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Pastor Mike Hoggard of Bethel Church - A LIAR and FALSE PROPHET!
ConstitutionallySpeaking ^ | March 10, 2013 | ConstitutionallySpeaking

Posted on 03/10/2013 11:58:35 AM PDT by patlin

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To: ladyL

“Gideon arrived just as a man was telling a friend his dream. “I had a dream,” he was saying. “A round loaf of barley bread came tumbling into the Midianite camp. It struck the tent with such force that the tent overturned and collapsed.”

Judges 7:13

Threw that in there for scriptural reference. I wonder if your friend was familiar with that verse from past readings of Judges.

A deeply rooted and established tree being struck by a barley loaf and catching flame a is a very significant image.

In the case of Judges, it was Gideon leading 300 men of Israel who was the “Barley loaf” that destroyed Midian’s army.

Perhaps God has chosen a new spiritual Gideon to arise to rally our dispirited churches so that we might with power confront the evils of our age..until Jesus comes!

Perhaps Israel is about to confront some of her more intransigent enemies and destroy them utterly!

Just possibilities to pray about...not interpretations...only God can grant interpretations to dreams.


201 posted on 03/18/2013 6:34:05 AM PDT by mdmathis6 (Rest assured, Mankind is loved....both completely and severely!)
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To: ladyL
Speaking of Abib. A lady at our last bible study said she had a strange dream...very short and I think prophetical. She saw someone throw a loaf of BARLEY bread into a massive tree and it burst into huge flames.

Any thought?

I am sorry, but it is a point of discipline for me that I do not attempt to interpret anything from afar - What I get from personal vision has as much to do with the delivery of that vision (The account thereof, the attitude and emotional reactions of the recipient and those hearing, etc) as it has to do with the elements of the vision itself. It isn't that I don't believe in interpreting visions, but more that I ain't really very good at it unless I can participate in such a thing IRL (in real life) : )

That being said, the elements of the vision/dream seem to be chock-full of prophetic earmarks. My recommendation would be to bring it before a local elder, or submit it to your assembly to seek an interpretation. These things are far better handled at the local level. YMMV.

202 posted on 03/18/2013 2:39:03 PM PDT by roamer_1 (Globalism is just socialism in a business suit.)
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To: mdmathis6

OK just talked to Grace, the lady with the dream. Will write it again as my memory is fresh...

Grace saw Jesus standing under a large/huge tree. He had a loaf of BARLEY bread in his hand and he threw it up into the tree...when he did the entire tree burst into flames.

There, that is the dream. Remember she KNEW it was Barley and no, she was not familiar of Judges 7.


203 posted on 03/18/2013 2:51:52 PM PDT by ladyL
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To: tiki

Sabbath goy—one who works for Jews on Saturdays.


204 posted on 03/18/2013 2:55:50 PM PDT by Mamzelle
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To: ladyL

Your friend couldn’t remember if the tree was being burned or not being burned while aflame or perhaps that’s all she saw, that is just the initial flames as a brief image before waking up?

Consumption implies judgment...a tree aflame while not being burned would imply empowerment, purification, or revival(Moses before the burning bush)... and that is as far as I would dare go!


205 posted on 03/18/2013 4:26:30 PM PDT by mdmathis6 (Rest assured, Mankind is loved....both completely and severely!)
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To: patlin
The 4th Commandment... rest on the Sabbath day.

Didn't Jesus say that man was not made for the Sabbath, but the Sabbath was made for the man. ?

When the bible tells us that God rested after he created the heavens and the earth in 6 days and on the 7th day he rested it means, all that God wanted to create was finished, no adding to it, no taking away.
Same thing when Jesus said " it is finished " .
The book of Hebrews tells us to be fearful of one thing ? least you don't enter into the rest of God.
Jesus Christ is our Sabbath.... all the work that God requires, all the demands, Jesus Christ finished it for us... in our stead.
No human can make him or her self holy in God's eyes, what Jesus meant by " be perfect for your father in heaven is perfect " is ? becoming born again, believing on Christ for your salvation, God's holiness is the gift he gives to us.
IN Christ we are made perfect, holy in God's eyes.
So yes, in effect Mike Hoggard is right, all the righteous demands, all the law requires was nailed to the cross because God killed the power of sin in the flesh by nailing it to the cross.
Saint Paul said that, had he not known the law he would not have known what sin is.
God's law is God's guilty verdict to us, all of us are made guilty in the sight of God's Law.... and no one can escape it, nor can anyone be made holy or righteous by keeping the law... so the solution was ? God sent his son Jesus Christ.
So you want to keep the law as God would have us to keep it perfectly and whole ? complete ? put on Christ, believe in Christ, and trust in Christ Jesus for your salvation.
But, we get those who say " yeah, but even the demons believe " ..... the problem is ? Jesus Christ didn't redeemed the fallen angels, nor did he die on the cross for them, nor can any fallen angel, that's what demons are, nor can demons become born again.... God decided their fate long before the world was created.
IN Christ, God took our guilty verdict and turned it into " NOT GUITLY " ... for we are the righteousness of God in Christ Jesus.

Jesus said be perfect for your father in heaven is perfect... how ? the imputed righteousness of Christ Jesus, that's how.

So now then ? our true Sabbath ? our true rest in God is ? Jesus Christ...
206 posted on 07/14/2013 3:19:41 AM PDT by American Constitutionalist
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To: American Constitutionalist
Titus 2:11 For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men, 12 teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly in the present age, 13 looking for the blessed hope and glorious appearing of our great God and Savior Yeshua Messiah, 14 who gave Himself for us, that He might redeem us from lawlessness and to purify for Himself His own special people, zealous for good works.

The Son, the Word of God therefore the Living Law of God reminded us of the fate of those who continue in disobedience.

John 3:36 “He who believes in the Son has everlasting life; and he who does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.”

1Pet 2:21 For to this you were called, because Messiah also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that you should follow His steps: 22 “Who committed no sin, nor was deceit found in His mouth”

Heb 4:6 Since therefore it remains that some must enter it, and those to whom it was first preached did not enter because of disobedience, 7 again He designates a certain day, saying in David, “Today,” after such a long time, as it has been said: “Today, if you will hear His voice, do not harden your hearts.”[Ps 95:7-8; 1Cor 10:1-11] 8 For if Joshua had given them rest, then He would not afterward have spoken of another day. 9 There remains therefore a Sabbath keeping for the people of God. 10 For he who has entered His rest has himself also ceased from his works as God did from His.

Unless one is dead and in the grave, ones work is not done. Therefore, the Sabbath command was not done away with in Messiah, but rather filled with meaning in Messiah.

207 posted on 07/14/2013 12:30:00 PM PDT by patlin ("Knowledge is a powerful source that is 2nd to none but God" ConstitutionallySpeaking 2011)
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To: patlin
The Sabbath commandment was fulfilled in Christ on our behalf.
Those who are in Christ have already satisfied God's righteous demands and satisfied God's justice.

The great big lie that the devil told Eve was that if they partake of the thing that God forbade : i.e. the tree of the knowledge of good and evil..... knowing the difference between what sin is, and what sin is not, that in that day that they shall not surely die, for God knows that in that day that Adam and Eve will become like God.

The law shows us that we are guilty before God, that we have failed, and that we can not become like God in our own efforts.
God said be ye holy for I am holy.

Jesus said, be ye perfect for our father in heaven is perfect.


The problem is ?

We can never become what God requires of us on our own, in our own efforts..
Jesus Christ himself said in Matthew 5:20 " For I say unto you, except that your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, you shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven..


WOW ! that's a real tall order.
Jesus Christ right there set a very high bar and standard didn't he ?

Now ?

Who can live a life that where their righteousness exceeds even that of the Jewish Scribes and Pharisees of his day ?

Anyone ?

Impossible.


So what is Jesus Christ actually saying here ?


It's impossible for man on his own to reach that standard that God has set to enter into heaven.

There is only one way.... it's through the blood of Christ.


That's the carnality of man's mind, that man can become like God on his own, in his own efforts.

That's what happen at the tower of babble.


The only way to become what God requires of us is in Christ, and in Christ alone.


In the true sense of the Gospel of Jesus Christ, what separates Christianity from all the rest of the world's religions is that all the other religions require you to appease God, works are a requirement to enter heaven.

In the true sense of the Gospel, Christianity is unique in that God himself came in the flesh, to die in our stead to save us.
We didn't appease him, he came to die the death that we deserved, he came to take the punishment that we deserved.

Man's carnal mind tells man , that some how, some way, man has to put his hand to the plow and make a effort by his works to earn his way to heaven.
The natural mind of man without God's holy spirit is called " Carnal " .... that's where we get the word carnivorous, carnivore i.e. meaty.
For the the natural man ( religious, carnal ) can not receive the things of the spirit of God.
Here's the scripture.
King James Bible: 1 Corinthians 2:14

But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

The natural unsaved, not born again man thinks in his natural carnal mind.
For the natural man thinketh that he must some how earn his way into heaven by his works.
That's what is called man made " Religion " .... and Religion is what Crucified Christ to the cross.

God's law tells us, that we are all guilty and no matter how much we try we fail.


This is what Pastor Mike Hoggard was talking about by nailing the 4th Commandment to the cross.... yes, it's there, in the bible, in the scriptures....

Colossians 2:14

King James

14. Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

Here is what Saint Paul had to say about the " LAW " that was written on stones.... the only law that was written on stones was the 10 Commandmants...
The reason why it was written on stones is became God wanted to show that it was a unrevocable, unchangeable, permanent condemnation, verdict against mankind against a holy God.
This is what Saint Paul had to say being inspired by the holy spirit.
And the only reason why some people bulk and reject this is because they are resisting the holy spirit.

2 Corinthians 3:7

King James

But if the ministry of death, written and engraved in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not steadfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:

Did you read that ? the law, the 10 commandments, was the ministry of death, written and engraved in stones.
" Which glory was to be done away "

That was the old covenant of God between God and the nation of Israel.... where in the bible does God demand that the gentile nations keep the 10 Commandments ?
That was exclusively between God and the nation of Israel.
God was going to create a new and better covenant that was going to be everlasting between him and all of mankind.
208 posted on 07/15/2013 8:52:20 PM PDT by American Constitutionalist
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To: American Constitutionalist
Rom 3:31 Do we then nullify the Law through the belief? Let it not be! On the contrary, we establish the Torah.

2Th 2:11 And for this reason God sends them a working of delusion, for them to believe the falsehood, 12 in order that all should be judged who did not believe the truth, but have delighted in the unrighteousness.

2Ti 4:3 For there shall be a time when they shall not bear sound teaching, but according to their own desires, they shall heap up for themselves teachers tickling the ear, 4 and they shall indeed turn their ears away from the truth, and be turned aside to myths.

1Pe 2:21 For to this you were called, because Messiah also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that you should follow His steps,See: 11 Cor. 11:1, 1 John 2:6 22 “who committed no sin, nor was deceit found in His mouth,”See: 1John 8:55, John 15:10, 2 Cor. 5:21, John 3:5, Isa.53:9

209 posted on 07/16/2013 11:06:15 AM PDT by patlin ("Knowledge is a powerful source that is 2nd to none but God" ConstitutionallySpeaking 2011)
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To: patlin
" who did not believe the truth "

Those who reject " THE TRUTH " of the Gospel... that's what that verse is talking about.... and it has nothing to do with keeping the law or doing good works.
On the contrary, those who think that they are justified by doing good works, by keeping the law will get their way into heaven are the ones who are deluded, who believe the lie of man made religion.


And what truth may that be ?

The truth of the Gospel.

John 1:17

King James
For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.

Grace and Truth came by Jesus Christ, Yeshua Messiah.

You can't separate the two, grace from truth.
See the ( and ) in there ?

It's a conjunction word that ties both together.
Grace and Truth is a person, Jesus Christ, no wonder why they called it: THE GOSPLE OF JESUS CHRIST.....
Gospel, means, God's word....
The Gospel is the good news of God's salvation in Jesus Christ.... there is no other way.... not even " good works " , or keeping the law.

Most CULTS require you to do good works, or keep the law apart from Jesus Christ, or some mixture of both apart from God's grace.
Most CULTS are ruled by a iron rod dogma that you must do this, must do that, must keep the law to get into heaven.
It's a form of control over another human being.
Yes, study it yourself.... most CULTs preach, and teach about doing good works and keeping the law.


In the New Testament ?


Where you see " unrighteousness " ? ungodly ?

Are those who are not either born again and are not in Christ, or have not yet been born again yet, or those who reject Christ and God's way of salvation.

Doing " good works " and keeping the law ? but reject God's way of salvation ?
Those are workers of unrighteousness, iniquity.

A different Gospel ?

Paul says if either a man or a angel who preaches another Gospel then what he preached ?

Let him be accursed.

He brought that up twice in the book of Galations.

Go read it your self, Paul says in the book of Galations in chapter 2 or 3 that no man is made righteous by keeping the law..... go read it, it's there.... in your own bible.

Those who are in Christ now have been made righteous, holy, justified.


You can trow as many scriptures at me all you want about keeping the law for justification, or salvation, but the bible clearly shows that we are saved by grace through faith.

Saint Paul even said in the book of Galatians that no man is made justified in the sight of God by the law.

Unrighteousness ? is rejecting Jesus Christ and his blood atonement.

Those who think and believe that their works will get them into heaven are the one's who have believed the lie of religion..... and are trying to " justify them selves before God without God's blood atoning sacrifice that is in Christ Jesus.

Have you forgotten ?

That the nation of Israel, after a whole year of trying to keep the law that the high priest still had to bring a spotless lamb before God to atone for their sins ? ... yes, it's in there, in your own bible, I am not making this up.... yes, it's in there, a blood atonement yearly by the high preist to God to atone for their sins...
Go read the whole book of Hebrews, that was ? written to ? you guessed it, to the HEBREWS ! wow.

It didn't matter how many good works they did, or how well they kept the law, God still required a blood sacrifice to cover their sins for that year.

I am not going to even get into the foolish argument that some will say " ohh grace is not a excuse to sin as much as you want ".

THE only reason why some want to say that is because those who do say that want to try to justify them selves before God by their works and keeping the law without the blood.
Yup, that's correct, that want to justify themselves before God by their works, deeds, and keeping the law without God's blood atonement in Christ Jesus.
They think, and say " see God how good I keep your laws better than them ? see God how I am so deserving of being in heaven more than them ? .... " yup, it's called PRIDE.

I hate to tell you this, but, Jesus Christ is going to reject those " good works " and say " I never knew you "

They will say at the last day " LORD , LORD, but, didn't we do this, didn't we do that in your name, didn't we keep the law, didn't we do good deeds."

210 posted on 07/17/2013 12:25:11 AM PDT by American Constitutionalist
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To: patlin
Yes, I noticed that you put in there the scripture bible verse 2 Th 2:11 : 2Th 2:11 And for this reason God sends them a working of delusion, for them to believe the falsehood, 12 in order that all should be judged who did not believe the truth, but have delighted in the unrighteousness.........

Making religious dogma out of cherry picking selected bible verse and not putting it into it's proper context.


Here it is in it's proper contextual meaning, and what the writer meant.


Well, now, we need to go back to the beginning of those whole chapter, shall we ?



Hope you don't mind me just using just the King James Version ?


2 Thessalonians 1 (Authorized (King James) Version)

1. Paul, and Silvanus, and Timotheus, unto the church of the Thessalonians in God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ: 2. grace unto you, and peace, from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ. ( ahh yes, there's that dreaded word of the law preachers, works preachers.... GRACE ... Paul says, Grace unto you ... now that's a good start of this bible book ).... he didn't say... Works be unto you, or the keeping of the law be unto you..... didn't he ?

He also says... PEACE.... be at rest.... Sabbath.

3. We are bound to thank God always for you, brethren, as it is meet, because that your faith groweth exceedingly, and the charity of every one of you all toward each other aboundeth;
4. so that we ourselves glory in you in the churches of God for your patience and faith in all your persecutions and tribulations that ye endure: ( perhaps ? they were being persecuted by those who are " RELIGIOUS " Jewish and non Jewish...... naa.. can't be ).
5. which is a manifest token of the righteous judgment of God, that ye may be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which ye also suffer:
6. seeing it is a righteous thing with God to recompense tribulation to them that trouble you; ( wait a minute ? is says that God will pay recompense to those who are persecuting his church... God will judge those who are " Religious " ).
7. and to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
8. in flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:( wow ! did you read that ? that God will take vengeance of them that know not God, i.e. that know not God through Jesus Christ and his blood atonement.... and ? and that READ CAREFULLY.. : OBEY, OBEY, NOT THE GOSPLE ( the Gospel of Jesus Christ is good news, the truth of God's salvation in Jesus Christ, for " GRACE and TRUTH " came by Jesus Christ )....
( obeying not the Gospel means ? rejecting it's truth, rejecting that God's grace saves us, not or works, not keeping the law, not by our own efforts ).
9. who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;
10. when he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.
( see that ? all them that believe, not all them that do good works, or all them that keep the law ).
11. Wherefore also we pray always for you, that our God would count you worthy of this calling, and fulfill all the good pleasure of his goodness, and the work ( the word " WORK " here means, not works, or good deeds, or keeping the law, it means.... ACTION ) of faith with power:
12. that the name of our Lord Jesus Christ may be glorified in you, and ye in him, according to the grace of our God and the Lord Jesus Christ.... ( see that word here ? GRACE ?

2 Thessalonians 2

Authorized (King James) Version>

1. Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
2. that ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us,( he says here, " AS FROM US " being ? not actually from us, but pretending to be from them ) as that the day of Christ is at hand. ( shaken by whom ? the law preachers ? the Gnostic ? the works preachers ? yup, it could be those whom Paul is talking about here ).
3. Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;... ( yup, a world wide religion based upon works, and bowing to a false God, the Anti-Christ ).
4. who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
( anything, any religion, and teaching, any belief that's apart from God's grace and teaches as does our " CULTure " the worldly system, man made religion teaches, that there are " MANY WAYS TO GOD " and that teaches works get us to heaven apart from Christ is a CULT and anti-Christ.... so ? do not be deceived )
5. Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things? ( yes, they seemed to have forgotten the simplicity of Christ, God's grace in our salvation )
6. And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.
7. For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
8. And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:( go back to chapter one in this book and this is the same thing here ).
9. even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,( the anti-Christ.... " there are many ways to GOD and to heaven " world religion system APART from Christ and God's grace )
10. and with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; ( those that are perishing ? those who are not saved... i.e. " BORN AGAIN " .
Watch this closely and read : ( Because they received not the love of the truth, ) see that ? the truth ? the truth of the Gospel )That ? read ( that they might be saved. ) see that ? that they might be saved ... i.e. " BORN AGAIN " ...
They received not the truth, for Grace and Truth came by Jesus Christ, but rather loved their " GOOD WORKS " and deeds..... and rejected the truth of the Gospel... i.e. OBEYED NOT the Gospel...

( now we get to the crux of the whole thing here... )
( for this cause ? since they rejected the truth of the Gospel, they reject Christ himself.... so ? God sends them strong delusions, i.e. the lie of religion, that some one can be saved by their " GOOD WORKS, GOOD DEEDS, by KEEPING THE LAW ).
11. And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: 12 that they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.... ( obeyed NOT the TRUTH.. for Grace and Truth came by Jesus Christ.... ).... go back to chapter 1 ( " they obeyed not the Gosple " )..... but rather ? had pleasure in doing their " GOOD WORKS, GOOD DEEDS,, BY KEEPING THE LAW AND REJECTING AND NOT OBEYING THE GOSPLE...)
13. But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth: ( see there ? there's that word " TRUTH ".... and the doctrine of election )...
14. whereunto he called you by our gospel; to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.( wow, it was God who calls his own.... by the Gospel, God's grace in Jesus Christ... there is no " I never knew you here " ...
15. Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.
16. Now our Lord Jesus Christ himself, and God, even our Father, which hath loved us, and hath given us everlasting consolation and good hope through grace,( it does not say " Good hope in the law, or good deeds, or good works, it says, good hope through grace i.e. Jesus Christ.
17. comfort your hearts, and stablish you in every good word and work. ( good works are only what we do after we get saved unto God's glory,,, good works are NOT, are NOT to earn our salvation..... our salvation was bought and earned on the cross in what Jesus Christ has done for us )...
211 posted on 07/17/2013 1:46:07 AM PDT by American Constitutionalist
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To: patlin
2 Thessalonians 2

3. Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;...

That there is talking about the world " CULT " .... or rather the world wide " RELIGION " that the anti-Christ sets up.
That's what the " falling away " means..... falling away from the truth of the true Gospel of Jesus Christ and God's salvation by grace in him into a world wide CULT RELIGION based upon demands of " WORKS " by the anti-Christ.

Our CULTure... yup, that's where we get the word " CULT " from.... the word " CULTURE " .....
The world's so called wisdom, and ways, teachings tell us that there are many ways to GOD.
All CULTS teach us that it's based upon our so called " WORKS " good deeds to get to heaven without Jesus Christ and God's salvation by Grace in him.
Jesus Christ himself said that Broad is the way and wide is the path that leads to destruction, but narrow is the way that leads to eternal life..... Jesus Christ was speaking about him self... there is only one way to GOD and heaven, that's through God's way of Salvation by grace in Jesus Christ.

The great falling away is the rejecting of God's way of salvation by grace in Jesus Christ into a world wide religious CULT set up by the anti-Christ.
Since those who reject God's way of salvation by grace in Jesus Christ ( the truth of the gosple ) God will send them strong delusion to believe the lie of a world wide religious CULT.
Apart from God's grace in Jesus Christ ? it's a CULT, or rather, what the CULTURE tells us.

212 posted on 07/17/2013 2:19:10 AM PDT by American Constitutionalist
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To: American Constitutionalist
Ah, the great falling away that comes because of who?

2Thess 2:7 for the mystery of iniquity ... (G458 anomia - Lawlessness, violation of the Law that stems from apostasy, the falling away from God's Law which is God's Truth that the heavens and earth are witnesses to that it still stands as it stood in the beginning)

1Ti 1:9 Knowing this, that the Law(G3551 nomos - specifically the Law of Moses, davar: the uttered Word, the voice of God; torah: custom, manner; mitzvah: commands, verdict, right ruling) is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane,

Therefore, anomia is the opposite of nomos and just because King James chose to use iniquity rather than the plain hard truth which is lawlessness, the meaning is still the same and it begins with ungodliness, unholiness and profanity which are the foundation of the seed of hasatan from which all other sin is built upon.

Titus 2:14 says that "He came to redeem us from all "lawlessness" to cleanse us in order that we should do His good works", not so that we could continue walking in lawlessness and all that is opposed to Him.

Grace has been from the beginning when the lamb was slain to make covering for Adam and Eve. Noah found grace in the eyes of God and because of his obedience, his family was spared, and so on, and so on. Grace is important as it comes from the Father, redemption comes through the Son, through His shedding of blood that sealed the covenant. There is a relationship between salvation, faith and works and the works are the evidence that His good fruit is producing His fruit on the branches. Grace has been given to the WHOLE WORLD! But as to the rest, well that is up to us to walk out His example to prove that He is in us and we in Him as He is the head, not the King James only false prophets. You will know them by their fruits". Does a good tree bring forth bad fruit? Does a bad tree bring forth good fruit?

Lk 8:11 tells us that the good "seed" is the Word of God. Paul tells us in Roman's that the "seed" of Abraham is Messiah,and not seeds of many, but of one. Messiah is the "ONE" Living Word of God that put on flesh that is the same from beginning to end, so to say that that Word changed any part of Himself is to blasphemy God and the Son and call the Son imperfect and not fit to be the Son of God.<.p>

So ask yourself, since God says neither He or His Word ever changes, if God says something is truth, can it ever be false? If God says something is good for us can it ever be bad for us? If God calls something an abomination and is bad for us, can it ever be good for us?

Rom 7:12 Wherefore the Law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good. 14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.

Gal 5:25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.

Ecc 12:13 Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commands: for this is the whole duty of all mankind. 14 For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil.

213 posted on 07/17/2013 7:50:31 AM PDT by patlin ("Knowledge is a powerful source that is 2nd to none but God" ConstitutionallySpeaking 2011)
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To: patlin
Once again, using the law to justify one's self.
Once again, using the law to justify your self before God.
NO MAN can ever be made justifed before God by the law.
It's the blood of Christ and nothing else.
Once again cherry picking selected bible verses.
I can show you whole chapters even in the book of Romans that you even used here that Paul makes it plan that the law can not justify us.... go read it, it's there.
Go read a few chapters before chapter 7.

214 posted on 07/18/2013 1:22:58 AM PDT by American Constitutionalist
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To: patlin
The King James Bible ? .... well, it seems, no, the truth is ? no one had a problem with it 100 years ago, or 200 years ago, it was our standard bible at the founding of our country.
Anyway, God's word, the bible tells us to test the spirits to see whether they are from God or not.
I John 4

1. Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.
2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:
3. and every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.


Do you believe that Jesus Christ, Yeshua Messiah came in the flesh 2000 years ago ?
Do you believe that Jesus Christ Yeshua Messiah was GOD himself in the flesh, who came in a human body and died on the cross for our sins ?

John 1:

1. In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2. The same was in the beginning with God.
3. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
4. In him was life; and the life was the light of men.
5. And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.


And yes, the bible, God's word says that the " WORD " was with God in the beginning, and the " WORD " was GOD and that " WORD " Jesus Christ Yeshua Messiah became human flesh.
Verse 14 : And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.


Anything, any spirit, any group, any doctrine, any belief, that separates salvation from God's grace and the blood atonement of Jesus Christ saying that you can't be saved by Christ's blood alone, there has to be works..... is a CULT.

215 posted on 07/18/2013 1:57:09 AM PDT by American Constitutionalist
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To: patlin
The great " Falling away " is falling away from the " Faith " not falling away from works.
The main theme, the main doctrine of the Gospel of Jesus Christ Yeshua Messiah for centuries has been that Jesus Christ has come to redeem us, save us from our sins and God's wrath.
The great falling away is falling away from the Christian faith into another doctrine, another religion, another way to God, another so called " Gospel " that really is not the Gospel that Paul and the other apostles preached.
Paul told Timothy that there would be many that would fall away from the faith... not works..

If anyone could save them selves, then they have no need of a Savior.

Just as those who say that " Grace is not a excuse to sin " so shall " The law, works, good deeds is no excuse to try to justify your self before a holy and righteous God " .

Actually ? you blaspheme Christ him self by the belief that his blood and what he did on the cross to save us is not good enough to save, that there needs to be more, as in " WORKS ".
You trample, and down trod as the book of Hebrews says, the very sinless, precious blood of Christ and count it as common as goats and bulls...
You take away the blood of Christ ? you have no salvation.
216 posted on 07/18/2013 2:07:33 AM PDT by American Constitutionalist
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To: patlin
Most cults deny the deity of Jesus Christ.
That God was manifested in the flesh in the person of Jesus Christ Yeshua Messiah.

The great mystery of godliness ? what is the great mystery of Godliness ?
Paul says it right here in I Timothy 3:16.

16. And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

That God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit... that's Jesus Christ... that's Godliness.
Those who are in Christ have been made righteous, justified, holy.

All the worlds religions, and cults require " WORKS " to get into heaven.
The Jehovah Witness deny that Jesus Christ was God in the flesh, and require " WORKS " .
The Masons require " WORKS " .
The Mormons require " WORKS ".
The Buddhists require " WORKS ".


Just because someone says that they are " WALKING IN THE SPIRIT " does not mean they are walking in the spirit of GOD or are from GOD.
What does Paul mean by walking in the " SPIRIT " ?

Not walking in the confidence of the flesh...

Yeah, we are the circumcision we worship GOD in the spirit and rejoice in Christ Jesus and have no confidence in the flesh... i.e. ( walking in the flesh is believing that your salvation is by works or keeping the law. )
That's what walking in the flesh means.... human efforts, works, keeping the law.
Those who are already in Christ are or have been made Godly, whole, righteous, justified.

217 posted on 07/18/2013 3:59:02 AM PDT by American Constitutionalist
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To: American Constitutionalist
Have you never read and understood John 14-17 and the importance of the Spirit of Truth whom Yeshua Messiah sends to us, to teach us, to guide us in order that we may walk our His truth?

Have you never read and understood Yeshua Messiah's words,

Joh 14:10 “Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father is in Me? The words that I speak to you I do not speak from Myself. But the Father who stays in Me does His works. 11 Believe Me that I am in the Father and the Father in Me, otherwise believe Me because of the works themselves. 12 Truly, truly, I say to you, he who believes in Me, the works that I do he shall do also." (See 1Pet 2:21-22)

Joh 14:15 “If you love Me, you shall guard My commands. (See Ex. 20:6, vv. 21&23, 1 John 5:2-3, 2 John v. 6) 16 And I shall ask the Father, and He shall give you another Helper, to stay with you forever – 17 the Spirit of the Truth, whom the world is unable to receive, because it does not see Him or know Him. But you know Him, for He stays with you and shall be in you."

Joh 14:20 “In that day you shall know that I am in My Father, and you in Me, and I in you."

So much for the big lie being promulgated that "He did it all so we do not have to because we are temporarily in this corruptible flesh". The Word of God put on corruptible flesh to prove to us that we can overcome, but not of ourselves, but of the Spirit of Truth that is sent to those who truly believe in Him. Where there is no trust in His Spirit of Truth, there the branches do not bear fruit because they prove that the seed of the Word of God is not truly in them for them to hear the words,

"Well done good and trustworthy servant"

. So, since we are servants, then who is our Master? Is it not written that we are slaves to whom we serve? So if one chooses to obey Messiah and serve the Father as He served the Father and commanded us to do likewise, how can there be any condemnation in that?

Joh 3:36 “He who believes (G4100) in the Son possesses everlasting life, but he who does not obey (G544) the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him.”

KJV: Joh 3:36 He that believeth G4100 on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth G544 not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

G4100 pisteuō = From G4102; to have faith (in, upon, or with respect to, a person or thing), that is, credit; by implication to entrust (especially one’s spiritual well being to Christ): - believe (-r), commit (to trust), put in trust with.

G544 apeitheō = From G545; to disbelieve (willfully and perversely): - not believe, disobedient, obey not, unbelieving. So according to Hoggard's own bible translation, Hoggard is an unbelieving false prophet because he does not obey the Word of God. Hoggard's own "pure word of God according to Hoggard" convicts Hoggard but yet Hoggard refuses to see because of the darkness that he walks in out of his rejection of God's Spirit of Truth.

218 posted on 07/18/2013 7:57:42 AM PDT by patlin ("Knowledge is a powerful source that is 2nd to none but God" ConstitutionallySpeaking 2011)
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To: patlin

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/3045514/posts


219 posted on 07/21/2013 3:56:24 AM PDT by American Constitutionalist
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To: patlin
Jesus Christ Yeshua Messiah says to use those who have a ear let him hear, and those who have eyes let him see.

Can't walk in the spirit unless you deny self, deny self efforts, walking in the flesh..... i.e. works, trying to justify your self before God by keeping the law... i.e. works.
Did Jesus Christ God in the flesh whom is the one who gave the law break the law when the religious leaders saw him and his disciples eating corn in the field on the Sabbath ?
Yes ? or No ?

According to your standard, Yeshua Messiah broke the 10 Commandments.


Many things and miracles Jesus Yeshuah had done on the Sabbath, did he break the Sabbath ?

if he did ? he would not have qualified to have been the Messiah, or Savior.


What I believe ? how could be have broke the Sabbath commandment ? when ? he was the one who gave the law.
Also ? He even said himself that the Sabbath was " MADE " for the man... and not the other way around.

God wants us at rest.

Jesus Christ Yeshua Messiah told the religious leaders that man was not made for the Sabbath even though God gave that commandment as one of the 10 commandments, but rather, the Sabbath was made for the man to rest.

I ask you ?

Can you ? obtain that goal ?

The high standard that God has set to obtain the righteousness that God requires to be accepted into the Kingdom of God and into Heaven ?


This is what Jesus Christ Yeshua Messiah said about that and I'll even use the NIV.
Youngs Translation

and the King James.


New International Version

For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven.

Young's Literal Translation

`For I say to you, that if your righteousness may not abound above that of the scribes and Pharisees, ye may not enter to the reign of the heavens.

King James

For I say unto you, that except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the Scribes and Pharisees , ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.



What is the spirit saying to you in this verse ?

What is these words of Jesus Christ Jeshua Messiah saying to you ?
What does it mean ?


I think it's clear as day what this verse and these words of the LORD is saying.

It's saying it's impossible to achieve that high standard that God requires of us on our own in our flesh by keeping the law.

There has to be another way.

And that is ? the blood atonement.

Nothing but the blood of Jesus Christ Yeshua Messiah.

There is no other way that a man or women can enter into the Kingdom of God and Heaven..

Must be born again, Must be born again, Must be born again, Must be born again.... how many times does it have to be said to make it clear to people ?

Unless ?

They are blinded by the devil to not receive " THE TRUTH ".



Patlin ? does your own righteousness exceed even that of the Scribes and Pharisees of Jesus's day ?

Yes or no ?



Let him who has ears let him hear, and let him who has eyes let him see.


He who has ears let him hear what the spirit is saying to the Church.


The devil has people blinded to think that they can achieve immortality by keeping the law, to enter into heaven by their words...


The devil has people blinded to think that God would accept them into heaven by their works or obtain salvation by their works, and justification by their works, by keeping the law.


Nothing but the blood of Yeshua Messiah.

There would be no need of a Messiah or Savior if people could have obtain salvation and justification by their works.

They could NOT be cleaned of their sins if it was by the law, by their works.


What's the point then ? for God to have sent Yeshua Messiah if ? all men and women had to do was keep the law ?

In Romans chapter 8 even Paul says that the LAW was weak because of human flesh.

Those who try to earn their salvation by their works or keeping the law deny Christ.

Those who think that their works will get them into heaven deny the Christ, the Messiah,

and ?

Will be fooled by the anti-Christ when he comes.


The basic principle of the anti-Christ's false religion will be upon " WORKS " .



The difference between the true Messiah Yeshua who was born over 2000 years ago by a " VIRGIN " woman ? ( the NIV bible does not say he was born of a " VIRGIN BIRTH " so I just wanted to let you know that ) and between the false messiah whom the devil sets up to rule this world ?

The main difference ? God's Grace....


The anti-Christ means just that.

Against everything that Christ Yeshua stood for and was sent for.


It's strange ? isn't it ?

All the other false religions of this world: i.e. Islam, Buddhism, are based upon ? WORKS...

Once the false prophets of Christianity get Christians who are NOT saved into a " WORKS " based religion,

then ? and only then ?

Will all the other religions and the fake Christianity will be meshed into a ONE WORLD RELIGION that will be ruled and headed by the anti-christ.


The devil, the anti-Christ would have you believe that you don't need Christ, Yeshua Messiah to get into heaven, to be accepted of God, they want you to believe it's based upon how good you live your lives, how good you keep the law, how many " WORKS " you have done.... but ? the LORD will say to those who say " LORD LORD " he will say " I NEVER KNEW YOU " .

220 posted on 07/21/2013 4:48:32 AM PDT by American Constitutionalist
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To: patlin
What does the word " CHRIST " mean ?

It comes from the Greek word " christos " the meaning, anointed, chosen.
It has the same meaning as the Hebrew word " mashiach " i.e. Messiah.

But wait a minute ? isn't the false messiah, the anti-Christ supposed to set him self up as a messiah ?

The problem is ? the one that is to come, the anti-Christ is not " ANOINTED and CHOSEN " of God.

Jesus Christ Yeshua Messiah was the ONLY ONE who was " ANOINTED " to redeem and save his people.

How did he do that ? not by the law, he did it by being crucified on the cross.... i.e. the blood atonement that God required.

What is the false messiah ? the anti-Christ ? ( i.e. the one who is NOT anointed by GOD, the one who is NOT chosen by GOD ) .......

The anti-Christ is just that.... anti, against, counter, a counterfeit, the one who sets him self up and deny's everything that Yeshua Messiah has done.

The anti-Christ will be against the blood atonement and God's free grace...

That's how you can recognize the spirit of the anti-Christ... those who are dogmatic against the blood atonement and God's free grace.... and those who deny that Christ has come in the flesh, and that Yeshua Messiah was GOD actually in the flesh.

The false prophets will proclaim that there has to be " WORKS " to enter heaven, there has to be " WORKS " to be accepted by GOD.

The devil and the anti-Christ hates the blood atonement and God's free grace...
221 posted on 07/21/2013 6:58:39 AM PDT by American Constitutionalist
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To: patlin
I find it so amazing how the law preachers, the law teachers are so preoccupied by other people's sins and not their own... does not the bible tell us that to " WORK OUT YOUR OWN SALVATION " ?
He that is without sin cast the first stone.... isn't that what Jesus told us ?


So ? are you so perfect in keeping the commandments that you deserve more than others for God to let you into heaven ? yes or no ?


Ohh yeah ?

The part in : John 14:10 “Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father is in Me?

( He was asking them a question, do you not believe that I and the father are one ? he was asking them ? do you believe that he was in the father and the father was in him ?
He was saying that both him and the father are one, it has nothing to do with keeping the law ).

The words that I speak to you I do not speak from Myself.
But the Father who stays in Me does His works.

( What works ? the law preachers would have us think and believe that this is keeping the law, the 10 commandments.)
( But wait a minute ? how about when Jesus and his disciples were eating corn in the field on the holy Sabbath ? how can you explain that patlin ? how ?)

11. Believe Me that I am in the Father and the Father in Me >
( Once again, Yeshua was saying that he and the father are one.
( Jesus Christ is GOD in the flesh, this has nothing to do with keeping the law )
Otherwise believe Me because of the works themselves.

( ahh, the law preachers and law teachers would have us to believe this is about keeping the 10 commandments.)
( This has nothing to do with keeping the 10 commandments.)
( It has to do with the signs and miracles that the Christ will do to prove that he is the " ANOINTED ONE ).
( this word works here means that the works, signs, miracles, that he is the one ).
( John the baptist asked ? is he the one ? is this the Christ, the messiah that we have been waiting for ?
That news got back to Jesus and he told them to tell John that ? the blind see, the deaf hear, the lame walk.)

12. Truly, truly, I say to you, he who believes in Me, the works that I do he shall do also.

( works, i.e. miracles, ).
I believe you have a failed understanding in how to interpret the scriptures.

Are you a Jehovah Witness ? Mormon ? 7th Day Adventist ?

222 posted on 07/21/2013 7:23:59 AM PDT by American Constitutionalist
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To: ChocChipCookie

Thank you. I read the article and felt confused as I had no idea what that point of it was.


223 posted on 07/21/2013 7:30:24 AM PDT by CityCenter (Pleading the 5th is just so 1972.)
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To: patlin
So then ?

You want everyone to see how " HOLY " and " RIGHTEIOUS " you are by being so dogmatic in keeping the holy Sabbath...

According the ancient Hebrew laws.. the commandment of the Sabbath.... your not suppose to do any work... opps, there's that word again.. work.
Your not even suppose to walk a certain distance on the Sabbath day.

Let's see how well you REALLY keep God's holy commandment and we will only focus on the commandment of the Sabbath.

Let's see now ?

Do you get up in the morning and get out bed ? that's work.... broke the Sabbath right there.
Do you cook food on the Sabbath ? broke the Sabbath right there.
Do you get in the car and drive to the store on the Sabbath ? broke the Sabbath right there.
If you own a farm and the horse or animals got lose and had to find them and put them back in it's barn ? you broke the Sabbath.
Do you clean the house on the Sabbath ? broke the Sabbath right there.


We can even get into the other commandments...

Thou shall not covet thy neighbors property or anything your neighbor owns.

Let's see now how perfect you really are.

Do you wish you had a nice and newer car like so and so has ? right there you broke that commandment.
Do you wish you had a nicer and newer house like so and so has ? right there you broke the commandment.
Have you ever said NO to your father and mother ? or had a disagreement with them ? right there you broke that commandment.
Wow... it's getting really really hard to live by the law, isn't it ?
Have you ate pork ? unclean meats ? right there you broke the dietary laws of the Hebrews.
Jesus Christ healed people on the Sabbath, did he broke the 10 Commandments ? for the bible tells us that if we broke just one law or commandment, we are guilty of braking ALL the law.
SO now ? are you that perfect for God to allow you into heaven and into the Kingdom of God ?

Certainly NOT !

You are just as guilty of braking God's holy laws as are the rest of us... no one is exempt.. no one can escape.
You live by the law ? you shall keep ALL the law... and you can't brake any part of it.

Your not saved, or have salvation if you are trying to earn your salvation by works.
Salvation alone comes by Jesus Christ and his blood atonement......
224 posted on 07/21/2013 7:55:11 AM PDT by American Constitutionalist
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To: patlin
All those bible verses you are trying to show me ? guess what ? it's taking about you, yes, you personally.


God's holy law pertains to you too... your not exempt to keep it.

Actually ?

In God's word ? he's asking you, yes, you how well you keep his law ? his commandments since you are so dogmatic in keeping them.

Guess what ?

The Nation of Israel could not keep them perfectly either, so what makes you so special from Israel and the 6 Billion of other people on this planet ?

God's law was to show us how GUILTY all of us are before him.. and the history of the nation of Israel proves and shows that we could not keep it perfectly as God wanted us to keep it... so ? there had to be another way.

Yes, that's right.... everything you have shown me ?

All the bible verses you trow at me ?

Guess what ?

They are pointing back to you, so what makes you so special that you are exempt from them ?

I never claimed I was exempt from God's laws or God's commandments,,, I am GUILTY before GOD.... that's what being poor in the spirit means.. once pride is gone ? you can clearly see.

I am not exempt from God's laws, but, I am delivered from it's penalty of it in Jesus Christ's redemption.

Those who are in Christ are delievered from the " CURSE " of the law.

The law preachers and teachers love to say " Grace does not give you excuse to sin " but, they them selves also have SIN in their lives also, but don't want other people to see it because they want people to see how HOLY they are, or how " RIGHTEOUS " they are, rather, it's self righteiousness in which GOD hates, it's called : PRIDE.

Yup, Pride and hypocrisy.... a mask.... to pretend how " HOLY " you are, to pretend how " RIGHTEOUS " you are, while secret sins abide.
That's how the law preachers, and law preachers live, they are so dogmatic about the law and " OTHER PEOPLE'S " sins, but yet ? they got sins in their own lives that they don't want other people to see because they want to appear " HOLY " and RIGHTEOUS " before other people because of their pride....

That there, is the truth.
225 posted on 07/21/2013 8:17:44 AM PDT by American Constitutionalist
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To: American Constitutionalist
One must first define what righteousness means before one can presume to know whether or not theirs exceeds the scribes and the Pharisees. So let's let the Word of God define it for us shall we?

Dt 4:2 You shall not add to the word which I command you, nor take from it, that you may keep the commandments of the Lord your God which I command you.

Dt 6:25 Then it will be righteousness for us, if we are careful to observe all these commandments before the Lord our God, as He has commanded us.’

Do I guard to do all that I am required to do according to Moses (Mt 23:1-3)? Yes. Do I do it perfect? No but the word for perfect is not what the English portrays it to be, it is merely and uprightness in ones heart, they do their best with integrity not compromising by adding to or taking away. And then as Paul and John tell us, when we stumble and we will because we are still in the corruptible flesh, we have Messiah who advocates the state of our heart before the Father and His perfection then covers our sins. As far as the rest, well it all depends on ones understanding of Jewish rabbinic law and the Law of God. Rabbinic law forbade the winnowing of grain (it wasn't corn) in the hand as they considered this work. God's Law says nothing about taking grain or fruit from the field on the Sabbath as one walks by, the key being, hunger, take and eat but do not take to store up for another day.

So it would seem that you have a lack of understanding regarding what is the Law of God and the rabbinic laws of men.

226 posted on 07/21/2013 8:02:38 PM PDT by patlin ("Knowledge is a powerful source that is 2nd to none but God" ConstitutionallySpeaking 2011)
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To: patlin; jimrob

Jim, are you going to demand that this poster take down this post because it is exposing a minister? I did the same thing with rev. Jesse Lee Peterson for real corruption and perjury and you did so with me. Just wondering if you are going to be consistent.


227 posted on 07/21/2013 8:06:49 PM PDT by fabian (" And a new day will dawn for those who stand long, and the forests will echo in laughter")
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To: patlin
Those who think like this miss the point.

Grace salvation does not imply " Lawlessness " .

Of course we should have laws in our society, however ? salvation, eternal life is not bought, or earned by keeping the law or good deeds.
The holy spirit is the one who helps us to live the life God intends for us.
Whether the self righteous , those do gooders realize it or not they have sins in their lives that they do not see or admit.
God's standard of perfection goes beyond what any man or woman could have achieve by keeping the law.
What get's lost with the law salvaitoneers, or the works salvaiton people is that ? at what point ( in spite of their inherent condition called " THE FALL " ) does one achieve perfection here on earth for God to accept them ?.
Another thing that get's lost with the works salvationeers is that in spite of the fact that they love to ignore this fact, that ? year after year, decade after decade, century after century ?

In spite of trying to keep the law ?

The high priest had to required by God to bring in a spotless lamb sacrifice to atone for the nations sins.
The works salvationeers, the law salvationeers love to skirt around that fact time after time and can't give a explanation for that, can they ?
If they love to keep the law ? why then ? are there no more animal sacrifices as required by GOD ?
It's because God did away with the old system, God did away with the old covenant.
228 posted on 08/06/2013 2:41:30 PM PDT by American Constitutionalist
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To: American Constitutionalist
The original Greek and Hebrew words translated into English as perfect as it pertains to ones walk literally means to walk in uprightness, walk in integrity in ones heart.

Gen 6:9 This is the genealogy of Noah. Noah was a just man, perfect in his generations. Noah walked with God.

Did Noah do everything perfectly? No, but he did have it in his heart to do so and so when his flesh failed, what was in his heart redeemed him. And knowing that we are of the flesh, then why would Jesus tell us,

Matt 5:48 Therefore you shall be perfect, just as your Father in heaven is perfect.

Did He literally mean that we must always be perfect in the flesh or is it more like what John teaches us?

1Jn 2:1 My little children, these things I write to you, so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous.

But now returning to the law, salvation is not based upon the laws of the society we live in today, but the laws of the society that we can not see, the society that our hope is in, the society in which seek to enter. Those are the laws that we are to concern ourselves with first and foremost. Have you not read how Daniel refused to eat of the King's delicacies that were an abomination to God? Have you not read where Daniel and the 3 others refused to bow down and sing to the image of the King? Have you not read where Peter proclaimed that no unclean animal had ever touched his lips and then later it was revealed to Peter that the beasts on the sheet represented mankind and that we are to call any man unclean? FYI, there is no gate in the eternal kingdom labeled "gentile". They are all given the names of the tribes of Israel. Why is that?

229 posted on 08/06/2013 7:18:34 PM PDT by patlin ("Knowledge is a powerful source that is 2nd to none but God" ConstitutionallySpeaking 2011)
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