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Mormon Scholars in the Humanities [Current BYU conference sought occultic 'divinization' papers]
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Posted on 03/15/2013 9:39:58 PM PDT by Colofornian

Most religious traditions begin with or develop a mystical tradition—a tradition given to the study and direct encounter with the divine, the ineffable, or the transcendent. Somewhat surprisingly, the theme of the mystical has in recent centuries been as prevalent outside of the religious sphere as inside, suggesting that it may be fundamental to the human experience generally. Mysticism leaves its traces in the arts and cultures studied by the humanities.

We also might ask what role mysticism plays in Mormonism. Is there a mystical tradition per se in Mormonism? Are mystical texts present in Mormon scripture? Are there mystical elements in Mormon ritual practice? Is anything constitutively mystical about the Mormon experience of the divine? What place remains for mysticism in a tradition that conflates the heavenly and the earthly? How might aspects of Mormonism compare with more explicitly mystical traditions? What role does the "secular mystical" play in Mormonism?

We are seeking papers on the mystical, whether in literature and art, or the relationship of mysticism to Mormonism. Some topics that might be considered are:

• The psychology of mysticism

• Meditation and mysticism

• Mysticism and conversion experiences (including secular conversions)

Visions and higher states of consciousness

Embodiment and out-of-body experiences

Divinization/deification

Emptying out and Pure Conscious Events

• Epistemology and the mystic

• Mysticism and nature

• Neuroscience and mysticism

We are interested in the work of all scholars (LDS or those whose work touches on Mormonism) whose research and writing engages the humanities, so the topics aren’t limited to those taking up the conference theme.

Conference Location

The 2013 conference will be held in Provo, Utah at Brigham Young University. Submission Guidelines We encourage scholars in the humanities, arts, history, and social sciences to submit paper proposals or panels. Creative submissions on the theme in story, verse, drama, or performance are also encouraged. Submit your proposal, including a 200-word abstract, through the on-line form at mormonscholars.net. Submission deadline: January 5, 2013.

Submit proposals to agoff@devry.edu

Questions can also be sent to Alan Goff at the email address listed above.

Full details available at the organizer's web site.


TOPICS: History; Other non-Christian; Religion & Culture; Theology
KEYWORDS: inman; lds; mormonism; mystical; occult
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Ah, a late-night Friday night macabre special! [cue the Twilight Zone music!]

Being held this very weekend @ BYU is a conference that is teaching occultic (read divination) principles and principles of Zen Buddhism and Jewish mysticism.

From another Web site -- Mormon Scholars.net -- where they have an announcement on this weekend's conference at BYU on "The Mystical": We now invite you to register for our 2013 conference, which will be held March 15 and 16, 2013, at Brigham Young University in Provo, Utah. This year’s meeting focuses on mysticism, with presentations by two notable guest speakers, David Loy and Elliot Wolfson, as well as papers on this and other topics.

Who is David Loy that will be teaching spiritual concepts to BYUians?

"David Robert Loy is a professor, writer, and Zen teacher in the Sanbo Kyodan tradition of Japanese Zen Buddhism." David R. Loy

From the conference announcement:

We are seeking papers on the mystical, whether in literature and art, or the relationship of mysticism to Mormonism. Some topics that might be considered are:

The psychology of mysticism

Meditation and mysticism

Mysticism and conversion experiences (including secular conversions)

Visions and higher states of consciousness

Embodiment and out-of-body experiences

Divinization/deification

Emptying out and Pure Conscious Events

* Epistemology and the mystic

Mysticism and nature

Neuroscience and mysticism

Divinization? (Divining "familiar spirits" & other spirit entities?) Deification (becoming gods)?

At BYU???

Well, now we know why ex-Lds history prof D. Michael Quinn wrote: Early Mormonism and the Magic World View

1 posted on 03/15/2013 9:39:58 PM PDT by Colofornian
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To: All
I guess all this occultism on the BYU campus isn't exactly "new" for Utah Mormonism! Mitt Romney's G-G Grandpa Parley P. Pratt, in an 1853 sermon as an Lds "apostle," "revealed that Mormonism is founded entirely on the practice of necromancy, and that the spiritualist movement of the Nineteenth Century, which had begun only five years earlier, actually aided the cause of the LDS church":

Per Pratt's sermon:

Who communicated with our great Prophet, and revealed through him as a medium, the ancient history of a hemisphere, and the records of the ancient dead? Moroni, who had lived upon the earth 1400 years before....Who revealed to him the plan of redemption, and of exaltation for the dead who had died without the Gospel and the keys and preparations necessary for holy and perpetual converse with Jesus Christ, and with the spirits of just men made perfect?...Those from the dead!...Shall we, then, deny the principle, the philosophy, the fact of communication between worlds? No! verily no! Editors, statesmen, philosophers, priests, and lawyers, as well as the common people, began to advocate the principle of converse with the dead, by visions, DIVINATION, clairvoyance, knocking, and writing mediums, etc., etc. This spiritual philosophy of converse with the dead, once established by the labors, toils, sufferings, and martyrdom of its modern founders, and now embraced by a large portion of the learned world, show a triumph more rapid and complete — a victory more extensive, than has ever been achieved in the same length of time in our world.

Source: GOD-MEN AND SPIRITUAL VEGETABLES: The Occult Worldview of Mormonism

That's right...Mitt Romney's ancestor promoting occultism -- talking with the dead (divination)...which is NOW also being promoted by Mormon scholars on the BYU campus this very weekend!

This is all not exactly very surprising given that the very Mormon "scriptures" say that The primary focus of the Mormon church is on serving the dead! (Doctrine & Covenants 128:15; 138:27)

For more on Pratt's 1853 'sermonizing,' we can see that Pratt claimed that the very purpose of Mormon temples included: Ye are assembled...and have laid these Corner Stones, for the express purpose that the living might hear from the dead, and that we may prepare a holy sanctuary, where "the people may seek unto their God, for the living to hear from the dead"...

Per Pratt: the "spiritual philosophy of the present age" (spiritism had been introduced in the U.S. about five years prior) "was introduced to the modern world by Joseph Smith." And, he claimed, the real reason that Smith was killed was because Smith acted as "a medium of communication with the invisible world,whereby the living could hear from the dead."

Yes, you heard it first from Mitt Romney's G-G grandfather -- 160 years ago during the emphasis on occultism within Mormon history...which also coincides with its April start date as a "church." (see 15 occultic and controversial facts you may want to know about Lds temples [Vanity] for documentation on this]

Pratt emphasized how "ONE OF THE LEADING OR FUNDAMENTAL TRUTHS OF 'MORMON' PHILOSOPHY, viz. - 'That the living may hear from the dead' commenced thru Smith acting as a "medium."

For more on this sermon, see: Journal of Discourses/Vol 2/Spiritual Communication [The OTHER World Series: Lds discourse w/dead]

2 posted on 03/15/2013 9:41:27 PM PDT by Colofornian
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To: Colofornian

That’s quite interesting. I read a book once, though I cannot vouch for its author since he makes some incredible claims, that touched on Mormonism within a larger context of Satanism. The author claimed he got sucked into the occult, and went deeply into it, and was told by his teachers to join the Free Masons and the LDS based on the “magical currents” the religion provides for those involved in it. It was good to join if your discourse with the spirit world (Satan) was hitting a slow patch. According to his occult priest, or whatever they call them, “The [LDS] was made by witches for witches.”


3 posted on 03/15/2013 9:53:54 PM PDT by Greetings_Puny_Humans
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To: All
Ever wonder about all these "ghost shows" on Friday nights, etc...Ghost Adventures Crew...Ghost Hunters...Numerous regional groups spawning YouTube content galore???

Ever wonder if these supposedly "ghostly" spirits might simply be demonic agents in weak disguises?

Some think that the weakest "level" of such demonic agents are "familiar spirits." Essentially, it seems their role is to simply act as distractors.

The prophet Isaiah wrote:

4 And thou shalt be brought down, and shalt speak out of the ground, and thy speech shall be low out of the dust, and thy voice shall be, as of one that hath a familiar spirit, out of the ground, and thy speech shall whisper out of the dust. (Isaiah 29)

Isaiah also cautioned: 19 When someone tells you to consult mediums and spiritists, who whisper and mutter, should not a people inquire of their God? Why consult the dead on behalf of the living? (Isaiah 8)

Yet the Book of Mormon references "familiar spirits" in a positive manner in 2 Nephi 26:16:

16 For those who shall be destroyed shall speak unto them out of the ground, and their speech shall be low out of the dust, and their voice shall be as one that hath a familiar spirit; for the Lord God will give unto him power, that he may whisper concerning them, even as it were out of the ground; and their speech shall whisper out of the dust.

Who are those who are destroyed? (The dead) They are speaking out of the ground amidst the dust. Cemetery style.

Only when Joseph Smith "translated" one phrase in this verse, their voice shall be as one that hath a familiar spirit, I wonder if he knew that phrase "familiar spirit" is linked every time in the Old Testament (15 times) to mediums and divination and raising ghosts (1 Samuel 28) and witchcraft?

A Mormon apologist attempted, on behalf of the BYU Maxwell Institute, to wiggle out of the obvious reading of 2 Nephi 26:16 here

4 posted on 03/15/2013 9:55:18 PM PDT by Colofornian
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To: Colofornian

I’m surprised that you posted this in the middle of the night when all good Mormons are snuggled between their sheets of purity and dreaming of their future godhood.


5 posted on 03/15/2013 9:56:03 PM PDT by doc1019 (The rabbit hole that Obama is leading us down just gets deeper and deeper.)
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To: doc1019

“I’m surprised that you posted this in the middle of the night when all good Mormons are snuggled between their sheets of purity and dreaming of their future godhood.”


L to the O to the L!!!!


6 posted on 03/15/2013 9:59:31 PM PDT by Greetings_Puny_Humans
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To: doc1019; Greetings_Puny_Humans; All
I’m surprised that you posted this in the middle of the night when all good Mormons are snuggled between their sheets of purity and dreaming of their future godhood.

(Well, a few of them were @ the BYU campus today/tonight attending this very conference held thru tomorrow...just wanted to "update" all on what kind of "spirit" had intensified there to "settle in" this very weekend!)

And allow me to remind all: Mormonism is not simply a cult, but a heavily entrenched occultic cult.

By occultic, I'm citing the original Latin meaning of the word: That which is hidden.

The Lds Church Handbook of Instructions boasts about special occultic knowledge gained in the secretive Lds temples: “...members receive important knowledge of 'things which have been kept hid from before the foundation of the world. (D&C 124:41)” The Church Handbook of Instructions, Book 2, p. 261.

I was reading thru a 1995 Lds Women's Relief Society publication and came across this eye-opener about the origin of Mormon temples:

"We often assume that because the Saints were building a temple, everybody knew what would happen there. That is not so>. Temple ordinances as we know them had not yet been revealed. In Kirtland, the temple had been used primarily as a meeting-house. The upstairs rooms housed the School of the Prophets. Even if the women had known about the temple ordinances, they would not have expected to take part in them. They were women of their time and anticipated nothing more than they were used to." Marjorie Draper Conder, p. 162 "Relief Society: So What?" Hearts Knit Together: Talks from the 1995 Women's Conference Ed. Susette Fletcher Green Dawn Hall Anderson, Dlora Hall Dalton Deseret 1996

So even the Mormons were clueless in the beginning as they built seemingly purposeless temples! (As of 1843, Lds temple endowments had still not unveiled...More of that which was hidden!)

The entire Mormon "gospel" is built upon hiding it from initiates, so that they have to "climb" higher up to gain access to hidden esoteric principles:

"On one occasion Joseph Smith made the following declaration: 'When you climb up a ladder, you must begin at the bottom, and ascend step by step, until you arrive at the top; and so it is with the principles of the Gospel--you must begin with the first, and go on until you learn all the principles of exaltation. But it will be a great while after you have passed through the veil before you will have learned them. It is not all to be comprehended in this world; it will be a great work to learn our salvation and exaltation even beyond the grave." (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 348).

7 posted on 03/15/2013 10:07:21 PM PDT by Colofornian
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To: All
Look again at this lineup these Lds "scholars" were calling for re: this weekend's conference:

From the thread source: We are seeking papers on the mystical, whether in literature and art, or the relationship of mysticism to Mormonism. Some topics that might be considered are: The psychology of mysticism Meditation and mysticism Mysticism and conversion experiences (including secular conversions) Visions and higher states of consciousness Embodiment and out-of-body experiences Divinization/deification Emptying out and Pure Conscious Events * Epistemology and the mystic Mysticism and nature Neuroscience and mysticism

***************************************

Now, note the contrast: As the Christian world focuses on either Lent or preparing for Good Friday two weeks away...and Easter to follow...the BYU campus is holding a conference seeking presentation papers on "esoteric" this and "occultic" that...not that everything under the umbrella of mysticism qualifies as "occultic"...Still, enough is listed above to see more of the "cat out of the bag" at BYU!

8 posted on 03/15/2013 10:17:31 PM PDT by Colofornian
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To: Colofornian

I’m not convinced that Mormons actually care about their theology. It is, fundamentally, a very emotionally based religion, on the “burning of the bosom” as opposed to logical arguments. It’s not that surprising to see such a heavy interest in the occult, therefore, especially when they have so much of the occult already. The signs on their “sacred” garments, the Temple rituals and symbolism. Free Masonry, from which Joseph Smith borrowed from, was itself inspired from occult symbolism. I’ve seen Masonic symbols in works by Agrippa, an ancient occultist, before the advent of the Masons.


9 posted on 03/15/2013 10:25:22 PM PDT by Greetings_Puny_Humans
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To: All
What do Mormons mean when they present themselves as 'deified' gods?

Mitt Romney is a direct descendent of Parley P. Pratt, a Mormon "apostle." Mitt Romney's ancestor taught:
"Gods, angels, and men are all of
one species,
one race,
one great family,
widely diffused among the planetary systems as colonies, kingdoms, nations, etc.
Source: The Key to the Science of Theology, 1978, p. 21

Mormon "theology" essentially says the Mormon man-gods & man-angels bounce around the universe and thereby arrive on planet earth as essentially aliens.

Lds "apostle" John Widtsoe originally published in 1915 a work called Rational Theology.

Widtsoe in that book slandered God, reducing him to be of slime and then mortal origins:
"God and man are of the same race..." (Widtsoe, p. 61)

10 posted on 03/15/2013 10:26:56 PM PDT by Colofornian
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To: Colofornian

There is a reason in the Old Testament that God warned repeatedly about seeking out Spiritists.

Islam and Mormonism were both started by men who claimed to have talked to angels. Whether either did, I don’t know. But I suspect they might have. And those angels, fallen angels, helped them spread deceptions that have trapped people into false religions.


11 posted on 03/15/2013 10:29:47 PM PDT by DannyTN
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To: Colofornian

There is a reason in the Old Testament that God warned repeatedly about seeking out Spiritists.

Islam and Mormonism were both started by men who claimed to have talked to angels. Whether either did, I don’t know. But I suspect they might have. And those angels, fallen angels, helped them spread deceptions that have trapped people into false religions.


12 posted on 03/15/2013 10:29:48 PM PDT by DannyTN
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To: Greetings_Puny_Humans; All
I’m not convinced that Mormons actually care about their theology. It is, fundamentally, a very emotionally based religion, on the “burning of the bosom” as opposed to logical arguments.

That's a good read.

Except that many Lds are quite intelligent, even if not so spiritually discerning.

And more Lds than ever can discover things on the Internet that their parents, Boy Scout leaders, and other leaders ne'er dare mention about their past.

Sometimes, then, the Holy Spirit instills a "hunger" to dig into the "origins" of what they "caught" (as well as what they were "taught"). And when they discover disconnects galore, it tends to only intensify their emotional and spiritual and intellectual struggle.

They want to be true to the truth...yet they are heavily emotionally, spiritually, financially invested, as well as "dug in" family ties-wise...

They have to know that advocates for truth are praying for their release from legalistic bondage, e'en tho it may come at a high price tag relationally.

The Living Truth, Jesus Christ, sets them free...no matter how much sentimentalism has them all "wrapped up."

13 posted on 03/15/2013 10:32:35 PM PDT by Colofornian
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To: Colofornian

“Except that many Lds are quite intelligent, even if not so spiritually discerning.”


That’s a good view of it. I have met many ex-Mormons who certainly wouldn’t fit with what I had just written, and who came out of it exactly because Mormon doctrine and history was exposed along with the Gospel message. I was thinking of my worst encounters, the kind who sit there refusing to acknowledge that, for example, Smith predicted New Jerusalem would be built by Mormons in “this generation,” but didn’t happen, along with ignoring the the obvious contradiction with the Bible which has New Jerusalem literally floating down from heaven.


14 posted on 03/15/2013 10:39:25 PM PDT by Greetings_Puny_Humans
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To: All
Deification

Listen to the words of the Twelth "prophet" of the LDS church, Spencer W. Kimball: “Brethren, 225,000 of you are here...I suppose 225,000 of you may become gods. There seems to be plenty of space out there in the universe. And the Lord has proved he knows how to do it. I think he could make, or probably have us help make, worlds for all of us, for every one of us 225,000.” The Ensign (official magazine of the LDS church), p. 80, Nov. 1975)

That all seems to ring a bell -- even down to the last line: Isaiah 14:12-15:

How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations! For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north: I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High. Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.

Kimball: ...you may become gods. Isaiah to
Lucifer: "...art thou fallen from heaven" Why? "I will be like the most High."
Kimball: "I think he could ... have us help make, worlds for all of us, for every one of us 225,000."
Isaiah to Lucifer: "For thou hast said in thine heart...I will exalt my throne above the stars of God...I will ascend above the heights of the clouds...

So when Mormons speak of "exaltation" what are they referencing?

“That exaltation which the saints of all ages have so devoutly sought is godhood itself.” -- LDS apostle Bruce R. McConkie, Mormon Doctrine, 1991 version, p. 321

15 posted on 03/15/2013 10:40:53 PM PDT by Colofornian
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To: Greetings_Puny_Humans; Colofornian

Bad typo. Correction:

“... was exposed, who also received the Gospel message” not “mormon history and doctrine was exposed along with the Gospel Message.”


16 posted on 03/15/2013 10:41:58 PM PDT by Greetings_Puny_Humans
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To: Colofornian
We also might ask what role mysticism plays in Mormonism.

Is there a mystical tradition per se in Mormonism?

HHMMmmmm.....




17 posted on 03/16/2013 4:43:39 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Colofornian
Embodiment and out-of-body experiences


And so it began...

1 Corinthians 3:11-15 (esv)

For no one can lay a foundation other than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ. Now if anyone builds on the foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw— each one's work will become manifest, for the Day will disclose it, because it will be revealed by fire, and the fire will test what sort of work each one has done. If the work that anyone has built on the foundation survives, he will receive a reward. If anyone's work is burned up, he will suffer loss, though he himself will be saved, but only as through fire.


http://www.lds.org/scriptures/pgp/js-h/1.19?lang=eng
 
 

Joseph Smith tells of his ancestry, family members, and their early abodes—An unusual excitement about religion prevails in western New York—He determines to seek wisdom as directed by James—The Father and the Son appear, and Joseph is called to his prophetic ministry. (Verses 1–20.)

1 Owing to the many reports which have been put in circulation by evil-disposed and designing persons, in relation to the rise and progress of aThe Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, all of which have been designed by the authors thereof to militate against its character as a Church and its progress in the world—I have been induced to write this history, to disabuse the public mind, and put all inquirers after truth in possession of the bfacts, as they have transpired, in relation both to myself and the Church, so far as I have such facts in my possession.

2 In this history I shall present the various events in relation to this Church, in truth and righteousness, as they have transpired, or as they at present exist, being now [1838] the aeighth byear since the organization of the said Church.

3 aI was born in the year of our Lord one thousand eight hundred and five, on the twenty-third day of December, in the town of Sharon, Windsor county, State of Vermont. … My father, bJoseph Smith, Sen., left the State of Vermont, and moved to Palmyra, Ontario (now Wayne) county, in the State of New York, when I was in my tenth year, or thereabouts. In about four years after my father’s arrival in Palmyra, he moved with his family into Manchester in the same county of Ontario—

4 His family consisting of eleven souls, namely, my father, Joseph Smith; my amother, Lucy Smith (whose name, previous to her marriage, was Mack, daughter of Solomon Mack); my brothers, bAlvin (who died November 19th, 1823, in the 26th year of his age), cHyrum, myself, dSamuel Harrison, William, Don Carlos; and my sisters, Sophronia, Catherine, and Lucy.

5 Some time in the second year after our removal to Manchester, there was in the place where we lived an unusual excitement on the subject of religion. It commenced with the Methodists, but soon became general among all the sects in that region of country. Indeed, the whole district of country seemed affected by it, and great multitudes united themselves to the different religious parties, which created no small stir and division amongst the people, some crying, a“Lo, here!” and others, “Lo, there!” Some were contending for the Methodist faith, some for the Presbyterian, and some for the Baptist.

6 For, notwithstanding the great alove which the converts to these different faiths expressed at the time of their conversion, and the great zeal manifested by the respective clergy, who were active in getting up and promoting this extraordinary scene of religious feeling, in order to have everybody converted, as they were pleased to call it, let them join what sect they pleased; yet when the converts began to file off, some to one party and some to another, it was seen that the seemingly good feelings of both the priests and the converts were more bpretended than real; for a scene of great confusion and bad feeling ensued—priest contending against priest, and convert against convert; so that all their good feelings one for another, if they ever had any, were entirely lost in a strife of words and a contest about opinions.

7 I was at this time in my fifteenth year. My father’s family was proselyted to the Presbyterian faith, and four of them joined that church, namely, my mother, Lucy; my brothers Hyrum and Samuel Harrison; and my sister Sophronia.

8 During this time of great excitement my mind was called up to serious reflection and great uneasiness; but though my feelings were deep and often poignant, still I kept myself aloof from all these parties, though I attended their several meetings as often as occasion would permit. In process of time my mind became somewhat partial to the Methodist sect, and I felt some desire to be united with them; but so great were the confusion and astrife among the different denominations, that it was impossible for a person young as I was, and so unacquainted with men and things, to come to any certain conclusion who was bright and who was wrong.

9 My mind at times was greatly excited, the cry and tumult were so great and incessant. The Presbyterians were most decided against the Baptists and Methodists, and used all the powers of both reason and sophistry to prove their errors, or, at least, to make the people think they were in error. On the other hand, the Baptists and Methodists in their turn were equally zealous in endeavoring to establish their own tenets and disprove all others.

10 In the midst of this war of words and tumult of opinions, I often said to myself: What is to be done? Who of all these parties are right; or, are they all wrong together? If any one of them be aright, which is it, and how shall I know it?

11 While I was laboring under the extreme difficulties caused by the contests of these parties of religionists, I was one day reading the aEpistle of James, first chapter and fifth verse, which reads: If any of you lack bwisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him.

12 Never did any passage of ascripture come with more power to the heart of man than this did at this time to mine. It seemed to enter with great force into every feeling of my heart. I reflected on it again and again, knowing that if any person needed bwisdom from God, I did; for how to act I did not know, and unless I could get more wisdom than I then had, I would never know; for the teachers of religion of the different sects cunderstood the same passages of scripture so differently as to destroy all confidence in settling the question by an appeal to the Bible.

13 At length I came to the conclusion that I must either remain in adarkness and confusion, or else I must do as James directs, that is, ask of God. I at length came to the determination to “ask of God,” concluding that if he gave wisdom to them that lacked wisdom, and would bgive liberally, and not upbraid, I might venture.

14 So, in accordance with this, my determination to ask of God, I retired to the awoods to make the attempt. It was on the morning of a bbeautiful, clear day, early in the spring of eighteen hundred and twenty. It was the first time in my life that I had made such an attempt, for amidst all my anxieties I had never as yet made the attempt to cpray dvocally.

15 After I had retired to the place where I had previously designed to go, having looked around me, and finding myself alone, I kneeled down and began to offer up the desires of my heart to God. I had scarcely done so, when immediately I was aseized upon by some power which entirely overcame me, and had such an astonishing influence over me as to bind my tongue so that I could not speak. Thick bdarkness gathered around me, and it seemed to me for a time as if I were doomed to sudden destruction.

16 But, exerting all my powers to acall upon God to deliver me out of the power of this enemy which had seized upon me, and at the very moment when I was ready to sink into bdespair and abandon myself to destruction—not to an imaginary ruin, but to the power of some actual being from the unseen world, who had such marvelous power as I had never before felt in any being—just at this moment of great alarm, I saw a pillar of clight exactly over my head, above the brightness of the dsun, which descended gradually until it fell upon me.

17 It no sooner appeared than I found myself adelivered from the enemy which held me bound. When the light rested upon me I bsaw two cPersonages, whose brightness and dglory defy all description, estanding above me in the air. One of them spake unto me, calling me by name and said, pointing to the other—This is My fBeloved gSon. Hear Him!

18 My object in going to ainquire of the Lord was to know which of all the sects was right, that I might know which to join. No sooner, therefore, did I get possession of myself, so as to be able to speak, than I asked the Personages who stood above me in the light, which of all the sects was right (for at this time it had never entered into my heart that all were wrong)—and which I should join.

19 I was answered that I must join none of them, for they were all awrong; and the Personage who addressed me said that all their creeds were an abomination in his sight; that those bprofessors were all ccorrupt; that: “they ddraw near to me with their lips, but their ehearts are far from me, they teach for doctrines the fcommandments of men, having a form of godliness, but they deny the gpower thereof.”

20 He again forbade me to join with any of them; and many other things did he say unto me, which I cannot write at this time. When I came to myself again, I found myself alying on my back, looking up into heaven. When the light had departed, I had no strength; but soon recovering in some degree, I went home. And as I leaned up to the fireplace, bmother inquired what the matter was. I replied, “Never mind, all is well—I am well enough off.” I then said to my mother, “I have learned for myself that Presbyterianism is not true.” It seems as though the cadversary was aware, at a very early period of my life, that I was destined to prove a disturber and an annoyer of his kingdom; else why should the powers of darkness combine against me? Why the dopposition and persecution that arose against me, almost in my infancy?

18 posted on 03/16/2013 4:57:43 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Colofornian
1 Owing to the many reports which have been put in circulation by evil-disposed and designing persons...

SEE!

Even at the begining, Joseph was a Prophet!!

Predicting the despised and venomous Flying Inmen of FR!!!

--MormonDude(When would be a good time for a couple of our well-trained young folks to visit you, at your lovely home, with your loving family at your side; and tt teach you all the Truth that is MormonISM?)

19 posted on 03/16/2013 5:00:39 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Colofornian
By occultic, I'm citing the original Latin meaning of the word: That which is hidden.

You mean like the sources of the Temple Rituals?

They canNOT be found in anything that MORMONism calls scripture; so just WHERE did they come from?

20 posted on 03/16/2013 5:03:00 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Greetings_Puny_Humans; Sentinal; reaganaut; Godzilla; Utah Binger
I’m not convinced that Mormons actually care about their theology.

Once they care; they become like Sentinal and others on FR: EX-mormons!

21 posted on 03/16/2013 5:04:49 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: DannyTN
And those angels, fallen angels, helped them spread deceptions that have trapped people into false religions.

Ya think???




With a Stepford Wife stare; MORMONs will claim the "Personages standing in the Light" were NOT demonic beings!

Galatians 1:7-10
7. Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.
8. But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
9. As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.
 
 
2 Corinthians 11:14-15
14. And no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light.
15. It is not surprising, then, if his servants masquerade as servants of righteousness. Their end will be what their actions deserve.
 
Revelation 13:13-15
13. And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,
14. And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.
 
http://scriptures.lds.org/en/js_h/1/19#19
17 It no sooner appeared than I found myself delivered from the enemy which held me bound. When the light rested upon me I saw two Personages, whose brightness and glory defy all description, standing above me in the air. One of them spake unto me, calling me by name and said, pointing to the other—This is My Beloved Son. Hear Him!
18 My object in going to inquire of the Lord was to know which of all the sects was right, that I might know which to join. No sooner, therefore, did I get possession of myself, so as to be able to speak, than I asked the Personages who stood above me in the light, which of all the sects was right (for at this time it had never entered into my heart that all were wrong)—and which I should join.
19 I was answered that I must join none of them, for they were all wrong; and the Personage who addressed me said that all their creeds were an abomination in his sight; that those professors were all corrupt; that: “they draw near to me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me, they teach for doctrines the commandments of men, having a form of godliness, but they deny the power thereof.”
20 He again forbade me to join with any of them; and many other things did he say unto me, which I cannot write at this time. When I came to myself again, I found myself lying on my back, looking up into heaven. When the light had departed, I had no strength; but soon recovering in some degree, I went home. And as I leaned up to the fireplace, mother inquired what the matter was. I replied, “Never mind, all is well—I am well enough off.” I then said to my mother, “I have learned for myself that Presbyterianism is not true.”
 
It appears that EXPERIENCES can be deceiving...
 
If one believes the Bible is correct, then, by that Standard, Mormonism fails the test.
If, however, you are convinced that the Bible is either in error, been corrupted or mis-interpreted, then you are free to believe whatever you wish.

22 posted on 03/16/2013 5:09:35 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Elsie

I feel sorry for the low information youth that make this mistake:

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/865575893/Two-Utah-Jazz-dancers-accept-Mormon-mission-calls.html


23 posted on 03/16/2013 5:26:54 AM PDT by Utah Binger (Southern Utah Mood is Fine Art)
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To: Elsie

24 posted on 03/16/2013 5:30:04 AM PDT by Utah Binger (Southern Utah Mood is Fine Art)
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To: Utah Binger

They getting sent to Central Indiana?


25 posted on 03/16/2013 8:19:22 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Utah Binger
A comment from Anderson at the Deseret News Article

“It would be so selfish of me to just sit here and go through my life and not share the knowledge I have that there is a God, that he loves you, and that his son came and atoned for our sins," she said. "Most important for me is the knowledge we have that families can be together forever. I have this feeling of despair for people who think that death is an end; to me, that would fill one’s life with anxiety and depression, and so I want to share the feeling of peace that the gospel brings to me.”

Christians do NOT believe that "death is an end"...this is just one of the lies taught by mormonism in the claim that the sect is "the one and only true church on the face of the earth." "A revelation given to the Prophet Joseph Smith in 1831, soon after the organization of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, spoke of those who had been given “power to lay the foundation of this church.” The Lord then referred to the Church as “the only true and living church upon the face of the whole earth, with which I, the Lord, am well pleased” (D&C 1:30).

The brainwashing has certainly been effective with these mormon youngsters. They are going into the world spreading this lie.

26 posted on 03/16/2013 8:56:32 AM PDT by greyfoxx39 (Thanks Mitt.)
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To: greyfoxx39
"Most important for me is the knowledge we have that families can be together forever.

How does the FACT that MOST mormon 'families' will NOT be together forever grab you?

Only about 15% or so of all MORMONs have a Temple Recommend® - the little card that vaults one into the HIGHEST level of MORMONism's heaven: where GOD will dwell.

27 posted on 03/16/2013 11:08:05 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: greyfoxx39
The brainwashing has certainly been effective with these mormon youngsters. They are going into the world spreading this lie.


 
 
Professor Robert Millet        teaching at the Mission Prep Club in 2004  http://newsnet.byu.edu/video/18773/  <-- Complete and uneditted

 
 
Timeline...    Subject...
 
0:59           "Anti-Mormons..."
1:16           "ATTACK the faith you have..."
2:02           "We really aren't obligated to answer everyone's questions..."
3:57           "You already know MORE about God and Christ and the plan of salvation than any who would ATTACK you."


28 posted on 03/16/2013 11:09:13 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: greyfoxx39
"We were so excited to find out that the other wanted to go that we literally started jumping up and down for joy, hugging each other with tears running down our cheeks,” she said.
 
They both said they enjoy being part of the basketball games.
 
They can sure set THAT aside for a while!!!   (56-59)


The Rules

  1. Learn and obey all missionary rules.
  2. Keep your thoughts, words, and actions in harmony with the gospel message.
  3. Read only books, magazines, and other material authorized by the Church.
  4. Don't debate or argue.
  5. Center your mind on your mission.
  6. Dress conservatively. Elders: white shirts, conservative ties, and business suits. Sisters: conservative colors and skirts that cover your knees. No floor-length skirts or dresses.
  7. Cut your hair regularly.
  8. Keep your hair clean and neatly combed at all times in the approved style.
  9. Be neat and clean.
  10. Bathe frequently.
  11. Use deodorant.
  12. Polish your shoes.
  13. Iron your shirt and business suit.
  14. Arise at 6:30 A.M.
  15. Study for 2 hours every morning.
  16. Proselytize for 10 hours between 9:30 A.M. and 9:30 P.M.
  17. Turn off your lights at 10:30 P.M.
  18. Exercise regularly.
  19. Write in your journal regularly.
  20. Follow the "Missionary Gospel Study Program" (31157) for your personal study.
  21. Regularly study the Missionary Guide and the Discussions.
  22. Attend Sunday priesthood or Relief Society meetings, Sunday School, and sacrament meeting.
  23. Attend the general session of Stake Conference.
  24. Attend general conference broadcasts if available.
  25. Avoid all other church meetings unless you have a special assignment or are brining an investigator.
  26. Proselytize as much as possible on weekends and holidays because this is when you'll find people home.
  27. End your preparation day at 6:00 P.M. and proselytize from 6:00 P.M. to 9:30 P.M.
  28. Wear your missionary uniform in public on preparation day while not engaged in recreational activities.
  29. Arise at 6:30 on preparation day and study for 2 hours from the approved books.
  30. Take care of your physical preparation for the week on preparation day: wash your clothes, clean your apartment, wash your car, get your haircut, and shop for groceries.
  31. Write to your parents every week on preparation day.
  32. Write less frequently to your siblings, friends, and acquaintances.
  33. Don't communicate with any friends or acquaintances that are within or close to your mission boundaries, except as a part of official mission business.
  34. Plan safe, wholesome, and uplifting activities for preparation day.
  35. Stay with your companion during all activities.
  36. Do not go on road trips.
  37. Do not leave your assigned area without permission
  38. Do not watch television.
  39. Do not view unauthorized videocassettes.
  40. Do not listen to the radio.
  41. Do not listen to unauthorized audiocassettes or CD’s.
  42. Do not participate in musical groups.
  43. Do not participate in athletic teams.
  44. Do not sponsor athletic teams.
  45. Do not engage in contact sports.
  46. Do not engage in water sports.
  47. Do not engage in winter sports.
  48. Do not engage in motorcycling.
  49. Do not engage in horseback riding.
  50. Do not engage in mountain climbing.
  51. Do not embark on a private boat.
  52. Do not embark in a private airplane.
  53. Do not handle firearms.
  54. Do not handle explosives.
  55. Do not swim.
  56. Do not play full court basketball.
  57. Do not play basketball in leagues.
  58. Do not play basketball in tournaments.
  59. You may play half-court basketball.
  60. Never be alone.
  61. Seek advice from your mission president if your companion is "having difficulties".
  62. Be loyal to your companion.
  63. Ask your mission president for help if your companion doesn’t obey the rules.
  64. Pray with your companion every day.
  65. Study with your companion every day.
  66. Plan your work with your companion every day.
  67. Take time at least once a week for companionship inventory.
  68. Seek to be one in spirit and purpose and help each other succeed.
  69. Always address your companion as Elder or Sister.
  70. Sleep in the same bedroom as your companion.
  71. Do not sleep in the same bed as your companion.
  72. Do not arise before your companion.
  73. Do not retire after your companion. (apparently, being together is more important than getting the correct amount of sleep that your unique body requires.)
  74. Frequently study with your companion the Missionary Guide section on companions.
  75. Never be alone with anyone of the opposite sex.
  76. Never associate inappropriately with anyone of the opposite sex (conversely, they don't mention whether or not it is against the rules to associate inappropriately with anyone of the same sex).
  77. Do not flirt.
  78. Do not date.
  79. Do not communicate via phone or letter with anyone of the opposite sex living within or near mission boundaries.
  80. Do not visit a single or divorced person of the opposite sex unless accompanied by a couple or another adult member of your sex.
  81. Try to teach single investigators in a member’s home or have missionaries of the same sex teach them.
  82. Always follow the above rules, even if the situation seems harmless.
  83. Use the commitment pattern to get referrals from members.
  84. Keep your dinner visits with member briefs and during the customary dinner hour in the area.
  85. Remember to say thank you to those who feed you.
  86. Visit members and nonmembers only at appropriate times.
  87. Do not counsel or give medical treatment.
  88. Do not stay in the homes of people when they are on vacation.
  89. Only write letters to family members and friends at home.
  90. Do not telephone parents
  91. Do not telephone relatives.
  92. Do not telephone friends.
  93. Do not telephone girlfriends.
  94. Contact your mission president in case of an emergency.
  95. Take problems and questions to your mission president.
  96. Do not write to the President of the Church or to other General Authorities. Letters from missionaries to General Authorities are referred back to the mission president
  97. Respect the customs, traditions, and property of the people who you are trying to convert.
  98. Obey all mission rules.
  99. Obey the laws of the land.
  100. Do not get involved in politics.
  101. Do not get involved in commercial activities.
  102. Do not give any information about the area.
  103. Respect the customs and cultures of those who you are trying to convert to your own customs and culture.
  104. Respect the beliefs, practices, and sites of other religions.
  105. Do not say or write anything bad about the political and cultural circumstances where you serve.
  106. Do not become involved in adoption proceedings.
  107. Do not suggest or encourage emigration. (This rule is a bit ironic, given the now-defunct doctrine of gathering the believers to Zion)
  108. Be courteous.
  109. Provide community service.
  110. Do not provide community service that isn’t approved by your mission president.
  111. Do not provide more than 4 hours a week of community service.
  112. Do not provide community service during the evening, weekend or holidays—those are peek proselytizing times.
  113. Your mission president must approve your housing.
  114. Keep your housing unit clean.
  115. Do not live with single or divorced people of the opposite sex.
  116. Do not live where the spouse is frequently absent.
  117. Your living unit must have a private bath and entrance.
  118. You may occasionally fast for a special reason, but generally the monthly fast is sufficient.
  119. Do not fast longer than 24 hours at a time.
  120. Do not ask friends, relatives, and members to join in special fasts for investigators.
  121. Maintain your health.
  122. Eat a healthy diet.
  123. Sleep from 10:30 to 6:30.
  124. Follow the approved exercise program.
  125. Keep your body, clothes, dishes, linens, towels and housing unit clean.
  126. Dispose of your garbage properly and promptly.
  127. Follow the safety rules for all of your stuff.
  128. Seek medical care if you are in an accident or become sick.
  129. Be immunized.
  130. Spend your money only on things relating to your mission.
  131. Budget your money carefully.
  132. Keep a record of what you spend.
  133. Do not spend more than your companion.
  134. Do not loan money.
  135. Do not borrow money.
  136. Keep a reserve fund of $50 to $100 at all times for transfers.
  137. Pay your bills before leaving an area.
  138. Pay cash for all resale literature and supplies ordered from the mission office.
  139. Do not waste money on souvenirs.
  140. Do not waste money on unnecessary items.
  141. Be a frugal photographer.
  142. Do not accumulate excess baggage.
  143. Obey custom laws and regulations.
  144. Pay fast offerings each fast Sunday to the bishop or branch president where you serve.
  145. Pay tithing on outside sources of income (i.e. interest) to your home bishop or branch president.
  146. Evaluate your funds a few months before the end of your mission. If you have more than you need, ask that less be sent so that you can return home without excess money.
  147. Do not drive without a license.
  148. Drive only Church-owned vehicles.
  149. Do not drive members’ cars.
  150. Do not drive nonmembers’ cars.
  151. Do not give rides to members or investigators in Church-owned cars.
  152. Use cars only on approved mission business.
  153. Use cars only within the assigned geographical area.
  154. Be conscious of safety at all times.
  155. Drive defensively.
  156. Wear your seat belt.
  157. Pray for the Lord’s protection while driving.
  158. If your companion is driving, assist him or her.
  159. Do not tamper with the vehicle’s odometer.
  160. Know bicycle safety rules.
  161. Use extreme caution on your bicycle.
  162. Do not ride your bicycle after dark.
  163. Do not ride your bicycle in heavy traffic.
  164. Do not ride your bicycle in adverse weather conditions.
  165. Go directly to your new area when transferred.
  166. Find your new companion without delay when transferred.
  167. Have a maximum of two suitcases and a briefcase.

29 posted on 03/16/2013 11:15:24 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Colofornian

Mormon Scholars...

LOL, I always love seeing those terms together...


30 posted on 03/16/2013 11:27:01 AM PDT by ejonesie22 (8/30/10, the day Truth won.)
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To: Greetings_Puny_Humans

Oh, yes, Mormons have horns - especially the Mormon Tabernacle Choir members.

The anti-MormonISM crowd on this site never miss an opportunity to condemn Mormons to hell. It’s Heaven or Hell, right? So according to their logic, all of us Mormons are going straight to hell - not to mention every other person who ever lived who doesn’t/didn’t believe exactly as they (the holier-than-thou crowd) believe.

Can’t you guys ever give it a rest? So much garbage.


31 posted on 03/16/2013 3:33:48 PM PDT by District13 (Obama scares me)
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To: District13

Oh, yes, Mormons have horns - especially the Mormon Tabernacle Choir members.

The anti-MormonISM crowd on this site never miss an opportunity to condemn Mormons to hell. It’s Heaven or Hell, right? So according to their logic, all of us Mormons are going straight to hell - not to mention every other person who ever lived who doesn’t/didn’t believe exactly as they (the holier-than-thou crowd) believe.

Can’t you guys ever give it a rest? So much garbage.”


Indeed, those who do not confess Jesus Christ are condemned already.

Joh_3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

Joh_3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

Damnation is real, permanent, and filled with perpetual suffering and torment.

Mar 9:43-44 And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched: (44) Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.

Mat 25:46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

Rev_14:11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.

Therefore, the Mormon denial of the biblical hell, is nothing less than a dangerous falsehood.

Furthermore, those who preach a different Gospel than what was delivered to the Apostles are accursed:

Gal 1:7-9 Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ. (8) But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. (9) As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

Repent, or else, give the garbage a rest.


32 posted on 03/16/2013 3:43:24 PM PDT by Greetings_Puny_Humans
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To: District13; Greetings_Puny_Humans; All
So according to their logic, all of us Mormons are going straight to hell - not to mention every other person who ever lived who doesn’t/didn’t believe exactly as they (the holier-than-thou crowd) believe.

(He said, holier-than-thou-like)

(Sorry, but the Lord hasn't assigned us hell roll call duty...Besides, some Mormons make it out of LegalisticVille)

33 posted on 03/16/2013 5:08:15 PM PDT by Colofornian
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To: District13
The anti-MormonISM crowd on this site never miss an opportunity to condemn Mormons to hell.

Oh NO!

You are confused!!

The #2 Living Prophet: Brigham Young is the one to do THAT!!!




"Now if any of you will deny the plurality of wives, and continue to do so, I promise that you will be damned;

and I will go still further and say, take this revelation, or any other revelation that the Lord has given,

and deny it in your feelings, and I promise that you will be damned.

Brigham Young - JoD 3:266 (July 14, 1855)

34 posted on 03/16/2013 5:22:30 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: District13
Can’t you guys ever give it a rest? So much garbage.

Ma'am; why do you call our holy book quotes GARBAGE?

And as for resting?

We are young and just FULL of energy!

35 posted on 03/16/2013 5:24:25 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: District13
The anti-MormonISM crowd on this site never miss an opportunity to condemn Mormons to hell.

You are confused!

It is the leadership of MORMONism, Inc. that is doing all the 'condemning'!!

What do you think of THESE quotes?

Do you agree with or repudiate them?



Questions put to Joseph Smith: "'Do you believe the Bible?' [Smith:]'If we do, we are the only people under heaven that does, for there are none of the religious sects of the day that do'. When asked 'Will everybody be damned, but Mormons'? [Smith replied] 'Yes, and a great portion of them, unless they repent, and work righteousness." (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 119).
Joseph Smith: "for the teachers of religion of the different sects understood the same passages of scripture so differently as to destroy all confidence in settling the question by an appeal to the Bible" (from Pearl of Great Price 1:12). "What is it that inspires professors of Christianity generally with a hope of salvation? It is that smooth, sophisticated influence of the devil, by which he deceives the whole world" (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p.270).
 
 
 
Brigham Young stated this repeatedly: "When the light came to me I saw that all the so-called Christian world was grovelling in darkness" (Journal of Discourses 5:73); "The Christian world, so-called, are heathens as to the knowledge of the salvation of God" (Journal of Discourses 8:171); "With a regard to true theology, a more ignorant people never lived than the present so-called Christian world" (Journal of Discourses 8:199); "And who is there that acknowledges [God's] hand? ...You may wander east, west, north, and south, and you cannot find it in any church or government on the earth, except the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints" (Journal of Discourses , vol. 6, p.24); "Should you ask why we differ from other Christians, as they are called, it is simply because they are not Christians as the New Testament defines Christianity" (Journal of Discourses 10:230).
 
 
 
Orson Pratt proclaimed: "Both Catholics and Protestants are nothing less than the 'whore of Babylon' whom the Lord denounces by the mouth of John the Revelator as having corrupted all the earth by their fornications and wickedness. Any person who shall be so corrupt as to receive a holy ordinance of the Gospel from the ministers of any of these apostate churches will be sent down to hell with them, unless they repent" (The Seer, p. 255).
 
 
 
Orson Pratt also said: "This great apostasy commenced about the close of the first century of the Christian era, and it has been waxing worse and worse from then until now" (Journal of Discourses
, vol.18, p.44) and: "But as there has been no Christian Church on the earth for a great many centuries past, until the present century, the people have lost sight of the pattern that God has given according to which the Christian Church should be established, and they have denominated a great variety of people Christian Churches, because they profess to be ...But there has been a long apostasy, during which the nations have been cursed with apostate churches in great abundance" (Journal of Discourses , 18:172).
 
 
President John Taylor stated: "Christianity...is a perfect pack of nonsense...the devil could not invent a better engine to spread his work than the Christianity of the nineteenth century." (Journal of Discourses , vol. 6, p.167); "Where shall we look for the true order or authority of God? It cannot be found in any nation of Christendom." (Journal of Discourses , 10:127).
 
 
 
James Talmage said: "A self-suggesting interpretation of history indicates that there has been a great departure from the way of salvation as laid down by the Savior, a universal apostasy from the Church of Christ". (A Study of the Articles of Faith, p.182).
 
 
 
President Joseph Fielding Smith said: "Doctrines were corrupted, authority lost, and a false order of religion took the place of the gospel of Jesus Christ, just as it had been the case in former dispensations, and the people were left in spiritual darkness." (Doctrines of Salvation, p.266). "For hundreds of years the world was wrapped in a veil of spiritual darkness, until there was not one fundamental truth belonging to the place of salvation ...Joseph Smith declared that in the year 1820 the Lord revealed to him that all the 'Christian' churches were in error, teaching for commandments the doctrines of men" (Doctrines of Salvation, vol. 3, p.282).
 
 
 
More recent statements by apostle Bruce McConkie are also very clear: "Apostasy was universal...And this darkness still prevails except among those who have come to a knowledge of the restored gospel" (Doctrines of Salvation, vol 3, p.265); "Thus the signs of the times include the prevailing apostate darkness in the sects of Christendom and in the religious world in general" (The Millennial Messiah, p.403); "a perverted Christianity holds sway among the so-called Christians of apostate Christendom" (Mormon Doctrine, p.132); "virtually all the millions of apostate Christendom have abased themselves before the mythical throne of a mythical Christ whom they vainly suppose to be a spirit essence who is incorporeal uncreated, immaterial and three-in-one with the Father and Holy Spirit" (Mormon Doctrine, p.269); "Gnosticism is one of the great pagan philosophies which antedated Christ and the Christian Era and which was later commingled with pure Christianity to form the apostate religion that has prevailed in the world since the early days of that era." (Mormon Doctrine, p.316).
 
 
 
President George Q. Cannon said: "After the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints was organized, there were only two churches upon the earth. They were known respectively as the Church of the Lamb of God and Babylon. The various organizations which are called churches throughout Christendom, though differing in their creeds and organizations, have one common origin. They all belong to Babylon" (Gospel Truth, p.324).
 
 
President Wilford Woodruff stated: "the Gospel of modern Christendom shuts up the Lord, and stops all communication with Him. I want nothing to do with such a Gospel, I would rather prefer the Gospel of the dark ages, so called" (Journal of Discourses , vol. 2, p.196).

36 posted on 03/16/2013 5:27:59 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: District13; Saundra Duffy; Elsie; Greetings_Puny_Humans; All
The anti-MormonISM crowd on this site never miss an opportunity to condemn Mormons to hell. It’s Heaven or Hell, right? So according to their logic, all of us Mormons are going straight to hell - not to mention every other person who ever lived who doesn’t/didn’t believe exactly as they (the holier-than-thou crowd) believe.

What are you - a Mormon reincarnation of Saundra Duffy?

This used to be Saundra's constant "line" back in the latter part of 2011...tho when challenged as to specifics, she seemed to be at a loss for who had forecasted she would wind up in hell.

Here's how I finally responded to this Mormon tactic:

ALL: Of all of Saundra's posting tactics, this is one of her most common. She will mention in some fashion how a poster is condemning her and other Mormons to hell.

For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. 18Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God's one and only Son…36Whoever believes in the Son HAS eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God's wrath remains on him." (John 3:17-18, 36)

Did you see that phrase ”stands condemned already” in John 3:18?

...Now tell me you’re different from the other Mormons I’ve encountered – the ones I’ve talked with who assume nobody except some rare apostates are under condemnation. Go, ahead, tell me you’re different than they are. Don’t you understand that according to John 3:18, people who don’t believe in the ”one and ONLY Son” (which excludes those who believe that Jesus is one “elder brother Son among MANY”) ”stand condemned already?” And, of course, that condemnation includes God’s existing wrath remaining on him/her.

(If you don’t like what Jesus said in John 3:18,36 take it up with Jesus!)

No matter what, Sandy, God’s wrath and condemnation is unleashed upon the sin of us all. Either 
(a) Jesus’ stint on the cross absorbs it on our behalf; or 
(b) For those who want to work their way to high degrees of glory, or slouch their away along – doesn’t matter – the sin will remain in their own lap. What a sorry thought that is has it goes through my mind.

[To which I was told: There you go again . . . condemning people to damnation and hell…]

As I said above, I just cited John 3:36. How would that be any different than a Mormon citing Mosiah 2:38-39; 3:19 or Alma 42:16 from the Book of Mormon?

“For the natural man is an enemy to God, and has been from the fall of Adam, and will be, forever and ever, unless he yields to the enticings of the Holy Spirit, and putteth off the natural man and becometh a saint through the atonement of Christ the Lord…” Mosiah 3:19 -- which, BTW, was supposedly written in B.C. 124 … how convenient for such explicit words such as the Greek word, Christ, and the word Tyndale made up late in the 13th century – “atonement” to show up on a gold plate in B.C. 124 before there was a tremendous amount of discussion about “enticings of the Holy Spirit,” “saints,” and “atonement” and “Christ the Lord.”

“Therefore if that man repenteth not, and remaineth and dieth an enemy to God, and the demands of divine justice do awaken his immortal soul to a lively sense of his own guilt, which doth cause him to shrink from the presence of the Lord, and doth fill his breast with guilt and pain, and anguish, which is like an unquenchable fire, whose flame ascendeth up forever and ever. And now I say unto you, that mercy hath no claim on that man; therefore his final doom is to endure a never-ending torment.”(Mosiah 2:38-39)

”Now, repentance could not come unto men except there were a punishment, which also was eternal as the life of the soul should be…” (Alma 42:16, Book of Mormon)

“…the fall had brought upon all mankind a spiritual death as well as a temporal, that is, they were cut off from the presence of the Lord…” (Alma 42:9, Book of Mormon)

“For the natural man is an enemy to God, and has been from the fall of Adam, and will be, forever and ever, unless he yields to the enticings of the Holy Spirit, and putteth off the natural man and becometh a saint through the atonement of Christ the Lord…” Mosiah 3:19

Cont'd next post... 

37 posted on 03/16/2013 6:32:56 PM PDT by Colofornian
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To: District13; Saundra Duffy; Elsie; Greetings_Puny_Humans; All
The anti-MormonISM crowd on this site never miss an opportunity to condemn Mormons to hell. It’s Heaven or Hell, right? So according to their logic, all of us Mormons are going straight to hell - not to mention every other person who ever lived who doesn’t/didn’t believe exactly as they (the holier-than-thou crowd) believe.

May I suggest to you, ALL, a way you can respond to District13 -- or any Mormon -- each and every time she/they mention[s] something along these lines?

Let's say you are talking with a Mormon and she/he says:

JOE MORMON: "Why do you condemn me to hell?"
N. CHRISTIAN: "You believe in three degrees of glory, do you not?"
JOE MORMON: "You know I do."
N. CHRISTIAN: "And don't you therefore believe, that Jesus can reside in two of these three glories?"
JOE MORMON: "You know I do."
N. CHRISTIAN: "And how many of these glories does Heavenly Father reside in?"
JOE MORMON: "One. The celestial one."
N. CHRISTIAN: "Do Christians get to reside there?"
JOE MORMON. "No. Only members of the church of the Firstborn do."
N. CHRISTIAN: "And Christian churches. Do Mormon leaders regard them as part of the 'church of the firstborn?'"
JOE MORMON: "Uh, no. 'Fraid not. But, you'll still be saved. Just a different degree of glory."
N. CHRISTIAN: "And so you're telling me that 'salvation' in your eyes includes NEVER being reconciled to Heavenly Father? NEVER, EVER able to live in His Presence again = 'salvation'...equals 'heaven' to you??? REALLY???"
JOE MORMON (now looking for a place to hide, in a stumble-mumble): "Uh...Uh...Uh..."
N. CHRISTIAN: "Let me go 'on the record' here to make myself 'perfectly clear': Whatever you regard as part of the afterlife that excludes the Presence of Heavenly Father, you can take that Mormon ghettoized false-gospel of yours and you can shove it to hell where it belongs! If you consider a Heavenly Fatherless 'heaven' to be 'heaven,' I don't want it! If you consider a Heavenly Fatherless 'heaven' to be FUTURE ETERNAL 'salvation,' then that ain't it!"
N. CHRISTIAN (continuing): "You, Joe Mormon! You of all people! One who believes that EACH of us was spirit-born to Heavenly Father in the pre-existence. And who desires for us to be reconciled to Him. You, who puts such emphasis on the divine family! You actually deem it to be a 'family reunion' when the 'family reunion' excludes the ULTIMATE PATRIARCH of the Family! Wow! How offensive can your false gospel get???!!!" 

38 posted on 03/16/2013 6:35:50 PM PDT by Colofornian
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To: Colofornian

DAng, “C”!

For a hateful BIGOT, you make some good sense there.

I never really listened to you before; ‘cause mah busom was warm. HOT even!!!

—MormonDude(But this morning it’s kinda cool. Happy Saint PAtrick’s day to you all.)


39 posted on 03/17/2013 3:54:45 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Colofornian
HEAVEN-The Mormon church teaches there are three levels of heaven (three "degrees of glory"):

HELL: A place of torment from which the worst of sinners are resurrected (if they repent) into the Telestial kingdom; only a limited number remain in hell forever, - the devil and the demons and apostates who consciously reject and work against Mormonism.

40 posted on 03/17/2013 3:57:35 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Colofornian
...and for Mormons who have not met the requirements of the Church.
41 posted on 03/17/2013 3:58:10 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Elsie

and this will be MOST of them!


42 posted on 03/17/2013 4:27:49 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Elsie
In reading an article about Scientology, I noticed this: "The rule, which the Church denies having, allegedly bans all Scientologists from any contact with ex-members who criticize the organization."

In reading the questions asked before a mormon can receive a temple recommend, I noticed THIS:

Temple Recommend question #7: "Do you support, affiliate with, or agree with any group or individual whose teachings or practices are contrary to or oppose those accepted by the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints?

This is an official command for mormon to shun anyone whose "teachings or practices are contrary to or oppose those accepted" by the mormon church.

I wonder how that command fits with sending out 100,000 mormon missionaries to all those who disbelieve mormon dogma? Mishies have to "affiliate" with these sinners!

43 posted on 03/17/2013 8:05:40 AM PDT by greyfoxx39 (Thanks Mitt.)
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To: Elsie
"Celestial - for Mormons who have kept ALL of the laws and ordinances of their church. What will the celestial heaven (kingdom) supposedly be like for a good Mormon? He will be a god, he will rule over a planet with his wives and spirit children."

Plus the new mormonic gods drink that tea all the time... I think I have a picture...


44 posted on 03/17/2013 8:19:55 AM PDT by aMorePerfectUnion (Gone rogue, gone Galt, gone international, gone independent. Gone.)
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To: Elsie
Elsie,

I also have a picture of one of the goddess wives who breed non-stop in the heavens as the mormonic horndog gods come out to rut...


45 posted on 03/17/2013 8:30:00 AM PDT by aMorePerfectUnion (Gone rogue, gone Galt, gone international, gone independent. Gone.)
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To: Colofornian

Same old rhetoric aimed at condemning all Mormons and all who do not believe exactly as you straight to hell - do not pass go - do not collect $100.

Recently, I read that you guys/gals also believe that Seventh Day Adventists are going straight to hell along with us Mormons and all other Christian denominations you loathe.

Thank you for your concern for my eternal soul but that job rightly belongs to my Savior Jesus Christ and He is ready, willing, and able to save my soul. He is my Advocate with the Father.

Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do.

Amen.


46 posted on 03/17/2013 8:57:50 AM PDT by District13 (Obama scares me)
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To: District13; Religion Moderator; Colofornian

“Recently, I read that you guys/gals also believe that Seventh Day Adventists are going straight to hell along with us Mormons and all other Christian denominations you loathe.”

When you posted this personal attack on Colofornian, I’m guessing you had in mind a specific place he “condemned a Mormon to hell” or “loathed anyone”?

If so, please post an example. I’ve never seen either.


47 posted on 03/17/2013 9:47:22 AM PDT by aMorePerfectUnion (Gone rogue, gone Galt, gone international, gone independent. Gone.)
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To: District13
Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do.

 photo THROWASPITWAD.jpg

48 posted on 03/17/2013 11:08:52 AM PDT by greyfoxx39 (Thanks Mitt.)
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To: District13

“Same old rhetoric...”


... of a Mormon blinded of the truth. It be nice if you would address the scripture, or even your own teachings on the matter. But you won’t, because there is nothing you can say contrary to it.

Instead, you seem to think that telling us we believe you’re going to hell is supposed to make us silent or something.

If you die as a Mormon, hell is the only place you can go. Because there is no forgiveness for your sins in the LDS, where your polygamous prophet with 30+ wives, 12 of whom still married to other men, lied to you and claimed that you could work out your own salvation through your self-righteousness and even become a god.

If you knew what you are, and what we are, you would know that you are worthy of hell, and certainly never godhood.

Rom_3:10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:

Man, without God, is nothing. Salvation is by the grace of God, not of ourselves, but by the mercy of God only. It is the easiest thing in the world... but you make it distant by your own insistence on works-righteousness and the denial of His word.

Turning it around on us, and attacking us as if your fake Mormon Jesus is sufficient, is simply a diversion.

Your man-made religion and the Word of God are utterly incompatible, and your Mormon Jesus is as worthless as the Jehovah’s Witness Jesus, or the Baha’i Jesus.

There is only ONE God. If the LORD is God, follow him. If Belial is God, follow him. But I’d recommend you’d at least attempt to reconcile your religion with the scripture, before running after Belial.


49 posted on 03/17/2013 11:24:37 AM PDT by Greetings_Puny_Humans
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To: District13

“Thank you for your concern for my eternal soul but that job rightly belongs to my Savior Jesus Christ and He is ready, willing, and able to save my soul. He is my Advocate with the Father.”

Interesting, so is Jesus simply an advocate or does he hold any divine characteristics for you. If so then being a god himself, separate from the father is he just another in you Polytheistic blend of gods.

Also it is interesting that you claim Christ yet miss out on the very core of his teaching, that we do look out for each other, do minister and if needed snatch from the fire the lost.

“Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do.”

Sadly there are those in the LDS who know exactly what they are doing and the deception they hold over others, Whether you are the victim or an operator matters little in that regard.

As for those of us Christians who fight to expose the LDS, we too know exactly what we are doing, it was laid out very clearly for us in the Bible.


50 posted on 03/17/2013 12:48:34 PM PDT by ejonesie22 (8/30/10, the day Truth won.)
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