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The problem here is that infants cannot fulfill the stated requirements of repentance and whole-hearted faith, (Acts 2:38; 8:36,37) and the Holy Spirit provides zero manifest examples of infant baptism (and description of whole family baptism infers hearing, nor do i see the limited correspondence to circumcision warranting paedobaptism).

And the act of baptism itself does not ex opere operato make one forgiven or born again, regardless of whether one can exercise faith, thus regeneration can precede baptism, as the heart is purified by faith (which baptism expresses) and appropriates justification, (Acts 10:43-47; 15:7-9; Rm. 4:3-8) out of a broken and contrite heart. (Ps. 34:18)

Thus those baptized as infants are yet in need of their “day of salvation,” at which time of believing they are to be baptized. The paedobaptised are told they already are Christians .

See here and extensive debate which follows:

1 posted on 02/24/2013 11:55:12 AM PST by daniel1212
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To: daniel1212

The Catholic church doesn’t look at infant baptism the same as it does baptism as a sign of salvation. Its equal in Baptist and other protestant churches (like the non-denominational church I attend) would be an infant dedication ceremony.


2 posted on 02/24/2013 11:57:34 AM PST by mnehring
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To: daniel1212; metmom; boatbums; caww; presently no screen name; smvoice; HarleyD; ...

Ping.

Other stories of interest:

http://christiannews.net/2013/02/06/jesus-feminism-women-assert-that-christ-teaches-feminism-to-his-church/

http://christiannews.net/2013/02/03/churches-cancel-services-for-super-bowl/

http://christiannews.net/2013/02/01/ugandan-pastor-arrested-chained-to-tree-by-police-for-giving-away-gospel-film-on-street/

http://christiannews.net/2013/02/23/evangelists-arrested-for-preaching-at-nj-train-station-still-facing-jail-time-as-trial-continues/

http://nation.foxnews.com/scott-lively/2013/01/11/anti-gay-pastor-sued-soros-funded-group-crimes-against-humanity#ixzz2LgBEZrNh


3 posted on 02/24/2013 11:57:53 AM PST by daniel1212 (Come to the Lord Jesus as a contrite damned+destitute sinner, trust Him to save you, then live 4 Him)
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To: daniel1212
The Presbyterian Church USA was reportedly the first to deliberate the move, followed by the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops....met with representatives from the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops last night to sign an ecumenical document agreeing to recognize each other’s baptisms.

Once again, 'man' saying what they 'think' which is opposite of what GOD SAYS. ....infants cannot fulfill the stated requirements of repentance and whole-hearted faith, (Acts 2:38; 8:36,37)

Preach it, Daniel!!

4 posted on 02/24/2013 12:18:10 PM PST by presently no screen name
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To: daniel1212

Gee, I wonder how all those jewish baby boys agreed to the covenant at 8 days old when they were circumcised?


5 posted on 02/24/2013 12:21:52 PM PST by vladimir998
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To: daniel1212

Do not forget that in the NT Book of Acts, WHOLE households were baptized and that DOES includes infants with the parents. So this should not be an issue.


10 posted on 02/24/2013 1:25:22 PM PST by Biggirl ("Jesus talked to us as individuals"-Jim Vicevich/Thanks JimV!)
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To: daniel1212

Since baptism is an outward expression of an inward event, an infant can not be baptized.
They can be dedicated, but not baptized.


11 posted on 02/24/2013 1:27:00 PM PST by svcw (Why is one cell on another planet considered life, and in the womb it is not.)
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To: daniel1212

That is why each year at Easter Catholics RENEW the promises made at their baptism, so that is “the day of salvation” that you mentioned.


12 posted on 02/24/2013 1:28:53 PM PST by Biggirl ("Jesus talked to us as individuals"-Jim Vicevich/Thanks JimV!)
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To: daniel1212

There are far more problems with the doctrines of the Catholic Church than just baptism. Just the fact that Protestants would be willing to sign ecumenical agreements with Rome should be warning flags to Protestants that they have left the reservation.

We should be asking ourselves, “Would Luther sign such an agreement?” If not, why not?


21 posted on 02/24/2013 2:33:55 PM PST by HarleyD
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To: zot

It will be interesting to see where this goes. My optomistic self is ‘its a start.’


25 posted on 02/24/2013 3:25:02 PM PST by GreyFriar (Spearhead - 3rd Armored Division 75-78 & 83-87)
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To: daniel1212

‘“The Catholic Church has long recognized the validity of Protestant baptisms in which the person was baptized in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit,” he explained. “In the last ten or fifteen years, however, there were concerns among Catholic bishops regarding Protestant baptisms in which different names were substituted for the Holy Trinity, or in which a method of sprinkling was used that did not achieve any flow of water on the skin.”’

Another argument in favor of staying with the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit(or Ghost) and not doing the “Creator, Redeemer, and Sustainer” routine.


27 posted on 02/24/2013 3:44:03 PM PST by ReformationFan
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To: daniel1212

One step closer to a one world religion?


29 posted on 02/24/2013 3:49:07 PM PST by CynicalBear (For I decided to know nothing among you except Jesus Christ and him crucified. 1 Corinthians 2:2)
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To: daniel1212

Hmmm, no discussion of the left wing of the Reformation churches (Anabaptists and the “nondenominational Evangelicals”) Which are by far the most vibrant and actively growing groups (and probably already a majority of Protestants in the US).


45 posted on 02/24/2013 4:51:19 PM PST by cookcounty
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To: daniel1212

I was baptized as an infant in the Roman Catholic Church but when I accepted Jesus Christ as my savior, after I understood the gospel of the grace of God, I was baptized again for what I consider the first, legitimate time. This was because I had personally received Jesus Christ and made a conscious decision to follow Him.


58 posted on 02/24/2013 6:46:16 PM PST by boatbums (God is ready to assume full responsibility for the life wholly yielded to Him.)
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To: daniel1212
The Common Agreement was signed last night in Austin, Texas by members of both the Presbyterian Church USA and the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops, as well as the Christian Reformed Church of North America, the Reformed Church of America and the United Church of Christ.
The PCUSA is the liberal wing of the Presbyterian church (they ordain ministers who deny the deity of Christ) and The Church of Christ has a lot of controversy surrounding it. They do not believe musical instruments should be used in church among other un-Biblical beliefs.

The Reform churches seem pretty straight forward Christian as far as I can see.

I don't see this as a great merging of Catholic and Protestant beliefs.

The majority of Protestant denominations are not included and the ones that are stray from Biblical Christianity.

59 posted on 02/24/2013 7:00:15 PM PST by Syncro ("So?" - Andrew Breitbart The King of All Media (RIP Feb 1, 1969 – Mar 1, 2012)
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