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Pastor Mike Hoggard of Bethel Church - A LIAR and FALSE PROPHET!
ConstitutionallySpeaking ^ | March 10, 2013 | ConstitutionallySpeaking

Posted on 03/10/2013 11:58:35 AM PDT by patlin

There has been a widespread and growing 'deadly cancer' in the Christian church as of late and that 'cancer' is the pulpits profusely proclaiming that anyone who wishes to do 'JUST AS' Jesus did and to walk in the same manner as Jesus did, those who choose this path have fallen out of grace and are claimed to have joined a cult. So is this true?

In his March 5, 2013, Mike Hoggard vehemently shouted at the top of his lungs during his radio broadcast that the 4th Commandment of God was nailed to the cross. Now mind you, this is the ONE Commandment of God that contains the 'sign/mark" of His Covenant with all mankind that dates back to the seventh day of creation. So could the Jesus that Hoggard preaches be the true Messiah that never spoke against or did anything in disobedience to God the Father? I would say without a doubt, NO, Mike Hoggard is not proclaiming the true Messiah that Moses and the Prophets wrote about but a different messiah and a different gospel and here is why.

Deu 13:1 If there arise among you a prophet, or a dreamer of dreams, and giveth thee a sign or a wonder, 2 And the sign or the wonder come to pass, whereof he spake unto thee, saying, Let us go after other gods, which thou hast not known, and let us serve them; 3 Thou shalt not hearken unto the words of that prophet, or that dreamer of dreams: for the LORD your God proveth you, to know whether ye love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul. 4 Ye shall walk after the LORD your God, and fear him, and keep his commandments, and obey his voice, and ye shall serve him, and cleave unto him.

Exo 31:13 Speak thou also unto the children of Israel, saying, Verily my sabbaths ye shall keep: for it is a sign between me and you throughout your generations; that ye may know that I am the LORD that doth sanctify you.

Isa 56:1 Thus saith the LORD, Keep ye judgment, and do justice: for my salvation is near to come, and my righteousness to be revealed. 2 Blessed is the man that doeth this, and the son of man that layeth hold on it; that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it, and keepeth his hand from doing any evil. 3 Neither let the son of the stranger, that hath joined himself to the LORD, speak, saying, The LORD hath utterly separated me from his people, ...6 Also the sons of the stranger, that join themselves to the LORD, to serve him, and to love the name of the LORD, to be his servants, every one that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it, and taketh hold of my covenant; 7 Even them will I bring to my holy mountain, and make them joyful in my house of prayer: their burnt offerings and their sacrifices shall be accepted upon mine altar; for mine house shall be called an house of prayer for all people. 8 The Lord GOD which gathereth the outcasts of Israel saith, Yet will I gather others to him, beside those that are gathered unto him. ... 10 His watchmen are blind: they are all ignorant, they are all dumb dogs, they cannot bark; sleeping, lying down, loving to slumber. 11 Yea, they are greedy dogs which can never have enough, and they are shepherds that cannot understand: they all look to their own way, every one for his gain, from his quarter.

Mike Hoggard claims to be a watchman but teaches that His seventh day Sabbath is not for all mankind and those that claim it is are heretics and members of some cult. So what else do the Prophets have to say of His Sabbath as being valid for ALL mankind?

Eze 20:11 And I gave them my statutes, and shewed them my judgments, which if a man do, he shall even live in them (Rm 10:5). 12 Moreover also I gave them my sabbaths, to be a sign between me and them, that they might know that I am the LORD that sanctify them.1 between them and Me, to know that I am יהוה who sets them apart. Footnote: 1See Ex. 31:13-17.

Eze 20:23 I lifted up mine hand unto them also in the wilderness, that I would scatter them among the heathen, and disperse them through the countries; 24 Because they had not executed my judgments, but had despised my statutes, and had polluted my sabbaths, and their eyes were after their fathers' idols. 25 Wherefore I gave them also statutes that were not good, and judgments whereby they should not live1. Footnote: 1Ps. 81:12, Isa. 30:28, Acts 7:42, Rom. 1:24-28, 2 Thess. 2:11.

Isa 66:19 "And I will set a sign among them, and I will send those that escape of them unto the nations, to Tarshish, Pul, and Lud, that draw the bow, to Tubal, and Javan, to the isles afar off, that have not heard my fame, neither have seen my glory; and they shall declare my glory among the Gentiles. ... 23 And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.

So we see that it was NOT prophesied that the Sabbath would be nailed to anything, but rather it will be restored in all its glory as it was in the beginning. So did Jesus of Nazareth speak to the continuation of the Father's perpetual and everlasting seventh day Sabbath for all mankind? Why yes Jesus of Nazareth certainly did.

Mat 24:4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, "Take heed that no man deceive you. 5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many. ... 11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many. 2 And because iniquity (lawlessness / transgression against the Law of God) shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold. ... 20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the SABBATH DAY: 21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be."

So as this false prophet Mike Hoggard claims that his Jesus nailed the 4th Commandment to the cross and that we no longer are bound by this burdensome law, but as we can see, the true Jesus of Nazareth of the King James bible tells us just the opposite of what false prophet Mike Hoggard prophesies and that the true Jesus will be expecting us to keep and honor the 4th Commandment because as a disciple, one who imitates and emulates the Master, if one is a true disciple of Jesus, then one will joyfully do as Jesus did and not call ANY command of the Father burdensome.

Mat 11:29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls. 30 For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.

1Jn 5:1 Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him. 2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments. 3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous (burdensome).

Rom 10:5 For Moses describeth the righteousness which is of the law, That the man which doeth those things shall live by them (Ez 20:11). 6 But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down from above:) 7 Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ again from the dead.) 8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;

Deu 30:10 If thou shalt hearken unto the voice of the LORD thy God, to keep his commandments and his statutes which are written in this book of the law, and if thou turn unto the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul. 11 For this commandment which I command thee this day, it is not hidden (too hard, too burdensome) from thee, neither is it far off. 12 It is not in heaven, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go up for us to heaven, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it? 13 Neither is it beyond the sea, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go over the sea for us, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it? 14 But the word is very nigh unto thee, in thy mouth, and in thy heart, that thou mayest do it.

interestingly enough, Hoggard did quote from Paul about making void the Law of God, but then in the same breath he denied that which he just spoke while also ignoring the fact that Paull also taught us that we are to 'establish' the Law of God by doing it through faith just as Abraham 'established' the Law of God by doing it through faith.

Rom 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

Rom 6:1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? 2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

1Jn 3:1 Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not. 2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is. 3 And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure. 4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law. 5 And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin. 6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him. 7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous. 8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil. 9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

We are sons and daughters of God through the begotten Son of God and therefore, as He did, we are to do likewise so that through the Son, we also can be transformed into the likeness of the Father.

2Co 3:18 But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord.

Therefore, according to Scripture Mike Hoggard is a LIAR and a FALSE PROPHET!

1Jn 2:1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: 2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world. 3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. 4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him. 6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.

Now I implore the readers to remember, these are NOT my words or accusations, these are the words and accusations of God the Father and His only begotten Son that Hoggard claims to represent yet in the same breath Hoggard denies both the Father and the Son. Therefore, in denying that the WHOLE Word of God, from Genesis to Revelation is for ALL mankind, Hoggard is denying the very existence of the authority of God the Father and His only begotten Son and creating his own authority upon the earth with a new Gospel message of lawlessness towards God the Father that the only begotten Son of God never taught or preached.

Ecc 12:13 Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man. 14 For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil.


TOPICS: General Discusssion; Religion & Culture; Theology
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1 posted on 03/10/2013 11:58:35 AM PDT by patlin
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To: patlin

Hope your flame suit is handy...


2 posted on 03/10/2013 12:06:33 PM PDT by STYRO (War sucks. Living in slavery sucks even worse.)
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To: STYRO

Ready and armed!!!


3 posted on 03/10/2013 12:07:27 PM PDT by patlin ("Knowledge is a powerful source that is 2nd to none but God" ConstitutionallySpeaking 2011)
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To: patlin

You speak the truth like that and many, if not most, christians in the US will disagree with you.


4 posted on 03/10/2013 12:09:25 PM PDT by STYRO (War sucks. Living in slavery sucks even worse.)
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To: STYRO

That is the point. To expose the truth of the “strong delusion” that surrounds us.

2Th 2:10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
2Th 2:11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
2Th 2:12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

2Co 11:10 As the truth of Christ is in me, no man shall stop me of this boasting in the regions of Achaia.
2Co 11:11 Wherefore? because I love you not? God knoweth.
2Co 11:12 But what I do, that I will do, that I may cut off occasion from them which desire occasion; that wherein they glory, they may be found even as we.
2Co 11:13 For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.
2Co 11:14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.
2Co 11:15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.


5 posted on 03/10/2013 12:16:54 PM PDT by patlin ("Knowledge is a powerful source that is 2nd to none but God" ConstitutionallySpeaking 2011)
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To: patlin

Worship on Saturday or go to hell? It’s not like that’s a novel claim.

Welcome to the world of legalism. Do women have to wear head coverings?


6 posted on 03/10/2013 12:25:39 PM PDT by delacoert
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To: patlin

Ping for later


7 posted on 03/10/2013 12:33:04 PM PDT by Alex Murphy ("If you are not firm in faith, you will not be firm at all" - Isaiah 7:9)
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To: patlin

It would be awesome if this article contained a statement that makes it clear what this guy’s beef is with Hoggard, whom I’ve never heard of.


8 posted on 03/10/2013 12:35:37 PM PDT by ChocChipCookie
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To: delacoert
I'm not here to judge or to convert like some are. I am merely here to let Him, God, speak His truth with the power of His Word that put on flesh.

Messiah is the ONLY head covering one needs so you can dispense with the sarcasm as it will not work on me.

9 posted on 03/10/2013 12:36:13 PM PDT by patlin ("Knowledge is a powerful source that is 2nd to none but God" ConstitutionallySpeaking 2011)
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To: ChocChipCookie

Aee March 5th radio broadcast archive

http://www.sasolo.com/search.asp?sortby=added&sourceonly=true&currSection=sermonssource&keyword=bethel&subsetcat=series&subsetitem=Pastor+Mike+Online+Archives


10 posted on 03/10/2013 12:40:46 PM PDT by patlin ("Knowledge is a powerful source that is 2nd to none but God" ConstitutionallySpeaking 2011)
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To: patlin
Here is an analysis of the Sabbath that conforms to my personal view. http://www.apostolic.edu/biblestudy/files/4th-com.htm
11 posted on 03/10/2013 12:48:29 PM PDT by SubMareener (Save us from Quarterly Freepathons! Become a MONTHLY DONOR!)
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To: ChocChipCookie

So, you mean to tell me that you are going to act like you did not know that was the Anti-Mike Hoggard Freerepublic.com thread?


12 posted on 03/10/2013 12:50:54 PM PDT by job
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To: patlin

Here is a novel idea..

talk to the people who not only wrote the bible, but have studied it for over 2 millenium..

Talk to a Catholic Priest...


13 posted on 03/10/2013 1:23:10 PM PDT by joe fonebone (The clueless... they walk among us, and they vote...)
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To: patlin
My father grew up on a farm in Eastern Ontario early in the last century (Born 1898). His mother would prepare their Sunday meals on Saturday because they believed that no work should be done on the Sunday Sabbath. As you posted this article on Sunday, would this not be considered as 'work'?

In the Sermon on the Mount, Jesus shows us that keeping The Ten Commandments is impossible because of our sin nature. In Matthew 5:48, Jesus says, "Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect." Is this possible? We cannot live perfectly according to these laws of our own volition. We can strive for this, but we will fail, without absolute dependence on, and surrender to the Holy Spirit, but I do not believe that we are capable of such dependence at ALL TIMES. After all, Paul writes in Romans 7:19, "For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.", so even he fails! Remember, even Peter denied the Lord three times, breaking the ninth commandment thrice, before His crucifixion!

All that we can do is to learn to live more closely to His Will through discerning the Holy Spirit and more importantly, heeding and yielding to what the Holy Spirit says. We are Christians, we are not Christ, but we do need to grow in our Christ-likeness.

14 posted on 03/10/2013 1:24:24 PM PDT by A Formerly Proud Canadian (I once was lost but now I'm found; blind but now I see.)
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To: A Formerly Proud Canadian

Darn it. I can’t find the word Saturday in the Bible.


15 posted on 03/10/2013 1:28:18 PM PDT by AppyPappy (If you aren't part of the solution, there is good money to be made prolonging the problem.)
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To: SubMareener

Pro 14:12 There is a way which seems right to a man, But its end is the way of death1. Footnote: 1See 16:25.

2Ti 4:2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.
2Ti 4:3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears,1 Footnote: 1Isa. 30:10, Jer. 5:31, Rom. 16:18.
2Ti 4:4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables

Jesus didn’t choose which day to rest and He never taught that after He died and resurrected that it would be ok for us to do what we think is right regardless of what the Father says. Jesus taught that we are all, including Him, subject to the ‘will of the Father’.

Rom 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
Rom 6:17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.
Rom 6:18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.


16 posted on 03/10/2013 1:31:02 PM PDT by patlin ("Knowledge is a powerful source that is 2nd to none but God" ConstitutionallySpeaking 2011)
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To: joe fonebone
I have and he confirmed that everything I had been following was the doctrines and traditions of men who claim to have been given authority to change the Word of God when God has said nothing of the sort but warned us against listening to and following such men.
17 posted on 03/10/2013 1:32:54 PM PDT by patlin ("Knowledge is a powerful source that is 2nd to none but God" ConstitutionallySpeaking 2011)
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To: patlin

I guess you better not shuck and eat corn on the Sabbath then...then again an all day fast(fasting might be considered a ‘work’ done on the Sabbath) never hurt anyone...oh and no water! I’ll get your cow out of the ditch for you if I can keep half of it for my freezer!

Hey, I guess all males should be circumcised, right...that is if they want to be “following all of Christ’s commandments”!

I agree about the “pastor” in question, he certainly sounds bizarre. Paul never did say not to keep the Sabbath, he just states that “some may esteem one day more than others” but that wasn’t something to get in a quibble over. Some have stronger faith and some have weaker faith!


18 posted on 03/10/2013 1:35:07 PM PDT by mdmathis6 (Rest assured, Mankind is loved....both completely and severely!)
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To: job

How could I resist reading a post with the words LIAR and FALSE PROPHET in the headline? LOL


19 posted on 03/10/2013 1:36:51 PM PDT by ChocChipCookie
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To: patlin; delacoert

Yeah well, we’re not so sure that you have Messiah’s “BLOOD” covering that legalistic pride of yours!

“Take heed lest YOU FALL!”


20 posted on 03/10/2013 1:37:54 PM PDT by mdmathis6 (Rest assured, Mankind is loved....both completely and severely!)
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To: A Formerly Proud Canadian

My aunt and uncle were strict observers of the Sabbath but they let the maid cook on Sunday. I never thought that made any sense.

I’m really not critisizing them because the maid was an older woman who would have been homeless without them and they also had a gardener who would have been the same, they worked there and lived there also.


21 posted on 03/10/2013 1:38:45 PM PDT by tiki
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To: patlin

Hi Pat... With me everyday is the sabbath.. all 7 of them..

You can choose one of them though.. say Monday.. better that than nothing..
OK.. Saturday... I’m easy to get along with.. 6 UNholy days is a choice..

Quite entertaining to “watch” arguing over which day should be Holy..
I would add a “secret word” though.. If you say the secret word you get a “gift”..

With me I don’t judge which day is best.. BUT I do grade the responses and reasons for the choice..


22 posted on 03/10/2013 1:39:56 PM PDT by hosepipe (This propaganda has been edited to include some fully orbed hyperbole..)
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To: A Formerly Proud Canadian
No, writing on the Sabbath (Saturday) is not work unless it is ones profession in which they get paid for. Sunday is not the biblical Sabbath so writing on Sunday for or not for money is not ‘sin’ according to God. What you are citing is rabbinic oral law that Jesus and the disciples as well as Paul were always fighting against.

Also, perfection is never been about the flesh, but about the heart. God knows the flesh is prone to sin due to the sin if Adam and that is why He gave us the covenant of the promise of a Redeemer. And now that the Redeemer has resurrected, we have an advocate before the Father that covers our sins as long as in our hearts we are doing our best to obey the Father as the Son obeyed the Father.

Deu 8:2 And thou shalt remember all the way which the LORD thy God led thee these forty years in the wilderness, to humble thee, and to prove thee, to know what was in thine heart, whether thou wouldest keep his commandments, or no.
Deu 8:3 And he humbled thee, and suffered thee to hunger, and fed thee with manna, which thou knewest not, neither did thy fathers know; that he might make thee know that man doth not live by bread only, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of the LORD doth man live.

23 posted on 03/10/2013 1:42:02 PM PDT by patlin ("Knowledge is a powerful source that is 2nd to none but God" ConstitutionallySpeaking 2011)
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To: mdmathis6
I guess you better not shuck and eat corn on the Sabbath then ...

I guess I am a breaker of rabbinic law then, but thank God, rabbinic law has no authority over me as rabbinic law has no real authority at all according to he Word of God.

24 posted on 03/10/2013 1:48:09 PM PDT by patlin ("Knowledge is a powerful source that is 2nd to none but God" ConstitutionallySpeaking 2011)
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To: ChocChipCookie

It might be a good idea to let us all know where this most evil man in the world is at, so we can avoid him, whatever he’s done. I’m not sure but liar and false prophet are capitalized so it must be bad.


25 posted on 03/10/2013 1:48:23 PM PDT by wrcase
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To: joe fonebone; navymom1; Pat4ever; RIghtwardHo; Reaganite Republican; Clintons Are White Trash; ...
+

Freep-mail me to get on or off my pro-life and Catholic List:

Add me / Remove me

Please ping me to note-worthy Pro-Life or Catholic threads, or other threads of general interest.

26 posted on 03/10/2013 1:49:04 PM PDT by narses
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To: mdmathis6

legalistic pride is keeping Sunday sacred and set apart instead of His given Sabbath day, the seventh day of the week.


27 posted on 03/10/2013 1:49:48 PM PDT by patlin ("Knowledge is a powerful source that is 2nd to none but God" ConstitutionallySpeaking 2011)
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To: patlin

I’ll will say again, I’m not so sure, despite whatever ‘covering” you claim you may have on your head, that your pride has been blood cleansed by the Lamb! In the end only you would know that for sure...I guess!


28 posted on 03/10/2013 1:52:02 PM PDT by mdmathis6 (Rest assured, Mankind is loved....both completely and severely!)
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To: mdmathis6

Keeping the Ten Commandments is legalitic?

“If you love me you will keep my commandments.”


29 posted on 03/10/2013 1:59:21 PM PDT by ladyL
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To: mdmathis6

Keeping the Ten Commandments is legalitic?

“If you love me you will keep my commandments.”


30 posted on 03/10/2013 1:59:22 PM PDT by ladyL
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To: joe fonebone

Here is a novel idea.. talk to the people who not only wrote the bible, but have studied it for over 2 millenium.. Talk to a Catholic Priest...


The people who wrote the bible were (( Jews )).. not roman catholics.. or easterns or russians either..
They also were not christians..

Jesus also was not a christian.. but a Jew.. and not a roman catholic.. the apostles were also JEWS..

Jesus never every said read the bible.. because there were no bibles to read..
WHY?... because most all people couldn’t read at all, anyway..
Thats why they had “scribes”... thats what they did.. (read and write)..

Did you know Jesus name was not Jesus?..
Hebrew and Greek have no “J”... the “J” comes from latin..
The name Jesus was invented by the Romans..


31 posted on 03/10/2013 1:59:57 PM PDT by hosepipe (This propaganda has been edited to include some fully orbed hyperbole..)
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To: mdmathis6
And I will say that I have absolutely no clue what you are even trying to suggest. I have no illusion as to my status with God and I now that the “blood of the lamb” ONLY covers me when I come to the door so I can enter through the door. Really, why did Jesus tells us to be careful lest our crown be taken away if we couldn’t loose it by some action on our part?
32 posted on 03/10/2013 2:01:56 PM PDT by patlin ("Knowledge is a powerful source that is 2nd to none but God" ConstitutionallySpeaking 2011)
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To: hosepipe

According to Scripture there are only 2 choices, love for God the Father which brings forth the good fruit of obedience or the other choice which does not show love for God the Father but love for ones own ways of ones selfish heart.

Jer 17:9 The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?
Jer 17:10 I the LORD search the heart, I try the reins, even to give every man according to his ways, and according to the fruit of his doings.


33 posted on 03/10/2013 2:08:59 PM PDT by patlin ("Knowledge is a powerful source that is 2nd to none but God" ConstitutionallySpeaking 2011)
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To: mdmathis6
Paul never did say not to keep the Sabbath, he just states that “some may esteem one day more than others”

You will not find the word ‘Sabbath’ anywhere in Rm 14. The entire chapter is about fasting, one may fast on Monday and another may fast on Tuesday, etc, etc and we are to respect whatever day one chooses as their ‘fast to the LORD’. The Sabbath of God is a feast day, not a fast day. It was Roman Cristendom that changed His feast day into a fast day according to her council canons.

Fasting was a great controversy back then as the religious elites of Judaism had made laws setting aside specific days for fasting and anyone who did not follow their oral laws, their ‘dogma’ were subject to being fined and possibly even kept from entering the Temple of God as a punishment.

34 posted on 03/10/2013 2:18:34 PM PDT by patlin ("Knowledge is a powerful source that is 2nd to none but God" ConstitutionallySpeaking 2011)
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To: ladyL; patlin

No, but presuming to establish the metrics by how well another keeps the commandments and judging another by one’s own standard of “commandment keeping” can lead to Christ saying to one’s conscience..” How can you presume to tell your neighbor to get the slivers out of his eye when you haven’t taken the logs out your own eye?”

We can’t even keep the commandments on our own or have the perfect wisdom to know when such would apply or other such not apply without the work of the Holy Spirit in our hearts! Yet I’ll give you a clue......it has to do with Love and grace!

Yes HELLOOOOOOOOO! I’ve seen no mention of the active work of the Holy Spirit who “writes God’s laws in our hearts” in this discussion thus far.


35 posted on 03/10/2013 2:20:54 PM PDT by mdmathis6 (Rest assured, Mankind is loved....both completely and severely!)
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To: patlin

Really, why did Jesus tells us to be careful lest our crown be taken away if we couldn’t loose it by some action on our part?


Authority does not come from the crown.. without “the Crown” you are still the King.. if you are..
It is a matter of WHO YOU ARE not what your wearing..

But if you are not King “losing the Crown” mocks the illusion that you are..
What you do or do not do... does not adjust whether you are King or not..
You either are or you are NOT..

If God made you King and then rescinded it.. then God is a doofus..
Many Gods on this planet are doofusi..


36 posted on 03/10/2013 2:21:36 PM PDT by hosepipe (This propaganda has been edited to include some fully orbed hyperbole..)
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To: joe fonebone
talk to the people who not only wrote the bible, but have studied it for over 2 millenium.. Talk to a Catholic Priest...

There are priests over 2000 years old???

37 posted on 03/10/2013 2:26:16 PM PDT by Uncle Chip
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To: patlin

According to Scripture there are only 2 choices, love for God the Father which brings forth the good fruit of obedience or the other choice which does not show love for God the Father but love for ones own ways of ones selfish heart.


Non Sequester!.. are you projecting?.. making a statement.. ranting?.. are you starting a new conversation?..
Course you could be changing the subject.. which I wouldn’t blame you..
You might be in over your head here..


38 posted on 03/10/2013 2:28:47 PM PDT by hosepipe (This propaganda has been edited to include some fully orbed hyperbole..)
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To: hosepipe

crown = prize, the blessing of having His Name upon us. It is not literal, it is spiritual.


39 posted on 03/10/2013 2:35:49 PM PDT by patlin ("Knowledge is a powerful source that is 2nd to none but God" ConstitutionallySpeaking 2011)
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To: mdmathis6

Did I judge? NO! Speaking the Word of God is not judging, it is called edifying.

1Th 5:4 But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.
1Th 5:5 Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness.
1Th 5:6 Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober.
1Th 5:7 For they that sleep sleep in the night; and they that be drunken are drunken in the night.
1Th 5:8 But let us, who are of the day, be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love; and for an helmet, the hope of salvation.
1Th 5:9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,
1Th 5:10 Who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him.
1Th 5:11 Wherefore comfort yourselves together, and edify one another, even as also ye do.


40 posted on 03/10/2013 2:38:55 PM PDT by patlin ("Knowledge is a powerful source that is 2nd to none but God" ConstitutionallySpeaking 2011)
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To: patlin

crown = prize, the blessing of having His Name upon us. It is not literal, it is spiritual.


Nice theory.. so the Crown is not real but metaphorical?..
I agree... wonder what ELSE is metaphorical in the New Testament?.. i.e. the Sabbath.. born again.. water and wine.. etc..

Interesting subject that!... could make a good conversation..
The literalists(arians) would hate it though..


41 posted on 03/10/2013 2:41:42 PM PDT by hosepipe (This propaganda has been edited to include some fully orbed hyperbole..)
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To: hosepipe
How many ‘Ways’ do the Scriptures speak of? Two, His Way and the way of disobedience. We have a choice to make and the lie that the "Hoggards" of the world preach is that there is third way when there is not. This is not my truth, it is His Truth, the Truth that put on flesh and died for our sins so that we could go and sin no more.
42 posted on 03/10/2013 2:42:59 PM PDT by patlin ("Knowledge is a powerful source that is 2nd to none but God" ConstitutionallySpeaking 2011)
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To: patlin

The author appears to be either drunk, or on some drug.

The sentences don’t hang together to yield a coherent thought anywhere in the article.

Is this really the way it was published?

Get the behind me Satan!


43 posted on 03/10/2013 2:45:41 PM PDT by editor-surveyor (Freepers: Not as smart as I'd hoped they'd be)
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To: hosepipe
Job 2:7 So went Satan forth from the presence of the LORD, and smote Job with sore boils from the sole of his foot unto his crown.
Job 19:9 He hath stripped me of my glory, and taken the crown from my head.

Lam 5:16 The crown is fallen from our head: woe unto us, that we have sinned!

Rev 2:10 Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life.

Rev 3:11 Behold, I come quickly: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown.

44 posted on 03/10/2013 2:47:52 PM PDT by patlin ("Knowledge is a powerful source that is 2nd to none but God" ConstitutionallySpeaking 2011)
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To: patlin; ladyL

The big issue with the “Sabbath is none of us ultimately know if the Saturday or Sunday that some us may call the Sabbath (or not)...is actually the Sabbath. It wouldn’t surprise me that God’s resting day occurred on what we would call..a Thursday! God covenanted via the Decalog that the 7th day should be kept as the Sabbath...the 7th day would have been what ever the Hebrews called it based on time keeping used in Egypt before they left it. There was no mention of Abraham and the earlier Patriarchs keeping a special day called the Sabbath...none that I saw in the Bible.

As for the record lets actually look at Romans 14:

14 Accept the one whose faith is weak, without quarreling over disputable matters. 2 One person’s faith allows them to eat anything, but another, whose faith is weak, eats only vegetables. 3 The one who eats everything must not treat with contempt the one who does not, and the one who does not eat everything must not judge the one who does, for God has accepted them. 4 Who are you to judge someone else’s servant? To their own master, servants stand or fall. And they will stand, for the Lord is able to make them stand.

5 One person considers one day more sacred than another; another considers every day alike. Each of them should be fully convinced in their own mind. 6 Whoever regards one day as special does so to the Lord. Whoever eats meat does so to the Lord, for they give thanks to God; and whoever abstains does so to the Lord and gives thanks to God. 7 For none of us lives for ourselves alone, and none of us dies for ourselves alone. 8 If we live, we live for the Lord; and if we die, we die for the Lord. So, whether we live or die, we belong to the Lord. 9 For this very reason, Christ died and returned to life so that he might be the Lord of both the dead and the living.

10 You, then, why do you judge your brother or sister[a]? Or why do you treat them with contempt? For we will all stand before God’s judgment seat. 11 It is written:

“‘As surely as I live,’ says the Lord,
‘every knee will bow before me;
every tongue will acknowledge God.’”[b]

12 So then, each of us will give an account of ourselves to God.

13 Therefore let us stop passing judgment on one another. Instead, make up your mind not to put any stumbling block or obstacle in the way of a brother or sister. 14 I am convinced, being fully persuaded in the Lord Jesus, that nothing is unclean in itself. But if anyone regards something as unclean, then for that person it is unclean. 15 If your brother or sister is distressed because of what you eat, you are no longer acting in love. Do not by your eating destroy someone for whom Christ died. 16 Therefore do not let what you know is good be spoken of as evil. 17 For the kingdom of God is not a matter of eating and drinking, but of righteousness, peace and joy in the Holy Spirit, 18 because anyone who serves Christ in this way is pleasing to God and receives human approval.

19 Let us therefore make every effort to do what leads to peace and to mutual edification. 20 Do not destroy the work of God for the sake of food. All food is clean, but it is wrong for a person to eat anything that causes someone else to stumble. 21 It is better not to eat meat or drink wine or to do anything else that will cause your brother or sister to fall.

22 So whatever you believe about these things keep between yourself and God. Blessed is the one who does not condemn himself by what he approves. 23 But whoever has doubts is condemned if they eat, because their eating is not from faith; and everything that does not come from faith is sin.[c]”

There is only an oblique reference to fasting in verse 5 of that chapter about fasting; that is,”FEASTING or Abstaining” as conscience may dictate. Verse 5 refers not necessarily about feasting or fasting, but about special days to be kept based on one’s on conscience on the matter. Since even by your own words, the Sabbath is a “feast” day; then, according to Romans 14, we shouldn’t even be arguing over the technicalities of WHEN or how for that matter or what should be consumed or not consumed!
Keeping the Sabbath on a Saturday or a Sunday is a Faith thing, a conscience thing. Roman’s 14 doesn’t support your position at all!


45 posted on 03/10/2013 2:48:26 PM PDT by mdmathis6 (Rest assured, Mankind is loved....both completely and severely!)
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To: editor-surveyor

Those who can’t speak to that which is written are those that really have anything useful to speak but just like to hear themselves speak.


46 posted on 03/10/2013 2:49:30 PM PDT by patlin ("Knowledge is a powerful source that is 2nd to none but God" ConstitutionallySpeaking 2011)
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To: editor-surveyor
Correction: Those who can’t speak to that which is written are those that really do not have anything useful to speak but just like to hear themselves speak.
47 posted on 03/10/2013 2:50:30 PM PDT by patlin ("Knowledge is a powerful source that is 2nd to none but God" ConstitutionallySpeaking 2011)
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To: patlin
Well, the article you posted was muddy, not very informative; therefore not very edifying!
48 posted on 03/10/2013 2:51:38 PM PDT by mdmathis6 (Rest assured, Mankind is loved....both completely and severely!)
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To: delacoert

>> “Welcome to the world of legalism.” <<

.
Obedience to YHVH is not legalism.

Legalism is the belief that you can save yourself through works and the adherance to the law.

Yeshua commanded the we keep the sabbath, and he did so himself, as did all of his disciples and his apostles. Every convocation written of in the NT was a keeping of a sabbath.


49 posted on 03/10/2013 2:51:43 PM PDT by editor-surveyor (Freepers: Not as smart as I'd hoped they'd be)
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To: mdmathis6

You still have yet to show where Paul speaks the word “Sabbath” in all this talk of his about fasting. Again, the Sabbath was not and never will be a day of fasting as it is His day of celebrating all that He created. It is a day of joy, NOT a day of sorrow. For that He gave us the 10th day of the Seventh month, the Day of Atonement.


50 posted on 03/10/2013 2:53:46 PM PDT by patlin ("Knowledge is a powerful source that is 2nd to none but God" ConstitutionallySpeaking 2011)
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