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All bad news, all the time? Really? (Catholicism surging globally, despite growing repression.)
Data mostly from CARA, to rebut NYT. ^ | 3-4-13 | Vanity

Posted on 03/03/2013 9:33:32 PM PST by dangus

NY Times' op-ed contributor and Georgetown professor Paul Elie says the reign of Pope Benedict has been "all bad news, all the time." Really?

Vocations, globally, are up 70% since the mid-70s.

The number of diocesan priests is at an all-time, and growing faster the number of Catholics, or the global population.

The population of Catholics in the world is growing faster than the global population, (1.5% to 1.3% per year) despite being centered in industrialized nations. Conversions to the Catholic church are at an all-time high.

The number of students in Catholic high schools has doubled globally since the 1970s, the highest proportion of Catholics going to a Catholics high school since public education became ubiquitous in the modern world.

Pope Benedict's approval ratings among American Catholics (including "fallen away" Catholics) is 74%, and among all Americans is at 62%. When was the last time an American leader ever had an approval rating that high among Americans?

The number of religious (celibate) brothers is growing for the first time since Vatican 2.

Nonetheless, the number of permanent deacons is also still exploding.

The funny thing is this data is gathered by the Center for Applied Research into the Apostolate (CARA)... at Georgetown University. You'd think Elie would know of it.

SIDE NOTE: Georgetown University is paying a professor who is writing in the New York Times not only to disparage the Pope Emeritus, but also to call Catholics to leave the church. ("If the Pope Can Quit, Catholics Can, Too.") What does a guy have to do to lose professional respect, if not get fired?


TOPICS: Apologetics; Catholic; Current Events; Religion & Culture
KEYWORDS: benedictxvi; catholic; pope; popebenedict; popeemeritus
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1 posted on 03/03/2013 9:33:49 PM PST by dangus
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To: dangus

Very good stats that disprove much of what is posted by others on FR. Thank you.


2 posted on 03/03/2013 9:38:34 PM PST by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: dangus; nickcarraway; NYer; ELS; Pyro7480; livius; ArrogantBustard; Catholicguy; RobbyS; ...

Good news ping!


3 posted on 03/03/2013 9:40:20 PM PST by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: dangus

Ordinations, 1975: 4,149
Ordinations, 2010: 6,863

Catholic students in secondary schools, 1970: 7,667,000
Catholic students in secondary schools, 2010: 17,794,000

Catholic population, 1970: 653 million
Catholic population, 2010: 1.196 billion

Parishes without a pastor, 1995: 60,705
Parishes without a pastor, 2010: 49,172

Deacons and brothers, 1985: 77,749
Deacons and brothers, 2010: 94,229

Diocesan priests, 2005: 269,762
Diocesan priests, 2010: 277,009

What is so impressive about the increase in the number of priests is that the number has included retired priests. Due to the surge in the priestly vocations in Europe in the middle of the 20th century, there has recently been a fantastic number of retirement-age priests. Those priests are dying off by the thousands, yet the number of new priests is so great that the total number is still increasing.


4 posted on 03/03/2013 9:43:31 PM PST by dangus
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To: dangus

Outstanding!

Bookmarking this page.


5 posted on 03/03/2013 9:46:12 PM PST by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: Salvation

I’m very eager to read CARA’s US seminary report coming out in the next couple of months, to see if data from last year represents a trend, or just a blip. If a trend, there may be an astounding rejuvenation among American priests. And vocations is always the truest measure of the health of the church.


6 posted on 03/03/2013 9:49:34 PM PST by dangus
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To: dangus

Yes, **And vocations is always the truest measure of the health of the church.**

Growing in the Archdiocese of Portland Oregon!

Whenmy priest was ordained, there were only two of them. This year I believe we have a repeat of last year with nine ordinands each year. I had a broken foot last year and could not attend the ordinations, but hope to go this year.


7 posted on 03/03/2013 10:02:44 PM PST by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: dangus

Am not a Catholic but increases by the clergy or students enrolled in Catholic Schools is a blessing. Only church schools will bring this nation back through young people. What is being taught in public schools is shameful. God bless the parents for the financial sacrifice they are making.


8 posted on 03/03/2013 10:21:23 PM PST by YukonGreen
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To: YukonGreen

Catholics are a democrat support group, they will be saving the pro-abortion democratic party.


9 posted on 03/03/2013 11:27:07 PM PST by ansel12 (Romney is a longtime supporter of homosexualizing the Boy Scouts (and the military).)
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To: dangus

Excellent news, thanks for this post.


10 posted on 03/03/2013 11:54:18 PM PST by Brian Kopp DPM
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To: YukonGreen

I’m not a Catholic, but I always thought sending my kids to a Catholic school might be a good option. However, among my nieces and nephews, the two that attended Catholic schools both turned out homosexual and are *way* out on the Left end of the political spectrum. I got the impression that my niece’s school in particular was very focused on issues of “social justice.” When she entered that school she wasn’t an atheist, but she was by the time she finished. She’s on track to become the next HRC, but a good deal more radical. God help us.


11 posted on 03/04/2013 3:00:38 AM PST by Qilin
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To: dangus

Thanks be to God!


12 posted on 03/04/2013 3:36:58 AM PST by Biggirl ("Jesus talked to us as individuals"-Jim Vicevich/Thanks JimV!)
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To: ansel12

The good news is that, with a new Pope soon to be elected, give both John Paul II and Benedict XVI CREDIT where it is DUE, they have appointed bishops/cardinals who are a LOT more conservative. The house cleaning has begun!


13 posted on 03/04/2013 3:39:54 AM PST by Biggirl ("Jesus talked to us as individuals"-Jim Vicevich/Thanks JimV!)
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To: dangus
If the Pope Can Quit, Catholics Can, Too.

A putative Catholic who would say something like this isn't a Catholic i.e. he quit long ago.

Is Georgetown still a Catholic school? There are a number of universities that were founded as Catholic institutions that stopped beng Catholic in the latter part of the 20th Century or just after that. See Notre Dame.

14 posted on 03/04/2013 4:03:59 AM PST by stevem
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To: ansel12
Catholics are a democrat support group, they will be saving the pro-abortion democratic party.

Only the twice a year Catholics {Christmas and Easter} are big demonRATS, the majority of Catholics that actually practice their Faith, vote conservative.

There are exceptions to that rule also { my friend Fr. ...., a very lib Priest is one of them}, but read the stats from the last two elections.

15 posted on 03/04/2013 4:10:46 AM PST by USS Alaska (Nuke the terrorist savages, start today.)
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To: USS Alaska; ansel12

Oh, now you’ve done it! ansel12 knows all about the election stats. He brings them up all the time. The problem is that he misinterprets them too. He’ll note that more Catholics voted for Obama than against - but will never admit two things:

1) Protestants of various stripes greatly outnumber all the Catholics in the U.S. Protestants put Democrats in the White House each time they win.

2) The Catholics who vote for someone like Obama are really not faithful Catholics.


16 posted on 03/04/2013 4:44:42 AM PST by vladimir998
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To: vladimir998; ansel12

He will also go back long before Roe v. Wade and try to contend that Catholic support for Democrats 50 years ago translates into Catholic support for the modern pro-abort, pro-sodomy, pro-euthanasia Demoncrat [misspelling intentional] party.


17 posted on 03/04/2013 5:14:45 AM PST by Campion ("Social justice" begins in the womb)
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To: vladimir998
2) The Catholics who vote for someone like Obama are really not faithful Catholics.

If I had a nickel for every time I heard "they aren't real Catholics" I could release everyone in purgatory with the donation.

18 posted on 03/04/2013 5:17:16 AM PST by dartuser (My firearm is not illegal ... its undocumented.)
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To: dangus

Very bad news?

Benedict began the awesome task of cleaning the stables, restoring the liturgy, knocking back the sodomites, reclaiming the Faith and transforming heterodox dioceses into faithful ones, removing the destroyers.

I can see how the NYT would think this was bad news!


19 posted on 03/04/2013 5:34:56 AM PST by OpusatFR
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To: OpusatFR
Benedict began the awesome task of cleaning the stables, restoring the liturgy, knocking back the sodomites, reclaiming the Faith and transforming heterodox dioceses into faithful ones, removing the destroyers.

I haven't heard of a single homosexual cardinal being relieved of his duties...What did I miss???

20 posted on 03/04/2013 6:14:17 AM PST by Iscool (I love animals...barbequed, fried, grilled, stewed,,,,)
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To: Iscool

A lot.

But then again, I’m not going to enlighten you.

I really could not care less what some think.


21 posted on 03/04/2013 7:13:31 AM PST by OpusatFR
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To: dangus

Thank you for posting the data that way. Impressive.

Is there a breakdown at the data source for just the US?


22 posted on 03/04/2013 7:40:56 AM PST by Bigg Red (Restore us, O God of hosts; let your face shine, that we may be saved! -Ps80)
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To: Iscool

The news, over the last few days.


23 posted on 03/04/2013 7:43:05 AM PST by Campion ("Social justice" begins in the womb)
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To: ansel12
**Catholics are a democrat support group, they will be saving the pro-abortion democratic party.**

Catholics CINOS are a democrat support group, they will be saving the pro-abortion democratic party.

And what are CINOS? Just like RINOS -- Catholics in Name Only; Republicans in Name Only.

24 posted on 03/04/2013 7:45:46 AM PST by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: YukonGreen

Only church schools will bring this nation back through young people. What is being taught in public schools is shameful. God bless the parents for the financial sacrifice they are making.

&&&
You are so right on all counts.


25 posted on 03/04/2013 7:46:23 AM PST by Bigg Red (Restore us, O God of hosts; let your face shine, that we may be saved! -Ps80)
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To: Iscool

Plain and simple fact:

The John Jay Study, conducted by academics and prosecutors in a non-Catholic university setting, found in 2005 that the rate of sexual abuse had dropped by 97% by 1990, long before the news media caught wind of it.

Nearly all of what is in the news over the last several years relates to abse that happened decades ago.


26 posted on 03/04/2013 7:58:43 AM PST by dangus
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To: dangus

I’ve been saying this all along. 1 out of every 4 Americans is Catholic. I don’t know why amy one is surprised at having so many Catholics on FreeRepublic. Keep praying for our church, His church.


27 posted on 03/04/2013 10:48:07 AM PST by mgist
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To: Biggirl

It won’t change the Catholic vote, in the voting booth, Catholics will continue to support the democrat party and their pro-abortion, pro-homosexual agenda.

The democratic party will be able to depend on the Catholics, forever.


28 posted on 03/04/2013 12:05:36 PM PST by ansel12 (Romney is a longtime supporter of homosexualizing the Boy Scouts (and the military).)
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To: Campion

Catholics do “support for the modern pro-abort, pro-sodomy, pro-euthanasia Demoncrat [misspelling intentional] party.” and always will.


29 posted on 03/04/2013 12:06:34 PM PST by ansel12 (Romney is a longtime supporter of homosexualizing the Boy Scouts (and the military).)
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To: Salvation

The Catholic denomination produces majority democrat voters, and always will.


30 posted on 03/04/2013 12:09:02 PM PST by ansel12 (Romney is a longtime supporter of homosexualizing the Boy Scouts (and the military).)
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To: ansel12

Simply not true, ansel12. 67% of church-going Catholics voted Republican in the last election. Only 47% of the total who call themselves Catholic did, but due to the influx of Hispanic immigrants, the majority of those who call themselves Catholic are minorities, compared to only 1 in 5 Protestants. These “Catholics” are in name only, and usually are not even captured by Church estimates of the Catholic population.

Even still, even in states such as New Jersey, New York, Massachusetts, Rhode Island, Michigan, and Illinois, vast, vast majorities of Catholics voted Republican, typically in margins of greater than 30%. In these states, Protestants voted overwhelmingly Democrat. Only in the Southwest, where so-called “Catholics” are largely illegal, amnestied, and quasi-legal immigrants and their offspring did the Democrats win the Catholic vote.

Among Protestants, the Churchgoing vote is very similar to the non-churchgoing vote (78% vs. 66% for white Protestants). Among Catholics, the split is enormous (67% vs. 23%). So before getting all high and mighty about Protestants voting more Republican than Catholics, consider that Christian adherence doesn’t budge the vote of those who belong to Protestant demographic groups, but has an awesomely large effect on Catholic demographic groups.


31 posted on 03/04/2013 12:15:37 PM PST by dangus
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To: mgist
I’ve been saying this all along. 1 out of every 4 Americans is Catholic.

I've heard that the more often a Catholic attends mass, the more likely said person is a faithful, practicing i.e. "real" Catholic and not just a self-professing "cafeteria" Catholic. I've also seen studies that show only 10% or so of "self-professing" Catholics actually attend mass weekly. Therefore, the number of "real Catholics" in this country is no higher than 7.5 million (i.e. one tenth of the 75 million that you claim), if that fraction is correct.

The exit polls for the last two presidential elections found that, of the most frequently attending religious group (white evangelical Protestants), 25% still voted for Obama. I'll give "real" Catholics the benefit of the doubt on this one, and credit their 7.5 million weekly-attending Catholics with that same voting percent, thus 5.6 million voted for Romney, and 1.9 voted for Obama. I've been told that any Catholic who unrepentantly voted for a pro-abortion politician has latae sententiae excommunicated themselves from the church, so there can only be 5.6 million "real" Catholics out of the weekly attending group. That's just 7.8 percent of the starting number of 75 million.

If I'm right about the "real" number being far smaller than 75 million, one could make the argument that the changing condition of our country is in direct proportion to the reduced number of Catholics therein. On the other hand, a recent thread showed that the United States has the fourth largest population of Catholics in the world (assuming the less discriminating number of 70+ million). If that number has any qualitative meaning, meaning we don't need to discriminate between "real" and "cafeteria", one could make the argument that the changing condition of our country is in direct proportion to the growth of Catholicism therein.

32 posted on 03/04/2013 12:20:14 PM PST by Alex Murphy ("If you are not firm in faith, you will not be firm at all" - Isaiah 7:9)
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To: dangus

LOL, Dangus, yes it is true, Obama won the Catholic vote as expected, as is usual.

The Catholic vote is a democrat vote, and will always be


33 posted on 03/04/2013 12:30:18 PM PST by ansel12 (Romney is a longtime supporter of homosexualizing the Boy Scouts (and the military).)
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To: ansel12

Do you have specific statistics that can verify your statements? I’d like to see them.


34 posted on 03/04/2013 12:55:04 PM PST by oust the louse (You need your parents signature to go on a school field trip but not to get an abortion.)
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To: oust the louse

Really? You want to learn how Catholics voted in 2008 and 2012?


35 posted on 03/04/2013 1:05:00 PM PST by ansel12 (Romney is a longtime supporter of homosexualizing the Boy Scouts (and the military).)
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To: ansel12

I read that the first five times you posted in on Free Republic. Repeating it over and over again doesn’t make it any less misleading.


36 posted on 03/04/2013 1:21:42 PM PST by dangus
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To: dangus

You can’t just claim that members of the Catholic denomination do not vote as they do when we all know better.

In the voting booth, Catholics will continue to support the democrat party and their pro-abortion, pro-homosexual agenda.

The democratic party will be able to depend on the Catholics, forever.


37 posted on 03/04/2013 1:42:07 PM PST by ansel12 (Romney is a longtime supporter of homosexualizing the Boy Scouts (and the military).)
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To: dangus

Thank-you for making my day with that posting.


38 posted on 03/04/2013 2:04:01 PM PST by Biggirl ("Jesus talked to us as individuals"-Jim Vicevich/Thanks JimV!)
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To: dangus

This is the beauty of threads such as this, different viewpoints and opinions.


39 posted on 03/04/2013 2:05:44 PM PST by Biggirl ("Jesus talked to us as individuals"-Jim Vicevich/Thanks JimV!)
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To: dangus

A good word about the Church.


40 posted on 03/04/2013 2:07:15 PM PST by Biggirl ("Jesus talked to us as individuals"-Jim Vicevich/Thanks JimV!)
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To: ansel12

Translated, your posts all read as the following:

“Don’t start spouting facts at me! I want to believe my uninformed presumptions, because I need them to sustain my biases!”


41 posted on 03/04/2013 2:35:56 PM PST by dangus
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To: ansel12

Catholics are a democrat support group, they will be saving the pro-abortion democratic party.

Only “Easter and Christmas Catholics” are. Those going to mass every week are not. Check your facts first.


42 posted on 03/04/2013 2:44:50 PM PST by NotTallTex
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To: dangus

No dangus, the facts are as I presented them, the Catholic vote is a pro-abortion, pro-homosexual agenda, pro-democrat vote.

I think we all agree that the democrats can depend on winning the catholic vote forever, the left is depending on it.


43 posted on 03/04/2013 2:49:49 PM PST by ansel12 (Romney is a longtime supporter of homosexualizing the Boy Scouts (and the military).)
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To: NotTallTex

Yes, baptized members of the Catholic denomination, the Catholic voters, will be supporting the democrat party forever, the left is counting on it.

Those are the facts.


44 posted on 03/04/2013 2:52:57 PM PST by ansel12 (Romney is a longtime supporter of homosexualizing the Boy Scouts (and the military).)
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To: Alex Murphy

Georgetown University’s CARA Institute finds that about 25% of Catholics attend every week. Gallup finds that about 40% of Catholics attend mass in a given week. I would find either of those reasonable estimates of who I would call “real Catholics.” But by either of these measures, Christians in general are a small minority of the total U.S. population.

There are clse to as many Catholics as all Protestant, Baptist, Anglican, and marginal Christian or non-denominational churches combined (23-25%), but are outnumbered by “other Christians.”

You’re probably thinking that’s crazy, and it is in a way: Non-active Catholics continue to identify as Catholics, but former members of other Christian denominations quit identifying particularly with one denomination. And the majority of Americans no longer identify with any particular sect.

This means if you poll Catholic vs. Non-Catholic, or church-going Catholic vs. church-going Protestant, you’ll get fairly similar results. If, on the other hand poll Catholic vs. Protestant, you’ll find the Catholic vote is significantly further to the left.


45 posted on 03/04/2013 3:08:58 PM PST by dangus
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To: dangus

Translation: Giving what is viewed more as one poster’s opinion dressed as a fact.


46 posted on 03/04/2013 3:37:14 PM PST by Biggirl ("Jesus talked to us as individuals"-Jim Vicevich/Thanks JimV!)
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To: Biggirl

Not opinion. Data.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2957081/posts


47 posted on 03/04/2013 7:48:23 PM PST by dangus
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To: dangus; mgist
Georgetown University’s CARA Institute finds that about 25% of Catholics attend every week.

Gallup finds that about 40% of Catholics attend mass in a given week.

Those are two very different statistics, and I would caution you not to confuse the two. The second says that on any given Sunday, any 40% of the total are attending mass. but it does not say the same 40% of the total are attending mass on every given Sunday. I do not recall at the moment where I got the 10% number I was using, but I have a feeling it was related to daily attendance, not weekly.

I would find either of those reasonable estimates of who I would call “real Catholics.” But by either of these measures, Christians in general are a small minority of the total U.S. population.

The question I raised, in response to mgist's earlier post, is whether there are really 75 million Catholics in the United States, or (recalculating with your 25% attendance number) whether there are actually 14 million "real" Catholics, with the other 61 million being "Catholics in name only" and nothing worth bragging about. And yes, I think we can make similar calculations using any Protestant denomination.

Ultimately, I think we would agree that "real" Christians in general are a small minority of the total U.S. population, and that recent elections have gone the way they have because the "real" Christians are being outvoted.

48 posted on 03/04/2013 8:02:04 PM PST by Alex Murphy ("If you are not firm in faith, you will not be firm at all" - Isaiah 7:9)
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To: Iscool

Hi Iscool,Do you have names?God bless our priests.


49 posted on 03/04/2013 8:13:48 PM PST by fatima (Free Hugs Today :))
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To: dangus

Thank-you for making my day!


50 posted on 03/05/2013 3:25:51 AM PST by Biggirl ("Jesus talked to us as individuals"-Jim Vicevich/Thanks JimV!)
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