RE: I am saying that the pronouncement of the Council were in response to the teachings of the Reformers and a condemnation of them.
I don’t think you answered my question. If Trent’s pronouncement were a condemnation of the Reformer’s teachings (you just said it above), then surely the same condemnation applies to their present followers who teach similar things. But then, Vatican II calls them “United with Christ”, so which is it?
So, which is being condemned and why the condemnation? Is it because of the historical situation at that time which no longer exists today, or is it because of the TEACHINGS THEMSELVES?
My reading of Trent and Vatican I tells me that it is the TEACHINGS that are condemned. Which is, EVEN IF there is no existential threat like an Empire in schism today, the condemnation of the TEACHING still remains.
But you seem to be saying no... ( or maybe I read you wrongly).
RE: The rivalry with today’s evangelicals, to the extent that they do not use the rhetoric of the Protestant Reformers, is of a different kind.
OK, let’s say that today’s reformers do not use the heated rhetoric of the 16th century, are their beliefs ( e.g. Sola Scriptura, Sola Fide, non-recognition of the Pope as Primate ) still under Trent’s condemnation or not? And note I focus on the word — BELIEF, not the rhetoric of the 16th century, or the existential threat to the Empire.
RE: The rivalry with today’s evangelicals, to the extent that they do not use the rhetoric of the Protestant Reformers, is of a different kind <-— Note the last two words.
What is this “different kind” you are referring to? Could you please clarify? How is the belief of Reformed Christians today any different from the beliefs of the Protestant Reformers?
We must of course face the reality of the differences in doctrine. Luther and Calvin et al. developed theologies that were different from those of the Church and were contradicted—and condemned—m by the Council of Trent. But no evangelical today does not come to these doctrines the same way that the Reformers did. The Luther of 1521 was not yet a Lutheran. So long as he was alive, he kept developing his own thought and it did not become unchangeable until he died. It is said that on his deathbed, he affirmed his teachings. But as soon as he was dead, they were placed in the hands of other man. Ditto the works of Calvin, and by the end of the century we have Calvinism and we have Lutheranism, which are based on their teachings but not exactly the same. Today, Evangelicals may honor to their principles, but they are no more Lutherans or Calvinists than Luther and Calvin were Augustinians. They are embedded in a tradition, and what separates Catholics and Evangelicals is that each follows a tradition, and so particular principles matter less than the tradition as a whole. Of course the reform or evangelical tradition is far more diverse than the Catholic tradition. The development of denominationalism in the 19th century in America was an effort to arrive at certain common principles, which are the ones you list, but they are less important than the impulse created by revivalism.