Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Pope Francis seen as humble man who can unite, rebuild Church
cna ^ | March 14, 2013 | Adelaide Darling

Posted on 03/15/2013 3:30:38 PM PDT by NYer

(L-R) Kim Daniels, Prof. Robert George, and Maureen Ferguson

Washington D.C., Mar 14, 2013 / 05:10 pm (CNA/EWTN News).- American Catholic scholars and commentators praised Pope Francis as a spiritual leader for our times, with the ability to unify and renew the Catholic Church.

“As a man who can both preach the Gospel of Jesus Christ boldly and confidently, yet exhibit humility, he looks like he’s got the design for the time and situation that we’re in,” said Catholic intellectual Robert P. George, who is the McCormick Professor of Jurisprudence at Princeton University.

On March 13, Cardinal Jorge Bergoglio of Buenos Aires was elected as Pope, taking the name Francis. He is both the first Jesuit Pope and the first Latin American Pope.

George told CNA that the election of Cardinal Bergoglio as Pope is “not completely surprising.”

The new Pope is one of the “leading Latin-American Cardinals,” a strong candidate in the 2005 conclave and “highly respected in the Church,” he explained.

The professor also commented that the new Pope is “a man of simplicity and humility,” taking public transportation while he was archbishop of Buenos Aires and living in a modest apartment where he cooked for himself.

George noted the new Pope’s adamant teachings on caring for the poor and observed that the Pontiff is “a strong critic of homosexual conduct and same-sex marriage,” while maintaining what he described as a humble and charitable approach. 

The professor recounted the story of the Holy Father as an archbishop visiting an AIDS hospice on Holy Thursday in order “to wash and kiss the feet of twelve AIDS patients.” These actions, he said, symbolize “that the Church does not condemn the person, but affirms and loves,” even as it rejects sin.

George also commented on the Pope’s outreach to Eastern Churches, a trait that he said few people have noticed. As archbishop of Buenos Aires, Pope Francis served as Ordinary of Eastern-rite Catholics in Argentina, who lacked their own ordinary.

“Relations with those Churches, especially in the Middle East, is very important, especially in a time when Christianity is beginning to disappear from the Middle East because of political problems,” George stressed.

He added that it is “very important for the Church to have a continuing Christian presence in the Holy Land” and for the new Pope to understand the problems faced by Eastern-rite Churches and how to support Christians in that region.

“This is a pope that you cannot put in a box,” said Maureen Ferguson, senior policy advisor for the Catholic Association. “This is a Jesuit who is now named Francis who is also associated with Communion and Liberation. I certainly cannot put him in any ideological box.”

“Through his example and through his teachings, he is going to lead the Church so beautifully in the New Evangelization,” she remarked.

Ferguson also discussed the “global perspective” the Pope brings by merging his Argentine roots with a familiarity of Europe and the global focus of the Jesuit order.

In addition, the Pope defies clear categories and “will do a good job of uniting the Church,” she said, pointing to the new Pontiff’s diverse background, humble life and staunch orthodoxy, as well as his scholarly work and familiarity with the Curia.

Pope Francis shows us that there is not a “divide between liberal Catholic issues and conservative Catholic issues,” Ferguson stressed. Rather, he teaches us that there should be a “unity of the whole - that we defend the voiceless whether that’s the poor immigrant or the unborn.”

“The fact that the conclave came to consensus so quickly when there was thought to be no front-runner,” she continued, “indicates that he will really unite the Church.”

Echoing these sentiments was Kim Daniels, director of Catholic Voices USA, a group of lay faithful seeking to defend Catholic teaching in public life.

Daniels told CNA that Pope Francis’ election “shows that the Catholic Church doesn't fit into familiar left/right categories.”

She added that “Cardinal Bergoglio brings so much to the papacy,” as a man “of great personal holiness and humility who leads a life of simplicity.”

“At the same time he's an intellectual, a pastor, and something of an outsider at the Vatican,” she explained.

“Most of all his choice demonstrates that the Church serves the voiceless and the vulnerable wherever we find them: he's deeply committed to the unborn as well as for the poor.”

The faithful can be sure that Pope Francis will strive to follow St. Francis of Assisi in responding to God’s call to “rebuild my Church,” Daniels said.

Even from his initial address to the faithful from the balcony of St. Peter’s, she said, “we know that he seeks to unite Catholics and to evangelize the world, especially in cultures that have grown indifferent to the faith.”


TOPICS: Catholic; Current Events; Ministry/Outreach
KEYWORDS: catholic; popefrancis

1 posted on 03/15/2013 3:30:38 PM PDT by NYer
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: netmilsmom; thefrankbaum; Tax-chick; GregB; saradippity; Berlin_Freeper; Litany; SumProVita; ...
George also commented on the Pope’s outreach to Eastern Churches, a trait that he said few people have noticed. As archbishop of Buenos Aires, Pope Francis served as Ordinary of Eastern-rite Catholics in Argentina, who lacked their own ordinary.

“Relations with those Churches, especially in the Middle East, is very important, especially in a time when Christianity is beginning to disappear from the Middle East because of political problems,” George stressed.

While many of you here in the west may not yuet recognize the timeliness of this, one need only look towards Europe to see what awaits us in another few years. There are villages in Syria where the entire christian population has now been eradicated. Ethnic cleansing. Today, Syria ... tomorrow, the US.

2 posted on 03/15/2013 3:32:58 PM PDT by NYer (Beware the man of a single book - St. Thomas Aquinas)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: NYer

We are blessed to have this Pope at this time in history.


3 posted on 03/15/2013 3:39:13 PM PDT by trisham (Zen is not easy. It takes effort to attain nothingness. And then what do you have? Bupkis.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: trisham

AMEN....THANK YOU, GOD!!!


4 posted on 03/15/2013 3:48:02 PM PDT by Ann Archy
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: NYer; HarleyD; fish hawk; Alex Murphy; wmfights

Perhaps all the various splinter groups of the RCC need uniting. He will never bring those who have been given biblical faith anywhere near Rome. On the contrary, we invite any still in that organization to swim the Tiber the other direction...into the light of Jesus Christ, alone. That is, if He permits.


5 posted on 03/15/2013 3:50:27 PM PDT by Dutchboy88
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Dutchboy88
On the contrary, we invite any still in that organization to swim the Tiber the other direction...into the light of Jesus Christ, alone. That is, if He permits.

A good dose of humor on a week of celebration. Thanks!

6 posted on 03/15/2013 4:17:52 PM PDT by NYer (Beware the man of a single book - St. Thomas Aquinas)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: Dutchboy88

Still trying to plug the dike? :D


7 posted on 03/15/2013 4:30:09 PM PDT by JCBreckenridge (Texas is a state of mind - Steinbeck)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: Dutchboy88; NYer; HarleyD; fish hawk; Alex Murphy; wmfights; JCBreckenridge
Perhaps all the various splinter groups of the RCC need uniting.

All 2,942 of them!

8 posted on 03/15/2013 4:50:46 PM PDT by Alex Murphy ("If you are not firm in faith, you will not be firm at all" - Isaiah 7:9)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: NYer
"On the contrary, we invite any still in that organization to swim the Tiber the other direction...into the light of Jesus Christ, alone. That is, if He permits."

"A good dose of humor on a week of celebration. Thanks!"

If this is your definition of humor, it explains a great deal. But, you are welcome. Now, to the Epistles...

9 posted on 03/15/2013 4:58:42 PM PDT by Dutchboy88
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: Dutchboy88
"He will never bring those who have been given biblical faith anywhere near Rome."

ROTFLMAO

No one has been given "biblical" anything much less acceptance of our Savior Jesus Christ as He makes Himself known in the Bible when they first throw out seven books of the Bible, and then refuse to accept the words of Jesus Christ Himself in the Luther Subset they do keep.

Such poor deluded folks are blinded by the powerful popular delusion that following Eve and worshiping their own, "Most High and Holy Self", is the same thing as following Christ.

10 posted on 03/15/2013 5:14:00 PM PDT by Rashputin (Jesus Christ doesn't evacuate His troops, He leads them to victory.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: Dutchboy88; Rashputin
On the contrary, we invite any still in that organization to swim the Tiber the other direction...into the light of Jesus Christ, alone. That is, if He permits.

According to Scripture, Christ wanted us to be one (John 17:22-23). We are all as a Church to be of one mind and to think the same (Philippians 2:2; Romans 15:5). There is only to be one "faith" (Ephesians 4:3-6), not many. For the Church is Christ's Body and Christ only had one Body, not many.

So you are offering catholics an opportunity to leave the Church, founded and established by Jesus Christ, for any one of the 60,000+ denominations that all consider themselves to be "the" church of Jesus Christ. Tell us, dear friend, in which one of those will we find the Truth?

11 posted on 03/15/2013 5:39:55 PM PDT by NYer (Beware the man of a single book - St. Thomas Aquinas)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 9 | View Replies]

To: Dutchboy88; NYer

Dear, dear Dutchboy, perhaps you are drawn to these Catholic threads because the Holy Spirit is directing you toward joining us in the one true Church.


12 posted on 03/15/2013 6:12:51 PM PDT by Bigg Red (Restore us, O God of hosts; let your face shine, that we may be saved! -Ps80)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 9 | View Replies]

As a Methodist, and watching the smoke stack in Rome, and waiting on seeing who was named Pope, I silently prayed God was watching over this decision......

I felt Blessed and Honored when he came forward as Pope Francis 1 and I feel good, really good with this decision...may He heal this world and get people back down on their knees...

13 posted on 03/15/2013 7:02:47 PM PDT by haircutter (,,,)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 12 | View Replies]

Many years ago I had a customer who went to Our Lady of Fatima, and then on to the Vatican to visit with Pope John Paul ll and she had her metals and crosses Blessed by him... I was one of the very fortunate ones to receive a metal that I wear on a gold chain with a cross, a gift of my daughter and mother...I sweetly touch this metal when I need peace and comfort...I feel Blessed... Thank You dear friend for this cherished gift..♥
14 posted on 03/15/2013 7:11:38 PM PDT by haircutter (,,,)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 13 | View Replies]

To: haircutter
What a truly touching tribute to your customer! You wrote: Many years ago I had a customer who went to Our Lady of Fatima, and then on to the Vatican to visit with Pope John Paul ll and she had her metals and crosses Blessed by him.

Medals are considered 'sacramentals'. What makes them very special is that they have the blessing of the priest (in your case, Pope John Paul II), who has received the special anointing for consecrating the bread and wine used in the celebration of the mass. You not only have a medal blessed by a pope but one who, since his death, has been elevated as a Blessed and will soon be declared a saint. Here is an interesting and true story about a blessing given by JPII.

JERUSALEM (CNA) -July 2008 - In the Jubilee Year of 2000, Pope John Paul II made a pilgrimage to the Holy Land stopping at one point to bless an olive tree on the Mount of the Beatitudes. A forester with the Jewish National Fund reports that this tree is the only one producing olives this year.

"It is a miracle," Yossi Karni from the JNF, which maintains the plot, told local media.

During a visit to northern Israel, in March of 2000, the late Pontiff blessed an olive tree that was planted on the Mount of Beatitudes, which was previously called Mt. Eremos. According to tradition, Jesus gave the Sermon on the Mount on this mountain, which is located near the Sea of Galilee.

Israel is currently facing what Uri Shani, Israel’s Water Authority director, called “the worst crisis in 80 years.” “Israel's major sources of drinking water, including the Sea of Galilee and the mountain aquifer, are below their ‘red lines,’ meaning they are not recommended to draw water,” he said at a news conference last month.

Karni explained that all the trees on the plot were treated equally, but the ones that did not receive the blessing have not given fruit this year.

"They get treated the same, watered the same," he said, adding that some trees had even started to wither, which he could not explain.

When he was asked what he would do with the olives, Karni told Israel's Channel 10 he might market their "holy oil.



Olive tree planted by pope JP II

May this cherished gift continue to accompany you on your journey and lead you to the Truth.

15 posted on 03/16/2013 4:20:50 AM PDT by NYer (Beware the man of a single book - St. Thomas Aquinas)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 14 | View Replies]

Comment #16 Removed by Moderator

To: NYer
THANKS for your comforting message..♥
17 posted on 03/16/2013 9:05:36 AM PDT by haircutter (,,,)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 15 | View Replies]

To: NYer; RnMomof7; HarleyD; fish hawk; Alex Murphy; wmfights
"According to Scripture, Christ wanted us to be one (John 17:22-23). We are all as a Church to be of one mind and to think the same (Philippians 2:2; Romans 15:5). There is only to be one "faith" (Ephesians 4:3-6), not many."

Well, you have some of this correct. There is, however, no such word as "church" in the Scriptures. Here is yet another fabrication of Rome (or perhaps Germany). The Greek word for "assembly" implies a unified gathering. And, it was a common word used even for the riotous group in Ephesus (Acts 19:30). Now this particular use matches the Roman organization well.

It is Jesus who is building His gathering, not Rome. And, He did not build it in Rome, but in His mind and heart and from among the elect, those He has chosen before the foundation of the world. He is the Chief Cornerstone, the Apostles are the initial blocks, and those pre-destined by the Messiah Himself are a part of it. Rome has been left in its chains of error.

Certainly, Rome attempted to hijack the concept of the universal gathering described by Jesus (around 250 AD...you folks may wish to read non-revisionist history), but they created instead one of the most skewed cults in the human experience second only, perhaps, to Isalm (its vile cousin). It is the RCC cult which we are inviting you to leave...if Jesus permits it. If not, then Esau and Rome will be long time partners.

18 posted on 03/16/2013 9:10:24 AM PDT by Dutchboy88
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 11 | View Replies]

To: Dutchboy88

The Reformation churches in Holland and the rest of NW Europe have morphed into stinking synagogues of Satan.

How can you be sure you are right?


19 posted on 03/16/2013 9:15:23 AM PDT by Jim Noble (When strong, avoid them. Attack their weaknesses. Emerge to their surprise.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: Jim Noble
"The Reformation churches in Holland and the rest of NW Europe have morphed into stinking synagogues of Satan.

How can you be sure you are right?"

You are right. Certainly any group which departs from the Scripture will end in the sewer. Rome is a perfect example (pedophile priests, homosexual supporting universities, etc.). So, rocks and glass houses and all of that, my FRiend.

If you define "right" as adhering to the Scriptures, you have identified the biblical method...stick to the Scriptures not tradition.

20 posted on 03/16/2013 10:10:50 AM PDT by Dutchboy88
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 19 | View Replies]

To: Dutchboy88
There is, however, no such word as "church" in the Scriptures.

Matthew 18:17, Matthew 16:18. You are probably thinking of the word "bible" which does not appear in scripture.

21 posted on 03/16/2013 11:20:47 AM PDT by NYer (Beware the man of a single book - St. Thomas Aquinas)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 18 | View Replies]

To: NYer; RnMomof7; HarleyD; fish hawk; Alex Murphy; wmfights
"Matthew 18:17, Matthew 16:18. You are probably thinking of the word "bible" which does not appear in scripture."

This is precisely what I was getting at. The RCC has no idea what the Book actually says. Check Acts 19:32 (the Ephesus riot) wherein Luke reports that the "ekklasia" was in confusion. That is the word which you claim is the basis for the RCC (which I suspect is actually a mob like Ephesus). But, the Roman organization has morphed "ekklasia" into "Church" (from Kirk), and thus fashioned ecclesiastic, ecclesiology, etc. Check your own references and lexicons to see if this is not so.

I repeat, there is no such word as "Church" in the Scriptures, but the term "popular assembly" or "congregation" has been twisted by Rome to justify its self-appointed, self-aggrandizing, monster of an organization. And, should you notice I Cor. 11:16 wherein the "ekklasia" has become plural, "ekklasiai", "assemblies" all over the world...not one "ekklasia", you will find that these gatherings were independent congregations of believers each given the tasks of understanding the Gospel and teaching it to those who would listen.

This history flies in the face of Rome's monolithic giant, central headquarters, singularly pronounced doctrines from hell.

22 posted on 03/16/2013 1:54:38 PM PDT by Dutchboy88
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 21 | View Replies]

To: Dutchboy88
This history flies in the face of Rome's monolithic giant, central headquarters, singularly pronounced doctrines from hell.

Most appreciative of your interpretation, not only of scripture but also of Catholic Church doctrine. I look forward to you posting an example of one of the church's doctrines from hell. And, when you do, please post a link to your resource material. Thank you.

23 posted on 03/16/2013 4:54:38 PM PDT by NYer (Beware the man of a single book - St. Thomas Aquinas)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 22 | View Replies]

To: NYer
"I look forward to you posting an example of one of the church's doctrines from hell. And, when you do, please post a link to your resource material. Thank you."

"The Synod furthermore declares, that, in adults, the beginning of the said Justification is to be derived from the prevenient grace of God, through Jesus Christ, that is to say, from his vocation, whereby, without any merits existing on their parts, they are called; that so they who by sins were alienated from God, may be disposed through his quickening and assisting grace, to convert themselves to their own justification, by freely assenting to and cooperating with that said grace: in such sort that, while God touches the heart of man by the illumination of the Holy Ghost, neither is man himself utterly inactive while he receives that inspiration, forasmuch as he is also able to reject it."

Canons and Decrees of the Council of Trent, Sixth Session, Chap. 5 in CC, vol. 2, 92.

Really?

Rom. 9:16 "So then, it does not depend on the man who wills (chooses) or the man who runs (acts), but on God who has mercy."

Paul, the writer; God, the Author.

24 posted on 03/16/2013 5:25:25 PM PDT by Dutchboy88
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 23 | View Replies]

To: Dutchboy88; RnMomof7; HarleyD; fish hawk; Alex Murphy; CynicalBear; Iscool
Matt. 16:18 And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it.

I hope you don't mind moving in a little different direction. FWIW, I don't see much point in talking with RC's about this passage they are so caught up in church membership as a means to salvation there's not much point.

In looking at this passage I believe the key to understanding it is the wording "gates of hell". Gates don't move other than on a hinge, so it's a huge leap to think that "gates" are attacking Christians gathered together to worship and fellowship. A better understanding of a "gate" is how it's used to keep in something or keep out something. So in this passage where Jesus has declared that believing He is "the Christ, the Son of the living God" is the foundation of His church" and then adds the comment about "gates" He must be referencing something that is holding in believers.

Following this line of thought it occurs to me that what Jesus is really talking about are those believers in Abraham's bosom (see Luke 16:25). Prior to the crucifixion the debt for our sins was not paid. Where did these believers go and what contained them? I believe these believers were being contained in Abraham's bosom by the "gates of hell" and after the crucifixion these same gates could not contain those held in Abraham's bosom. I believe this understanding is more consistent with Scripture than the idea that some "gates" are attacking an institution.

25 posted on 03/17/2013 10:39:56 AM PDT by wmfights
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 22 | View Replies]

To: haircutter

**metals**????
copper
gold
silver
nickel

Which metal?


26 posted on 03/17/2013 10:42:04 AM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 14 | View Replies]

To: Salvation
P L A S T I C .....

SO I’M SEVENTY YEARS OLD AND MADE A SPELLING ERROR...AND ITS SO NICE OF YOU TO INSULT. MAY YOU CONTINUE TO LIVE YOUR PERFECT LIFE...and I'll live my humble one..

OK

27 posted on 03/17/2013 7:09:25 PM PDT by haircutter (,,,)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 26 | View Replies]

To: wmfights
Following this line of thought it occurs to me that what Jesus is really talking about are those believers in Abraham's bosom (see Luke 16:25). Prior to the crucifixion the debt for our sins was not paid. Where did these believers go and what contained them? I believe these believers were being contained in Abraham's bosom by the "gates of hell" and after the crucifixion these same gates could not contain those held in Abraham's bosom. I believe this understanding is more consistent with Scripture than the idea that some "gates" are attacking an institution.

Exactly...I've been saying that for years because that's what the bible says...

Jesus has the keys to the gates of Hell and the gates are wide open...For the time being...

The Catholic religion doesn't have a clue what the verse says or means...They use this Abraham's Bosom as their unGodly purgatory and and the average Catholic doesn't even know the gates are wide open...They (their purgatory) couldn't keep a Christian in even if the Christian is a blind paraplegic...

There is no cleansing period or place...You better have it right when you take your last breath on this earth...

28 posted on 03/18/2013 4:51:07 AM PDT by Iscool (uee)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 25 | View Replies]

To: NYer
Pope Francis shows us that there is not a “divide between liberal Catholic issues and conservative Catholic issues,” Ferguson stressed. Rather, he teaches us that there should be a “unity of the whole - that we defend the voiceless whether that’s the poor immigrant or the unborn.”

Daniels told CNA that Pope Francis’ election “shows that the Catholic Church doesn't fit into familiar left/right categories.”

Nice that somebody finally admits it publicly...

29 posted on 03/18/2013 5:05:34 AM PDT by Iscool (uee)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: wmfights; Iscool
Gates don't move other than on a hinge, so it's a huge leap to think that "gates" are attacking Christians gathered together to worship and fellowship. A better understanding of a "gate" is how it's used to keep in something or keep out something. So in this passage where Jesus has declared that believing He is "the Christ, the Son of the living God" is the foundation of His church" and then adds the comment about "gates" He must be referencing something that is holding in believers.

Gates also are opened and closed with a key. The second strand in the braided rope of Petrine authority is the image of steward. The steward in a royal household appears throughout the Old Testament record. The patriarch Joseph works with a steward in the palace in Egypt. King Saul has a steward, as does the prince Mephibosheth, but the most important image of steward in the Old Testament for understanding Matthew 16 is in Isaiah 22.

There the prophet foretells the fall of one royal steward and the succession of another. Shebna is being replaced by Eliakim, and the prophet says to the rejected Shebna, "I will clothe him with your robe and fasten your sash around him and hand your authority over to him. He will be a father to those who live in Jerusalem and to the house of Judah. I will place on his shoulder the key to the house of David; what he opens no one can shut, and what he shuts no one can open" (Is 22:21-22).

The true holder of the keys to the kingdom is the king himself, and in the Book of Revelation we see that the risen and glorified Christ holds the power of the keys—the power to bind and loose. John has a vision of Christ who says, "I am the First and the Last. I am the Living One; I was dead, and behold I am alive for ever and ever! And I hold the keys of death and Hades" (Rv 1:18).

So the king holds the keys of the kingdom, but he delegates his power to the steward, and the keys of the kingdom are the symbol of this delegated authority. The keys not only opened all the doors, but they provided access to the store houses and financial resources of the king. In addition, the keys of the kingdom were worn on a sash that was a ceremonial badge of office. The passage from Isaiah and the customs all reveal that the role of the royal steward was an office given by the king, and that it was a successive office—the keys being handed to the next steward as a sign of the continuing delegated authority of the king himself (See "A Successive Ministry," above).

Isaiah 22 provides the Old Testament context that Jesus’ disciples would have understood completely as he quoted this particular passage in Matthew 16. When Jesus said to Peter, "I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven," his disciples would recognize the passage from Isaiah. They would understand that not only was Jesus calling himself the King of his kingdom, but that he was appointing Peter as his royal steward. That John in Revelation sees the ascended and glorified Christ holding the eternal keys only confirms the intention of Jesus to delegate that power to Peter—the foundation stone of his Church.

Catholic scholars are not alone in interpreting Matthew 16:17-19 as a direct quotation of Isaiah 22. Stephen Ray, in Upon This Rock, cites numerous Protestant biblical scholars who support this understanding and affirm that Jesus is delegating his authority over life and death, heaven and hell, to the founder of his Church on earth.

30 posted on 03/18/2013 5:38:17 AM PDT by NYer (Beware the man of a single book - St. Thomas Aquinas)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 25 | View Replies]

To: wmfights
"I hope you don't mind moving in a little different direction."

Not at all.

"I believe these believers were being contained in Abraham's bosom by the "gates of hell" and after the crucifixion these same gates could not contain those held in Abraham's bosom. I believe this understanding is more consistent with Scripture than the idea that some "gates" are attacking an institution."

This approach seems to respect the "timeline" effect of the Scriptural story. That is, you are noticing the unfolding plot as it reveals a little at a time. The captives had not yet been "freed". If readers would take this approach with the rest of the four Gospels, they would be shocked to find Jesus is not teaching "Christianity", but the Law. "You have heard that the ancients were told,'Thou shalt not commit murder'...But I say to you that every one who is angry with his brother shall be guilty before the court...enough to go into the hell of fire." Hmmm.

This section is the context of the so-called "Lord's prayer" which many folks recite as if it is appropriate for Gentile believers. They fail to read the ending..."For if you do not forgive men, then your Father will NOT forgive your transgressions." Is this the Gospel? Perhaps in Rome.

31 posted on 03/18/2013 7:03:46 AM PDT by Dutchboy88
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 25 | View Replies]

To: Iscool
Jesus has the keys to the gates of Hell and the gates are wide open...For the time being...

I'm with you Brother!

I believe we can find these answers in Scripture with the guidance of the Holy Spirit. I think too many just believe whatever their church tells them instead of thinking for themselves.

I can't imagine how awesome it must have been for those believers to see Jesus declare victory and take them home.

.They use this Abraham's Bosom as their unGodly purgatory and and the average Catholic doesn't even know the gates are wide open..

Unfortunately most of them think works are a part of their justification. From my studies it seems clear to me Abraham's bosom is gone with the crucifixion.

32 posted on 03/18/2013 7:07:21 AM PDT by wmfights
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 28 | View Replies]

To: Dutchboy88; Iscool
This approach seems to respect the "timeline" effect of the Scriptural story. That is, you are noticing the unfolding plot as it reveals a little at a time. The captives had not yet been "freed".

Great point!

We often try and impose what occurs during the Church Age (after Pentecost) on earlier periods. When Jesus Christ was carrying out His ministry He only went to the Jews (with a few exceptions). He preached the Gospel of the Kingdom and it was only after Pentecost that the Gospel of Grace was taught and extended to the Gentiles. Yet there is a large school of thought within Christianity that thinks there is no difference in either period.

If the latter were true where were the pre-Crucifixion believers? If their sins had already been paid for why would we need a Crucifixion in the first place.

Eph. 4:9 Now that He Ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth?

When Jesus was crucified he told the thief that believed, "today you will be in paradise". He did not say you will be with me and my Father in Heaven. We see the same confusion when Matt. 16:18 and "the gates of Hell" are misinterpreted to benefit a large institution.

33 posted on 03/18/2013 7:55:42 AM PDT by wmfights
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 31 | View Replies]

To: wmfights
"He preached the Gospel of the Kingdom and it was only after Pentecost that the Gospel of Grace was taught and extended to the Gentiles. Yet there is a large school of thought within Christianity that thinks there is no difference in either period."

I concur. Notice even Matt. 15:24, "But He answered and said, 'I was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.'" Yet, He had mercy on the Gentile woman & her daughter. But, you are correct, we had not yet been grafted into share Messiah.

I might offer this small adjustment to your remark about Pentecost. It seems the Gentiles inclusion actually occurred at the shedding of His blood. Eph. 2:11ff, "...remember that you were at that time separate from Christ, excluded from the commenwealth of Israel, and strangers to the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world. But NOW in Christ Jesus you who FORMERLY were far off have been brought near by the BLOOD of Christ." It was during the 40 days following His resurrection that the 11 were told to take His message all over the world. It became very obvious at Pentecost with Peter's remarks.

Nevertheless, the "timeline" effect you pointed out with the "gates" & "Abraham's bosom" is a very important concept and ought to affect our hermeneutic all through the Scriptures. The result would be a Gospel that is significantly clearer and absent the muddled message of "Grace plus just a little Law" we now hear from many quarters. No more "Golden Rule", no more "Beatitudes for Living Right", no more "take your sacrifice to the priest" blended with the real message of grace.

It is no wonder Rome cannot deliver a true message with their attempts to amalgamate the four Gospels into "Christian Living". Many of the "protesters" cannot recognize what you have identified.

34 posted on 03/18/2013 8:31:09 AM PDT by Dutchboy88
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 33 | View Replies]

To: Dutchboy88
The result would be a Gospel that is significantly clearer and absent the muddled message of "Grace plus just a little Law" we now hear from many quarters. No more "Golden Rule", no more "Beatitudes for Living Right", no more "take your sacrifice to the priest" blended with the real message of grace.

Amen!

Amazing what a little Bible study can do for you if it's done outside the "white noise" of a vested institutional interest.

35 posted on 03/18/2013 12:14:33 PM PDT by wmfights
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 34 | View Replies]

To: wmfights
"Amazing what a little Bible study can do for you if it's done outside the "white noise" of a vested institutional interest."

Excellent point. I'm going to borrow that quote, if it is alright with you.

36 posted on 03/18/2013 12:38:13 PM PDT by Dutchboy88
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 35 | View Replies]

To: NYer

Nice story...And certainly a nice piece of history...But it had absolutely zilch to do with church prophecy or the Apostles...


37 posted on 03/19/2013 4:38:23 AM PDT by Iscool (uee)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 30 | View Replies]

To: NYer
Pope Francis seen as humble man who can unite, rebuild Church

Pope Francis – the real deal – has Audience with Cardinals
Pope Francis—The Journey Begins
Report: Pope Francis bans disgraced Cardinal Law from his church
Pope tells cardinals: discover new ways to evangelize
Does this pope sound like a liberal to YOU?
Pope Francis could renew Catholicism in Americas, says Knights' chief
Letter #47: To Mary (Pope Francis prays at (tomb of Pope St. Pius V) [Catholic Caucus]
Pope To cardinals: Don't Give In To Devil's "Bitterness" And "Pessimism"
Pope Pays His Hotel Bill
Newly elected Pope knows Ukrainian Catholic Church, its Liturgy & Spirituality (Ecumenical)
'Go and Repair My House'
Why Did Pope Francis Go to St Mary Major?
Argentine priest kidnapped in Dirty War reconciled w/ Pope Francis (Don't blame Pope for Pinochet)
Weigel: "Bergoglio is an Old-School Jesuit, Formed by Classic Ignatian Spirituality..."
Vatican Responds to Accusations About Cardinal Bergoglio and the "Dirty War"
Pope Francis Knows What Must Be Done
Pope Francis tied up in Argentina's 'dirty war' debate
Pope Francis and the Traditional Liturgy
Links of Pope Francis to military dictatorship
Cardinal Bergoglio wrote to Fr. Gruner about Fatima [Catholic Caucus]

Why Pope Francis May Be a Catholic Nightmare [barf alert]
Pope Francis I: It’s All In the Name
Vatican official: Gay marriage a “revolutionary project” for “complete destruction of the family”
Pope Francis, and Blessed Aloysius and Blessed Agnellus: how the saints chose Bergoglio for pope
The Future Pope Francis: Additional Interviews and Writings
Pope Francis – What’s in a Name?
Pope Francis Warns Church Could Become 'Compassionate NGO'
Jesuits Surprised that First of Their Brethren is Elected Pope
World Jewish Congress head praises Pope Francis (Jewish-Catholic ties "best in 2,000 years")
How Summorum Pontificum was blocked and trampled on in Buenos Aires
Slaves of the Immac. Heart of Mary Profess Our Filial Submission to Pope Francis (Catholic Caucus)
Gay Advocacy Groups Rush to Demonize Pope Francis
Traditionalists and Pope Francis: Can We Take a Deep Breath and Please Calm Down?
What I would have said at the Consistory: An interview with Cardinal Jorge Mario Bergoglio
Pope Francis Offers His Second Blessing to Pregnant Mom, Unborn Baby
Cdl. Bergoglio's Lenten Letter, 2013
UPDATE: Rorate Caeli’s diatribe against Pope Francis [Catholic Caucus]
Pope Francis: A Disappointment for Catholics Who Don't Like Being Catholic
Updates on Pope Francis’ first day as Pope – Great moments! (truly humble man)
New Pope Slips Out Of Vatican For morning Prayer Visit

Our First American Pope
Pope Francis I clear on denying Communion to those who facilitate in abortion
Jorge Mario Bergoglio, Profession: Servant of the Servants of God
EDITORIAL:Pope Francis I bridges conservative and progressive currents
New Pope Francis called homosexual ‘marriage’ a ‘machination of the Father of Lies’
Pope Francis Is First Catholic Pontiff From The Americas; He Is Known As A Humble Intellectual
New Pope lived simple life in Argentina
"Lowly, And Yet Chosen," Enter Pope Francis (some phenomenal firsts with this election)
10 Facts about Pope Francis
Vatican Web Site Updated
Full Text of Pope Francis’ Opening Address to Catholic Faithful
9 things you should know about Pope Francis
Pope Francis I promises to be strong pro-life world leader
New Pope celebrated Hanukkah as well as Christmas
New Pope- enemy of Catholic tradition
As Cardinal, Pope Francis condemned abortion even in rape cases
Profile: New pope, Jesuit Bergoglio, was runner-up in 2005 conclave
Jorge Mario Bergoglio elected pope, takes Francis as name
Cardinal Jorge Bergoglio: a Profile
HABEMUS PAPAM!!! (Live Thread)

38 posted on 03/20/2013 9:04:04 AM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson