Skip to comments.Oh, we are in deep, deep trouble
Posted on 03/16/2013 7:33:00 PM PDT by E. Pluribus Unum
The consecration of the Host happens at 51:47. The consecration of the Chalice happens at 52:32.
I cannot believe I am about to type these words.
The Pope DID NOT GENUFLECT after either consecration. He did a weird bow thing, but didn't feel the need to bend his knee to God Almighty, physically present in his hands upon the altar.
HE. DID. NOT. GENUFLECT.
This is absolutely stunning. And unprecedented.
Oh yeah, we're in deep, deep trouble.
But hey, all of you guys who are sending me emails whining about how I'm not nice, or something, go ahead and explain this one. He is perfectly physically sound. He FREELY CHOOSES to not reverence Our Lord in the Eucharist upon the altar.
Oh, and he also didn't genuflect to Our Lord in the Tabernacle when he went to Santa Maria Maggiore on Thursday morning, either. Um, how can a man truly love Our Lady if he doesn't first show even the slightest respect to her Son? Someone please explain that one to me.
Hey! I have an idea! Let's do a Pope watch. First one to see the Pope genuflect to Our Lord in the Blessed Sacrament, and not to a Superfun Rockband church pastor, wins! In the mean time, everyone should pray for Pope Francis and that he learns to show Our Lord the tiniest bit of respect and GENUFLECT to Him after He comes down onto the altar, and whenever he approaches or crosses the plane of a Tabernacle in which Our Lord is physically present. I think that would be a great prayer intention for one and all.
I never occurred to me that my desire to do penance in reparation to Our Lord for the sacrileges of the world would include the consecration rubrics of THE POPE.
Kyrie eleison. Christe eleison. Kyrie eleison.
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This mabe a dumb question to some, but what exactly does the pope do? he cant save you, or forgive your sins, so what is there for?- just curious
Where in the Bible does it say that anyone should venerate "Our Lady" in order to respect her son?
It doesn't. Spoken by a Pharisee or Sadducee? Matthew 23 (New International Version)
"9. And do not call anyone on earth 'father,' for you have one Father, and he is in heaven. 10. Nor are you to be called 'teacher,' for you have one Teacher, the Christ. 11. The greatest among you will be your servant. 12. For whoever exalts himself will be humbled, and whoever humbles himself will be exalted. 13. Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You shut the kingdom of heaven in men's faces. You yourselves do not enter, nor will you let those enter who are trying to.
"24. You blind guides! You strain out a gnat but swallow a camel. 25. Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You clean the outside of the cup and dish, but inside they are full of greed and self-indulgence. 26. Blind Pharisee! First clean the inside of the cup and dish, and then the outside also will be clean. 27. Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You are like whitewashed tombs, which look beautiful on the outside but on the inside are full of dead men's bones and everything unclean. 28. In the same way, on the outside you appear to people as righteous but on the inside you are full of hypocrisy and wickedness."
oh please....for crying out loud, do you realize that your entire post said exactly nothing....a Demon????he is a Catholic Cardinal who was elected by his peers to lead THEM....wake up and get on a paranoia drug of some sort....pathetic!!
Ping for later
I am not Catholic, so I guess I cannot possibly hope to understand, but WHAT THE HECK DOES THIS HAVE TO DO WITH ANYTHING???
Following Christ is the most difficult SIMPLE thing a person can do on this earth. Don’t add to the Lord’s words and teachings with this kind of stuff.
he is the CEO of an institution of 1.3 billion people...he runs the show, he is the titular head of the CHRISTIAN church on earth....He is the Bishop of Rome and has the ordinary responsibilities there also.....a very busy guy
I just remembered something. Back in December there was a lot of stuff going around about her getting arrested and her websites going down for non-payment, etc.
Since then, the posts have gotten completely nuts like this. Her facebook page now is full of her posting mortgage spam and says it is no longer an official page but is still cross linked to the page linked in the original post.
Do you think someone seized her website when she didn’t pay and is trolling in her name?
This kind of stuff is just way over the top, even for her.
What does the Bible have to do with it? Ann’s the Official Pontificator of Phariseeville. Ain’t that authoritative ‘nuff for you? Get with the program. Genuflect to Ann. No, prostrate yourself before her. Bow and scrape and grovel for
the Messiah-ess and the Popess all rolled into one.
Don’t you dare disagree with her.
Fundamentally, together with councils, he resolves disputes, especially the ones that threaten to divide the Church. Since even a council can be divided and split, there has to be a buck-stops-here office or else abysmal fragmentation.
The abysmal fragmentation is what happened to those Christians who abandoned a clear authority structure and responsibility. Maybe Jesus didn’t really mean it when he insisted on unity (John ch. 17) but if you want unity, you have to have a way to resolve good faith disputes over how to interpret Scripture. If you don’t like that approach, each preacher gets to interpret Scripture for himself and we end up with 10,000 different “churches.”
Sorta like marriage: either you find a way to resolve disputes or you split up.
‘cuz the one thing you can count on is that disputes will arise. And every single one of the disputants will insist that his position is The Biblical One. So “the Bible as the authority” won’t cut it. Those who took that line now are divided into 10,000 different denominations (some say 30,000 but 10,000 is more accurate).
Actually he’s not CEO. Each bishop in his diocese has responsibility for governing, if you want to call that being “CEO.””
The pope is NOT a superbishop. He’s the Bishop of Rome and because he’s bishop of Rome he has the added-on role as successor of Peter of resolving disputes as I explained in a previous comment. But he does not and cannot “run” the whole Church around the world. That would be utterly impossible. The individual bishops together with him at their head, collegially govern.
First among equals, not superbishop.
This is hugh I tell you! Hugh!
Same here, but for me it works on only one side. If I can't push myself back up with my right hand, I can't do it at all.
Also, in my case it's kidney failure, not arthritis. At a glance I appear relatively young and healthy. Someone like this skank would look at me and say, "He can genuflect. Why doesn't he?"
I am only 70. The Pope is 6 years older than me.
I am 49.
I think this author needs to rethink her blast.
Definitely. She would not like to be judged by the measure she is using.
In addition to resolving disputes (that’s his unique role as bishop of Rome as far as governing is concerned), which is a governing role, he has a teaching role and a sanctifying role. But all bishops have all three roles (and all priests by extension and delegation from their bishop have all three roles). All bishops govern in their diocese (and, when a council is called, govern the universal Church), all teach in their diocese authoritatively, all sanctify (bring the sacraments to the people). They all delegate various aspects to priests, even deacons. And every father and mother also have governing, teaching, sanctifying roles.
All of these roles go on with varying degrees of autonomy in their spheres. The pope does them at the highest level but not as big Boss, rather as the one out in front leading all the others who do these same things in varied ways.
He does have authority to appoint bishops but only since the breakdown of the church into Protestant national churches—in England or parts of Germany there were no local authorities who were still Catholic who could appoint bishops as had been done for centuries, so it was centralized in the Pope’s office, for the sake of holding the Church together against the centrifugal pressure of nationalism and Protestantism (same thing, more or less).
We’re in deep, deep doo-doo?
(She gots a mouse in her pocketses?)
If you see Joel Osteen subbing for him one Sunday, you'll know. :)
Or like the whole Anglican/Catholic dispute where you just agree to live in different rooms and both of you drink a lot. :)
What a coinkydink.
Obama, too, does weird bow-things...
Lighten up Francis....
It struck me as odd the other night when our neighboring priest who was celebrating mass with our priest walked to the lectern and told us that if we criticize a priest we will bring a curse upon ourselves!!! To put it mildly I was shocked and told my husband that I wondered what St. Catherine would say about that.
Admonishing sinners is a spiritual work of mercy and if a priest is sinning then he needs to be admonished.
Where in the Bible does it say that anyone should venerate “Our Lady” in order to respect her son
It says so exactly in Luke 1 (Mary says “all generations will call her blessed” and in Luke 11:27-28 where Jesus tells the woman in the crowd that his mother, being the one who more than anyone else, hears the word of God and keeps it, should be honored as a way of honoring him.
Somehow I have a feeling that you will say, “but that’s a wrong interpretation of those passages.
Yep. You have a different interpretation. Fancy that. We disagree on interpretation of what the Bible says.
Like I wrote earlier, disputes over interpretation of the Bible . . . .
Yes but rash judgment and calumny are sins. Criticism must be based on accuracy, honesty, fairness, genuine listening to what the person we are criticizing said or did.
I’ll take your Catherine of Siena and raise by a St. Francis. Read what he said about respect for priests.
There’s a place for both. Knowing which is needed when is called wisdom, prudence, discernment. Pope St. Gregory I wrote a book about it. You might want to read it before you do your critiquing. It’s called The Pastoral Rule.
Excellent post. I don’t think many people realize the dangers of the three Cs.
Actually, the Bible guys tended to go more for prostration, falling totally flat on their faces before Almighty God. Since they thought that was normal, you guys who think a little baby step like genuflection is foreign to the Bible probably should start practicing prostration in your worship services.
As I recall, in the tiny Fundamentalist Church I grew up in, we knelt to pray during Wednesday night prayer meetings and on other occasions. Too bad we weren’t following the Bible but were adding human sinful traditions. If only we had prayed while prostrate. Then, like you, we’d have been true Bible Believers.
Since I’m sure you, being a real Bible follower, prostrate yourself every ten minutes in Church, could you give me some tips on how you get the grime out of your Sunday go-to-meetn’ clothes? Oh, I forgot, that’s not in the Bible either. But then neither does it say in the Bible that we should wear flip-flops and shorts and sit in theater-seats like the Willow Creek super-evangelist Christians do.
I’ll just stick with a few genuflections, I guess.
I suppose if your faith is legalistic, violations are bound to occur.
Just curious. How do you do your prostrations, being Biblical and all, in those theater seats??
Did they have theater seats on Mars Hill or in that Church Ephesus (was it Ephesus) where the guy fell out of the window listening to St. Paul?
And where in the Bible does it say anything about projecting ditties onto screens with computers so everyone can sing along with the Praise Band?
Good point. If your faith is lawless, there won’t be any violations. Wow. You just solved the whole problem of sin. No laws, no sins.
Gosh, how have we missed this for millennia? Was it hiding in plain sight?
girl dies for 23 hours and gives testimony of who she saw in hell.. “foward video to 26:00”
I take my cue from Obama...no rules - no fouls.
If we put the 'antichrist' language back in the Confession, I'm thinking the Presbyterians could pick up a few new members here.
"From now on all generations will call me blessed, 49 for the Mighty One has done great things for me holy is his name"
You believe the Bible calls for worship (veneration) of Mary?
Have you ever done a word study on Mary - including Jesus' instruction on her heavenly position or offspring after having Jesus?
Then His Mother and His brothers came to Him but were unable to join Him because of the crowd. He was told, Your Mother and Your brothers are standing outside and they wish to see you. He said to them in reply, My Mother and My brothers are those who hear the word of God and act on it.
While He was speaking, a woman from the crowd called out and said to Him, Blessed is the womb that carried you and the breasts at which you nursed. He replied, Rather, blessed are those who hear the word of God and observe it.
Reminds me of the time someone was complaining that someone said “aye-man” instead of “ah-men”. How day he pronounce it that way...blashphemer
“Rather, blessed are those who hear the word of God and observe it.” May God bless us, all
“...and in Luke 11:27-28 where Jesus tells the woman in the crowd that his mother, being the one who more than anyone else, hears the word of God and keeps it, should be honored as a way of honoring him.
Luk 11:27-28 And it came to pass, as he spake these things, a certain woman of the company lifted up her voice, and said unto him, Blessed is the womb that bare thee, and the paps which thou hast sucked. (28) But he said, Yea rather, blessed are they that hear the word of God, and keep it.
Yea, RATHER, blessed are they that hear the word of God and keep it.
“Like I wrote earlier, disputes over interpretation of the Bible . . . .”
Instead of finding interpretations, you should have just read it plainly.
“Actually, the Bible guys tended to go more for prostration, falling totally flat on their faces before Almighty God. “
Falling totally flat on our faces in front of an altar doesn’t strike me as bowing before Almighty God. I’ll pass on the activity.
“What does the Bible have to do with it?”
Heh! There’s the problem right there.
No, if you looked at the philology, you see that the conjunction can be a “no not that but this” contrast or a “yest that but even more this
it is used both ways in Scripture.
So you can’t resolve it philologically, so you go to context.
In the Infancy Narratives Mary is the epitome of those who hear the word of God and keep it.
Not to conclude that Jesus is endorsing the blessedness of his own mother when he says that those who hear the word of God and keep it (she kept the Word in a way no one else could, in her womb, as well as pondering the words of God to her from the angels and magi and so on and so forth).
This is the only realistic way to interpret that passage: anyone who read Luke would see immediately the connection between 11:27-28 and Luke 2:15, 2:51 etc.
Elementary exegesis. Never noticed that, did you? Wonder why? Presuppostions you bring to Scripture, perhaps?
“Not to conclude that Jesus is endorsing . . . is to be impervious to the obvious intention of the writer of Luke”
It is tradition. Here is scripture discussing tradition.
Paul illustrated what tradition is: “For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received, that Christ died for our sins in accordance with the scriptures. . . . Whether then it was I or they, so we preach and so you believed” (1 Cor. 15:3,11). The apostle praised those who followed Tradition: “I commend you because you remember me in everything and maintain the traditions even as I have delivered them to you” (1 Cor. 11:2).
I was typing a long response but the basketball game got too exciting! NMSU won the WAC! When they were playing at the goal to the right I could see my granddaughter when the ref wasn’t standing front of her. So anyway my mind just lost direction, maybe tomorrow.
Learn something about words, please.
Veneration means honor. We routinely venerate people,humans. I venerate my mother and you should too because it’s one of the Ten Commandments: Venerate your father and mother that your days will be long in the earth.””
Thats ALL veneration means.
Worship comes from worthship, ascribing worth. Originally it was applied both to humans and God. BUT with the difference that the worth you ascribe to God is different from the worth you ascribe to humans. Even “worship” can properly be offered to humans if by that you merely mean what the word once meant: give the worth they deserve. My father deserves father-worth, my dog deserve dog-worth, God deserves God-worth or dignity.
Elites, not merely kings (magistrates) etc. were called “worshipful gentlement” etc. “Your Worship” was a human title 400 years ago and no one thought the speaker was worshiping the human as God.
But in modern English worship has come to be restricted to ascribing divine worth to the Divine, to God.
So we restrict our honor of Mary to veneration. You will NEVER find the term worship applied to Mary in any modern Catholic writing. If you find it in archaic writings, but read it in a modern way, you are a fool and an idiot, ignorant of history and language.
We venerate Mary as a human being who said Yes to God and carried Him in her womb and nursed him and changed His diapers.
Jesus himself honored his mother. Had Jesus not honored (venerated) His mother, He would have sinned, broken one of the Ten Commandments and he would not be your Savior and mine.
So stop it with the falsehoods you spread about us.
Luther honored and venerated Mary to the end of his life. Wesley did, and believed in her perpetual virginity. Calvin honored (venerated) her. They all did what the woman in the crowd did, whom Jesus endorsed but also used as a teaching moment and in the teaching honored his own mother as one who more than any other heard and kept the word of God.
You are the odd man out. You are the one defying centuries of the life of the Church, both East and West, Protestant and Catholic.
You know better than Wesley,Luther, Calvin, I’m sure. You know so much better than they because you never bothered even to learn what they had to say about Mary.
You do realize that was sarcastic????
“No, if you looked at the philology, you see that the conjunction can be a no not that but this contrast or a yest that but even more this”
It doesn’t actually matter, since I wasn’t disputing the usage.
If a Christian hears the word of God, he is blessed.
It says nothing about Mary being specially blessed. In fact, the moment that is suggested by the woman, Jesus connects the blessedness to every believer, “BUT Jesus said, yea, RATHER, blessed are they...”
I don’t care how you philopapacize it, please demonstrate how any of that turns into: “being the one who more than anyone else, hears the word of God and keeps it, should be honored as a way of honoring him.”
So, where does it say that she is blessed “more than anyone else” who hears the word of God and obeys it? Where does it say that you must honor Mary to honor Him? He doesn’t say anything of the sort. It simply says, “Yea, rather, blessed are THEY who hear the word of God and obey it.”
Yet, you do. Amazing. You know what God has written in any given persons’ heart. How is that?