when he speaks ex cathedra....then he is protected by the Holy Spirit from error.....not my idea, Christ's!!
“Why dont we hear about it in Protestant churches?”
I see stories regularly that an individual commits sexual sin. That person, when exposed, is fired. The catholic story has currency because of how many decades it spanned and for being systematically covered up by its leadership... All of whom should be in jail.
Jesus is the way, the truth and the life. Not the Pope, not the "Saints", not the prophets, not Mary, not the donkey he rode into Jerusalem on, and certainly not a physical church.
Unless you eat my flesh and drink my blood you shall not have life everlasting.
Jesus saves. Those who believe and follow his example will be saved. Where does it say that this offer is only valid at certain locations?
Jesus said those. How do you think that means anything besides what it means? Nothing in those quotes would support your statement.
God is Mighty...and mighty hard to comprehend.
Just as the U.S. has been breached ("the Taliban is inside the House"), the Catholic Church and the Protestant Churches have been breached.
Hang tough brethren and sistren (;0))...we are dealing with Satan "hisself."
Good luck to each of you...fight the valient fight!
And don't let the enemy divide us by our denominations.
Follow the Lord and stop the petty squabbles.
God Bless and God Speed!
How about the 144,000 redeemed in Revelation? Are those Catholics or Jews? John was the last living Apostle. Was he subject to Rome or a Pope? Any proof?
When you meet with others for Sunday worship, is your worship of the Lord diluted? Neither is mine when I worship with others as a corporate body.
If our minds and heart are not directed at Him and Him alone...aren't we diluting our worship.
Is your mind and heart directed to the congregation around you or to the Lord when you worship in church? I can worship the Lord in the presence of many others, just as I'm sure you can too.
He wants a direct and personal relationship with you...not via intermediaries standing between the Two of you.
If I ask you to pray for me, are you standing between me and Jesus? Are you interfering in my relationship with him? Of course not. We are sharing in the communion of saints (the church militant, the living church on earth). As Catholics we join the Church triumphant in heaven in just the same way. It's a union not an interference.
But in the end...isn't it just between you and Him?
In Hb 10:25 we are cautioned not to neglect communal worship. So no, I don't believe it's a "Jesus and me" thing as many other Christians do. (Very devout Christians, I might add. I am not slamming them. I just disagree with them.) I believe Jesus created his Church for a purpose. And that it is very much a community in worship together as described in Hb 12:22-24.
Peace be with you.
So why don’t you post the stories then?
Christianity did not end with the Crucufixation...in fact it actually began then....The "one true church" was indeed mentioned....."upon this Rock I will build My church"
and your concept of a "saint" is flawed....anyone who dies in the grace of God is a saint....you and I can be saints.....we will probably not be recognized by the church, but we will be saints nevertheless. Tha "named" saints are merely those whose lives have been outstanding enough to convince the church that they are in Heaven. It takes a little doing, nomination, a miracle or two attributed to you, and a life history justifying your canonization. Now, if the church declares that you have met these requirements....why would it not be proper to ask St, Peter, St paul et.al. to pray for us....they are in heaven and maybe they can help us!!!!
I’ve never posted any stories about these issues - ever.
Too bad. Where is the truth?
Should there be Baptists in jail for shielding perps too?
The problem of child sex abuse is systemic in our society. It's in every institution you can think of. Of course it's a greater outrage when it happens in any Christian setting. The Catholic Church deserves its black eye for the scandal. Unfortunately there are a lot of nonCatholics who don't even know (or if they do refuse to admit) that their own houses of worship aren't free of the pestilence either.
Peace be with you.
The church was not built on Peter, the church was built on Yashua, Jesus the Christ, the Son of the Living God...In the beginning was the Word, the Word was with God, the Word was God...
In the beginning was the Word: and the Word was with God: and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him: and without him was made nothing that was made. In him was life: and the life was the light of men. And the light shineth in darkness: and the darkness did not comprehend it. There was a man sent from God, whose name was John.
(John 1:1-6 DRB)
A man sent form God...John, not Peter...
There is a good reason to NOT do that. That was not the example of how Jesus taught the disciples to pray. Ever hear "Our Father who art in Heaven . . "? Jesus is our Example. We pray to God and nobody else. So when God asks you at the Judgement "You prayed to who???" You won't be ashamed.
the Catholic church is well over two thousand years old....2,000 years is a VERY long time.....during those years there were probably hundreds of scandals within the church....why did they happen????because the church is made up of human beings....poor dolts just like us...I am nos sin free and neither are you. That having been said, the church itself, not individual members, is protected from error bu the Holy Spirrit.....the pope, bishops, priests, altar boys, nuns....etc. can err and be sinful.....the Church can't!!.
“...except when he speaks ex cathedra....then he is protected by the Holy Spirit from error...”
Total Balderdash...Ratzinger, just to name one, a Nazi, a Hitler supporter, is protectec by the Holy Spirit? Get real...
** a Nazi, a Hitler supporter, is protectec by the Holy Spirit? Get real...**
Those are serious accusations/slander/calumny.
Care to provide proof?
you must learn to discern between the Church, and members of the church....a living human being...."you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build My church and the gates of Hell shall not prevail against it....I Will give you THE KEYS TO THE KINGDON OF HEAVEN....WHAT YOU SHALL LOOSE ON EARTH SHALL BE LOOSED IN HEAVEN, WHAT YOU SHALL BIND ON EARTH SHALL BE BOUND IN HEAVEN. good enough for me!
I'm sure it is. The real question is, is it good enough for God.
since 1609 they might....but they are following the wrong road!
12 What I mean is this: One of you says, I follow Paul; another, I follow Apollos; another, I follow Peter; still another, I follow Christ.
13 Is Christ divided? Was Paul crucified for you? Were you baptized in the name of Paul?
21 So then, no more boasting about human leaders! All things are yours, 22 whether Paul or Apollos or Peter or the world or life or death or the present or the futureall are yours, 23 and you are of Christ, and Christ is of God.
Paul Opposes Cephas
11 When Cephas came to Antioch, I opposed him to his face, because he stood condemned. 12 For before certain men came from James, he used to eat with the Gentiles. But when they arrived, he began to draw back and separate himself from the Gentiles because he was afraid of those who belonged to the circumcision group. 13 The other Jews joined him in his hypocrisy, so that by their hypocrisy even Barnabas was led astray.
14 When I saw that they were not acting in line with the truth of the gospel, I said to Cephas in front of them all, You are a Jew, yet you live like a Gentile and not like a Jew. How is it, then, that you force Gentiles to follow Jewish customs?
15 We who are Jews by birth and not sinful Gentiles 16 know that a person is not justified by the works of the law, but by faith in Jesus Christ. So we, too, have put our faith in Christ Jesus that we may be justified by faith in[d] Christ and not by the works of the law, because by the works of the law no one will be justified.
17 But if, in seeking to be justified in Christ, we Jews find ourselves also among the sinners, doesnt that mean that Christ promotes sin? Absolutely not! 18 If I rebuild what I destroyed, then I really would be a lawbreaker.
19 For through the law I died to the law so that I might live for God. 20 I have been crucified with Christ and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me. The life I now live in the body, I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me. 21 I do not set aside the grace of God, for if righteousness could be gained through the law, Christ died for nothing![e]
Describes this article.
"Those Who Start Their Own Church Vomit Poison"
Descriptive of this article.
"Those Who Start Their Own Church Follow the Voice of Satan"
"All Human Creatures Are Subject to the Pope"All Christians are subject to Jesus Christ, not a man.
Yet the denomination that is the subject of this post denies members of the true church of Jesus Christ (every soul that believes on Jesus and is born again and has a personal relationship with Jesus...as stated in the Bible as necessary--the universal church of the faithful) salvation:
As this is the official belief, this officially puts them outside of the universal church of the faithful, made up of every (human creature) born again Christian.
“The universal Church of the faithful is one outside of which none is saved.”
Pope Innocent III, ex cathedra, Fourth Lateran Council (1215 AD)
“We declare, say , define, and pronounce that it is absolutely necessary for the salvation of every human creature to be subject to the Roman Pontiff.”
Pope Boniface VIII, Unam Sanctam (1302 AD)
"You see, dearly beloved sons and venerable brothers, how much vigilance is needed to keep the disease of this terrible evil from infecting and killing your flocks."Wow how true, only applied internally rather than out to all Christians who are not members of the Pope's belief system
I see many Catholics posters saying they believe that those outside of their denomination can be saved Christians.
The popes disagree as can be seen from their quotes above.
The circle is drawn around the Catholic church from their centuries of teachings which they believe encircles the only true Christians, while in reality (there may be some in the Popes sect) they have separated themselves from the TRUE church of Jesus Christ.
I have attended a church that eventually seperated themselves from all others ('cause they weren't "good" enough), and when it got to that point I left to find a true Christian church that recognized what the church of Jesus Christ really is.
It's seems strange to me that people would stay in a demonination whose leaders teach things that do not accept.
Every chruch I have been a part of taught the Biblical definition of the church: Every Christian that is born again and has a personal relationship with Jesus Christ. Real personal. As the Bible says, Jesus is in me and I am in Jesus.
The bottom line is that if a denomination seperates themselves from every other Christian in the world, they are seperating themselves from True Christianity and His true church.
We declare, say , define, and pronounce that it is absolutely necessary for the salvation of every human creature to be subject to the Roman Pontiff.
Well, the Bible says we are subject to a Jewish King for our salvation, and I think I will stick with that, thanks very much.
Christ started the Catholic Church. All other denominations got their Bibles FROM the Catholic Church. Are you speaking foolishly?
Stick to the caucus threads then. Or, maybe you can start a thread on Baptists and invite others to chime in?
partially true...Protestants and others are guilty of the same offences...however, you can sue the Catholic Church as an entity...you cannot sue the Lutheran church as such. You might be able to sue the local congregation, but not the National church. The Catholics, however, are set up a little differently. One can sue the Archdiocese of New York for an action of one of its' priests in a parish within that Archdiocese. The Archdiocese has millions of dollars, and the local protestant congregation has a few thousand....that's the difference!
...Baptists follow Christ.There you have it aMorePerfectUnion, the road that Jesus Christ is on is the wrong road!
since 1609 they might....but they are following the wrong road!
It's the Pope's road that is important to some.
And has been for 2013 years.
Right, in fact, we’re commanded to leave even our mothers and fathers to follow Jesus. That’s about as strong a statement as could be made on the subject, since it gives permission for a Christian to ignore one of the ten commandments, if necessary, to serve the Lord.
That’s not saying a Christian can’t choose to follow the Pope, or any other pastor who is serving Christ, but if the Pope or anyone else commands something in opposition to Christ, we have every right to ignore it.
Well, he does have a special place on Earth at least, because the Vatican is a pretty sweet pad. Just saying.
“Christianity is not a new philosophy or new morality. We are Christians only if we encounter Christ... Only in this personal relationship with Christ, only in this encounter with the Risen One do we really become Christians...
Therefore, let us pray to the Lord to enlighten us, so that, in our world, he will grant us the encounter with his presence, and thus give us a lively faith, an open heart, and great charity for all, capable of renewing the
- Pope Benedict XVI, Vatican City, Sept. 3, 2008
Our knowledge of Jesus is in need above all of a living experience: Another person’s testimony is certainly important, as in general the whole of our Christian life begins with the proclamation that comes to us from one or several witnesses. But we ourselves must be personally involved in an intimate and profound relationship with Jesus.
- Pope Benedict XVI, Rome, October 4, 2006
Thus, the apostles’ adventure began as a gathering of persons who open to one another reciprocally. A direct knowledge of the Teacher began for the disciples. They saw where he lived and began to know him. They would not have to be heralds of an idea, but witnesses of a person. Before being sent to evangelize, they would have to “be” with Jesus (cf. Mark 3:14), establishing a personal relationship with him. With this foundation, evangelization is no more than a proclamation of what has been experienced and an invitation to enter into the mystery of communion with Christ (cf. 1 John 13).
- Pope Benedict XVI, March 22, 2006
He stresses a relationship with Christ all the time... whether in church, world youth days or addressing/writing to the seminarians.
the 144,00 is obviously a rhetorical number...God did not create the human race so that 144,000 could be saved....talk about a waste of time and effort!!!!
Err, so then, what else in the Bible is rhetorical?
Also, just so we’re clear, it does not say that only 144,000 people are saved.