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Original Language of the Book of Mormon: Upstate New York Dialect, King James English, or Hebrew?
BYU Maxwell Institute ^ | 1994 | Royal Skousen

Posted on 02/24/2013 5:01:01 PM PST by Colofornian

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To: teppe

BTW, what is it in the Nicene Creed that is wrong.

I have asked that of Mormons before and gotten nothing.


41 posted on 02/25/2013 2:50:12 AM PST by ejonesie22 (8/30/10, the day Truth won.)
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To: teppe
Sounds a lot like the Book of Mormon to me.

Doesn't EVERYTHING?

42 posted on 02/25/2013 9:06:00 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: teppe
Discovered in 1890 by the Smithsonian Inst. and recently dated to 100 AD.

Do you REALLY wanna go here?

43 posted on 02/25/2013 9:07:14 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: ejonesie22
Oh indeed, lets check out the Bat Crazy forgery.

Only a HATEful bigot would leave out the middle word!

44 posted on 02/25/2013 9:08:24 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: ejonesie22
Oh indeed, lets check out the Bat Crazy forgery.

Only a HATEful bigot would leave out the middle word!

45 posted on 02/25/2013 9:11:40 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: ejonesie22


...and I am a MORMON!


46 posted on 02/25/2013 9:12:29 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: guyfromjrz
Its America, the Puritans came here to escape religious persucution.

Not quite...




 
 
 
Mayflower Compact
 
In the name of God, Amen. We, whose names are underwritten, the loyal subjects of our dread Sovereign Lord King James, by the Grace of God, of Great Britain, France, and Ireland, King, defender of the Faith, etc.

Having undertaken, for the Glory of God, and advancements of the Christian faith and honor of our King and Country, a voyage to plant the first colony in the Northern parts of Virginia, do by these presents, solemnly and mutually, in the presence of God, and one another, covenant and combine ourselves together into a civil body politic; for our better ordering, and preservation and furtherance of the ends aforesaid; and by virtue hereof to enact, constitute, and frame, such just and equal laws, ordinances, acts, constitutions, and offices, from time to time, as shall be thought most meet and convenient for the general good of the colony; unto which we promise all due submission and obedience.In witness whereof we have hereunto subscribed our names at Cape Cod the 11th of November, in the year of the reign of our Sovereign Lord King James, of England, France, and Ireland, the eighteenth, and of Scotland the fifty-fourth, 1620.

 
 
 

47 posted on 02/25/2013 9:14:04 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: guyfromjrz
I hope people feel the same way of the Catholicism we practice.
.
.
.
. A “elder” asked us if we are “investigating”. I politley said no. That was the end of it.

So; you're the kind of Catholic that'll send a person away without presenting the TRUE gospel of Jesus Christ.

I hope that 'elder' runs into someone that is not ASHAMED of the gospel; and will REBUKE the false teachings of MORMONism.

48 posted on 02/25/2013 9:16:38 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Colofornian
Ya know...one of bait & switch things that Lds missionaries engage in is to ask contacts to "pray about the Book of Mormon."

ALL: If you ever have an Lds missionary ask you to do that, ask them, "Which one?"

Ask THEM if they've prayed about qwhich parts of the KJV are UNTRUE.

That should raise their eyebrows!

Ask if they've 'prayed' to see if the D&C's are 'true' - the PGP as well; is IT 'true'.

49 posted on 02/25/2013 9:19:01 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: guyfromjrz
But hey, for me, whatever makes ya happy and it doesn’t affect me, live it up.

You're pitiful!

50 posted on 02/25/2013 9:19:54 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: guyfromjrz
I explained the Trinity vs the theme of unitarian.

Well; there's a START!!


 
Acts 17:18-19
 18.  A group of Epicurean and Stoic philosophers began to dispute with him. Some of them asked, "What is this babbler trying to say?" Others remarked, "He seems to be advocating foreign gods." They said this because Paul was preaching the good news about Jesus and the resurrection.
 19.  Then they took him and brought him to a meeting of the Areopagus, where they said to him, "May we know what this new teaching is that you are presenting?
 
Acts 18:11
    So Paul stayed for a year and a half, teaching them the word of God.
 
 
 
 
 
Romans 15:4
 For everything that was written in the past was written to teach us, so that through endurance and the encouragement of the Scriptures we might have hope.
 
 
Romans 16:17
   I urge you, brothers, to watch out for those who cause divisions and put obstacles in your way that are contrary to the teaching you have learned. Keep away from them.
 
 
1 Corinthians 4:17
   For this reason I am sending to you Timothy, my son whom I love, who is faithful in the Lord. He will remind you of my way of life in Christ Jesus, which agrees with what I teach everywhere in every church.
 
 
1 Corinthians 11:2
 2.  I praise you for remembering me in everything and for holding to the teachings,  just as I passed them on to you.
 
 
Ephesians 4:14-15
 14.  Then we will no longer be infants, tossed back and forth by the waves, and blown here and there by every wind of teaching and by the cunning and craftiness of men in their deceitful scheming.
 15.  Instead, speaking the truth in love, we will in all things grow up into him who is the Head, that is, Christ.
 
 
2 Thessalonians 2:15
   So then, brothers, stand firm and hold to the teachings  we passed on to you, whether by word of mouth or by letter.
 
 
2 Thessalonians 3:6
  In the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, we command you, brothers, to keep away from every brother who is idle and does not live according to the teaching  you received from us.
 
 
1 Timothy 1:3-4
 3.  As I urged you when I went into Macedonia, stay there in Ephesus so that you may command certain men not to teach false doctrines any longer
 4.  nor to devote themselves to myths and endless genealogies. These promote controversies rather than God's work--which is by faith.
 
 
1 Timothy 1:7
  They want to be teachers of the law, but they do not know what they are talking about or what they so confidently affirm.
 
 
1 Timothy 2:7
   And for this purpose I was appointed a herald and an apostle--I am telling the truth, I am not lying--and a teacher of the true faith to the Gentiles.
 
 
1 Timothy 4:1-2
 1.  The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons.
 2.  Such teachings come through hypocritical liars, whose consciences have been seared as with a hot iron.
 
 
1 Timothy 4:6
   If you point these things out to the brothers, you will be a good minister of Christ Jesus, brought up in the truths of the faith and of the good teaching that you have followed.
 
 
1 Timothy 4:11
  Command and teach these things.
 
 
1 Timothy 6:3-5
 3.  If anyone teaches false doctrines and does not agree to the sound instruction of our Lord Jesus Christ and to godly teaching,
 4.  he is conceited and understands nothing. He has an unhealthy interest in controversies and quarrels about words that result in envy, strife, malicious talk, evil suspicions 
 5.  and constant friction between men of corrupt mind, who have been robbed of the truth and who think that godliness is a means to financial gain.
 
 
2 Timothy 1:13
  What you heard from me, keep as the pattern of sound teaching, with faith and love in Christ Jesus.
 
 
 2 Timothy 2:15-17
 15.  Do your best to present yourself to God as one approved, a workman who does not need to be ashamed and who correctly handles the word of truth.
 16.  Avoid godless chatter, because those who indulge in it will become more and more ungodly.
 17.  Their teaching will spread like gangrene.
 
 
2 Timothy 3:16-17
 16.  All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness,
 17.  so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.
 
 
 2 Timothy 4:3-4
  3.  For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear.
  4.  They will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths.
 
 
Titus 1:11
   They must be silenced, because they are ruining whole households by teaching things they ought not to teach--and that for the sake of dishonest gain.
 
 
Titus 2:1
  You must teach what is in accord with sound doctrine.
 
 
Titus 2:15
  These, then, are the things you should teach. Encourage and rebuke with all authority. Do not let anyone despise you.
 
 
 Hebrews 13:9
 Do not be carried away by all kinds of strange teachings.
 
 
 2 Peter 2:1-3
 1.  But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them--bringing swift destruction on themselves.
 2.  Many will follow their shameful ways and will bring the way of truth into disrepute.
 3.  In their greed these teachers will exploit you with stories they have made up. Their condemnation has long been hanging over them, and their destruction has not been sleeping.
 
 
2 John 1:10
  If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not take him into your house or welcome him.



51 posted on 02/25/2013 9:20:43 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: teppe
... you know ... obselete like your Nicene Creed!


Here is MORMONism's own creed:
 
 

Articles of Faith

The Articles of Faith outline 13 basic points of belief of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
The Prophet Joseph Smith first wrote them in a letter to John Wentworth, a newspaper editor,
in response to Mr. Wentworth's request to know what members of the Church believed.
They were subsequently published in Church periodicals.
They are now regarded as scripture and included in the Pearl of Great Price.

 
THE ARTICLES OF FAITH
OF THE CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST OF LATTER-DAY SAINTS
History of the Church, Vol. 4, pp. 535—541
 
 

  1. We believe in God, the Eternal Father, and in His Son, Jesus Christ, and in the Holy Ghost.
  2. We believe that men will be punished for their own sins, and not for Adam's transgression.
  3. We believe that through the Atonement of Christ, all mankind may be saved, by obedience to the laws and ordinances of the Gospel.
  4. We believe that the first principles and ordinances of the Gospel are: first, Faith in the Lord Jesus Christ; second, Repentance; third, Baptism by immersion for the remission of sins; fourth, Laying on of hands for the gift of the Holy Ghost.
  5. We believe that a man must be called of God, by prophecy, and by the laying on of hands by those who are in authority, to preach the Gospel and administer in the ordinances thereof.
  6. We believe in the same organization that existed in the Primitive Church, namely, apostles, prophets, pastors, teachers, evangelists, and so forth.
  7. We believe in the gift of tongues, prophecy, revelation, visions, healing, interpretation of tongues, and so forth.
  8. We believe the Bible to be the word of God as far as it is translated correctly; we also believe the Book of Mormon to be the word of God.
  9. We believe all that God has revealed, all that He does now reveal, and we believe that He will yet reveal many great and important things pertaining to the Kingdom of God.
  10. We believe in the literal gathering of Israel and in the restoration of the Ten Tribes; that Zion (the New Jerusalem) will be built upon the American continent; that Christ will reign personally upon the earth; and, that the earth will be renewed and receive its paradisiacal glory.
  11. We claim the privilege of worshiping Almighty God according to the dictates of our own conscience, and allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how, where, or what they may.
  12. We believe in being subject to kings, presidents, rulers, and magistrates, in obeying, honoring, and sustaining the law.
  13. We believe in being honest, true, chaste, benevolent, virtuous, and in doing good to all men; indeed, we may say that we follow the admonition of Paul—We believe all things, we hope all things, we have endured many things, and hope to be able to endure all things. If there is anything virtuous, lovely, or of good report or praiseworthy, we seek after these things.

Joseph Smith


 

52 posted on 02/25/2013 9:22:12 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: teppe
the whole “Bat Creek” thing or the “and it came to pass” Mayan Glyph are just interesting stories that do not prove or disprove the book of Mormon.


 
MORMON
Chapter 6

The Nephites gather to the land of Cumorah for the final battles—Mormon hides the sacred records in the hill Cumorah—The Lamanites are victorious, and the Nephite nation is destroyed—Hundreds of thousands are slain with the sword. About A.D. 385.

1 And now I finish my record concerning the destruction of my people, the Nephites. And it came to pass that we did march forth before the Lamanites.

2 And I, Mormon, wrote an epistle unto the king of the Lamanites, and desired of him that he would grant unto us that we might gather together our people unto the land of Cumorah, by a hill which was called Cumorah, and there we could give them battle.

3 And it came to pass that the king of the Lamanites did grant unto me the thing which I desired. 

4 And it came to pass that we did march forth to the land of Cumorah, and we did pitch our tents around about the hill Cumorah; and it was in a land of many waters, rivers, and fountains; and here we had hope to gain advantage over the Lamanites.

5 And *when three hundred and eighty and four years had passed away, we had gathered in all the remainder of our people unto the land of Cumorah.

6 And it came to pass that when we had gathered in all our people in one to the land of Cumorah, behold I, Mormon, began to be old; and knowing it to be the last struggle of my people, and having been commanded of the Lord that I should not suffer the records which had been handed down by our fathers, which were sacred, to fall into the hands of the Lamanites, (for the Lamanites would destroy them) therefore I made this record out of the plates of Nephi, and hid up in the hill Cumorah all the records which had been entrusted to me by the hand of the Lord, save it were these few plates which I gave unto my son Moroni.

7 And it came to pass that my people, with their wives and their children, did now behold the armies of the Lamanites marching towards them; and with that awful fear of death which fills the breasts of all the wicked, did they await to receive them.

8 And it came to pass that they came to battle against us, and every soul was filled with terror because of the greatness of their numbers.

9 And it came to pass that they did fall upon my people with the sword, and with the bow, and with the arrow, and with the ax, and with all manner of weapons of war.

10 And it came to pass that my men were hewn down, yea, even my ten thousand who were with me, and I fell wounded in the midst; and they passed by me that they did not put an end to my life.

11And when they had gone through and hewn down all my people save it were twenty and four of us, (among whom was my son Moroni) and we having survived the dead of our people, did behold on the morrow, when the Lamanites had returned unto their camps, from the top of the hill Cumorah, the ten thousand of my people who were hewn down, being led in the front by me.

12 And we also beheld the ten thousand of my people who were led by my son Moroni.

13 And behold, the ten thousand of Gidgiddonah had fallen, and he also in the midst.

14 And Lamah had fallen with his ten thousand; and Gilgal had fallen with his ten thousand; and Limhah had fallen with his ten thousand; and Jeneum had fallen with his ten thousand; and Cumenihah, and Moronihah, and Antionum, and Shiblom, and Shem, and Josh, had fallen with their ten thousand each.

15 And it came to pass that there were ten more who did fall by the sword, with their ten thousand each; yea, even all my people, save it were those twenty and four who were with me, and also a few who had escaped into the south countries, and a few who had deserted over unto the Lamanites, had fallen; and their flesh, and bones, and blood lay upon the face of the earth, being left by the hands of those who slew them to molder upon the land, and to crumble and to return to their mother earth.

16 And my soul was rent with anguish, because of the slain of my people, and I cried:

17 O ye fair ones, how could ye have departed from the ways of the Lord! O ye fair ones, how could ye have rejected that Jesus, who stood with open arms to receive you!

18 Behold, if ye had not done this, ye would not have fallen. But behold, ye are fallen, and I mourn your loss.

19 O ye fair sons and daughters, ye fathers and mothers, ye husbands and wives, ye fair ones, how is it that ye could have fallen!

20 But behold, ye are gone, and my sorrows cannot bring your return.

21 And the day soon cometh that your mortal must put on immortality, and these bodies which are now moldering in corruption must soon become incorruptible bodies; and then ye must stand before the judgment-seat of Christ, to be judged according to your works; and if it so be that ye are righteous, then are ye blessed with your fathers who have gone before you.

22 O that ye had repented before this great destruction had come upon you. But behold, ye are gone, and the Father, yea, the Eternal Father of heaven, knoweth your state; and he doeth with you according to his justice and mercy.


 
 
Mormon 8:2
And now it came to pass that after the great and tremendous battle at Cumorah, behold, the Nephites who had escaped into the country southward were hunted by the Lamanites, until they were all destroyed.


53 posted on 02/25/2013 9:23:30 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: ejonesie22
I have asked that of Mormons before and gotten nothing.

Let me go out on a limb here and predict you'll get the same result in this thread.

54 posted on 02/25/2013 9:24:36 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Colofornian

When attempting to “understand” the Book of Mormon, one needs first to obtain a copy of “Secret History, a translation of Vor Tids Muhamed,” by John Ahmanson, translated by Gleason L. Archer, Moody Press, 1984, ISBN 0-0824-0277-1.

On page 95 of said volume begins a description of the true source of the Book of Mormon. One Solomon Spaulding had fallen on hard times, and had written a book in the years 1810 - 1812, in hopes of selling it to pay his debts, the title of which was “The Discovered Manuscript.”

The story was based on an idea that America’s early inhabitants were descended from the lost tribes of Israel, and gave a description of how they had traveled by land and sea to America under the leadership of Nephi and Levi.

Spaulding died and his unpublished manuscript was left in the possession of his wife who took it with her to live in Onandago county, N.Y. and had left it in a trunk with some of her late husband’s other manuscripts, and it was there that Joseph Smith acquired the text.

That is it; the origin of the Book of Mormon was a work of fiction that had never gotten published.


55 posted on 02/25/2013 10:12:18 AM PST by editor-surveyor (Freepers: Not as smart as I'd hoped they'd be)
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To: Colofornian
Joseph Smith claimed the language was "Reformed Egyptian" -- which nobody has heard of before

Well that is fairly easy to prove. Lets get an expert in ancient Egyptian language examine the tablets ...

Oh wait ...

56 posted on 02/25/2013 10:36:02 AM PST by dartuser (My firearm is not illegal ... its undocumented.)
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To: dartuser; Godzilla; Tennessee Nana; Utah Binger
Lets get an expert in ancient Egyptian language examine the tablets ...

No no NO! REFORMED Egyptian!



You see, one day, long ago; long before the Romans and the Greeks and the Hittites and the Philistines roamed the Earth - there was a young Egyptian boy - Yusef Shehata - who was running along the banks of the Nile one day; after escaping from the Teachers grasp.

He was so tired from having to learn to carve hieroglyphics into the student sandstone slabs everyday; working for perfection; perfection needed to be able to claim the title of Master Engraver of the Pharaoh.

"If ONLY there were an easier way!", he cried into the cobalt blue sky of the verdant valley: hundreds of miles long, but only a few thousand cubits wide.

Exhausted and exasperated, he sat on the bank; cooling his heels in the water while keeping a watchful eye for the crocs: Gods of the Waters. Yes; being consumed by one is a sure sign of blessing; but this day young Yusef did not feel so blessed; as his only burning was of his arches: not his busom.

Later, as he had recovered some strength; he climbed high into a palm tree to procure a prized coconut - one sure to be brimming with cool, delicious milk.

Reaching out to one, he tugged on it, only to find it secure. Tugging and yanking harder, he slipped and fell onto the sand below.

Cursing his luck (but noticing no actual physical harm) he looked upward to find his prize HAD come loose and was now a mere arms-length above his head.

Evening was nigh, as he regained consciousness, cracked open the coconut and drank his fill.

As he was preparing to leave for home (all the while devising yet another tale to explain his absence to his harried mother) two foreign visitors were suddenly by his side. They said they were a Father and Son - sent to Yusef in response to his earlier cry. They relayed a message to him to dig under the trunk of the tree to find a new system of writing: writing to reform the complicated language of the Nile, engraved on Golden Metal: the Metal of the GODS.


As in countless other days, Yusef's mother did not believe him and beat him as usual; sending him to bed without his supper of beloved camel stew: the Meal of the Peasants.

Unable to sleep; unbelieved by his family; sure to be severely punished by his Master - Yusef gathered his few belongings and fled silently in the night; down the river of his heritage and into the foreign land of the Jews - never to be heard from again...

57 posted on 02/25/2013 12:56:46 PM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: teppe; Colofornian
Checkout the Bat Creek Hebrew inscription. Discovered in 1890 by the Smithsonian Inst. and recently dated to 100 AD.

For starters teppe - according to the most popular lds bom location theory - they were limited to a small area in central america - not on Tennessee.

This artifact is even rejected by FAIR - were you aware of that Teppe???? Heres what they said -

'A forged item can tell us nothing about ancient America in general, or the Book of Mormon in particular. Any current source that uses the Bat Creek Stone as evidence should be treated with caution; its author(s) are not using the most up-to-date information. At the very least, it is premature to rely on the Bat Creek Stone as evidence of anything related to ancient America.'

http://en.fairmormon.org/Book_of_Mormon/Geography/Hoaxes/Bat_Creek_Stone

A hebrew inscription on a rock in the American Continent from 100 AD? ..... Sounds a lot like the Book of Mormon to me.

Nope, sound more like a poorly informed mormon grasping at straws for ANYTHING to substantiate their faith.

58 posted on 02/25/2013 1:09:54 PM PST by Godzilla (3/7/77)
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To: Elsie

But where’s your evidence that Yusef was the reformed Egyptian?


59 posted on 02/25/2013 1:48:01 PM PST by editor-surveyor (Freepers: Not as smart as I'd hoped they'd be)
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To: Godzilla

...and OLD straws at that!

They’d do better Grasping the Rod of Iron!!!


60 posted on 02/25/2013 1:50:57 PM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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