Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Is Pope Francis a fraud? (That didn't take long)
Salon ^ | March 16, 2013 | Andrew O'Hehir

Posted on 03/17/2013 9:59:05 PM PDT by 2ndDivisionVet

It’s easy — maybe too easy — for people with progressive political views to dismiss the Roman Catholic Church as a vile anachronism, a nightmarish patriarchy of aging pedophiles, woman-haters, homophobes and/or closet cases that can offer nothing of value to the contemporary world. When it comes to the church hierarchy, and especially the Roman Curia, the corrupt and labyrinthine Vatican bureaucracy that makes the Soviet-era Kremlin look like a model of transparency, that point of view seems more than justified.

But the church is not just the hierarchy, and as the spectacle of the last several days has demonstrated, there are millions or billions of people around the world — Catholics and non-Catholics alike — who wish the newly elected Pope Francis well and yearn to see in him the possibility of hope and renewal for this ancient, powerful and heavily tarnished institution that claims direct succession from the apostles of Jesus. As the first Latin American pope and the first Jesuit pope, Francis represents a break with tradition in several ways. Both the name he has chosen and his personal modesty and humility are meant to recall St. Francis of Assisi, one of the most adored figures in the Christian tradition, and no doubt also St. Francis de Sales, a 17th-century mystic, author and ascetic known for his devotion to the poor.

But the former Cardinal Jorge Mario Bergoglio emerges from a Jesuit order that has been largely purged of its independent-minded or left-leaning intellectuals, and his reputation at home in Latin America is decidedly mixed. While Francis seems to be an appealing personality in some ways — albeit one with a shadowy relationship with the former military dictatorship in Argentina, along with a record on gay rights that borders on hate speech.....

(Excerpt) Read more at salon.com ...


TOPICS: Catholic; General Discusssion; History; Religion & Culture; Religion & Politics
KEYWORDS: catholic; catholics; francis; homosexualagenda; jesuits; pope; popefrancis; vatican
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-5051-98 last
To: verga

Those politicians are democrats, the Catholic party, the party that Catholics have always preferred over a 150 years of history.

If you want a Christian denomination that produces pro-life voters, the Catholic church isn’t it.


51 posted on 03/18/2013 5:27:33 PM PDT by ansel12 (" I would not be in the United States Senate if it wasn’t for Sarah Palin " Cruz said.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 50 | View Replies]

To: ansel12
If you want a Christian denomination that produces pro-life voters, the Catholic church isn’t it.

Then the exact same thing can be said of ALMOST every protestant denomination.

How many African American pastors said that they would tell congregations to vote against Obozo over the issues of gay marriage and HHS mandates and yet race trumped faith.

52 posted on 03/19/2013 2:37:30 AM PDT by verga (A nation divided by Zero!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 51 | View Replies]

To: 2ndDivisionVet

“...Bergoglio emerges from a Jesuit order that has been largely purged of its independent-minded or left-leaning intellectuals...”

Now we know they are out of touch with reality. The Jesuit order, with the exception of maybe a dozen priests, is NOTHING BUT independent-minded AND left-leaning (pseudo)-intellectuals, not to mention active homosexuals.


53 posted on 03/19/2013 3:08:58 AM PDT by baa39 (amdg)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: verga

Why would pro lifers fight to pretend that Catholics are not the back bone of the religious left voters? Does anyone care that the pro-abortion democrats can count on the Catholic vote in almost every election and that the left is counting on it to deliver up America and to once and for all defeat Christian America, that Texas is next on the plate for the Catholic vote to take out, which means the end of pro-life chances in presidential politics?

Since collectively the Protestant vote is pro-life and republican, and has only voted democrat 3 times, twice in the 1930s and once in the 1960s, we know that the Protestant vote vote collectively is still voting for life and conservatism, regardless of how individual denominations vote.

The largest Christian denomination is Catholic and they vote majority pro-abortion, the second largest is Southern baptist and they vote 80% or more pro-life, when all Protestants of all stripes, black, Episcopalian and everything are collectively counted after EVERY election, it still totals up to collectively going republican.

Since we are importing Catholic voters by the millions we know that life and marriage and conservatism is doomed in America, do Catholic Hispanics become more conservative and pro-life when they become Protestants? of course, but that won’t happen frequently enough to save us.

Do you care about defeating abortion and homosexuality and liberalism in politics, do you think that it helps or hurts for conservatives to learn how Catholics vote as they weigh immigration and efforts to reach out and win support for conservatism?

Why would anyone want to conceal such a thing anyway, not only conceal, but pretend the total opposite, continue spreading a permanent myth. That is an anti-life agenda.


54 posted on 03/19/2013 9:13:17 AM PDT by ansel12 (" I would not be in the United States Senate if it wasn’t for Sarah Palin " Cruz said.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 52 | View Replies]

To: ansel12

You have thrown out a lot of numbers, I am not saying they are wrong, but I want to see your source.


55 posted on 03/19/2013 1:48:36 PM PDT by verga (A nation divided by Zero!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 54 | View Replies]

To: ansel12
One other thing, Limbaugh made a point today that quite a few Hispanics vote Democrat due to the immigration issue.
56 posted on 03/19/2013 1:49:57 PM PDT by verga (A nation divided by Zero!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 54 | View Replies]

To: Pontiac

I would prefer to state/believe that anyone can question not just theologians. However, not every question is subject to revision from the truth for answer to the question. There has been much revision as to the Bible’s truth.


57 posted on 03/19/2013 2:26:22 PM PDT by noinfringers2
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 21 | View Replies]

To: verga

Source for what specifically? Surely not that Catholics vote democrat?


58 posted on 03/19/2013 3:05:59 PM PDT by ansel12 (" I would not be in the United States Senate if it wasn’t for Sarah Palin " Cruz said.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 55 | View Replies]

To: noinfringers2

Certainly you can question the opinions of theologians they are not infallible. But the Bible is infallible. There are rare exceptions where it can be found that a translation is incorrect. These errors even more rarely lead to a substantial difference in the meaning of the passage.


59 posted on 03/19/2013 3:33:11 PM PDT by Pontiac (The welfare state must fail because it is contrary to human nature and diminishes the human spirit.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 57 | View Replies]

To: ansel12
Source for what specifically? Surely not that Catholics vote democrat?

ALL of the numbers you cited. Thank you.

60 posted on 03/19/2013 4:07:36 PM PDT by verga (A nation divided by Zero!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 58 | View Replies]

To: verga

No, it isn’t my place to walk you through kindergarten, or follow you through a game playing routine.
When someone here, on a thread like this, indicates that they don’t even know how Catholics vote, it doesn’t usually mean that they honestly need to learn the figures for the first time in their life.


61 posted on 03/19/2013 4:37:17 PM PDT by ansel12 (" I would not be in the United States Senate if it wasn’t for Sarah Palin " Cruz said.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 60 | View Replies]

To: ansel12
How many psychiatrists does it take to change a light bulb?

Only one. But it takes a long time, costs a lot of money, and the light bulb has to want to change.

62 posted on 03/19/2013 5:01:08 PM PDT by BlueDragon (If you want vision open your eyes and see you can carry the light with you wherever you go)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 61 | View Replies]

To: BlueDragon

Do you need someone to show you for the first time, how Catholics vote, or are you already aware of the Catholic vote?


63 posted on 03/19/2013 5:08:47 PM PDT by ansel12 (" I would not be in the United States Senate if it wasn’t for Sarah Palin " Cruz said.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 62 | View Replies]

To: ansel12

I said ALL I didn’t say just Catholic. You can’t ciote a source then i will giv e it all the consideration it deserves, Not one D@MN bit. Liberals throw out numbers Conservatives cite sources.


64 posted on 03/19/2013 5:23:01 PM PDT by verga (A nation divided by Zero!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 61 | View Replies]

To: verga

What number that I posted are you finding fault with?


65 posted on 03/19/2013 5:27:43 PM PDT by ansel12 (" I would not be in the United States Senate if it wasn’t for Sarah Palin " Cruz said.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 64 | View Replies]

To: ansel12

I simply asked for sources to verify them, if you don’t want to or can’t cite a source that is fine i have told you my position. The fact that you are stalling instead of citing tells me quite a bit.


66 posted on 03/19/2013 6:34:31 PM PDT by verga (A nation divided by Zero!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 65 | View Replies]

To: verga
The fact that you are stalling instead of citing tells me quite a bit.

What have you "cited"? Anything? Should that tell everyone "a lot"?

The other poster has, more than any freeper around, previously brought the sort of statistics which he is discussing. Did you know that? It went on for weeks after the last election. Thread after thread the subject matter would arise. Did you really miss all of that?

67 posted on 03/19/2013 8:25:22 PM PDT by BlueDragon (If you want vision open your eyes and see you can carry the light with you wherever you go)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 66 | View Replies]

To: verga

What number that I posted are you finding fault with?

Do you really need someone to post the Catholic vote for say, Obama? You don’t know that the Catholic vote went for Obama in both elections? What “number” specifically?


68 posted on 03/19/2013 8:34:47 PM PDT by ansel12 (" I would not be in the United States Senate if it wasn’t for Sarah Palin " Cruz said.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 66 | View Replies]

To: ansel12

Yes we know that Protestants vote overwhelmingly for democrats thank you.


69 posted on 03/20/2013 2:22:26 AM PDT by verga (A nation divided by Zero!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 68 | View Replies]

To: Lou Budvis
Whenever I ask why the RCC won't take its authority after the profoundly evil, cruel Sibelius and Pelosi (both Catholics, neither is forbidden the altar), I get told that Popes are too busy for that sort of thing, that's the bishop's deal, that's local or something. I remember my shock when Obama was honored at Notre Dame, he who is probably the most vicious antilife politician in American history.

I know individual American Catholics who work hard for life, I just don't see the RCC giving them much backup. Was Pelosi cherished when she visited Frances? All the opportunities to discipline these people. I just don't understand the point of it when we get to see the likes of Ted Kennedy and Katherine Sibelius coddled by popes and bishops.

70 posted on 03/20/2013 2:28:24 AM PDT by Mamzelle
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: verga
Yes we know that Protestants vote overwhelmingly for democrats thank you.

And where is the citation for that? You make the claim, do as you would have another do perhaps?

"We know" no such things. The only way the above statment could be made to work would need define "protestants" as any and everyone not RC, or to define them as only their most liberal wings, while also in either instance lumping in the athiest left, whom are not "protestant" at all.

That sort of thing, would be subject to special pleadings sort of thing (making the argument specious) much as the statistics which show RC'er's voting Dem Party more consistently than not, is argued against by Trad Cats with a "those people are not really [Roman] Catholic denial/justification.

For those of us paying attention, we've seen all that ground well enough covered on these pages before.

Otherwise, the much vilified "christian right wing" has not been dominated by Rc'ers, but more like Baptists and other bible-based fundamentalist sorts.

71 posted on 03/20/2013 12:15:19 PM PDT by BlueDragon (If you want vision open your eyes and see you can carry the light with you wherever you go)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 69 | View Replies]

To: verga
Yes we know that Protestants vote overwhelmingly for democrats thank you.

Who knows why you would post such nonsense.

The democrats have only won the Protestant vote in 1932, 1936, and 1964. If Protestants decided elections, then America would never elect democrat presidents.

72 posted on 03/20/2013 12:37:02 PM PDT by ansel12 (" I would not be in the United States Senate if it wasn’t for Sarah Palin " Cruz said.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 69 | View Replies]

To: verga
Individuals may but the Church itself does not.

Wow. What a cop-out. But I guess it is the only fig leaf left to you (y'all), which would be why you wear it...

73 posted on 03/20/2013 1:18:58 PM PDT by roamer_1 (Globalism is just socialism in a business suit.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 34 | View Replies]

To: ansel12; BlueDragon
And where is the citation for that? You make the claim, do as you would have another do perhaps?

Why I am using the exact same citations that I asked ansell2 for. You can read them in all those posts upthread. Oh that's right he never did supply them.

Who knows why you would post such nonsense. I very politely asked you to supply references for your claims. I requested in post #54 You have thrown out a lot of numbers, I am not saying they are wrong, but I want to see your source.

I was mainly interested in the Protestant numbers but you got all P!$$Y in posts 58 and 61.

In education and research people want to see references and citations. In criminal cases juries want to see evidence. I am simply asking for your sources. In my experience there are only two reasons why people refuse to supply documentation: 1) No such documentation exists.

2) The documentation doesn't say exactly what they claim it does.

The ball is in your court.

74 posted on 03/20/2013 3:41:14 PM PDT by verga (A nation divided by Zero!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 72 | View Replies]

To: roamer_1
Wow. What a cop-out. But I guess it is the only fig leaf left to you (y'all), which would be why you wear it...

Shhhhh the adults are trying to have a conversation. Go outside and play and we will let you know when you can come in.

75 posted on 03/20/2013 3:42:34 PM PDT by verga (A nation divided by Zero!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 73 | View Replies]

To: verga

You gave the impression that your first quote in that post was from me, it wasn’t, you were quoting another poster.

What number that I posted are you finding fault with? I keep asking you for a specific but you won’t give one.


76 posted on 03/20/2013 4:00:14 PM PDT by ansel12 (" I would not be in the United States Senate if it wasn’t for Sarah Palin " Cruz said.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 74 | View Replies]

To: verga

Why would pro lifers fight to pretend that Catholics are not the back bone of the religious left voters? Does anyone care that the pro-abortion democrats can count on the Catholic vote in almost every election and that the left is counting on it to deliver up America and to once and for all defeat Christian America, that Texas is next on the plate for the Catholic vote to take out, which means the end of pro-life chances in presidential politics?

Since collectively the Protestant vote is pro-life and republican, and has only voted democrat 3 times, twice in the 1930s and once in the 1960s, we know that the Protestant vote vote collectively is still voting for life and conservatism, regardless of how individual denominations vote.

The largest Christian denomination is Catholic and they vote majority pro-abortion, the second largest is Southern baptist and they vote 80% or more pro-life, when all Protestants of all stripes, black, Episcopalian and everything are collectively counted after EVERY election, it still totals up to collectively going republican.

Since we are importing Catholic voters by the millions we know that life and marriage and conservatism is doomed in America, do Catholic Hispanics become more conservative and pro-life when they become Protestants? of course, but that won’t happen frequently enough to save us.

Do you care about defeating abortion and homosexuality and liberalism in politics, do you think that it helps or hurts for conservatives to learn how Catholics vote as they weigh immigration and efforts to reach out and win support for conservatism?

Why would anyone want to conceal such a thing anyway, not only conceal, but pretend the total opposite, continue spreading a permanent myth. That is an anti-life agenda.


77 posted on 03/20/2013 4:17:29 PM PDT by ansel12 (" I would not be in the United States Senate if it wasn’t for Sarah Palin " Cruz said.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 74 | View Replies]

To: ansel12

I am sorry protestants are just to intellectually dishonest to deal with. I am going to do something more productive such as bang my head against the wall. Feel free to have the last word


78 posted on 03/20/2013 5:12:36 PM PDT by verga (A nation divided by Zero!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 77 | View Replies]

To: verga

Why not just just tell me what number that I posted that you are finding fault with?

If you are honest and want a source to verify it, why not try that, I can’t read your mind though.

Well, actually your posts are transparent enough that reading your mind is easy in regards to this topic of Catholics and voting for abortion.


79 posted on 03/20/2013 5:44:47 PM PDT by ansel12 (" I would not be in the United States Senate if it wasn’t for Sarah Palin " Cruz said.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 78 | View Replies]

To: verga
Shhhhh the adults are trying to have a conversation.

Exactly the sort of condescension one would expect from one who declares their church or denomination to be without spot or flaw in spite of glaring evidence to the contrary. Careful now... The Pharisees thought precisely the same thing.

80 posted on 03/20/2013 5:57:45 PM PDT by roamer_1 (Globalism is just socialism in a business suit.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 75 | View Replies]

To: verga
Oh that's right he never did supply them.

In several dozen other threads (at least) he most assuredly has. Doing so in threads where such evidences weren't exactly germane to the rest of the conversation, at times. Using the statistics like a bludgeon even...I guess you missed all of that.

Yes we know that Protestants vote overwhelmingly for democrats thank you.

Again, do you have a source for that? There is persistence in demanding citation from the other, but unwillingness to carry a similar burden yourself for the above quoted claim. I see too, that none others are coming to the rescue in regards to that narrow claim. I suggest it is because it can't be done, other than under specious conditions, at best.

Yet there is some pretense towards yet another (who has generally been making sense) that they themselves be childish. Such examples and argumentative behavior is # 27,347 on the list of reasons I find no special charism of "righteousness" within the ranks of the RCC, as compared to other Christian associations [generally].

It's like sleeping in a garage, makes no one into a car... but nevermind my own personal level of underwhelmed-ness concerning such matters, here's a link from a source perhaps friendly to you;

Here's where much that can be found concerning polling data sorted by religious affiliation (for better or worse) can I believe, be traced back to; http://www.pewforum.org/Politics-and-Elections/How-the-Faithful-Voted-2012-Preliminary-Exit-Poll-Analysis.aspx

From the above table, it can be seen that twice, Obama carried the so-called "Catholic vote", if there is any such thing...
Which makes me a bit wrong upthread, from going by memory, I mistakenly thought Romney had gotten 54% of the RC vote. I was wrong. It looks more like 50%. Perhaps my memory was affected by some of the denialists spin miesters around here?

When the numbers (in other polling data) separate out those whom attend church frequently, there is a resulting voting pattern breaking towards conservatives (or their approximation/stand-ins, like Romney).

But LOOK at the chart. What do you see for the "born again, Evangelical" vote? Nearly 80%

Even full coverage "protestant" numbers, show that weird " Yes we know that Protestants vote overwhelmingly for democrats thank you." to be quite wrong, though you were previously somewhat correct concerning Hispanic Catholics going over to Democrats in much greater numbers.

I am sorry protestants far too many Catholics around here are just too intellectually dishonest to deal with. I am going to do something more productive such as bang my head against the wall. Feel free to have the last word

81 posted on 03/20/2013 10:01:59 PM PDT by BlueDragon (If you want vision open your eyes and see you can carry the light with you wherever you go)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 74 | View Replies]

To: BlueDragon
In several dozen other threads (at least) he most assuredly has. Doing so in threads where such evidences weren't exactly germane to the rest of the conversation, at times. Using the statistics like a bludgeon even...I guess you missed all of that.

Gee I am sorry I don't have time to read every single post on every single thread. But thank you for posting the information.

82 posted on 03/21/2013 2:18:53 AM PDT by verga (A nation divided by Zero!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 81 | View Replies]

To: verga

It is the Hispanic Catholics who vote Democrat, the non-hispanic white Catholics vote significantly more Republican.


83 posted on 03/21/2013 2:35:08 AM PDT by Smokin' Joe (How often God must weep at humans' folly. Stand fast. God knows what He is doing)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 56 | View Replies]

To: BlueDragon
Even full coverage "protestant" numbers, show that weird " Yes we know that Protestants vote overwhelmingly for democrats thank you." to be quite wrong,

Unless we are talking about Black Protestants, which indicates maybe something other than religion is at play here.

White Catholics voted consistently Republican, Hispanic Catholics did not.

For some, the "gimmie" will take precedence every time.

84 posted on 03/21/2013 2:41:05 AM PDT by Smokin' Joe (How often God must weep at humans' folly. Stand fast. God knows what He is doing)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 81 | View Replies]

To: Smokin' Joe; BlueDragon
It is the Hispanic Catholics who vote Democrat, the non-hispanic white Catholics vote significantly more Republican.

My thought / belief is that would be due to the immigration issue.

85 posted on 03/21/2013 4:58:39 AM PDT by verga (A nation divided by Zero!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 83 | View Replies]

To: Smokin' Joe
Yes,I knew exactly what a few here would focus comment upon when I brought that chart...some things are predictable.

Unless we are talking about Black Protestants, which indicates maybe something other than religion is at play here.

Yes, the Democrats have long been winning the black vote. In the last two presidental cycles, even at greater percentage than usual. Somehow, they must be brought around to cinsider just what they are so fully aligning themselves with---the hard left athiests!

Maybe something more than religion at play--ok. But how do we explain or understand the major lag between the "white Catholic" vote and the "born again Evangelical" vote?

Are the born agains just a bunch of big business/corporation promoting racist (even as Obama and Co. are proving themselves crony capatalists while advocating socialism/communism for the masses, which the maases get to be taxed to pay for) but the "white Catholics" are what -- "more balanced" or something? That vote is split near to the middle, with some greater numbers going against Obama in this last elction cycle compared to previously. Did some of them finally wake up? At least nobody can much simply call them "racist" as the TeaParty is?

86 posted on 03/21/2013 7:59:09 AM PDT by BlueDragon (If you want vision open your eyes and see you can carry the light with you wherever you go)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 84 | View Replies]

To: verga
My thought / belief is that would be due to the immigration issue.

Such genius! Who would have thunk it?

Now what of the rest? I'll settle for not seeing the same baseless claims come around again. THEN maybe some further discussion can take place...with some around here on FR (not necessarily myself) able to offer some insight, and/or suggestions of how conservatism as an idea may be better promoted.

87 posted on 03/21/2013 8:05:02 AM PDT by BlueDragon (the beatings will continue until morale improves)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 85 | View Replies]

To: BlueDragon
I'll settle for not seeing the same baseless claims come around again.

How many times do I have to politely ask for a source? I clearly said I was not disagreeing with the numbers I just wanted to see the source. Is that really to much to ask?

88 posted on 03/21/2013 8:18:57 AM PDT by verga (A nation divided by Zero!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 87 | View Replies]

Comment #89 Removed by Moderator

To: Smokin' Joe; BlueDragon
Very good. Let us see some examples of how the Irish (and the Italians, and the Poles and the...) Catholics were treated by the NorthEast establishment (nominally Republican at the time).

Although there may be some truth in this:


90 posted on 03/21/2013 9:17:20 AM PDT by MarkBsnr (I would not believe in the Gospel, if the authority of the Catholic Church did not move me to do so.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 89 | View Replies]

Unions. Irish Catholics whose ancestors came here, were treated as bad or worse than blacks, who got the most dangerous [lousy] jobs because a slave was too valuable to risk, and whose families have been teamsters and longshoremen and coal miners since.

There's some truth to that. But at risk of ignoring that other "poor whites" received much the same treatment, long after slavery was ended, by which I mean, a Baptist or Congregationalist sort faced very much the same hazards.

Somehow...the Baptists didn't end up the slaves of labor unions. Were they naturally or genetically "smarter"? I'd say that is highly doubtful. But there must be something of what they were taught in their own religious traditions which has led them to more strenuosly object to the machinations of the radical left (who have long been leveraging pro labor union sentiments).

91 posted on 03/21/2013 9:52:06 AM PDT by BlueDragon (the beatings will continue until morale improves)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: MarkBsnr
So that particular gin-joint didn't want any Irish paper-hangers. Maybe they could just go paper Irish bars, instead.

Besides, the balance was to be paid in whiskey. It may have been in part, sound business decision to exclude Irishmen. *^)

92 posted on 03/21/2013 10:01:46 AM PDT by BlueDragon (the beatings will continue until morale improves)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 90 | View Replies]

To: BlueDragon

There weren’t any Irish bars at that point - the immigration had just begun. You may wish to Google up Thomas Nast’s antiCatholic cartoons from the 1800s in order to view the level of antiCatholicism at that point.


93 posted on 03/21/2013 10:49:00 AM PDT by MarkBsnr (I would not believe in the Gospel, if the authority of the Catholic Church did not move me to do so.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 92 | View Replies]

To: BlueDragon
Somehow...the Baptists didn't end up the slaves of labor unions. Were they naturally or genetically "smarter"? I'd say that is highly doubtful. But there must be something of what they were taught in their own religious traditions which has led them to more strenuosly object to the machinations of the radical left (who have long been leveraging pro labor union sentiments).

A lot of Baptists were killed during colonial and post colonial days, but most of them were driven out - it was the NE Catholics and the Quakers that took the brunt of Republican Reformist anger. The Baptists went South and established plantations (along with the firm establishment of the slave trade in the US). Where were the Irish to go?

It wasn't the Irish who rejected the Republican Party. It was the Republican Party who rejected the immigrant Catholics of the late 1800s. It takes generations to erase that sort of rejection. For example, look at the Serbs and the Croats - brothers, really, but bitter enemies.

94 posted on 03/21/2013 10:54:43 AM PDT by MarkBsnr (I would not believe in the Gospel, if the authority of the Catholic Church did not move me to do so.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 91 | View Replies]

To: BlueDragon
Somehow...the Baptists didn't end up the slaves of labor unions. Were they naturally or genetically "smarter"? I'd say that is highly doubtful. But there must be something of what they were taught in their own religious traditions which has led them to more strenuosly object to the machinations of the radical left (who have long been leveraging pro labor union sentiments). How much of this was due to location. You tended to find Irish, Italians, and Poles in the North east which was where the industrial center was located. Baptists were/are found more in the south in the Bible belt agrarian area.
95 posted on 03/21/2013 11:27:11 AM PDT by verga (A nation divided by Zero!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 91 | View Replies]

To: MarkBsnr
You make it sound like only Republicans (the party of Lincoln) had anti-Irish prejudices. White Southerners for a long time...voted Democrat.

So I'm sorry sir, but that particular sort of short-hand historical portrayal which you seem to be bringing here as accurate, is too much over-simplification and blend of misidentification (leaving Republicans holding the bag) that is part & parcel of the impossibly screwed-up worldview of today's American liberals, which they both promote and further distort.

96 posted on 03/21/2013 11:54:27 AM PDT by BlueDragon (the beatings will continue until morale improves)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 94 | View Replies]

To: BlueDragon

Look it up. You don’t have to believe me.

Just consider this: the Irish largely immigrated to the cities, where there was at least the chance of work, which was important given the artificially constructed potato famine and the routine elimination of Irish from their age-old farms.

Now, a lot of Irish wound up in the hills, driven to subsistance living, following the Appalachians around to Tennessee, where there was no population pressure.

Back to the issue of antiCatholic prejudice - well - Google is your friend, if you would reject my thesis.


97 posted on 03/21/2013 12:12:22 PM PDT by MarkBsnr (I would not believe in the Gospel, if the authority of the Catholic Church did not move me to do so.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 96 | View Replies]

To: 2ndDivisionVet
Is Pope Francis a fraud? (That didn't take long)
Faith Of Our Fathers (Prayers in Song for Pope Francis) [Catholic Caucus]
Fatima Shrine recalls Pope Francis' sponsorship of the Pilgrim Image of the Virgin of Fatima
A great story of Jorge Bergoglio and a poor widow who wanted her children baptized
Former SSPX seminarian constant companion of Pope Francis
Cardinal Jorge Mario Bergoglio's "Letter On the Year of Faith" (Crossing Threshold of Faith)
Pope Francis takes over Vatican's top secret dossiers (Fr. Georg tasked with guiding Bergoglio)
THE FULL PAPAL MASS AT SANTA ANNA'S PARISH THIS MORNING (laity kneel to receive)
Liberals will soon turn on Pope Francis
Letter #49: Black Shoes (Curia Officials Reappointed ... But ... only temporarily!)
Opening Wartime Archives? (Pope Francis will open Pope Pius XII - Shoah - WWII-era archives)
Pope Francis Speaks of God’s Mercy at First Sunday Angelus
Weigel thinks Pope Francis embodies Church's future
Oh, we are in deep, deep trouble
Pope explains name, urges 'church for the poor'

Pope Francis' first moves hint at break with past
A Pope of Contradictions
Evangelist Luis Palau: New Pope Francis a Friend of Evangelicals
A Pope for All Christians
Consolation for Boston Catholics? (Pope immediately bans Cardinal Law from St. Mary Major)
Quotes from Cardinal Bergoglio, now Pope Francis, on 7 Moral Issues
Pope to journalists: 'I love you so much and I thank you for everything'
Letter #48: Old Age (Papal Apartments opened, Pope visits local hospital)
Jesuit doorman surprised by Pope's phone call
Pope Francis on mass media and name
Eastern Orthodox Patriarch of Constantinople to Attend Papal Installation Mass
Pope Francis in Motion
Who is Pope Francis? A compilation from many news reports.
"Anyone who does not pray to the Lord prays to the devil." Homily of the Holy Father Pope Francis
Joe Biden and Nancy Pelosi will represent the United States at Pope Francis’ Inaugural Mass
Beijing Cautions New Pope on Meddling in China
For the First Time Since the Great Schism, Ecumenical Patriarch to Attend Pope's Inaugural Mass
Ann Barnhardt on Pope Francis
New Pope snubs Cardinal Law
Pope Francis seen as humble man who can unite, rebuild Church

Pope Francis – the real deal – has Audience with Cardinals
Pope Francis—The Journey Begins
Report: Pope Francis bans disgraced Cardinal Law from his church
Pope tells cardinals: discover new ways to evangelize
Does this pope sound like a liberal to YOU?
Pope Francis could renew Catholicism in Americas, says Knights' chief
Letter #47: To Mary (Pope Francis prays at (tomb of Pope St. Pius V) [Catholic Caucus]
Pope To cardinals: Don't Give In To Devil's "Bitterness" And "Pessimism"
Pope Pays His Hotel Bill
Newly elected Pope knows Ukrainian Catholic Church, its Liturgy & Spirituality (Ecumenical)
'Go and Repair My House'
Why Did Pope Francis Go to St Mary Major?
Argentine priest kidnapped in Dirty War reconciled w/ Pope Francis (Don't blame Pope for Pinochet)
Weigel: "Bergoglio is an Old-School Jesuit, Formed by Classic Ignatian Spirituality..."
Vatican Responds to Accusations About Cardinal Bergoglio and the "Dirty War"
Pope Francis Knows What Must Be Done
Pope Francis tied up in Argentina's 'dirty war' debate
Pope Francis and the Traditional Liturgy
Links of Pope Francis to military dictatorship
Cardinal Bergoglio wrote to Fr. Gruner about Fatima [Catholic Caucus]

Why Pope Francis May Be a Catholic Nightmare [barf alert]
Pope Francis I: It’s All In the Name
Vatican official: Gay marriage a “revolutionary project” for “complete destruction of the family”
Pope Francis, and Blessed Aloysius and Blessed Agnellus: how the saints chose Bergoglio for pope
The Future Pope Francis: Additional Interviews and Writings
Pope Francis – What’s in a Name?
Pope Francis Warns Church Could Become 'Compassionate NGO'
Jesuits Surprised that First of Their Brethren is Elected Pope
World Jewish Congress head praises Pope Francis (Jewish-Catholic ties "best in 2,000 years")
How Summorum Pontificum was blocked and trampled on in Buenos Aires
Slaves of the Immac. Heart of Mary Profess Our Filial Submission to Pope Francis (Catholic Caucus)
Gay Advocacy Groups Rush to Demonize Pope Francis
Traditionalists and Pope Francis: Can We Take a Deep Breath and Please Calm Down?
What I would have said at the Consistory: An interview with Cardinal Jorge Mario Bergoglio
Pope Francis Offers His Second Blessing to Pregnant Mom, Unborn Baby
Cdl. Bergoglio's Lenten Letter, 2013
UPDATE: Rorate Caeli’s diatribe against Pope Francis [Catholic Caucus]
Pope Francis: A Disappointment for Catholics Who Don't Like Being Catholic
Updates on Pope Francis’ first day as Pope – Great moments! (truly humble man)
New Pope Slips Out Of Vatican For morning Prayer Visit

Our First American Pope
Pope Francis I clear on denying Communion to those who facilitate in abortion
Jorge Mario Bergoglio, Profession: Servant of the Servants of God
EDITORIAL:Pope Francis I bridges conservative and progressive currents
New Pope Francis called homosexual ‘marriage’ a ‘machination of the Father of Lies’
Pope Francis Is First Catholic Pontiff From The Americas; He Is Known As A Humble Intellectual
New Pope lived simple life in Argentina
"Lowly, And Yet Chosen," Enter Pope Francis (some phenomenal firsts with this election)
10 Facts about Pope Francis
Vatican Web Site Updated
Full Text of Pope Francis’ Opening Address to Catholic Faithful
9 things you should know about Pope Francis
Pope Francis I promises to be strong pro-life world leader
New Pope celebrated Hanukkah as well as Christmas
New Pope- enemy of Catholic tradition
As Cardinal, Pope Francis condemned abortion even in rape cases
Profile: New pope, Jesuit Bergoglio, was runner-up in 2005 conclave
Jorge Mario Bergoglio elected pope, takes Francis as name
Cardinal Jorge Bergoglio: a Profile
HABEMUS PAPAM!!! (Live Thread)

98 posted on 03/22/2013 8:57:47 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-5051-98 last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson