I gave you the extended scenes in the Book of Revelation and you ignored it.
There are no merely “dead”” people as far as Christians who have died in Christ. THere are hundreds of Scriptures in the New Testament about the dead in Christ being present with him. If you are in Christ and they are in Christ, what part of ïn Christ don’t you get?
You don’t really pay attention to what your interlocutors write.
I asked for your examples of earthy-bound souls praying to heavenly-bound souls and you simply repeated your oblique reference to St. John in Revelation. If this is such a strongly supported doctrine, you should be able to enumerate several examples. But, your argument is too weak, so you cast dispersions on my understanding rather than provide scriptural examples.
"I gave you the extended scenes in the Book of Revelation and you ignored it.
You didn't actually give me a quote, but I knew what you meant and I DID addresses it. I said
"I'm not talking about someone who is miraculously lifted into heaven and given a special revelation of things to come, I'm talking about doctrinal instruction or examples of engaging in normal prayer with the departed. "
Also, the elders in heaven spoke to John, but John did NOT speak or pray to them. Same with Peter at the Mount of Transfiguration.
"There are no merely dead people as far as Christians who have died in Christ. THere are hundreds of Scriptures in the New Testament about the dead in Christ being present with him. If you are in Christ and they are in Christ, what part of ïn Christ dont you get?"
The Church: I'm "in the church", but I'm sitting on my couch. Its a statement of relationship. Im part of the church by being a believer, saved by grace, with a specific purpose or calling. Those who believe are part of the body of Christ as individuals in a group. Yes, we are with Him, we are NOT Him.
The Spirit: I concede the spirit does not vanish upon death and its either with our Lord or in Hades, but a persons spirit does not suddenly take on all of the powers of an omnificent/potent/present God. According to the Bible, our spirit remains an individual entity it doesnt become a part of some universal god.
Prayer: We communicate with God through Jesus. No one other then God - The Father/Son/Holy Spirit - is capable of omnificent/potent/present deeds. St. Francis isnt God who can receive and respond to a million people praying to him all at the same time. That concept is far outside the realm of sound Biblical teaching. It can only be supported by ancient cultural traditions and not by Biblical scripture.