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My One Mass with Pope Benedict - It Brought Me into the Catholic Church!
Canterbury Tales ^ | February 28, 2013 | Dr. Taylor Marshall

Posted on 03/01/2013 5:51:13 AM PST by NYer

A photo from the Mass I attend with Pope Benedict

In 2006, when I was still an Episcopalian priest, Joy and I visited Rome. Intellectually we were coming to recognize that the Catholic Church was the true Church, but we needed the emotional push to bring the decision to fulfillment.

In Rome, we were able to take the Scavi tour underneath Saint Peter's Basilica. At the end of the tour, we saw the bones of Saint Peter. I prayed earnestly that I would soon enter into full communion with Saint Peter and his successor on earth, Pope Benedict XVI.

After the tour, the Belgian priest, who had been our tour guide, stayed behind and struck up a conversation with us. We had been so excited and impressed by the tour. When I told him that we were not Catholics, but that I was an Episcopalian priest, his face lit up. He was writing his dissertation in Rome on some ecumenical matter. 

Then he surprised us with a question: “Would you like to attend Holy Mass with the Pope this evening?” The answer to that question was obvious. The Belgian priest was pleased to make arrangements. We walked from the Scavi entrance on the south side of Saint Peter’s, across Saint Peter’s Square, and then up a staircase to the north. At the top were two Swiss Guards with pikes. The Belgian priest told us to wait there. He mumbled some Italian to the guards and disappeared.

A few minutes later he returned with two orange tickets, which were marked with that evening’s date and were issued by the Palazzo Apostolico Vaticano. The Belgian priest told us to return to Saint Peter’s an hour before the Mass with those tickets. We had a nice chat, and the priest went about his business. To my shame, I don’t know his name. (Father, if you're out there, let me know!)

That evening, my wife and I attended the Holy Mass of the Purification with Pope Benedict. At this particular Holy Mass the Holy Father recognized the various religious orders of the world. We were in line with hundreds of nuns, friars, and monks. We were clearly out of place—a married Episcopalian priest in a cassock with a pregnant wife. My dear! I hope we did not scandalize all those nuns.

The Holy Mass was glorious. It began in total darkness. Pope Benedict XVI entered the back doors with only a candle. From this candle was lit all the candles of the nuns, monks, and friars. For the whole Mass, we were near the bronze statue of Saint Peter. I could see the Holy Father clearly. I knew that His Holiness was the true successor of the Fisherman, and recalling that just that morning I had been deep underneath that altar at the bones of Saint Peter, the connection between the ministry of Saint Peter the First Pope and that of Benedict XVI the present Pope was made manifest right before my eyes.

When it came time for Holy Communion, I knew that I could not go forward to receive. Although the Basilica was now lit with glorious light and joy, my soul remained in the darkness.

I was not a Catholic. I was not in communion with the Holy Father. I was in schism. It was a sickening feeling. I was out of communion with the Vicar of Christ, and I knew in that moment that my relationship with Christ was impaired. I also knew what I had to do. I had to resign the Episcopalian priesthood and become a Catholic.


That Mass was one of the most important events in my life. When we got back from Rome, the process began. When I think of Pope Benedict, I'll always recall that Holy Mass on February 2, 2006 - a Holy Mass that changed my life forever. Viva Il Papa!


TOPICS: Catholic; Ecumenism; Mainline Protestant; Worship
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1 posted on 03/01/2013 5:51:17 AM PST by NYer
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To: netmilsmom; thefrankbaum; Tax-chick; GregB; saradippity; Berlin_Freeper; Litany; SumProVita; ...
Can't make it to Rome but want to take the tour - you can do a virtual tour at THIS LINK - Pilgrimage to the Tomb of St. Peter
2 posted on 03/01/2013 5:52:47 AM PST by NYer (“Beware the man of a single book.” - St. Thomas Aquinas)
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To: NYer

These are the feelings I have been having more and more - I watch in great expectation that a Great Defender of the Gospel of Jesus will be chosen and not a Great Compromiser. I truly believe the next Pope will be the last Pope. But, then Paul thought the end times were going to happen during his life, too. ;o)


3 posted on 03/01/2013 6:03:29 AM PST by Sioux-san
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To: NYer

Someone has to explain to me how the 15 promises below is part of the ‘true church’

15 Promises Our Lady gave for praying the Most Holy Rosary

1. Whoever shall faithfully serve Me by the recitation of the Rosary, shall receive signal graces.

2. I promise My special protection and the greatest graces to all who shall recite the Rosary.

3. The Rosary shall be a powerful armor against hell, it will destroy vice, decrease sin, and defeat heresies.

4. It will cause virtue and good works to flourish; it will obtain for souls the abundant mercy of God; it will withdraw the hearts of men from the love of the world and its vanities, and will lift them to the desire of eternal things. Oh, that souls would sanctify themselves by this means.

5. The soul which recommends itself to Me by the recitation of the Rosary, shall not perish.

6. Whoever shall recite the Rosary devoutly, applying himself to the consideration of its sacred mysteries, shall never be conquered by misfortune. God will not chastise him in His justice, he shall not perish by an unprovided death; if he be just he shall remain in the grace of God, and become worthy of eternal life.

7. Whoever shall have a true devotion for the Rosary shall not die without the Sacraments of the Church.

8. Those who are faithful in reciting the Rosary shall have during their life and at their death the light of God and the plenitude of His graces; at the moment of death they shall participate in the merits of the saints in paradise.

9. I shall deliver from purgatory, those who have been devoted to the Rosary.

10. The faithful children of the Rosary shall merit a high degree of glory in Heaven.

11. You shall obtain all you ask of Me by the recitation of the Rosary.

12. All those who propagate the holy Rosary shall be aided by Me in their necessities.

13. I have obtained from My Divine Son, that all the advocates of the Rosary shall have for intercessors, the entire celestial court during their life and at the hour of death.

14. All who recite the Rosary are My sons, and brothers of My only son Jesus Christ.

15. Devotion to My Rosary is a great sign of predestination.


4 posted on 03/01/2013 6:15:14 AM PST by delchiante
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To: delchiante
Private revelation (at best, if it's not just pious tradition).

Catholics are free to believe it or not. However, the Rosary is a meditation on the events of the lives of Jesus and Mary. How could that not be "a powerful armor against hell"? What better topic to contemplate?

5 posted on 03/01/2013 6:26:09 AM PST by Campion ("Social justice" begins in the womb)
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To: Campion

How can I square the last part of this with the Bible? I offer this Rosary for the purpose of knowing the Truth (?)and obtaining contrition and pardon for my sins(?)

Prayer Before the Rosary

Queen of the Holy Rosary, Thou didst deign to come to Fatima to reveal to the three shepherd children the treasures of grace hidden in the Rosary. Inspire my heart with a sincere love of this devotion, in order that by meditating on the Mysteries of our Redemption which are recalled in it, I may be enriched by its fruits and obtain peace for the world, the conversion of sinners and of Russia, and the graces which I ask of Thee in this Rosary. (Here mention your request.) I ask this for the greater glory of God, for Thine own honor, and for the good of souls, especially for my own. Amen.

I offer this Rosary for the purpose of knowing the Truth and obtaining contrition and pardon for my sins. Amen.


6 posted on 03/01/2013 6:43:30 AM PST by delchiante
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To: delchiante
Someone has to explain to me how the 15 promises below is part of the ‘true church’

The rosary is a devotion in honor of the Virgin Mary. It consists of a set number of specific prayers. First are the introductory prayers: one Apostles’ Creed (Credo), one Our Father (the Pater Noster or the Lord’s Prayer), three Hail Mary’s (Ave’s), one Glory Be (Gloria Patri).

The Apostles’ Creed is so called not because it was composed by the apostles themselves, but because it expresses their teachings. The original form of the creed came into use around A.D. 125, and the present form dates from the 400s. It reads this way:

"I believe in God, the Father Almighty, Creator of heaven and earth, and in Jesus Christ, his only Son, our Lord, who was conceived by the Holy Spirit, born of the Virgin Mary, suffered under Pontius Pilate, was crucified, died, and was buried. He descended into hell. The third day he arose again from the dead. He ascended into heaven and is seated at the right hand of the Father. From thence he shall come to judge the living and the dead. I believe in the Holy Spirit, the holy Catholic Church, the communion of saints, the forgiveness of sins, the resurrection of the body, and the life everlasting. Amen."

Most Protestants embrace the Apostles’ Creed without reluctance, seeing it as embodying basic Christian truths as they understand them.

The next prayer in the rosary—Our Father or the Pater Noster (from its opening words in Latin), also known as the Lord’s Prayer—is even more acceptable to Protestants because Jesus himself taught it to his disciples.

The next prayer in the rosary, and the prayer which is really at the center of the devotion, is the Hail Mary. Contrary to popular belief of non-catholics, the prayer is from scripture.

The prayer begins, "Hail Mary, full of grace, the Lord is with thee." This is nothing other than the greeting the angel Gabriel gave Mary in Luke 1:28 (Confraternity Version). The next part reads this way:

"Blessed art thou among women, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb, Jesus." This was exactly what Mary’s cousin Elizabeth said to her in Luke 1:42. The only thing that has been added to these two verses are the names "Jesus" and "Mary," to make clear who is being referred to. So the first part of the Hail Mary is entirely biblical.

The second part of the Hail Mary is not taken straight from Scripture, but it is entirely biblical in the thoughts it expresses. It reads:

"Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us sinners, now and at the hour of our death. Amen."

The fourth prayer found in the rosary is the Glory Be, sometimes called the Gloria or Gloria Patri. The last two names are taken from the opening words of the Latin version of the prayer, which in English reads:

"Glory be to the Father, and to the Son, and to the Holy Spirit. As it was in the beginning, is now, and ever shall be, world without end. Amen." The Gloria is a brief hymn of praise in which all Christians can join. It has been used since the fourth century (though its present form is from the seventh) and traditionally has been recited at the end of each Psalm in the Divine Office.

The purpose of praying the rosary is to meditate on a series of events in the life of Jesus Christ and look at Him through the eyes of Mary. When Catholics recite the twelve prayers that form a decade of the rosary, they meditate on the mystery associated with that decade.

It is the meditation on the mysteries that gives the rosary its staying power. The Joyful Mysteries are these: the Annunciation (Luke 1:26-38), the Visitation (Luke 1:40-56), the Nativity (Luke 2:6-20), the Presentation of Jesus in the Temple (Luke 2:21-39), and the Finding of the child Jesus in the Temple (Luke 2:41-51).

Then come the Sorrowful Mysteries: the Agony in the Garden (Matt. 26:36-46), the Scourging (Matt. 27:26), the Crowning with Thorns (Matt. 27:29), the Carrying of the Cross (John 19:17), and the Crucifixion (Luke 23:33-46).

The final Mysteries are the Glorious: the Resurrection (Luke 24:1-12), the Ascension (Luke 24:50-51), the Descent of the Holy Spirit (Acts 2:1-4), the Assumption of Mary into heaven (Rev. 12), and her Coronation (cf. Rev. 12:1).

With the exception of the last two, each mystery is explicitly scriptural. True, the Assumption and Coronation of Mary are not explicitly stated in the Bible, but they are not contrary to it, so there is no reason to reject them out of hand.

7 posted on 03/01/2013 6:43:43 AM PST by NYer (“Beware the man of a single book.” - St. Thomas Aquinas)
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To: delchiante
You don't have to. As I said, private revelation. Not required to be believed.

But why is praying for knowledge of the truth and contrition for sins contrary to the Bible?

8 posted on 03/01/2013 6:53:34 AM PST by Campion ("Social justice" begins in the womb)
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To: NYer

So the assumption and coronation aren’t in the bible? Good. That’s what I am finding too.. looks like just enough Jesus and a lot of Mary to get someone in trouble... now I am starting to understand how the idol worshipping command of the ten commandments in the Catholic church is implied and not written down at places like Boys town...


9 posted on 03/01/2013 6:55:16 AM PST by delchiante
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To: delchiante; Campion
How can I square the last part of this with the Bible?

See my post #7

the conversion of sinners and of Russia

I grew up during the Cold War. As a child, catholics were asked to pray for the conversion of Russia. During those years, churches were taken over by the government. Parishioners desperately tried to salvage precious sacramentals and risked their lives to hide these items in their homes or bury them in fields. It was forbidden to celebrate any form of worship. A network of priests was formed. They would travel by night to a particular village where they would say mass in that home. Oftentimes, that home had a safe room where the priest would be hidden should a neighbor tip off gov't officials.

Shortly after the Berlin Wall came down, communist Russia collapsed. Today churches are being restored and reconsecrated. This is the power of prayer!

10 posted on 03/01/2013 7:02:23 AM PST by NYer (“Beware the man of a single book.” - St. Thomas Aquinas)
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To: Campion

I am no bible scholar by any stretch but Jesus himself taught us how to pray and it didn’t start with ‘queen of the holy rosary’.. I never knew any of this until I received this rosary and instruction manual a few weeks ago from who I believe to be a good honorable Christian man.
I really am concerned that this stuff is more important to do for some than what Jesus did at the cross or at least a supplement to it...


11 posted on 03/01/2013 7:06:35 AM PST by delchiante
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To: delchiante; Campion
looks like just enough Jesus and a lot of Mary

Perhaps you missed the details posted in my previous post:

It is the meditation on the mysteries that gives the rosary its staying power. The Joyful Mysteries are these: the Annunciation (Luke 1:26-38), the Visitation (Luke 1:40-56), the Nativity (Luke 2:6-20), the Presentation of Jesus in the Temple (Luke 2:21-39), and the Finding of the child Jesus in the Temple (Luke 2:41-51).

Then come the Sorrowful Mysteries: the Agony in the Garden (Matt. 26:36-46), the Scourging (Matt. 27:26), the Crowning with Thorns (Matt. 27:29), the Carrying of the Cross (John 19:17), and the Crucifixion (Luke 23:33-46).

The final Mysteries are the Glorious: the Resurrection (Luke 24:1-12), the Ascension (Luke 24:50-51), the Descent of the Holy Spirit (Acts 2:1-4), the Assumption of Mary into heaven (Rev. 12), and her Coronation (cf. Rev. 12:1).

So you are suggesting that meditating on the Life of Jesus Christ is idol worship?

12 posted on 03/01/2013 7:09:09 AM PST by NYer (“Beware the man of a single book.” - St. Thomas Aquinas)
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To: delchiante; Campion
I am no bible scholar by any stretch but Jesus himself taught us how to pray and it didn’t start with ‘queen of the holy rosary’.. I never knew any of this until I received this rosary and instruction manual a few weeks ago from who I believe to be a good honorable Christian man.

What a beautiful gift, albeit disconcerting for someone who is not familiar with this form of meditative prayer.

I really am concerned that this stuff is more important to do for some than what Jesus did at the cross or at least a supplement to it...

On the contrary, the Sorrowful Mysteries actually place you at the foot of the cross. You are there with Mary and the Apostle John. If you are a parent, you can imagine the agony endured by Mary as she watched her Son endure the agonizing death of a criminal.

Take out your Bible, open to the scriptural passages and read each one. Then read it again ... slowly. Then, once again, very slowly. Place yourself in that scene and look around. This is a form of contemplative prayer. Standing at the foot of the cross, Jesus is looking down at you. Does He speak to you? What does He say? The rosary is simply a vehicle to guide you from one event to another, from one reflection to the next. And, YES, it is a powerful weapon against the devil.

Scott Hahn, a protestant convert, once broke his grandmother's rosary. Like you, he also saw it as a form of idol worship. He is a scripture scholar and, today has written a wealth of books on these aspects of the Catholic life, that were once so disdainful to him. Perhaps his explanation here, would provide a more insightful perspective than either Campion or I can give.

I hope this has been helpful but should you have any additional concerns, do not hesitate to ask. God bless you!

13 posted on 03/01/2013 7:33:36 AM PST by NYer (“Beware the man of a single book.” - St. Thomas Aquinas)
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To: delchiante
Mysteries initiated by Pope John Paul II are the Luminous Mysteries -- all founded in Scripture. We mediate on these mysteries as we say the rosary.

The Luminous Mysteries or Mysteries of Light
(Thursdays) see Rosarium Virginis Mariae
1. Jesus' Baptism in the Jordan (II Corinthians 5:21, Matthew 3:17 and parallels) [Spiritual fruit - Gratitude for the gift of Faith]
2. Jesus' self-manifestation at the wedding of Cana (John 2:1- 12) [Spiritual fruit - Fidelity]
3. Jesus' proclamation of the Kingdom of God, with His call to conversion (Mark 1:15, Mark 2:3-13; Luke 7:47- 48, John 20:22-23) [Spiritual fruit - Desire for Holiness]
4. Jesus' Transfiguration (Luke 9:35 and parallels) [Spiritual fruit - Spiritual Courage]
5. Jesus' institution of the Eucharist, as the sacramental expression of the Paschal Mystery. (Luke 24:13-35 and parallels, 1 Corinthians 11:24-25) [Spiritual fruit - Love of our Eucharistic Lord]

14 posted on 03/01/2013 7:55:38 AM PST by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: NYer

What a beautiful story. Thanks, NYer.

Now back on topic?


15 posted on 03/01/2013 7:57:41 AM PST by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: Sioux-san

Please offer your prayers on the thread for the Conclave and Cardinal Electors.


16 posted on 03/01/2013 7:58:39 AM PST by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: NYer

Power iof prayer isn’t discounted by me. I will continue to pray to the Creator and not the created.. unless it is believed Mary was there from the beginning ...


17 posted on 03/01/2013 8:41:43 AM PST by delchiante
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To: NYer

” The second part of the Hail Mary is not taken straight from Scripture, but it is entirely biblical in the thoughts it expresses. It reads:

“Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us sinners, now and at the hour of our death. Amen.” “

The only thing biblical about praying to someone other than God, or communicating with the spirits of those who have passed on, are the biblical condemnations and prohibitions against the practice.


18 posted on 03/01/2013 8:44:05 AM PST by Boogieman
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To: NYer

I am suggesting the worshipping of Mary is idol worship. And the church buying into Fatima miracle.. yup.


19 posted on 03/01/2013 8:45:27 AM PST by delchiante
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To: Boogieman
You are mistaken.

Holy Mary, Mother of God

Now please get out your Bible and turn to Luke's account of the Visitation.

How does Elizabeth greet Mary? Mother of my Lord

If your bible does not have these words, then it has been changed from the original Bible -- the Catholic one!

20 posted on 03/01/2013 8:48:39 AM PST by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: NYer

I like to meditate on this...

Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.
Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.
Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.
Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.
Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.
Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.


21 posted on 03/01/2013 8:50:30 AM PST by delchiante
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To: NYer

But take heart NYer, I don’t believe in the Good Friday death described by man. The misunderstanding and ignorance of the Jewish feasts of the Lord and the appointed times has the churches forcing it onto Friday...Wednesday pm would follow Leviticus and keep the three days and three nights in line with Jesus’ own words. But again, I am no bible scholar. Just a sinner saved by His grace.
May God bless you more!


22 posted on 03/01/2013 9:33:44 AM PST by delchiante
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To: delchiante

It’s a good thing then that Catholics don’t worship Mary. There are countless other FR threads where you can find detailed information about that fact, if you are interested.


23 posted on 03/01/2013 10:21:20 AM PST by ELS
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To: delchiante

Answer: The adversary isn’t called the Great Deceiver for nothing.


24 posted on 03/01/2013 11:26:13 AM PST by Old Yeller
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To: Salvation

Maybe you want to go back and reread my comment, because I didn’t raise any issue with that title, but rather with the practice of praying to someone other than God, and communicating with the spirits of those who have passed from this world, both of which are clearly forbidden by the Bible.


25 posted on 03/01/2013 1:00:53 PM PST by Boogieman
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To: Boogieman
The only thing biblical about praying to someone other than God, or communicating with the spirits of those who have passed on, are the biblical condemnations and prohibitions against the practice.

Yeah, and that bad example Jesus gave us of talking with Moses and Elijah at the Transfiguration. What was he thinking?!?

Before a century had passed, you had supposed "Christians" scrawling on the tombs of martyrs "Pray for us".

Before AD 250 (note: 150 years before the canonization of the NT, and 50 years before Constantine), you have the prayer "Sub tuum praesidium" to Mary, the oldest extant Marian prayer.

All because of that bad example Jesus gave us. (NOT.)

26 posted on 03/01/2013 1:32:24 PM PST by Campion ("Social justice" begins in the womb)
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To: Old Yeller
The adversary isn’t called the Great Deceiver for nothing.

And the Great Deceiver has been trying to destroy the Church every since Jesus began building it. And what he himself can never accomplish, he influences man to try to accomplish for him. That is why he is called the Great Deceiver.

27 posted on 03/01/2013 1:44:27 PM PST by mtg
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To: delchiante
Some people have made the unwarranted assumption that the words "pray to" and "adore" are synonymous.

They are not. "Pray" means "entreat," and can be used in relation to any person, although the usage is now in the US associated only with trial proceedings ("Plaintiff prays this honorable court," etc.)and, of course, Shakespeare ("I pray you, tarry. Pause a day or two")

When we so entreat any fellow creature, whether Mary, an angel or archangel, or a saint, we are entreating their intercessory prayers.

That's it.

If you don't have a problem with intercessory payers, it shouldn't surprise you that those who love us in heaven, do not cease to pray for us.

If I may ask: pray for me.

28 posted on 03/01/2013 1:54:55 PM PST by Mrs. Don-o (May the Lord bless you and keep you, may He turn to you His countenance, and give you peace.)
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To: Boogieman

Every time somebody in the Bible converses with an angel, they are communicating with a spirit. It happens multiple times in Scripture, and is never condemned.


29 posted on 03/01/2013 1:56:55 PM PST by Mrs. Don-o (May the Lord bless you and keep you, may He turn to you His countenance, and give you peace.)
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To: delchiante
You ought not to repeat falsehoods, although I believe you have done so innocently and inadvertently. Catholics do not worship Mary. We honor her, as we are commanded, in Scripture, to give "honor to whom honor is due."

And if Jesus honored Mary -- He durely did, for He followed the ocmmandment to "honor your father and your mother" --- then He will not condemn us if we do the same.

Mary herself, simple creature, mortal human being, and handmaid though she was, said "All generations will call me blessed."

We do. We are the fulfillment of this prophecy.

Tagline for you.

30 posted on 03/01/2013 2:02:12 PM PST by Mrs. Don-o (May the Lord bless you and keep you, may He turn to you His countenance, and give you peace.)
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To: delchiante; NYer
Very true,very true

Very true,very true

Very true,very true

Very true,very true

Very true,very true

Very true,very true

Very true,very true

Very true,very true

Very true,very true

.

And we can come to Jesus through others. "The first thing Andrew did was to find his brother Simon and tell him, “We have found the Messiah” .

You can come to Jesus through Andrew; you can definitely come to Him throuh Mary. Especially when her advice, while brief, is good:

"Do whatever He tells you."

31 posted on 03/01/2013 2:10:23 PM PST by Mrs. Don-o (May the Lord bless you and keep you, may He turn to you His countenance, and give you peace.)
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To: Mrs. Don-o

Immaculate Heart of Mary, refuge of sinners. I beg of you by the infinite merits of the Sacred Heart of Jesus, and by the graces God has granted to you since your Immaculate Conception, the grace of never going astray again, Mother, keep me. A sinner constantly bathed in the light of your Immaculate Heart.

Immaculate Heart of Mary, in union with your brothers and sisters throughout the world, I freely consecrate myself to your heart, immaculate and pure. Please accept this personal consecration as an act of reparation and for conversion of sinners.

Immaculate Heart of Mary, I love you! And wait patiently for the day your immaculate heart will triumph.

Humbly lay my soul in the light of your purity! Immaculate Heart of Mary, be my refuge, and the way to The eternal light of Jesus, our God. Amen.

???????????????


32 posted on 03/01/2013 2:35:57 PM PST by delchiante
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To: delchiante

And I haven’t even gotten into the Fatima AVE..
14.. Hail Refuge of Sinners! Hail, Star of the Sea. Hail, Queen of Creation! Our hope is in thee! AVE

WTFrick? And there are 14 other Aves in this booklet...

My Catholic friends, ugh...


33 posted on 03/01/2013 2:48:48 PM PST by delchiante
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To: delchiante

And this doozy- from Sister Lucy of Fatima speaking on the Rosary- ‘With the Holy Rosary, we will save ourselves, we will sanctify ourselves , we will console our Lord and obtain the salvation of many souls.”
Maybe she misspoke or misquoted..
I mean it is only in the little instruction manual given with the rosary...

That certainly is a different Gospel than in my Geneva Bible...


34 posted on 03/01/2013 3:01:25 PM PST by delchiante
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To: delchiante
The Rosary is not part of the Doctrine or Dogma of the Catholic Church, but one of its important 'externals'. If you look at the Mysteries of the Rosary, all of them are signposts pointing toward Jesus. When the Rosary is prayed, Jesus's conception, birth, public ministry, torture, Death and Resurrection are contemplated. It is one of the great prayers we have, when approached reverently and with an openness to understanding the Life of Jesus.

Most consider the Rosary a Marian Devotion, but it is truly a devotion turned toward Jesus.

35 posted on 03/01/2013 6:02:16 PM PST by SuziQ
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To: delchiante

Our Lady revealed to St. Dominic and Blessed Alan de la Roche additional benefits for those who devoutly pray the Rosary. >>

You either believe it or you don’t. And what made you ask this question?


36 posted on 03/01/2013 6:12:36 PM PST by Coleus
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To: delchiante
Dear delchiante, I think there are usually two areas that need more reflection -- one Biblical, and the other cultural --- in order for us to make sense of the queenly role which we see in Mary, the mother of our King.

First, the Biblical: one must carefully consider the unique position of the queen-mother in the Kingdom of Judah, which provides the foreshadowing, type and model for Mary in all those various queenly titles.

The major queenly figure in a Jewish royal court was not the king's wife (because he may have had many) but his mother (because he only had one.) To see this illustrated, you might want to look at how Solomon related to his mother, Bathsheba:

1 Kings 2:19
"When Bathsheba went to King Solomon to speak to him for Adonijah, the king stood up to meet her, bowed down to her and sat down on his throne. He had a throne brought for the king’s mother, and she sat down at his right hand."

We should be well aware that when a king actually bows to another, and graciously grants that person to be enthroned at his right hand, this indicates a place of unique honor and of powerful advocacy.

If you were to get a concordance and write down all he queenly references in the OT --- especially in the Psalms --- you would find the source all the titles and honors applied to Mary, since she is the fulfillment of all the royal-queenly imagery in the OT, just as Jesus her Son is the fulfillment of the royal-Kingly imagery.

Do not make the mistake of thinking this puts Mary on an equal footing with her Son. She is human, a creature, a handmaid; He is the Lord God Almighty. But as it is His pleasure to exalt the humble, all the glory redounds to Him, since as Mary said, "He has regarded the lowliness of his handmaid," and "He who is mighty has done great things for me."

The second consideration, the cultural: We, 21st Century Americans, have almost no exposure to, or natural affinity for, the kind of court-language which was natural to the Jews of Biblical times, as well as to our own European ancestors. Courtly language is foreign to us; it strikes us as strange because it is no longer part of our world.

However our ancestors, in their great artist and poetic expressions of the Kingship of Jesus, liked to portray His royal court with all kinds of devotional attention. This is perfectly valid because Jesus applied all the attributes of Judaean kingship to Himself, in accordance with all the expectations fond in OT precedent and prophecy.

It seems strange at first: but we should be careful to appreciate a culture diferent from our own, one with a far more elaborate and in-depth understanding of kingship and the relationships of royal persons.

37 posted on 03/01/2013 6:17:08 PM PST by Mrs. Don-o (May the Lord bless you and keep you, may He turn to you His countenance, and give you peace.)
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To: Sioux-san
I truly believe the next Pope will be the last Pope.

Didn't Edgar Cayce also predict that?

38 posted on 03/01/2013 6:26:31 PM PST by PJ-Comix (Beware the Rip in the Space/Time Continuum)
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To: PJ-Comix

I never heard of Edgar Cayce, but thank goodness for google. Verrrrrry Interrrrresting! My prediction is based on nothing nearly as cool.


39 posted on 03/01/2013 6:58:59 PM PST by Sioux-san
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To: delchiante
 photo hands_praying-1.jpg

It is late where I am but I understand your style of questioning. I once left the Catholic Church and came back. I talked to my mother at the time when she was alive almost the same things you bring up. I do not have the time right now to go into all of it. But I do appreciate your honest words.

One of the basics you have to remember is the Word "Pray" confuses people about Catholics. The word first meant and always means a "beseeching."

Popular culture( meaning as time progressed through the centuries) has brought to it to think of only to use in a sense towards God only. When you realize this is not true that is where the "scales" will fall.

It is first and foremost a "beseeching" to an individual man or Deity. The Dictionary will define two basic meanings.

pray 1. to offer devout petition, praise, thanks, etc., to (God or an object of worship).

2. to offer (a prayer).

3. to bring, put, etc., by praying: to pray a soul into heaven. 4.

to make earnest petition to (a person).

5. to make petition or entreaty for; crave: She prayed his forgiveness.

World English Dictionary

pray (preɪ)

— vb (when intr, often foll by for; when tr, usually takes a clause as object )

1. to utter prayers (to God or other object of worship): we prayed to God for the sick child

2. ( when tr, usually takes a clause as object or an infinitive ) to make an earnest entreaty (to or for); beg or implore: she prayed to be allowed to go ; leave, I pray you

3. rare ( tr ) to accomplish or bring by praying: to pray a soul into the kingdom

— interj 4. archaic I beg you; please: pray, leave us alone

[C13: from Old French preier, from Latin precārī to implore, from prex an entreaty; related to Old English fricgan, Old High German frāgēn to ask, Old Norse fregna to enquire]

When we pray to Mary we are beseeching her for pray to God for us just like if we ask a relative or neighbor. Then when we believe we had answer we will declare to the person. Thank you for "saving me."

It does not mean they did it except by his or her intercession. Meaning as person/soul praying by asking God we got an answer.

40 posted on 03/02/2013 12:40:41 AM PST by johngrace (I am a 1 John 4! Christian- declared at every Sunday Mass , Divine Mercy and Rosary prayers!)
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To: johngrace

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/pray?s=t


41 posted on 03/02/2013 12:42:58 AM PST by johngrace (I am a 1 John 4! Christian- declared at every Sunday Mass , Divine Mercy and Rosary prayers!)
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To: Mrs. Don-o
Great explanation. Amen.

 photo onegrazinglambbyEucharist.gif

42 posted on 03/02/2013 12:59:43 AM PST by johngrace (I am a 1 John 4! Christian- declared at every Sunday Mass , Divine Mercy and Rosary prayers!)
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To: johngrace

The veil has been torn. You have direct access to to the Creator in your prayer life- why do you need an exchange to redirect it?


43 posted on 03/02/2013 5:23:28 AM PST by delchiante
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To: Mrs. Don-o

Maybe you ought to re read the 15 promises our lady gave for praying the most holy rosary... and then explain to me words like Serve ME(1) , My special protection (2) The soul which recommends itself to Me(5) , I shall deliver from purgatory(9) you shall obtain all you ask of Me(), All those who propagate the holy rosary, shall be aided by in all their necessities (12), all who recite the rosary are My sons (14)..

I can see how important Mary is to getting a Catholic into heaven now. Jesus didn’t have to die. Just be born to Mary and Mary will save you...
If Catholics believe these 15 as truth, those Catholics may need a refresher on the bible....
Madness...sorry you are being deceived... any of those 15 shout STOP!

God is named specifically in 4 of the 15. Woo hoo!
Divine Son- 1
Jesus Christ -1
Me-4
My(not counting the Son)-3
I-3

Ouch.. Catholics wake up please.... your eternal soul is too precious to fall for deception. May God grant you all discernment and not a digging in mentality. The hole lasts forever.....


44 posted on 03/02/2013 6:24:13 AM PST by delchiante
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To: Coleus

The King of Kings and Lord of Lords taught us Himself how to pray and it didn’t start with Queen of the holy rosary...

Mathew 6:5-15
5 “And when you pray, you must not be like the hypocrites. For they love to stand and pray in the synagogues and at the street corners, that they may be seen by others. Truly, I say to you, they have received their reward. 6 But when you pray, go into your room and shut the door and pray to your Father who is in secret. And your Father who sees in secret will reward you. 7 “And when you pray, do not heap up empty phrases as the Gentiles do, for they think that they will be heard for their many words. 8 Do not be like them, for your Father knows what you need before you ask him. 9 Pray then like this: “Our Father in heaven, hallowed be your name. 10 Your kingdom come, your will be done, on earth as it is in heaven. 11 Give us this day our daily bread, 12 and forgive us our debts, as we also have forgiven our debtors. 13 And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil. 14 For if you forgive others their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you, 15 but if you do not forgive others their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.


45 posted on 03/02/2013 6:41:55 AM PST by delchiante
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To: Salvation

Jesus isn’t the problem with the mysteries.. it is the final 5two- the assumption and the coronation of Mary. As Queen of Heaven amd Earth. ..

The bible talks about the queen of heaven.
In Jeremiah certainly and it ISN’T GOOD. I would be curious how many Catholics haveba statue of Our lady of fatima in their home, churches..
Jeremiah 7

18 The [a] children gather wood,and the fathers kindle the fire,and the women knead dough to make cakes for the queen of heaven; and they pour out drink offerings to other gods in order to spite Me. 19 Do they spite Me?” declares the LORD. “Is it not themselves they spite,to [b] their own shame?” 20 Therefore thus says the Lord [c] GOD,“Behold,My anger and My wrath will be poured out on this place,on man and on beast and on the trees of the field and on the fruit of the ground; and it will burn and not be quenched.
Jeremiah 44:17-30

17 But rather we will certainly carry out every word that has proceeded from our mouths, [a] by burning [b] sacrifices to the queen of heaven and pouring out drink offerings to her,just as we ourselves,our forefathers,our kings and our princes did in the cities of Judah and in the streets of Jerusalem; for then we had plenty of [c] food and were well off and saw no [d] misfortune. 18 But since we stopped burning [e] sacrifices to the queen of heaven and pouring out drink offerings to her,we have lacked everything and have [f] met our end by the sword and by famine.” 19 “And,” said the women,“when we were burning [g] sacrifices to the queen of heaven and [h] were pouring out drink offerings to her,was it without our husbands that we made for her sacrificial cakes [i] in her image and poured out drink offerings to her?”

Calamity for the Jews

20 Then Jeremiah said to all the people,to the men and women—even to all the people who were giving him such an answer—saying, 21 “As for the [j] smoking sacrifices that you burned in the cities of Judah and in the streets of Jerusalem,you and your forefathers,your kings and your princes,and the people of the land,did not the LORD remember them and did not all this come into His [k] mind? 22 So the LORD was no longer able to endure it, because of the evil of your deeds,because of the abominations which you have committed; thus your land has become a ruin,an object of horror and a curse,without an inhabitant,as it is this day. 23 Because you have burned [l] sacrifices and have sinned against the LORD and not obeyed the voice of the LORD or walked in His law,His statutes or His testimonies,therefore this calamity has befallen you,as it has this day.”

24 Then Jeremiah said to all the people,including all the women,“Hear the word of the LORD,all Judah who are in the land of Egypt, 25 thus says the LORD of hosts,the God of Israel,as follows: ‘As for you and your wives,you have spoken with your mouths and fulfilled it with your hands,saying,“We will certainly perform our vows that we have vowed,to burn [m] sacrifices to the queen of heaven and pour out drink offerings to her.” [n] Go ahead and confirm your vows,and certainly perform your vows!’ 26 [o] Nevertheless hear the word of the LORD,all Judah who are living in the land of Egypt,‘Behold,I have sworn by My great name,’ says the LORD,‘never shall My name be invoked again by the mouth of any man of Judah in all the land of Egypt, saying,“As the Lord [p] GOD lives.” 27 Behold,I am watching over them for harm and not for good,and all the men of Judah who are in the land of Egypt will [q] meet their end by the sword and by famine until they [r] are completely gone. 28 Those who escape the sword will return out of the land of Egypt to the land of Judah [s] few in number. Then all the remnant of Judah who have gone to the land of Egypt to reside there will know whose word will stand, Mine or theirs. 29 This will be the sign to you,’ declares the LORD,‘that I am going to punish you in this place,so that you may know that My words will surely stand against you for harm.’ 30 Thus says the LORD,‘Behold,I am going to give over Pharaoh Hophra king of Egypt to the hand of his enemies,to the hand of those who seek his life,just as I gave over Zedekiah king of Judah to the hand of Nebuchadnezzar king of Babylon,who was his enemy and was seeking his life.’”


46 posted on 03/02/2013 7:28:04 AM PST by delchiante
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To: NYer
I was not a Catholic. I was not in communion with the Holy Father. I was in schism. It was a sickening feeling. I was out of communion with the Vicar of Christ,

There is no vicar of Jesus Christ outside of the Holy Spirit...The scriptures of God warn us time and time again to get out and away from these people...

47 posted on 03/02/2013 7:46:08 AM PST by Iscool (I love animals...barbequed, fried, grilled, stewed,,,,)
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To: Campion
Catholics are free to believe it or not. However, the Rosary is a meditation on the events of the lives of Jesus and Mary. How could that not be "a powerful armor against hell"? What better topic to contemplate?

There is no armor there...It fails to teach you even of the smallest wiles of the devil...

Eph 6:11 Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.

Eph 6:17 And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:

You absolutely have to have the word of God (sthe scriptures) to know and then fight the wiles of the devil...

48 posted on 03/02/2013 8:00:24 AM PST by Iscool (I love animals...barbequed, fried, grilled, stewed,,,,)
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To: delchiante; Salvation
The [a] children gather wood,and the fathers kindle the fire,and the women knead dough to make cakes for the queen of heaven; and they pour out drink offerings to other gods in order to spite Me. 19 Do they spite Me?”

If, like most people, do you have family photos in your home? When traveling to visit friends, have you ever taken out a wallet or iphone or ipad to show them photos of your family? Having a photo is not the same as worship. Having a statue of our Lady of Fatima is not worship. It is like a photo - a simple reminder of our Mother ... and yours! Jesus entrusted her to ALL of us, from the cross.

Jesus isn’t the problem with the mysteries.. it is the final 5two- the assumption and the coronation of Mary. As Queen of Heaven amd Earth. ..

Let's begin with the first part - the assumption of Mary into heaven. What is the role of our Blessed Mother in the mystery of salvation? This provides the foundation for the belief in the Assumption. We firmly believe that from the first moment of her conception Mary was free of all sin, including Original Sin, by a special favor of almighty God. The Archangel Gabriel recognized her as "full of grace," "blessed among women" and "one with the Lord." Mary had been chosen to be the Mother of our savior. By the power of the Holy Spirit, she conceived our Lord Jesus Christ, and through her, true God became also man, "The Word became flesh and dwelt among us."

Here is the scriptural explanation: Scott Hahn on the Assumption of the Blessed Virgin Mary

Your second point - the queenship of Mary
Mary’s role as queen over the universal Church finds its roots in the Scriptures.

The Old Testament foreshadows this queenship of Mary, by teaching us about the honor accorded to the Queen Mother in Israelite society. Theologian Dr. Scott Hahn writes and speaks about the “Queen Mother,” called the “gebirah” in Hebrew. In traditional Jewish life, the “gebirah” occupied a unique and powerful position throughout the history of ancient Israel’s monarchy. When the Queen Mother, or gebirah, entered the room, the king would rise to his feet as a sign of respect; and the king always acceded to his mother’s wishes.

For example, Solomon crowned his mother Bathsheba, the “Queen Mother” who sat at his right side. In all, through Israelite history there are 16 “Queen Mothers.” It is this Queen Mother, who typically ascends to the throne after menopause, who exerts the greatest influence on the king.

In Hebrew culture, even if the king were deposed, even if he died, the Queen Mother would continue to rule from her throne. She played an important role in leading the songs and worship; but she also was the king’s “wisdom counselor,” involved in political, military and economic affairs of court. In fact, ancient records show that in some instances, the Queen Mother even dared to oppose the king on issues of state.

Proverbs 31, the only chapter of the Bible believed to be written by a woman, was penned by a Queen Mother as instruction for her son—preparing him to accede to the throne and to select a proper wife.

In 1 Kings 15:13, Jezebel, wife of King Ahab, was an evil queen in the rebellious northern kingdom of Israel. According to Old Testament scholar Fr. Roland DeVoe, one significant cause for the disruption and unrest in the northern kingdom at the time of Jezebel and Ahab was that there was no Queen Mother. The lack of “dynastic stability”—the history of one group being overthrown by another—meant a lack of continuity in the culture.

As was the custom in Israel, Mary was predestined to be the Queen Mother of Jesus. Since Jesus was to be King of all creation, his mother Mary—in dependence on Jesus—was to be his Queen. Since Jesus took his earthly flesh from His mother Mary, it was only fitting that her flesh, too, should have been preserved from the stain of original sin.

Mary was acting in her role of Queen Mother when, at the wedding feast at Cana, she turned to her Son for help– and then when she instructed the steward, “Do whatever He tells you.”

Here is a good scriptural explanation: Scott Hahn on the Queenship of the Blessed Virgin Mary

49 posted on 03/02/2013 8:42:57 AM PST by NYer (“Beware the man of a single book.” - St. Thomas Aquinas)
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To: NYer
If, like most people, do you have family photos in your home? When traveling to visit friends, have you ever taken out a wallet or iphone or ipad to show them photos of your family? Having a photo is not the same as worship.

How about it you prop up the photo, prone yourself on the floor in front of the photo, pray to the photo and ask the photo to perform miracles for you and to save you from hell??? Is that worship???

50 posted on 03/02/2013 9:45:46 AM PST by Iscool (I love animals...barbequed, fried, grilled, stewed,,,,)
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