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More Mormons moving from 'Easter disconnect' to Christian worship services [Vanity]
Colofornian | March 13, 2013 | Colofornian

Posted on 03/13/2013 9:45:40 AM PDT by Colofornian

Free Republic can no longer post Salt Lake Tribune based threads...but we can still link to them. Just last week, the Trib ran this very significant article:

Mormons increasingly drawn to Holy Week rituals

In other words, Mormons are attending Christian church services during Holy Week! (And they love the services there!)

To understand this, you have to understand the backdrop -- the vacuum of Jesus and the cross within Mormonism:

1. BYU study: Disconnect between Mormons and Easter

In this article, published by the Mormon church owned Deseret News, it said that Easter has ”only 'lightly more planning than the Fourth of July,'

2. Preparing for Easter through Holy Week

From this article: While the LDS community does not formally observe Holy Week, the period from Palm Sunday to Easter morning… Suddenly I realized that my observance of Easter was rather pale by comparison

For a fresh thread, see: Easter essays ['In the LDS church it never really hit me what Jesus did for me']

(Please also review:)

* What is the Significance of Easter for Mormons?

* Mormons have sub-par Easter services [testimony from a Mormon]

* Why don't Mormon's celebrate Easter? [Asked by a Mormon]

* Lent celebrated locally as Easter nears this month [Lent through eyes of Lds journalist]

Few Mormons wear crosses, depicting their aversion to it. For more on this, see:

* No-Cross Protocol ["New" Mormon tradition]

* Sunstone speaker attempts to explain LDS 'aversion' to cross [published by Mormon church owned Mormon Times]


TOPICS: Ministry/Outreach; Other Christian; Other non-Christian; Religion & Culture; Worship
KEYWORDS: cross; easter; inman; lds; mormonism
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Free Republic can no longer post Salt Lake Tribunebased threads...but we can still link to them. Just last week, the Trib ran this very significant article:

Mormons increasingly drawn to Holy Week rituals

For a fresh thread, see: Easter essays ['In the LDS church it never really hit me what Jesus did for me']

1 posted on 03/13/2013 9:45:40 AM PDT by Colofornian
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To: Colofornian
There are many stories at this link.



2 posted on 03/13/2013 9:57:48 AM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: Colofornian

They apparently are drawn to the truth of Christianity, but afraid to walk out of the darkness of Mormonism.


3 posted on 03/13/2013 10:04:43 AM PDT by Linda Frances (Woe to those who call evil good and good evil, who put darkness for light and light for darkness)
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To: Linda Frances

True words


4 posted on 03/13/2013 10:27:06 AM PDT by svcw (Why is one cell on another planet considered life, and in the womb it is not.)
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To: Colofornian

It is God calling them to the truth of Jesus and Christian faith.


5 posted on 03/13/2013 10:36:24 AM PDT by Biggirl ("Jesus talked to us as individuals"-Jim Vicevich/Thanks JimV!)
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To: Linda Frances

I’m a Momon, and I pay very little attention to the Easter Bunny!

My devotion is to the living Jesus Christ, my Lord and my Savior, the son of the living God the Father. And my goal is to merit and maintain the Holy Ghost in my heart in worship my Father in Heaven. If that’s not enough for you .... so be it, it is enough for my Savior Jesus Christ.

Why would I want to attend another church service and worship a medieval definition of Christ who is ....

....three in one and one in three but never really one but never really three, whos circumference is everywhere, center is nowhere, so large he fills the universe, so small he dwells in hearts and all the while without body, parts or passions..... (need I go on?)

Sorry guys, but the truth and work of our Lord Jesus Christ will continue either with or without your support.


6 posted on 03/13/2013 10:40:08 AM PDT by teppe (... for my God ... for my Family ... for my Country ....)
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To: Biggirl

Sorry Big Girl,

But God has allready called us to Jesus Christ on a spring day in 1820.

And the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints (Mormons) will continue as the stone cut out without hands until it fills the earth, just as in Nebachadnezzars dream.


7 posted on 03/13/2013 10:43:13 AM PDT by teppe (... for my God ... for my Family ... for my Country ....)
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To: Linda Frances; Colofornian; Elsie; svcw; Zakeet; Tennessee Nana; aMorePerfectUnion; Godzilla; ...
They apparently are drawn to the truth of Christianity, but afraid to walk out of the darkness of Mormonism.

As a former mormon, I have to disagree with that. This is all a big push by mormon leaders to try and convince the religious world that mormonism is Christian..."See, we worship the same Christ in the same way you do. Stop revealing that mormonism's god and jesus are entirely different entities from the God and Jesus of Christianity".

After generations of brainwashing from mormon pulpits and the dictate that they must not attend other churches, members are not conversant enough with Christian worship to be "drawn" to it. They will though, blindly follow the leaders.

The cognitive dissonance they will face in STILL seeing themselves as superior by belonging to "the only true church on the face of the earth" while adopting the practices of Christians will be interesting to follow.

What does it mean that The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is the only true Church? at LDS.org

"A revelation given to the Prophet Joseph Smith in 1831, soon after the organization of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, spoke of those who had been given “power to lay the foundation of this church.” The Lord then referred to the Church as “the only true and living church upon the face of the whole earth, with which I, the Lord, am well pleased”

8 posted on 03/13/2013 10:46:16 AM PDT by greyfoxx39 (Thanks Mitt.)
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To: Linda Frances

It’s kind of Ironic isn’t it ...

Your rejoicing about a LDS members in Utah who attend non-LDS church service (I’ve attended probably 50 in my lifetime)

....while every day another 5,000 to 10,0000 join the LDS church worldwide.

Its as Joseph Smith Prophesied, “....the work of the Lord Jesus Christ has begun and no unhallowed hand will stop it”

PS .... When Jesus prayed to God his Father .... he wasn’t talking to himself, he meant it!


9 posted on 03/13/2013 10:49:29 AM PDT by teppe (... for my God ... for my Family ... for my Country ....)
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Comment #10 Removed by Moderator

To: teppe

Jesus said it: “I and My Father are one.” (John 10:30) and “No one comes to the Father but through Me.” (John 14:6)

Jesus taught that the Triune God is the true God. True Christians accept His teaching. Knowing that our pitiful, sin-clouded minds cannot fathom the mystery, God gives us the gift of faith to believe it.


11 posted on 03/13/2013 10:54:07 AM PDT by txrefugee
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To: Colofornian; svcw

One comment at the Salt Lake Tribune article brings up the subject of the Cross. I am eagerly awaiting the day that Moroni is taken down from the mormon temple steeples and the Cross of Jesus replaces him.


12 posted on 03/13/2013 10:54:42 AM PDT by greyfoxx39 (Thanks Mitt.)
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To: greyfoxx39

Greyfoxx39

If you were previously LDS, you sure didn’t learn much about our beliefs.

We celebrate the ressurection of Jesus Christ and not his death.

Consequently, we do no participate in the Idol worship that is the Cross.


13 posted on 03/13/2013 10:57:35 AM PDT by teppe (... for my God ... for my Family ... for my Country ....)
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To: txrefugee

Silly boy, Read John 17:22, when Christ was praying that his Apostles would be “one” even as he and the Father were “one”.

Did Christ actually want all of his disciples to jump into the same person?

Guys, read the whole bible no just parts of it .....

This is just too easy!


14 posted on 03/13/2013 11:01:57 AM PDT by teppe (... for my God ... for my Family ... for my Country ....)
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To: teppe

5,000 a day = 1,8250,000 per year = delusional thinking


15 posted on 03/13/2013 11:03:07 AM PDT by svcw (Why is one cell on another planet considered life, and in the womb it is not.)
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To: txrefugee

Jesus never taught that the “triune” is the true God.

That is a fabrication of the Nicene Creed in 325.


16 posted on 03/13/2013 11:03:42 AM PDT by teppe (... for my God ... for my Family ... for my Country ....)
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To: greyfoxx39; Linda Frances; All
As a former mormon, I have to disagree with that. This is all a big push by mormon leaders to try and convince the religious world that mormonism is Christian..."See, we worship the same Christ in the same way you do. Stop revealing that mormonism's god and jesus are entirely different entities from the God and Jesus of Christianity".

(I noticed that in 2013 the Lds church had its biggest publication push EVER of Easter in the March Ensign & Liahona mags...not just an article or two like they did even in their most intentional years...it seems in the past the Lds church would mostly shut out the cross/resurrection/Easter from their March/April issues of those pubs...except they'd get into these common "two-year cycles" where they'd run some articles...like 1974-75; 1983-84; 1992-93; 2008-09; and now 2012-13)

17 posted on 03/13/2013 11:03:48 AM PDT by Colofornian
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To: teppe; greyfoxx39
Consequently, we do no participate in the Idol worship that is the Cross.

Too bad teppe you don't believe the bible -

Gal 6:14 But God forbid that I should glory, save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world is crucified unto me, and I unto the world.

18 posted on 03/13/2013 11:04:48 AM PDT by Godzilla (3/7/77)
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To: teppe; txrefugee
Did Christ actually want all of his disciples to jump into the same person?

(But we don't teach -- and the Christian church NEVER has -- taught that the Father and the Son are the "same person" You see, this is the problem when a heretic teaches other heretical leaders who have taught you...you wind up misrepresenting our belief...and no wonder you fail to understand Christianity)

19 posted on 03/13/2013 11:05:36 AM PDT by Colofornian
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To: svcw

Truthfully I was just guessing, but we went from 8 in 1830 to nearly 11,000,000 in 180 years.

So in another 180 years we should be somewhere around half a billion!


20 posted on 03/13/2013 11:05:44 AM PDT by teppe (... for my God ... for my Family ... for my Country ....)
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To: teppe

Not really.


21 posted on 03/13/2013 11:06:50 AM PDT by Biggirl ("Jesus talked to us as individuals"-Jim Vicevich/Thanks JimV!)
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To: teppe

LDS Church Growth, Member Activity, and Convert Retention: Review and Analysis
Overall Growth Trends

Having defined basic terms and having identified core considerations in the analysis of church growth data, I will now critically review pertinent data relevant to LDS growth, convert retention, and member activity from a variety of sources.
Although I will make every effort to be objective in the analysis of data, space and time do not allow an exhaustive discussion of each study.
An entire article of this length could be written on each of the national censuses and major sociologic studies without fully exhausting their nuances.
I have focused on pointing out key considerations which are essential to accurate interpretation of the data.
The close convergence of findings from diverse sources corroborates the validity of the range of results and serves to negate claims that minor study nuances not considered here would significantly alter the overall conclusions.

Overall Growth Trends

The rapid growth of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints has been a frequent and recurring theme in the secular media.
The claim that the Church of Jesus Christ is the “world’s fastest growing church” has been repeated in the Los Angeles Times,[1] the Salt Lake Tribune,[2] The Guardian,[3] and other media outlets,[4] while sources claiming that the LDS Church is the “fastest growing in the United States” are too numerous to chronicle.
Sociologist Rodney Stark’s 1984 projection has been widely cited: “A 50 percent per decade growth rate, which is actually lower than the rate each decade since World War II, will result in over 265 million members of the Church by 2080”[5]. In Mormons in America, Claudia and Richard Bushman claimed, “Mormonism, one of the world’s fastest-growing Christian religions, doubles its membership every 15 years”[6].

Latter-day Saint media have also lauded rapid church growth. The LDS Church News has described international LDS growth with a litany of superlatives, including “astronomic,” “dynamic,” “miraculous,” and “spectacular.” The claim that the LDS Church is the “fastest growing church in the United States” has been repeated in the Ensign and LDS Church News.

Yet annual LDS growth rates have progressively declined from over 5 percent in the late 1980s to less than 3 percent from 2000 to 2005.[7] During this same period, other international missionary-oriented faiths have reported accelerating growth, including the Seventh-Day Adventists, Southern Baptists, Assemblies of God, and Evangelical (5.6 percent annual growth)[8] and Pentecostal churches (7.3 percent annual growth). Since 1990, LDS missionaries have been challenged to double the number of baptisms, but instead the number of baptisms per missionary has halved. The average LDS missionary in 1989 brought 8 people into the church, while the mean number of annual baptisms per missionary averaged between 6.0 and 6.5 between 1985 and 1999. From 2000 to 2004, the average missionary experienced 4.5 convert baptisms. When one accounts for actual activity and retention rates, approximately 1.2 of the 4.5 converts baptized annually by the typical missionary will remain active. The sharp decline in LDS growth rates occurred even at times with record numbers of missionaries serving. This declining growth comes in spite of the LDS Church entering fifty-nine new nations for proselyting between 1990 and 2000.

For 2004, 241,239 LDS convert baptisms were reported, the lowest number of converts since 1987. The number of convert baptisms increased to 272,845 in 2006, but both missionary productivity and the total number of baptisms remained well below the levels of the early 1990s. Even more concerning is that only a fraction of baptized members remain active. Sociologist Armand Mauss stated that “75 percent of foreign [LDS] converts are not attending church within a year of conversion. In the United States, 50 percent of the converts fail to attend after a year”.[9] As 80 percent of LDS convert baptisms occur outside of the United States, this means that only 30% of LDS converts worldwide become active or participating members of the Church. Natural LDS growth has also fallen as the LDS birth rate has progressively declined. LDS church membership has continued to increase, but the rate of growth has slowed considerably.


22 posted on 03/13/2013 11:07:40 AM PDT by svcw (Why is one cell on another planet considered life, and in the womb it is not.)
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To: Colofornian

Oops I have awakened the Non-Denomination Inquisitor General.

Teretullian condemned a similar belief to the Nicene Creed 100 years earlier which was known as Praxeous.

To demonstrate that his Christology in the 200s was spot on with the LDS beleif I will next post Exhibit “A” which includes Tertullians “Against Praxeus”


23 posted on 03/13/2013 11:09:06 AM PDT by teppe (... for my God ... for my Family ... for my Country ....)
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To: Biggirl

Exhibit “A”

Tertullian – Against Praxeas

Chapter II. “…were it only that it may not seem that each perversion of the truth is condemned without examination and simply prejudiced; especially in the case of this (Praxeus) heresy, which supposes itself to posses the pure truth, in thinking that one cannot believe in One Only God in any other way than by saying that the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost are the very selfsame Person.”

Chapter IV: “…we have been already able to show that the Father and the Son are two separate Persons, not only by the mention of their separate names as Father and the Son, but also by the fact that He who delivered up the kingdom, and He to whom it is delivered up-and in like manner, He who subjected (all things), and He to whom they were subjected-must necessarily be two different beings.

Chapter VII: “Whatever, therefore, was the substance of the Word that I designate a Person, I claim for it the name of the Son; and while I recognize the Son, I assert His distinction as second to the Father.”

“… I confess that I call God and His Word- the Father and His Son-Two.”

Chapter IX: “Now, observe, my assertion is that the Father is one, and the Son is one, and the Spirit one, and that They are distinct from Each Other.”

Chapter X: “In like manner, in order to be a father, I have a son, for I never can be a son to myself; and in order to be a son, I have a father, it being impossible for me ever to be my own father.”

Chapter XI: “If you want me to believe Him to be both the Father and the Son, show me some other passage where it is declared ‘The Lord said unto Himself, I am my own Son, to-day have I begotten myself’ or again ‘Before the morning did I beget myself’.”

Chapter XII: “..according to John ‘The Word was God,’ then you have two Beings – One that commands that the thing be made, and the Other that executes the order and creates.”


24 posted on 03/13/2013 11:10:36 AM PDT by teppe (... for my God ... for my Family ... for my Country ....)
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To: teppe
Jesus never taught that the “triune” is the true God.

Do you mind explaining then, Tep, why Jesus said to baptize in the singular NAME of the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost???

19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the NAME of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: (Matthew 28:19)

Why didn't Jesus use the plural "Names" if plurality was His main focus?

25 posted on 03/13/2013 11:11:15 AM PDT by Colofornian
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To: teppe

So uh if God isn’t a liar (and we know that He isn’t), and the Bible claims that Jesus is God; then what more needed to be accomplished after the Cross.

Don’t you remember Jesus when He died prayed to The Father “It is finished”?

To put it another way..let’s go to Ephesians 2:8-9. “For by Grace you have been saved through faith, and this NOT of yoursleves it is a GIFT of God”!

So salvation is by Grace right? (I am just asking your opinion).


26 posted on 03/13/2013 11:11:21 AM PDT by JSDude1
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To: JSDude1

No I God tells the Truth.

Jesus Christ said that he was the Son of God,

Jesus Christ prayed to his Father in Heaven

I take Christ at his word, your the one that twists his words and makes him a liar.


27 posted on 03/13/2013 11:13:11 AM PDT by teppe (... for my God ... for my Family ... for my Country ....)
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To: Colofornian

Colofornian

Find “Truine or Trinity” in the Bible.

Teretullian would consider you a heretic.

Jesus Christ is the Son of God the Father .... just like he said! There’s no mystery here.


28 posted on 03/13/2013 11:15:21 AM PDT by teppe (... for my God ... for my Family ... for my Country ....)
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To: teppe

Read post 22, it is a study on the growth of momronism worldwide


29 posted on 03/13/2013 11:16:44 AM PDT by svcw (Why is one cell on another planet considered life, and in the womb it is not.)
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To: teppe

how do I refresh FR so that I don’t have to go back to the main view to get the latest posts?

I only have a few minutes before I have to get back to work.

Colofornian ... sorry but debating you is so easy!


30 posted on 03/13/2013 11:17:13 AM PDT by teppe (... for my God ... for my Family ... for my Country ....)
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To: teppe

I merely quote scripture so you actually call God a liar.

For instance if I am a liar (and I agree with this: how do you explain).

JOhn 10:30 “I and the Father are one.”


31 posted on 03/13/2013 11:17:26 AM PDT by JSDude1
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To: teppe
....while every day another 5,000 to 10,0000 join the LDS church worldwide.

Let's see an actual source for that comment...oh wait...there isn't one.

Membership statics for mormonism

Major Religious Groups
# Faith Congregations Active Members Adherents Percent Annual Growth
1 Protestant 0 0 168000000 56.00% 0.91%
2 Catholic 0 0 84000000 28.00% 0.91%
3 Jewish 0 0 6000000 2.00% 0.91%
4 other 0 0 12000000 4.00% 0.91%
5 none 0 0 30000000 10.00% 0.91%
6 Jehovah's Witnesses 11426 988469 2153268 0.72% 0.91%
7 Seventh-day Adventists 4422 861954 1723908 0.57% 3.00%
8 Latter-day Saints 12753 2276268 5690672 1.897% 1.69%
Country religious adherents data courtesy of the World Factbook.LDS membership and unit data are derived from the LDS Church Almanac. Seventh-day Adventist statistics are from the Adventist yearbook statistical reports. Jehovah's Witness data are from the Jehovah's Witness yearly statistical report. Other data are from a variety of sources available upon request.

Extrinsic Religious Challenges and Opportunities: National and Cultural

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints in United States
Official LDS Statistics
LDS Members: 5690672
Missions: 106
Temples: 62
Stakes: 1390
Districts: 13
Wards: 10778
Branches: 1975
Total Congregations: 12753
Derived LDS Statistics
Approx. Active Members: 2276268
Percentage of Members Attending Church Weekly: 40%
Average members per congregation: 446
Average active members per congregation: 178
LDS, as percent of population: 1.8968%
Active LDS, as percent of population: 0.7587%
LDS, as percentage of churchgoers: 1.724%
National population per LDS congregation: 23523
Annual LDS Membership Growth
# Year Members Annual Growth
Rate
Wards Branches Units Unit Growth
Rate
Proportionality
Ratio
1 1976 2336715 0% 0 0 0 0% 0
2 1978 2486261 3.1% 0 0 0 0% 0
3 1980 2693765 4.01% 0 0 0 0% 0
4 1982 2882145 3.38% 0 0 0 0% 0
5 1984 3049965 2.83% 0 0 0 0% 0
6 1986 3863598 11.77% 0 0 0 0% 0
7 1988 4100000 2.97% 0 1226 1226 0% 0
8 1990 4175000 0.91% 7456 1286 8742 75.4% 82.857
9 1992 4336000 1.89% 8056 1405 9461 3.94% 2.084
10 1994 4520000 2.08% 8433 1580 10013 2.83% 1.36
11 1996 4712000 2.08% 8719 1698 10417 1.97% 0.947
12 1998 4923000 2.19% 9189 1622 10811 1.85% 0.844
13 2000 5113409 1.9% 9627 1688 11315 2.27% 1.194
14 2002 5310598 1.89% 9999 1732 11731 1.8% 0.952
15 2004 5503192 1.78% 10357 1755 12112 1.59% 0.893
16 2006 5690672 1.67% 10778 1975 12753 2.57% 1.538
LDS membership and unit data 1976-2000 from Mark Davies' WW-LDS.
Proportionality Ratio is the ratio of the increase in units to the increase in membership. A ratio of 1 means that membership and church units are growing at the same rate.
National Population and LDS Growth Rates
Current LDS Membership Growth Rate: 1.67%
Current LDS Unit Growth Rate: 2.57%
Annual Population Growth Rate: 0.91%
Relative LDS Population Growth Rate (LDS membership growth rate minus population growth rate): 0.75%

Intrinsic Challenges and Opportunities of the Church of Jesus Christ
Convert Retention and Member Activity
While LDS activity rates in the United States are among the highest of any country in the world, less than half of members on the rolls are active. The Encyclopedia of Mormonism reports: 'Canada, the South Pacific, and the United States average between 40 percent and 50 percent [attendance at sacrament meeting].' (Source: Encyclopedia of Mormonism, edited by Daniel H. Ludlow, 1992, 4:1527.)

Marginal retention of new converts, and especially potential priesthood holders, remains a serious challenge:

'For the U.S. as a whole, only 59% of baptized males ever receive the Melchizedek Priesthood. In the South Pacific, the figure drops to 35%; in Great Britain, 29%. In Mexico (with almost 850,000 members) the figure is 19%; and in Japan, only 17% of the male members ever make it past the Aaronic Priesthood.' (source: Lowell C. Bennion and Lawrence Young, Dialogue, Spring 1996, p.19.)


32 posted on 03/13/2013 11:18:29 AM PDT by greyfoxx39 (Thanks Mitt.)
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To: svcw

So? the Lord Jesus Christ has blessed his church with unprecidented growth?

And we didn’t force anyone at point of death to join like you Nicene Chrstians did!


33 posted on 03/13/2013 11:19:01 AM PDT by teppe (... for my God ... for my Family ... for my Country ....)
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To: teppe

If you beleive Jesus, then why don’t you beleive it when He said “Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.” (Matthew 24:35).
Was He lying?
If He was not lying then Smith was lying, they both can not be telling the truth.


34 posted on 03/13/2013 11:20:32 AM PDT by svcw (Why is one cell on another planet considered life, and in the womb it is not.)
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To: teppe; greyfoxx39; All
So greyfoxx39 when were you a former LDS Member? When did you join? When did you apostasize? And what sins did you commit that caused you to lose the spirit of the Holy Ghost?

ALL: If you go to the Mormon link below, you'll see that Mormon Teppe's accusational interrogative approach toward fellow Mormons who have left the church is quite typical of false assumptions made:

400: Top 5 Myths and Truths about Why Committed Mormons Leave the Church

35 posted on 03/13/2013 11:20:48 AM PDT by Colofornian
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To: greyfoxx39

Again I ask .... was Tertullian’s Lord Jesus Christ closer to yours or mine?

Undoubtedly mine. What was Tertullians Heresy has become your focus of worship!

As proof, I give you Tertullians own words....

Tertullian – Against Praxeas

Chapter II. “…were it only that it may not seem that each perversion of the truth is condemned without examination and simply prejudiced; especially in the case of this (Praxeus) heresy, which supposes itself to posses the pure truth, in thinking that one cannot believe in One Only God in any other way than by saying that the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost are the very selfsame Person.”

Chapter IV: “…we have been already able to show that the Father and the Son are two separate Persons, not only by the mention of their separate names as Father and the Son, but also by the fact that He who delivered up the kingdom, and He to whom it is delivered up-and in like manner, He who subjected (all things), and He to whom they were subjected-must necessarily be two different beings.

Chapter VII: “Whatever, therefore, was the substance of the Word that I designate a Person, I claim for it the name of the Son; and while I recognize the Son, I assert His distinction as second to the Father.”

“… I confess that I call God and His Word- the Father and His Son-Two.”

Chapter IX: “Now, observe, my assertion is that the Father is one, and the Son is one, and the Spirit one, and that They are distinct from Each Other.”

Chapter X: “In like manner, in order to be a father, I have a son, for I never can be a son to myself; and in order to be a son, I have a father, it being impossible for me ever to be my own father.”

Chapter XI: “If you want me to believe Him to be both the Father and the Son, show me some other passage where it is declared ‘The Lord said unto Himself, I am my own Son, to-day have I begotten myself’ or again ‘Before the morning did I beget myself’.”

Chapter XII: “..according to John ‘The Word was God,’ then you have two Beings – One that commands that the thing be made, and the Other that executes the order and creates.”


36 posted on 03/13/2013 11:21:33 AM PDT by teppe (... for my God ... for my Family ... for my Country ....)
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To: greyfoxx39

Again I ask .... was Tertullian’s Lord Jesus Christ closer to yours or mine?

Undoubtedly mine. What was Tertullians Heresy has become your focus of worship!

As proof, I give you Tertullians own words....

Tertullian – Against Praxeas

Chapter II. “…were it only that it may not seem that each perversion of the truth is condemned without examination and simply prejudiced; especially in the case of this (Praxeus) heresy, which supposes itself to posses the pure truth, in thinking that one cannot believe in One Only God in any other way than by saying that the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost are the very selfsame Person.”

Chapter IV: “…we have been already able to show that the Father and the Son are two separate Persons, not only by the mention of their separate names as Father and the Son, but also by the fact that He who delivered up the kingdom, and He to whom it is delivered up-and in like manner, He who subjected (all things), and He to whom they were subjected-must necessarily be two different beings.

Chapter VII: “Whatever, therefore, was the substance of the Word that I designate a Person, I claim for it the name of the Son; and while I recognize the Son, I assert His distinction as second to the Father.”

“… I confess that I call God and His Word- the Father and His Son-Two.”

Chapter IX: “Now, observe, my assertion is that the Father is one, and the Son is one, and the Spirit one, and that They are distinct from Each Other.”

Chapter X: “In like manner, in order to be a father, I have a son, for I never can be a son to myself; and in order to be a son, I have a father, it being impossible for me ever to be my own father.”

Chapter XI: “If you want me to believe Him to be both the Father and the Son, show me some other passage where it is declared ‘The Lord said unto Himself, I am my own Son, to-day have I begotten myself’ or again ‘Before the morning did I beget myself’.”

Chapter XII: “..according to John ‘The Word was God,’ then you have two Beings – One that commands that the thing be made, and the Other that executes the order and creates.”


37 posted on 03/13/2013 11:22:05 AM PDT by teppe (... for my God ... for my Family ... for my Country ....)
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To: teppe

Not one time in my life have I ever said “convert or die”....so unmormon like to accuse me of killing people.


38 posted on 03/13/2013 11:23:50 AM PDT by svcw (Why is one cell on another planet considered life, and in the womb it is not.)
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To: Colofornian

Sorry I have to go

But remember ... Tertullian knew more about Christ than the Pagan Emperor Constantine and his partially dictated “Nicene Creed”

Sorry to know that you would trash Tertullians beliefs and embrace the Pagan Emperor Constantines.


39 posted on 03/13/2013 11:24:22 AM PDT by teppe (... for my God ... for my Family ... for my Country ....)
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To: greyfoxx39

Interestingly all the studies even those conducted by SLC lds themselves are not believed by certain people.
But what can on except when that one calls God and Jesus a liars. ((shrug))


40 posted on 03/13/2013 11:27:28 AM PDT by svcw (Why is one cell on another planet considered life, and in the womb it is not.)
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To: teppe

Apparently you did not read the study. Oh, well.


41 posted on 03/13/2013 11:29:19 AM PDT by svcw (Why is one cell on another planet considered life, and in the womb it is not.)
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To: teppe

After accusing others of “picking and choosing” from the Bible...it is laughable that you do the same with Tertullian...

If you would continue with his theology (or summary of it...)

“The soul was not preexistent...” (Still want to cite him as being “closer to your Christ?)

“The Son is distinct from the Father, and the Spirit from both the Father and the Son (Adv. Praxeam, xxv). “These three are one substance, not one person; and it is said, ‘I and my Father are one’ in respect not of the singularity of number but the unity of the substance.”

Fact is, the trinity is one of the many glorys of faith that make Christianity a “walk” not a destination.


42 posted on 03/13/2013 11:31:38 AM PDT by wheatmiller
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To: Colofornian

Last of all, as I have to go now

I invite all Christians to worship the Resurrected Lord Jesus Christ with us at his Church.

And would encourage you in Christ’s spirit to worhip him and not the implement (cross) of his death that in many ways has become an idol.


43 posted on 03/13/2013 11:32:25 AM PDT by teppe (... for my God ... for my Family ... for my Country ....)
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To: wheatmiller

Sorry Read “Against Praexeus”.

Everyone knows that the Current Nicene Creed was essentially an Alexandrian creation through Alexander the Bishop of Alexandria and his faithful thug Athenasius.

Everyone also knows that Constantine Dictated parts of the Nicene Creed and that when he finally was baptised he tried to kill it.

Everyone knows that Justin the Apostate ressurected the Nicene Creed from the dustbin of history to destroy Christianity

and everyone knows that Emperor Theodosius instituted the Nicene Creed by the Eddict of Thessalonica which required belief in the Nicene Creed on the pain of Death.

one of the main differences between my Christology and yours, is that mine wasn’t historically established by murder and capital punishment.


44 posted on 03/13/2013 11:38:01 AM PDT by teppe (... for my God ... for my Family ... for my Country ....)
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To: teppe

WHOAAAA! We need a qualifed FR EMT here... I’ve arrived...

“I’m a Momon, and I pay very little attention to the Easter Bunny!”

If you are really a Mormon, I expect you to know the correct spelling.

“My devotion is to the living Jesus Christ, my Lord and my Savior, the son of the living God the Father. And my goal is to merit and maintain the Holy Ghost in my heart in worship my Father in Heaven. If that’s not enough for you .... so be it, it is enough for my Savior Jesus Christ.”

1. You left out the created Christ, who atoned by sweating, married, had kids, became a mormonic god... one of a minimum of 4 mormonic earth gods.
2. You have failed at your goal of merit - as has every human who ever lived. This is why we all need the real Biblical Christ who always was God.
3. Holy Spirit - I assume you mean the mormonic Holy Ghost, who was naughty and didn’t get a body???
4. Father in Heaven - I assume you mean the mormonic Father, who was created, used to be a god, has sex in the heavens with Heavenly Mother/s?

“Why would I want to attend another church service and worship a medieval definition of Christ who is ....”

This shows the lack of understanding of Church history, doctrinal history, Biblical teaching and logic. Someone has to say this to you teppe.

“....three in one and one in three but never really one but never really three, whos circumference is everywhere, center is nowhere, so large he fills the universe, so small he dwells in hearts and all the while without body, parts or passions..... (need I go on?)”

That all seems to hard for you to think about. Let me give you one to ponder as a mormon...

How can God be Omnipotent, if there is more than one god?

“Sorry guys, but the truth and work of our Lord Jesus Christ will continue either with or without your support.”

Satan is not easily discouraged. We know this.


45 posted on 03/13/2013 11:42:14 AM PDT by aMorePerfectUnion (Gone rogue, gone Galt, gone international, gone independent. Gone.)
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To: Colofornian

Mormons can’t promote Easter since they claim Joseph Smith decides who and who does not get into Heaven. That contradicts the Bible; and why would they want to point out that Jesus arose from the grave and Smith did not.

Gee, follow someone who arose from the grave or someone who did not? Not a tough choice for me.


46 posted on 03/13/2013 11:43:44 AM PDT by SeaHawkFan
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To: teppe

I attended ward for months and months, and never once heard “resurrected Lord Jesus Christ”, and have person experience with lds since 1962, and have never once heard my mormon family say “resurrected Lord Jesus Christ”.
So I have this question for you, what church are you now attending, as it can’t be ward.


47 posted on 03/13/2013 11:44:31 AM PDT by svcw (Why is one cell on another planet considered life, and in the womb it is not.)
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To: teppe

I believe it is you that should read the entire work as it Tertullian’s “Defense, in all essential points, the Doctrine of the Holy Trinity”

He is considered the one who advanced the doctrine.


48 posted on 03/13/2013 11:46:06 AM PDT by wheatmiller
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To: teppe
"So in another 180 years we should be somewhere around half a billion!"

Drink hearty my friend!

Here are some tips to get you there faster:

1. Instead of keeping everyone on the rolls (even though dead) until age 100, change the software to extend lifespan to 200 (it's all a lie anyway, why would it matter?)

2. Never let anyone take their name off the roll. That will stop the dramatic attrition.

3. REQUIRE at least 10 kids for a Temple Recommend!

4. Baptize Dead people into full membership! Why fool around. The rest of the temple ceremonies aren't in mormon writings, just make up some new ones!

49 posted on 03/13/2013 11:49:36 AM PDT by aMorePerfectUnion (Gone rogue, gone Galt, gone international, gone independent. Gone.)
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To: SeaHawkFan
why would they want to point out that Jesus arose from the grave and Smith did not.

Give it time....there is still time for the mormon church to proclaim that Smith HAS indeed risen from the dead and the fanatical members will swoon in delight.

That might put a few more posteriors in the pews and coins in the coffers.

Great point, BTW.

50 posted on 03/13/2013 11:56:48 AM PDT by greyfoxx39 (Thanks Mitt.)
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