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Liberals will soon turn on Pope Francis
WDTPRS ^ | March 17, 2013 | Fr. John Zuhlsdorf

Posted on 03/17/2013 11:37:37 AM PDT by NYer

We are still a bare few days into the pontificate of Pope Francis. I have therefore declined to gush out lots of entries here, burbling my every half-formed notion about what is going to happen. I have also avoided surfing from site to site, news agency to news agency, to sift the wonky grindings of those who want to be in-the-know.

Today, however, I went to see what the National Schismatic Reporter had to say. John Allen is a well-informed, hard-working analyst, of course, and well-worth consulting, while the rest of the writers over there are good for a laugh.

With amused anticipation I clicked open the remarks on Pope Francis by Jamie Mason, the Yale-presbyterian-educated disciple of Sr. Margaret Farley and lesbian activist darling of the LCWR. Knowing that Pope Francis upholds the Church’s teaching on marriage, I expected a slightly hysterical diatribe against him as a homophobe, and how the Church – in conformity with the world – needs more queering, etc.

I got a surprise!

Jamie doesn’t like Francis, yes, for the obvious reason, but her real dislike seems to come from something else. In her expression of this dislike, she may be ahead of the pack of liberals that are – fairly soon – going to turn on Francis. They will turn on him savagely.

In the meantime, Manson shows what direction they are going to go:

I have been touched by Francis’ clear love of the poor and the images of his bathing the feet of sick children and AIDS patients. [Predictable.] I am troubled by his alleged failure stand up with Argentine dictators during the “Dirty War” [She needs to get up to speed on the facts.] and his harmful words about LGBT families. [The Pope is Catholic, Jamie. Speaking clearly about the Church's teaching, is not "harmful", it is charitable... but let's go on...] I am worried by reports that he was unpopular among his brother Jesuits because of his unfavorable views of base communities and liberation theology. [Because she, of course, would support base communities and liberation theology.]

But what most piqued my interest [Now we get to it...] about Pope Francis is his strong tie to a movement called Comunione e Liberazione, or Communion and Liberation (CL).

There it is.

Now, to her credit, she does a little homework about CL. She didn’t like what she found. To wit…

[...]

Much of what I have learned about CL, other than from the organization’s website, comes from the essay “Comunione e Liberazione: A Fundamentalist Idea of Power,” written by theologian and political scientist Dario Zadra. …

[...]

In his article on CL, Zadra explains that the movement’s worldview stems from [NB: Whether Zadra is right or not is not the point here. Mason is taking Zadra at his word.] two main ideas: “That Christ is the saving event in human history, and that religious authority is a fundamental element of the human condition.” [Get that? "religious authority".] He continues: “Members place religion at the center of a new worldview and in their evangelistic efforts at transforming the relationship between modern society and religion.” [People like this are viewed as the enemy by the Fishwrap types. Religion, and religion which leans on authority, is at the center of everything? Imagine!]

[...] Zadra explains: “In CL the authoritative character of the event of salvation is directly translated into the authority of the Church. … The central event in life is a saving encounter with the communion embodied in the Church.” [Not just any Church, the Catholic Church. Not the catholic Church of the National catholic Reporter, but the actually Catholic Church, which has a Mass with rubrics and a Catechism with teachings, and a Code of laws and ... all that stuff that you can look up. This isn't the National catholic ... Schismatic Reporter's de-centralized association of self-affirming blobs of vaguely catholic identity. Nope. What NSR/Mason fear is a vigorous and clear reiteration of Catholic morals and doctrine to counteract all the great strides that have been made in reducing the church to an instrument of social justice without any strong voice in the public square contrary to relativistic trends in society.]

[... ] CL’s insistence on “total fidelity and communion with the Succession of Peter[sic] (a direct quote from Benedict XVI himself) has made the movement particularly popular among members of the hierarchy. [hierarchy (male) = enemy]

[Here it is...]Obedience to the authority of the church seems as crucial to Pope Francis as it did to his predecessor and as it does to CL. [Get that?] In a 2005 profile of Cardinal Bergoglio, Jose Maria Poirier, editor of the Argentinean Catholic magazine Criterio, wrote, “He exercised his authority as provincial with an iron fist, calmly demanding strict obedience and clamping down on critical voices. Many Jesuits complained that he considered himself the sole interpreter of St Ignatius of Loyola, and to this day speak of him warily.” [Papa Bergoglio isn't into interminable text/content distorting dialogue and consensus building?]

[...] CL boldly claims that the Church embodies authoritative truth that is binding on society at large. [Not just Catholic members of society but all members of society.] By claiming the presence of Christ, the Church also claims divine authority — a kind of inerrancy, not of the biblical text (as in Protestant fundamentalism) but of the Church.

This belief in the inerrancy of the church influences CL’s understanding of human conscience. “The conscience of the individual is shaped by and beholden to the Church,” Zadra writes, “and the Church ought to be considered the living and legitimate paradigm of society.” [In other words, you can't say "I'm Catholic, but I don't believe the Church's teaching on ___" (e.g., homosexual acts, abortion, contraception, to name a few items). No, we are bound to form our consciences according to the mind of the Church. This is enshrined in Vatican II's Lumen gentium, of course, but those paragraphs aren't generally read by liberals.]

Although CL members are comfortable in the modern, technological and political world, they reject the modern insistence on “a freedom of conscience that excludes the religious attitude at its very root.” [...]

Zadra concludes that “the political rhetoric and vision of the movement seem to continue a long-standing political position in the Catholic world — that of returning the Roman Catholic Church to its traditional role of political power.

My [Jamie's] purpose in exploring CL is not to demonize the movement or the new pope, but rather to piece together a fuller picture of Francis by exploring in a little more depth an organization with which he has an enduring relationship. ["Not to demonize", eh?]

[...]

Manson’s piece is a foretaste of what is to come.

Liberals are all gushy and gooey about Pope Francis right now. Gosh, he’s the Pope of the poor! That means he is going to dismantle everything that John Paul II and Benedict XVI did, those meanies. They somehow manage to imagine that not putting on a mozzetta is the moral equivalent of donning sack cloth and a piece of twine as a belt. Wearing black shoes is the equivalent of wearing tattered sandals. Just like St. Francis of Assisi, right? He’s going to ratchet down all the high liturgy. How wonderful after these horrible years of gold and lace. Hopefully he’ll soon just wear a little wooden cross around his neck and maybe say Mass on a card-table set up in the middle of the Via della Conciliazione. Then he’ll walk down the Tiber River to the card-board box he sleeps in under the Milvian Bridge.

Nope. Pretty soon they are going to see that Pope Francis is hard core when it comes to Catholic teachings. They will become more and more afraid of him as his warm style, yes simpler style, begins to win people over.

Right now Francis is the Pope of El Pueblo. And since NSR is the Voz del Pueblo they are swooning for him… now.

But they will turn on him.

NSR‘s Jamie is out ahead of the pack.



TOPICS: Catholic; Current Events; Moral Issues; Religion & Culture
KEYWORDS: argentina; conclave; popefrancis; romancatholicism
NOTE: Fr. Z's commenta are bolded text.
1 posted on 03/17/2013 11:37:37 AM PDT by NYer
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To: netmilsmom; thefrankbaum; Tax-chick; GregB; saradippity; Berlin_Freeper; Litany; SumProVita; ...

Ping!


2 posted on 03/17/2013 11:37:58 AM PDT by NYer (Beware the man of a single book - St. Thomas Aquinas)
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To: NYer

Thought they had already.


3 posted on 03/17/2013 11:47:07 AM PDT by RIghtwardHo
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To: NYer

Again, in the minds of the left the pope can’t be a catholic. If he’s not one of them....then he is the enemy


4 posted on 03/17/2013 11:49:11 AM PDT by Ouderkirk (Obama has turned America into an aristocracy of the unaccomplished.)
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To: RIghtwardHo

All I’ve heard from the media is that the Pope better change things or else....


5 posted on 03/17/2013 11:51:06 AM PDT by Sacajaweau
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To: NYer
Yeah, the libs started the attacks about Bergoglio consorting with the junta as soon as he was announced. Didn't matter that someone with Amnesty International had long ago pronounced this accusation as false and ludicrous.

Sounds as thought the libs are going to give Communio e Liberazione the Opus Dei treatment. I figured the Reporter would dislike him simply for his ideas on the issues of homosexuality, abortion, celibacy for priests and the notion of the ordination of women to the priesthood; the usual suspects.

6 posted on 03/17/2013 11:56:50 AM PDT by SuziQ
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To: NYer

Who cares what liberals think, they don’t believe in God and hate all religions(except Islam of course)..the fact that they hate the Pope should be a good thing


7 posted on 03/17/2013 12:02:44 PM PDT by Sarah Barracuda
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To: NYer; zot

shall we call these folks “catholics in name only?” Or is that a “too strong” identification for their interpretation of Roman Catholicism?


8 posted on 03/17/2013 12:11:10 PM PDT by GreyFriar (Spearhead - 3rd Armored Division 75-78 & 83-87)
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Why are fools waiting for some pope to declare abortion and homosexuality ok? No pope is going to be judging anything on Judgement Day. Go by the word of God or don’t waste your time.


9 posted on 03/17/2013 12:14:40 PM PDT by Hayride
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Comment #10 Removed by Moderator

To: NYer

I’ll be a lot more concerned if the DON’T turn on him. If he’s doing his job the world should hate him.


11 posted on 03/17/2013 12:38:40 PM PDT by circlecity
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To: RIghtwardHo
Thought they had already.

Yes. It's called the mainstream media.

The first word out of their mouths the other night was how this Pope does not represent their views on abortion and women in the church

So form the American Catholic Church with your own dogma and go the Hell away. 1 billion Catholics won't miss you

12 posted on 03/17/2013 12:45:01 PM PDT by llevrok (Keep your arms out. It makes it harder for them to throw a net over you.)
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To: RIghtwardHo
Thought they had already.

Ditto. The MSM gave him a 24 hour break than BAM, they brought out every evil, gossip, slanderous, made-up nonsense they could find.

Why would a believing Catholic even listen to the MSM and follow what they say? vote for whom they say? believe them to be the truth?

13 posted on 03/17/2013 12:55:01 PM PDT by madison10
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To: NYer

The resignation of Pope Benedict and the election of Pope Francis captured world attention away from their hero -POTUS.

This too shall pass. We will not hear or read another word about Pope Francis.

Easter - The WH egg roll.
Christmas - Michelle’s Holiday Tree


14 posted on 03/17/2013 12:55:34 PM PDT by sodpoodle (Life is prickly - carry tweezers.)
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To: Ouderkirk

If the Pope turned out be pro-fag, pro-abortion, pro-higher taxes on the rich, then liberals will be lining up to drool all over him.


15 posted on 03/17/2013 1:05:16 PM PDT by max americana (Make the world a better place by punching a liberal in the face)
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To: max americana

Typical for the leftards if you don’t think like them they will not give you a moments peace. They simply cannot leave people alone. You must be brought to heel. You must think like they think, do as they do, do as they demand.


16 posted on 03/17/2013 1:29:21 PM PDT by Ouderkirk (Obama has turned America into an aristocracy of the unaccomplished.)
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To: NYer

Many will not like having a Christian Pope.


17 posted on 03/17/2013 1:38:23 PM PDT by NoLibZone (We have the nation we deserve.I predict FR will hate GOP Candidate for 2016,2020,2024,2028, 2032...)
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To: max americana
>> If the Pope turned out be pro-fag, pro-abortion, pro-higher taxes on the rich, then liberals will be lining up to drool all over him. <<

Or if he was non-Christian. The Dalai Lama says homosexuality is improper conduct and abortion is murder, and liberals love him. Ditto with Islamic leaders.

18 posted on 03/17/2013 2:18:52 PM PDT by BillyBoy ( Impeach Obama? Yes We Can!)
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To: GreyFriar

catholish


19 posted on 03/17/2013 2:26:06 PM PDT by mathurine
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To: NYer

I’ve decided what I really like about the Catholic Church: it doesn’t seek consensus. It doesn’t aim to please, seek out opinions of constituencies and make a mush of it all. It is what it ism take it or leave it. It is at its core what it was the day any of us was born and it will be what it is the day each of us dies.


20 posted on 03/17/2013 2:33:48 PM PDT by EDINVA
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To: BillyBoy
The Dalai Lama says homosexuality is improper conduct and abortion is murder, and liberals love him. Ditto with Islamic leaders.

When the DL says this, they don't think he really means it, any more than they thought Obama really meant it when he opposed same-sex marriage--they were correct concerning Obama, and since the DL doesn't have any political power in the US, they aren't concerned with the DL's prohibition. Pope Francis is different, because the Catholic Church is still perceived as having some political pull in the US.

21 posted on 03/17/2013 2:41:11 PM PDT by chajin ("There is no other name under heaven given among people by which we must be saved." Acts 4:12)
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To: mathurine
catholish That is very good, thanks.
22 posted on 03/17/2013 2:42:18 PM PDT by annalex (fear them not)
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To: EDINVA
I’ve decided what I really like about the Catholic Church: it doesn’t seek consensus. It doesn’t aim to please, seek out opinions of constituencies and make a mush of it all. It is what it ism take it or leave it. It is at its core what it was the day any of us was born and it will be what it is the day each of us dies.

Post of the day!! Thank you so very much.


The Catholic Church

Remarkably, the Catholic Church breathes with two lungs and respects its treasury of ancient churches and rites, open to ALL Catholics.

23 posted on 03/17/2013 2:50:40 PM PDT by NYer (Beware the man of a single book - St. Thomas Aquinas)
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To: chajin
They're wrong if they don't think the Dalai Lama really means it. I think he's sincerely representing his school of Buddhism, as opposed to Obama making a politically calculated move.

They are correct, however, that the Dalai Lama has very little pull inside the U.S. There are a number of Americans who describe their religious beliefs as "Buddhist" in order to be hip and trendy, but I doubt they really follow or deeply understand traditional Buddhism. More likely they just like to toss around the label, have an excuse to do yoga classes, and claim to be spiritual without having to accept God or religious dogmas.

It would be interesting to see how liberal American "Buddhists" who profess to be followers of the Dalai Lama (Richard Gere, etc.) would react if they were ever confronted with the Dalai Lama's beliefs on abortion and homosexuality, and asked whether or not they accept it.

24 posted on 03/17/2013 2:53:39 PM PDT by BillyBoy ( Impeach Obama? Yes We Can!)
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To: NYer
>> Remarkably, the Catholic Church breathes with two lungs <<

Not the current Pope, he breathes with one lung. ;-)

25 posted on 03/17/2013 2:58:19 PM PDT by BillyBoy ( Impeach Obama? Yes We Can!)
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To: GreyFriar
shall we call these folks “catholics in name only?” Or is that a “too strong” identification for their interpretation of Roman Catholicism?

There are a lot of CINO's, and I think many of them will hate this Pope.

26 posted on 03/17/2013 4:53:23 PM PDT by zot
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To: RIghtwardHo

Many had already written positive stories (especially the libs at the Baltimore Sun)before his comments on homosexuals and abortion came out. They saw that he was a Jesuit from South America who made the poor a priority and automatically assumed he was a liberal. They are now realizing the mistake and are freaking out.


27 posted on 03/17/2013 4:57:53 PM PDT by icwhatudo (Low taxes and less spending in Sodom and Gomorrah is not my idea of a conservative victory)
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To: NYer

they already did, on his second day by aligning him with the junta and stating that he didn’t do enough when a jesuit priest was kidnapped.


28 posted on 03/17/2013 7:05:33 PM PDT by Coleus
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To: NYer
Liberals will soon turn on Pope Francis
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29 posted on 03/22/2013 8:37:19 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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