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Why has a Jesuit never been elected Pope, until now?

Posted on 03/16/2013 4:25:22 PM PDT by FoxPro

I have been researching this today and I haven't found anything definitive on this topic. The order was formed in 1540. That is a long time to be shut out.


TOPICS: Religion & Politics
KEYWORDS: catholic; jesuits; pope; vanity

1 posted on 03/16/2013 4:25:22 PM PDT by FoxPro
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To: FoxPro

IIRC, many orders have never “had” a pope. May just mean that no Jesuits were in that league before.


2 posted on 03/16/2013 4:27:32 PM PDT by 2ndDivisionVet (I'll raise $2million for Sarah Palin's presidential run. What'll you do?)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

So it is basically a numbers thing.

The dice just never rolled their number?

I was thinking there was a back story...


3 posted on 03/16/2013 4:31:57 PM PDT by FoxPro
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To: FoxPro
Jesuits are considered Machiavellian, but that isn't necessarily it.
4 posted on 03/16/2013 4:32:51 PM PDT by 2ndDivisionVet (I'll raise $2million for Sarah Palin's presidential run. What'll you do?)
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To: FoxPro

There is a faction within the church that thinks ‘Jesuit’ equals ‘Satanist’. Seriously. That has worked it’s way into secular culture with many books/movies with religious components use a Jesuit as the bad guy. Hinda like Opus Dei and Dan Brown. Same kinda thing.


5 posted on 03/16/2013 4:34:47 PM PDT by Norm Lenhart
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To: FoxPro

It’s an interesting question. First, maybe find out what % of Cardinals belong to a particular order, Dominican, Jesuit and so on. Then see where those Cardinals are from, especially looking at Italy if you go back farther than the last few Popes. Then you would have to look at the ages of the Cardinals (can’t be too young or too old) and if they coincided in a suitable way with conclaves. Maybe it’s just something like black left handed knuckleball pitchers, a minority of a minority of a minority.

Maybe the order of Albino Asassin Monks wouldn’t take orders from a Jesuit until recently.

Freegards


6 posted on 03/16/2013 4:47:38 PM PDT by Ransomed
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To: FoxPro
Jesuits historically have avoided elevated office. It is rare to even see one as a Cardinal. They are content to mold young minds and eschew direct involvement in worldly matters...as a rule.
7 posted on 03/16/2013 4:47:44 PM PDT by davius (You can roll manure in powdered sugar but that don't make it a jelly doughnut.)
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To: FoxPro

I have been thinking that Pope Francis had a connection to St Francis of Xavier because of both being of the Jesuit order and similar church histories and both from the Southern Hemisphere. I’ll have to change my thinking even though I still wonder why there is no mention of Francis Xavier in Pope Francis’s life..


8 posted on 03/16/2013 4:49:48 PM PDT by noinfringers2
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To: FoxPro

Historically, the Jesuits were the “zealots”... indeed for centuries the Jesuits were the “enforcement” order, established to make certain the Pope’s orders were followed.

When a priest “stepped out of line”, it was the Jesuits that often would “come knocking”.


9 posted on 03/16/2013 4:51:40 PM PDT by TheBattman (Isn't the lesser evil... still evil?)
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To: FoxPro

I believe part of the answer is that the Jesuits don’t usually “seek” higher office. I think I have only seen one Jesuit bishop, a monsignor, and the rest were priests. it’s unusual for a Jesuit to be in an office high enough for consideration. This is not the only reason, obviously. And I am only speaking from my own experience. Numbers could be different worldwide.


10 posted on 03/16/2013 4:54:20 PM PDT by redhead (NO GROUND TO THE DEVIL! Use Weaponized Prayer)
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To: FoxPro

Their Order didn’t allow them to take higher offices outside the Order. It’s part of the promises they make when they join the Order. “ Jesuit priests at the time of their solemn and final profession in the Society of Jesus promise: I will never strive or ambition, not even indirectly, to be chosen or promoted to any prelacy or dignity in or outside the Society; and I will do my best never to consent to my election unless I am forced to do so by obedience to him who can order me under penalty of sin (Constitutions S.J., Part X, N°6 [817]).”

If they do serve outside the Order they lose their voice within the Order and are no longer under obedience to the Superior General.


11 posted on 03/16/2013 5:01:21 PM PDT by airedale
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To: FoxPro; All

A very interesting question and a very informative, educational thread. Thanks to all posters.


12 posted on 03/16/2013 5:06:03 PM PDT by PGalt
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To: FoxPro
Why has a Jesuit never been elected Pope, until now?

What an interesting Inquisition!

13 posted on 03/16/2013 5:06:34 PM PDT by seowulf ("If you write a whole line of zeroes, it's still---nothing"...Kira Alexandrovna Argounova)
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To: FoxPro

Why the first Jesuit pope is a big deal

By Caleb Bell, Religion News Service, The Washington Post, March 14, 2013

Jesuits are bound by oath not to seek higher office in the Roman Catholic Church, and now one of them has been elected to its highest office: Bishop of Rome, Vicar of Christ, Pontifex Maximus.

Pope Francis, the first Jesuit to become pope, not only represents a paradox for the papacy, but also the larger history of the Society of Jesus, as the Jesuits are formally known.

Complete article:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/on-faith/why-the-first-jesuit-pope-is-a-big-deal/2013/03/14/16f701c4-8ced-11e2-adca-74ab31da3399_story.html


14 posted on 03/16/2013 5:08:05 PM PDT by Jyotishi (Seeking the truth, a fact at a time.)
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To: All

These are all very good answers.

I am in awe of people who participate in the forums of Freerepublic.com

Thank you all for tonight’s education.


15 posted on 03/16/2013 5:08:28 PM PDT by FoxPro
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To: FoxPro

Most Cardinals are chosen from the diocesan ranks. “Diocesan” means one is not a member of a religious order like the Jesuits, Franciscans, Dominicans, Benedictines, and so on.


16 posted on 03/16/2013 5:08:40 PM PDT by RPTMS
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To: FoxPro

The last line of Nostradamus’ last quatrain regarding the Papal prophecies describes Petraeus Romanus as being the “Black Red”.

The color black has long been associated with the Jesuit Order.

The real power behind the Papal throne in the Vatican has long been rumored to be the Jesuit General or the “Black Pope”, and Jesuits have long been associated with the CFR, Bildenburgers, Trilatteralists, the global banking cabal and the Mafia, as well as most if not all of the world’s intelligence agencies.

The more I research the Jesuit Order, the spookier it gets.

Are you aware of the oath that Jesuits reputedly take when they become “professed” or of high degree?

http://www.remnantofgod.org/jes-oth.htm#oath

The Extreme Oath of the Jesuits:

“1, _ now, in the presence of Almighty God, the Blessed Virgin Mary, the blessed Michael the Archangel, the blessed St. John the Baptist, the holy Apostles St. Peter and St. Paul and all the saints and sacred hosts of heaven, and to you, my ghostly father, the Superior General of the Society of Jesus, founded by St. Ignatius Loyola in the Pontificate of Paul the Third, and continued to the present, do by the womb of the virgin, the matrix of God, and the rod of Jesus Christ, declare and swear, that his holiness the Pope is Christ’s Vice-regent and is the true and only head of the Catholic or Universal Church throughout the earth; and that by virtue of the keys of binding and loosing, given to his Holiness by my Savior, Jesus Christ, he hath power to depose heretical kings, princes, states, commonwealths and governments, all being illegal without his sacred confirmation and that they may safely be destroyed.
Therefore, to the utmost of my power I shall and will defend this doctrine of his Holiness’ right and custom against all usurpers of the heretical or Protestant authority whatever, especially the Lutheran of Germany, Holland, Denmark, Sweden, Norway, and the now pretended authority and churches of England and Scotland, and branches of the same now established in Ireland and on the Continent of America and elsewhere; and all adherents in regard that they be usurped and heretical, opposing the sacred Mother Church of Rome.
I do now renounce and disown any allegiance as due to any heretical king, prince or state named Protestants or Liberals, or obedience to any of the laws, magistrates or officers.

I do further declare that the doctrine of the churches of England and Scotland, of the Calvinists, Huguenots and others of the name Protestants or Liberals to be damnable and they themselves damned who will not forsake the same.

I do further declare, that I will help, assist, and advise all or any of his Holiness’ agents in any place wherever I shall be, in Switzerland, Germany, Holland, Denmark, Sweden, Norway, England, Ireland or America, or in any other Kingdom or territory I shall come to, and do my uttermost to extirpate the heretical Protestants or Liberals’ doctrines and to destroy all their pretended powers, regal or otherwise.

I do further promise and declare, that notwithstanding I am dispensed with, to assume my religion heretical, for the propaganda of the Mother Church’s interest, to keep secret and private all her agents’ counsels from time to time, as they may entrust me and not to divulge, directly or indirectly, by word, writing or circumstance whatever; but to execute all that shall be proposed, given in charge or discovered unto me, by you, my ghostly father, or any of this sacred covenant.

I do further promise and declare, that I will have no opinion or will of my own, or any mental reservation whatever, even as a corpse or cadaver (perinde ac cadaver), but will unhesitatingly obey each and every command that I may receive from my superiors in the Militia of the Pope and of Jesus Christ.

That I may go to any part of the world withersoever I may be sent, to the frozen regions of the North, the burning sands of the desert of Africa, or the jungles of India, to the centers of civilization of Europe, or to the wild haunts of the barbarous savages of America, without murmuring or repining, and will be submissive in all things whatsoever communicated to me.

I furthermore promise and declare that I will, when opportunity present, make and wage relentless war, secretly or openly, against all heretics, Protestants and Liberals, as I am directed to do, to extirpate and exterminate them from the face of the whole earth; and that I will spare neither age, sex or condition; and that I will hang, waste, boil, flay, strangle and bury alive these infamous heretics, rip up the stomachs and wombs of their women and crush their infants’ heads against the walls, in order to annihilate forever their execrable race. That when the same cannot be done openly, I will secretly use the poisoned cup, the strangulating cord, the steel of the poniard or the leaden bullet, regardless of the honor, rank, dignity, or authority of the person or persons, whatever may be their condition in life, either public or private, as I at any time may be directed so to do by any agent of the Pope or Superior of the Brotherhood of the Holy Faith, of the Society of Jesus.

In confirmation of which, I hereby dedicate my life, my soul and all my corporal powers, and with this dagger which I now receive, I will subscribe my name written in my own blood, in testimony thereof; and should I prove false or weaken in my determination, may my brethren and fellow soldiers of the Militia of the Pope cut off my hands and my feet, and my throat from ear to ear, my belly opened and sulphur burned therein, with all the punishment that can be inflicted upon me on earth and my soul be tortured by demons in an eternal hell forever!

All of which, I, _, do swear by the Blessed Trinity and blessed Sacraments, which I am now to receive, to perform and on my part to keep inviolable; and do call all the heavenly and glorious host of heaven to witness the blessed Sacrament of the Eucharist, and witness the same further with my name written and with the point of this dagger dipped in my own blood and sealed in the face of this holy covenant.”

(He receives the wafer from the Superior and writes his name with the point of his dagger dipped in his own blood taken from over his heart.)
************************

So... Even though the new Pope did not choose the name of “Petraeus”, was the prophecy of the “Black Pope” all that far off?

Stay tuned.


17 posted on 03/16/2013 5:10:53 PM PDT by George Varnum (Liberty, like our Forefather's Flintlock Musket, must be kept clean, oiled, and READY!)
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To: FoxPro

Basically for the same reason we have never had a US Marine as President.
But things can change.


18 posted on 03/16/2013 5:11:19 PM PDT by Ouchthatonehurt ("When you're going through hell, keep going." - Sir Winston Churchill)
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To: Norm Lenhart

Robert Philip Hanssen was a FBI agent who spied for Soviet and Russian intelligence services against the United States for 22 years from 1979 to 2001. He was a very active member of Opus Dei.

Back when I was young I flirted with Libertarianism for a while. For a few years I read a paleo-conservative magazine called Chronicles, published by Thomas Fleming. (there are 2 well known men with that name) This Thomas Fleming attended the same Church as Philip Hanssen and both were members of Opus Dei.

Now, I am not condeming Opus Dei for one man’s actions. That would be wrong. But I found it an interesting coincidence.


19 posted on 03/16/2013 5:13:14 PM PDT by Texas Fossil
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Comment #20 Removed by Moderator

To: redhead
I agree. In fact, it looks like the only reason this Pope ever became a Cardinal was because Benedict XVI knew that would checkmate the anti-Catholic politicians in Argentina and move Bergoglio back from the boondocks. Benedict knew he had a spine and wanted him back where he could do the most good is what it seems like.

From everything I've read, Bergoglio was quite content to be teaching out in the boondocks.

21 posted on 03/16/2013 5:23:41 PM PDT by Rashputin (Jesus Christ doesn't evacuate His troops, He leads them to victory.)
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To: Ouchthatonehurt
Basically for the same reason we have never had a US Marine as President.

This is a very good answer.

22 posted on 03/16/2013 5:26:09 PM PDT by FoxPro
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To: FoxPro

A Jar Head President.... Hard to believe!!!


23 posted on 03/16/2013 5:37:56 PM PDT by tired&retired
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To: George Varnum
So... Even though the new Pope did not choose the name of “Petraeus”, was the prophecy of the “Black Pope” all that far off?

That's just plain silly.

24 posted on 03/16/2013 5:39:28 PM PDT by TonyInOhio (H-O-L-D F-A-S-T)
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To: FoxPro

If you want some real hard core knowledge of the Jesuits, here is a long read but fascinating. I don’t know how much is true but where there is smoke there is fire. FYI
http://www.theforbiddenknowledge.com/hardtruth/blackpope.htm


25 posted on 03/16/2013 5:42:30 PM PDT by ladyL
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To: All
Read: "The Jesuits"
"The Society of Jesus and the
Betrayal of the Roman Catholic Church"

by Malachi Martin

Very informative. And it isn't just book that bashes the Jesuits but it is quite critical of them. Particularly how socialist/Marxist they have become. It also delves into their history. Written by former Jesuit Malachi Martin.
26 posted on 03/16/2013 5:45:03 PM PDT by StormEye
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To: ladyL
http://www.theforbiddenknowledge.com/hardtruth/blackpope.htm

So the new Pope worships Lucifer (the devil)? I need a tin foil hat for this...

27 posted on 03/16/2013 5:56:52 PM PDT by FoxPro
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To: George Varnum

Wow, haven’t seen that on FR for a long time. That false Jesuit oath is actually so debunked and wacky FR banned it. Sometimes you see it as the oath of the Knights of Columbus, which is even more amusing. Same thing with He Who Is Not To Be Named On the Religion Forum. I think it’s funny myself, in a ‘point and snicker kind of way.’

It’s right up there with the super computer under the Vatican with all the Protestant names and locations.

Freegards


28 posted on 03/16/2013 6:03:02 PM PDT by Ransomed
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To: FoxPro

It is my understanding that there haven’t been many Jesuits who have been made Cardinals, so they just weren’t ‘in the running’.


29 posted on 03/16/2013 6:12:49 PM PDT by SuziQ
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To: FoxPro

I may be completely off-base here, but I would presume that it’s not typical for a priest from an order like the Jesuits to get appointed to a position like a bishop of a major diocese. I thought bishops usually came from the ranks of diocesan priests, not from an order of priests like the Franciscans, Jesuits, etc.


30 posted on 03/16/2013 6:35:26 PM PDT by Alberta's Child ("I am the master of my fate ... I am the captain of my soul.")
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To: George Varnum

I understand that “Oath” has been debunked and refuted by the Jesuits. Author and purpose unknown?

Best I can tell, our new Pope never sought accolades and prestige but was called on by the church in circumstances that have now elevated him to the highest order or calling.

I pray for him and have high hopes.


31 posted on 03/16/2013 6:38:59 PM PDT by Tenacious 1 ("The British are Coming (to confiscate weapons)" - Paul Revere (We know how that ended))
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To: George Varnum

Are you aware that I have a bridge in Brooklyn to sell you at a very affordable price?


32 posted on 03/16/2013 6:53:13 PM PDT by A.A. Cunningham (Barry Soetoro can't pass E-verify)
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To: Ouchthatonehurt
Basically for the same reason we have never had a US Marine as President.

Once a Marine, always a Marine.

Along the same train of thought, if you usurp the office through voter fraud, you will never really think you are the President, so you will do nothing but campaign for 4 or 8 years.

33 posted on 03/16/2013 7:04:27 PM PDT by BerryDingle (I know how to deal with communists, I still wear their scars on my back from Hollywood-Ronald Reagan)
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To: FoxPro

Timing is everything


34 posted on 03/16/2013 7:07:13 PM PDT by knarf (I say things that are true ... I have no proof ... but they're true)
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To: FoxPro

because Jesuits have traditionally been left wing progressives that didn’t believe in God?


35 posted on 03/16/2013 7:21:03 PM PDT by yldstrk (My heroes have always been cowboys)
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To: Rashputin

The present pope was elevated to Cardinal by JPII not Benedict.


36 posted on 03/16/2013 7:36:18 PM PDT by pgkdan ( "Those who hammer their guns into plows will plow for those who do not." ~Thomas Jefferson)
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To: davius
Jesuits historically have avoided elevated office. It is rare to even see one as a Cardinal. They are content to mold young minds and eschew direct involvement in worldly matters...as a rule.

For sure. They had a field day raping and molesting Alaska Native children in rural Alaska. The damage the jesuits did was incalculable and is just now surfacing publicly. Alaska Natives have a much higher than average suicide rate and the jesuits are part of the reason.

37 posted on 03/16/2013 8:02:13 PM PDT by AlaskaErik (I served and protected my country for 31 years. Progressives spent that time trying to destroy it.)
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To: FoxPro
The answer is simple, the Jesuits were brought to order to quash the rebellious daughters who thought the church needed reforming.

check the cemetery, oh sorry, I mean seminary rosters, they have infiltrated every religious sect of religion, even Islam.

Think not they come to change from without, NO, true destruction comes from within. Know Thy Word and Thy Word will set one free to be at peace as it all unfolds.

38 posted on 03/16/2013 8:07:30 PM PDT by patlin ("Knowledge is a powerful source that is 2nd to none but God" ConstitutionallySpeaking 2011)
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To: FoxPro

Ask anyone who’s had Jesuit professors.

They can be a little, “off putting.” Keep in mind, it’s an election and people want to like the guys they are voting for.


39 posted on 03/16/2013 8:10:31 PM PDT by Vermont Lt (Does anybody really know what time it is? Does anybody really care?)
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To: FoxPro

Why the first Jesuit pope is a big deal

http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/on-faith/why-the-first-jesuit-pope-is-a-big-deal/2013/03/14/16f701c4-8ced-11e2-adca-74ab31da3399_story.html

“Jesuits are bound by oath not to seek higher office in the Roman Catholic Church, and now one of them has been elected to its highest office: Bishop of Rome, Vicar of Christ, Pontifex Maximus”


40 posted on 03/16/2013 9:00:13 PM PDT by Innovative ("Winning isn't everything, it's the only thing." -- Vince Lombardi)
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Comment #41 Removed by Moderator

To: pgkdan

OK, JPII got him out of the boonies, it doesn’t alter the main point which is he wasn’t quite happy not going anywhere beyond teaching where he was but others felt he could do much more.


42 posted on 03/16/2013 10:29:10 PM PDT by Rashputin (Jesus Christ doesn't evacuate His troops, He leads them to victory.)
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To: FoxPro

Jesuits were known as the “Soldiers of the Church”. In the last 60 years , mainly in South and Central America, they became involved in “Liberation Theology”, which often worked AGAINST American “interests” in those areas.


43 posted on 03/17/2013 8:07:52 AM PDT by capt B
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To: Ransomed

Thanks for your expert rectification on that.

I have no way of knowing what it’s actual veracity might be, so you’re probably right.
Down through the ages some secret societies have come up with some pretty wild initiation ceremonies and rituals, and a few hundred years ago this sort of thing was hardly unprecedented.

People also have a way of making defamatory stuff up and attributing it to people or groups they don’t like, so as far as I’m concerned the jury is still out on this one pending, as the Quakers used to say, “further light”.

I suppose it’s pretty easy to debunk something on the Congressional Record too:

Congressional Record of the U.S.A. (House Bill 1523, Contested election case of Eugene C. Bonniwell, against Thos. S. Butler, Feb. 15, 1913, pp. 3215-3216) Washington, D.C., Library of Congress Catalog Card # 66-43354

...and apparently someone, to their own satisfaction at least, has.

https://secure.gn.apc.org/members/www.bilderberg.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=7171&sid=687a0a71983ffe9a68127fee74db9144
(extensive rebuttal about the 4th post down)

Some people write entire books based on malicious and spurious rumors, apparently; the “oath” I mentioned came from from the book “Subterranean Rome” by Charles Didier, translated from the French and published in New York in 1843.
Dr. Alberto Rivera allegedly escaped from the Jesuit Order in 1967, which implies that he had been a member of it and might have known a few things about it.

I’ll bet, however, if you did some independent research you’d discover just what a kook he was. No doubt he had some axes to grind, and I’m sure that if you look you’ll find a few.

This “Oath” thing is probably much like that malicious rumor that was going around about a certain Kenyan immigrant who reputedly used forged birth certificate and stolen SSAN to circumvent Constitutional restrictions against foreign nationals becoming POTUS.

Wasn’t that silly? Has FR banned that thoroughly debunked “hoax” as well?

Come to think of it, I haven’t seen much “birther” talk on here for a while, so perhaps it has been.
I hope I didn’t just get myself zotted for mentioning it...

Even our “conservative” pundits like Rush and Beck disparaged anyone who thinks there might be something to that “hoax” as idiots and “conspiracy theorists” below their utter contempt.

BTW; How many gullible people fell for that whole “Holocaust” whopper, huh? Can you believe that some people still believe that almost a century ago, some 6 million Jews (as well as a few million Gypsies, Evangelical Christians and political dissenters) were rounded up and systematically exterminated by a duly elected government?

Who’dda thunk it? (/s)


44 posted on 03/18/2013 8:21:14 AM PDT by George Varnum (Liberty, like our Forefather's Flintlock Musket, must be kept clean, oiled, and READY!)
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To: George Varnum

Just imagine what the oath of the order of albino assassin monks might be! The only thing that probably keeps it from being exposed is the well known lust for blood that those pigmentless zealots possess.

Freegards


45 posted on 03/18/2013 8:57:47 AM PDT by Ransomed
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To: Ransomed

I tremble to even speculate.

Just glad we don’t have one of their Monasteries around here!

Look at all the trouble the Boy Scouts are getting into over their oath, for goodness’ sake!


46 posted on 03/18/2013 10:29:16 AM PDT by George Varnum (Liberty, like our Forefather's Flintlock Musket, must be kept clean, oiled, and READY!)
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