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Should Protestants Be Allowed To Have An Opinion Regarding The New Pope?
Blogger News Network ^ | March 18th, 2013 | Frederick Meekins

Posted on 03/19/2013 8:59:25 PM PDT by Alex Murphy

It has been suggested that it is a tragedy for Evangelicals to pray and fast regarding the new pope as called for by Rick Warren.

While it might not be an issue worthy of fasting over as it doesn’t look like most of the top contenders to the papal throne have themselves missed too many meals and won’t exactly be living in a state of self denial given their opulent surroundings should they get the job, offering up a quick prayer on the matter won’t hurt.

After all, the individual selected will play a significant role in steering that interpretation of the Christian faith closer towards true Biblical religion or further away into the assorted errors tempting all that call upon the name of the Lord in one fashion or the other.

What is so wrong with a Protestant praying for the selection of at least a level-headed Pope that adheres to the shared commonalities of Christian doctrine and respects the rights of existence and expression of those he disagrees with?

I guess there are those thinking the atrocities committed during the Thirty Years War by both sides were a good thing.

Nothing wins souls to your vision regarding Christ and His message like a good pillaging and the ravishing of a few unwilling maidens.

Some might ask the question why should Protestants, especially those of the lowly Baptist variety, enunciate an opinion as to the selection of a new Pope or elaborate an explanation as to why those of that particular theological perspective find the power and authority that ecclesiastical institution has asserted for itself as extra-Biblical and questionably dangerous.

Catholics have every right to select whomever they desire as their head honcho.

However, because that institution has assumed for itself a role beyond administering its own internal affairs and undertaken efforts to exert an influence on the world beyond its ornately decorated walls, in a free society those not belonging to this religious tradition have just as much right to speak out regarding the direction as to how this powerful world body might influence the way in which individuals are able to live their own lives and practice their own beliefs.

For though the way in which the Roman Catholic Church gets the message across might be more subtle than the way in which some Protestants do so, relying more on ceremony and glitz rather than a blunt in your face letting you know what they feel and believe regarding the issue often in a gruff and tactless manner, the opposition of the leadership to Protestantism is just as ingrained.

For example, Pope Benedict repeatedly emphasized throughout his pontificate that Protestant churches especially were not real churches and at best could only be thought of as errant theological associations.

No big deal, many not practiced in the art of discernment and worldview implication might conclude.

After all, everyone from the Pope down to the raving village atheist thinks the spiritual path they are journeying down is superior to all others.

However, one may need to stop to reflect for a moment what is being said here.

To the Protestant, the ideal that those of this persuasion endeavor to strive for can be found in Romans 10:13: “For whoseover shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.”

By this, it is believed that there is no mediator between God and man other than Christ Himself for those that believe Jesus as the only Begotten Son of God died in our place for our sins and rose from the dead so that those placing their faith solely in Him might have eternal life in Heaven.

However, official institutionalized Catholicism pretty much holds that their’s is the only game in town determining who it is that will be rewarded with the prize or gift of salvation.

This the organization does in part through its system of sacraments.

So what the Church is really saying when it denies communion to all but those on its own membership roles is not so much that we think it’s best if you participate in this solemn event with those that can better attest to the validity of your faith experience or worthiness of character but rather that you aren’t even a fellow Christian at all.

If the new pope has called for a new evangelization effort in areas where Protestantism has made inroads, unless the campaign is confined to targeting those that were previously Catholic with those born into Protestantism or who became Protestant from a non-Catholic orientation off limits, on what grounds do Catholics have to get jacked out of shape when Protestants sweep up disgruntled and easily persuaded Catholics?

One would hope that no one in their right mind would find the violent acrimony of the past where individuals on either side of the divide were often deprived of property, opportunity, and even their very lives all in Christ’s name a worthy situation to return to.

However, neither are Christians obligated to go out of their way refusing to admit that profound religious differences still exist that are better off left in place for the sake of the entire world at least until Christ Himself returns to set hearts and minds straight and to sort out the mess we as fallen human beings have made of this world.


TOPICS: Apologetics; Catholic; Evangelical Christian; Ministry/Outreach
KEYWORDS: catholic
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What is so wrong with a Protestant praying for the selection of at least a level-headed Pope that adheres to the shared commonalities of Christian doctrine and respects the rights of existence and expression of those he disagrees with?...For example, Pope Benedict repeatedly emphasized throughout his pontificate that Protestant churches especially were not real churches and at best could only be thought of as errant theological associations. No big deal, many not practiced in the art of discernment and worldview implication might conclude.

After all, everyone from the Pope down to the raving village atheist thinks the spiritual path they are journeying down is superior to all others. However, one may need to stop to reflect for a moment what is being said here. To the Protestant, the ideal that those of this persuasion endeavor to strive for can be found in Romans 10:13: “For whoseover shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.” By this, it is believed that there is no mediator between God and man other than Christ Himself for those that believe Jesus as the only Begotten Son of God died in our place for our sins and rose from the dead so that those placing their faith solely in Him might have eternal life in Heaven.

However, official institutionalized Catholicism pretty much holds that theirs is the only game in town determining who it is that will be rewarded with the prize or gift of salvation. This the organization does in part through its system of sacraments. So what the Church is really saying when it denies communion to all but those on its own membership roles is not so much that we think it’s best if you participate in this solemn event with those that can better attest to the validity of your faith experience or worthiness of character but rather that you aren’t even a fellow Christian at all....

1 posted on 03/19/2013 8:59:25 PM PDT by Alex Murphy
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To: Alex Murphy

You can speak all you want, but if you aren’t Catholic you have no sway on the Catholic church.

And why should you?
Do the Protestants listen to the Catholics on doctrine?

For the record I am a Baptist.


2 posted on 03/19/2013 9:07:58 PM PDT by mylife (The Roar Of The Masses Could Be Farts)
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To: mylife

So what happens to the Great Commandment of Christ?

“Love one another as I have loved you.”

Just because my name might have the word, Catholic after it or your name might have the word, Baptist after it — does that cancel out Christ’s commandment to love one another?

Don’t we both love God above all things?

Don’t we both try to love our neighbor as ourselves?


3 posted on 03/19/2013 9:12:33 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: Alex Murphy

“So what the Church is really saying when it denies communion to all but those on its own membership roles is not so much that we think it’s best if you participate in this solemn event with those that can better attest to the validity of your faith experience or worthiness of character but rather that you aren’t even a fellow Christian at all.”

I’m not interested in starting a Catholic vs. Protestant debate, as it’s my bed time and I have been sitting in front of the computer way too long today, so I will simply make a hit and run reply. My observation to this is that the author here demonstrates an obvious lack of understanding of Catholic sacramental theology; denial of the Eucharist to non-Catholics is not a statement that they are not Christians. For clarification I would suggest reading from a Catholic website such as Catholic Answers, as I have found in large part that non-Catholic Christians attempting to explain or refute Catholic teachings generally do not adequately understand it themselves. That’s my 2 cents.


4 posted on 03/19/2013 9:17:48 PM PDT by Free and Armed (Playing leap frog with a unicorn and compromising with liberals--both have a similar end result)
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To: Salvation

Of course we strive to live God’s word and will.

All I am saying is that Protestants are hardly likely to garner the ear of the Catholic Church as far as changing doctrine.

Why would Francis listed to the Gay rights crowd and change doctrine to accommodate them?


5 posted on 03/19/2013 9:20:25 PM PDT by mylife (The Roar Of The Masses Could Be Farts)
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To: mylife

I am too a member of the Southern Baptist church. I know I have no input in the Catholic religion, but I do pray the new Pope is a Godly man who stands by conservative doctrine, and serves our Lord Jesus Christ to the very best of his abilities.


6 posted on 03/19/2013 9:21:56 PM PDT by longhorn too
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To: longhorn too

I’m a Plain old Yankee Baptist, but I agree.


7 posted on 03/19/2013 9:23:59 PM PDT by mylife (The Roar Of The Masses Could Be Farts)
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To: Alex Murphy

As a Messianic Jew I think the new Pope is a nice person. His background in Argentina working with the poor puts him among the saints. His actions so far sneaking out to mingle reminds me of the movie staring Anthony Quinn “Shoes Of The Fisherman”.


8 posted on 03/19/2013 9:27:39 PM PDT by SkyDancer (Live your life in such a way that the Westboro church will want to picket your funeral.)
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To: longhorn too

I think that’s a sentiment we can all share, regardless of which side of the aisle we find ourselves. Being a former Southern Baptist turned Catholic, I can safely say that I hold a special place in my heart for all those good ol’ Southern Baptists, who remain my favorite non-Catholic denomination ;-) Alright, I said I was going to bed. Have a good night, everyone.


9 posted on 03/19/2013 9:27:58 PM PDT by Free and Armed (Playing leap frog with a unicorn and compromising with liberals--both have a similar end result)
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To: Free and Armed; Alex Murphy
>> So what the Church is really saying when it denies communion to all but those on its own membership roles <<

This is also an incorrect statement about Catholic doctrine. The Roman Catholic Church does NOT deny communion to everyone but Roman Catholics. For example, an Orthodox Christian in good standing is allowed to receive communion at a Catholic parish (although oddly enough, the reverse is not true)

10 posted on 03/19/2013 9:28:47 PM PDT by BillyBoy ( Impeach Obama? Yes We Can!)
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To: BillyBoy

Ah yes, I forgot about the Orthodox. Thanks for correcting.


11 posted on 03/19/2013 9:30:10 PM PDT by Free and Armed (Playing leap frog with a unicorn and compromising with liberals--both have a similar end result)
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To: Alex Murphy
Sure! (Jus' keep it to yerself.)
12 posted on 03/19/2013 9:31:01 PM PDT by Brian Kopp DPM ("Miserando atque eligendo")
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To: mylife

Sure, protestants can have all the opinions they want about him. It won’t do any more good than it does us Catholics, though. He’s there for the duration, and we have nothing to say about how he guides the Church.


13 posted on 03/19/2013 9:33:02 PM PDT by redhead (NO GROUND TO THE DEVIL! Use Weaponized Prayer)
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To: mylife

**Why would Francis listed to the Gay rights crowd and change doctrine to accommodate them?**

I don’t believe he has.


14 posted on 03/19/2013 9:33:07 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: Salvation

I fear that things are so out of control in our world that no man can fix it. Only God can.

If all religions can join together, even keeping their own beliefs, what would be wrong with that?

I’m not as eloquent as you are, but like you said..we all need to love one another inspite of our differences.

It’s the only chance we have.


15 posted on 03/19/2013 9:33:45 PM PDT by berdie
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To: Free and Armed
I'm not interested in a heated Catholic vs Protestant debate tonight either. I simply want to add to your post a little...

“So what the Church is really saying when it denies communion to all but those on its own membership roles is not so much that we think it’s best if you participate in this solemn event with those that can better attest to the validity of your faith experience or worthiness of character but rather that you aren’t even a fellow Christian at all.”

The author only sees an exclusion (like a woman excluded from a mens' club) but doesn't see the reason. Catholics take Christ at His Word...

1 Cor 11:23 For I received from the Lord that which I also delivered to you, that the Lord Jesus in the night in which He was betrayed took bread; 24 and when He had given thanks, He broke it and said, “This is My body, which is for you; do this in remembrance of Me.” 25 In the same way He took the cup also after supper, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in My blood; do this, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of Me.” 26 For as often as you eat this bread and drink the cup, you proclaim the Lord’s death until He comes.

27 Therefore whoever eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner, shall be guilty of the body and the blood of the Lord. 28 But a man must examine himself, and in so doing he is to eat of the bread and drink of the cup. 29 For he who eats and drinks, eats and drinks judgment to himself if he does not judge the body rightly. 30 For this reason many among you are weak and sick, and a number [s]sleep. 31 But if we judged ourselves rightly, we would not be judged. 32 But when we are judged, we are disciplined by the Lord so that we will not be condemned along with the world.

Exclusion from the Catholic celebration of the Eucharist is not an us vs them matter. It's a matter of protection from grave sin in accordance with Scripture.
16 posted on 03/19/2013 9:34:34 PM PDT by pgyanke (Republicans get in trouble when not living up to their principles. Democrats... when they do.)
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To: Alex Murphy; a fool in paradise

We Unitarians don’t have opinions!


17 posted on 03/19/2013 9:35:39 PM PDT by Revolting cat! (Bad things are wrong! Ice cream is delicious!)
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To: Salvation

listed = listen


18 posted on 03/19/2013 9:37:12 PM PDT by mylife (The Roar Of The Masses Could Be Farts)
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To: Alex Murphy; a fool in paradise
Francis is doing just fine!


19 posted on 03/19/2013 9:37:48 PM PDT by Revolting cat! (Bad things are wrong! Ice cream is delicious!)
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To: redhead

It is his to guide the church.
Not to cow to every sinner that ever crossed into the church.


20 posted on 03/19/2013 9:39:04 PM PDT by mylife (The Roar Of The Masses Could Be Farts)
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To: berdie
Luke 9:49 John answered and said, “Master, we saw someone casting out demons in Your name; and we tried to prevent him because he does not follow along with us.” 50 But Jesus said to him, “Do not hinder him; for he who is not against you is for you.”

As Catholics, we believe in the Apostolic Commission and its succession through the generations of bishops. However, no one who professes the Name of Christ is our enemy.

21 posted on 03/19/2013 9:40:55 PM PDT by pgyanke (Republicans get in trouble when not living up to their principles. Democrats... when they do.)
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To: Salvation

“Don’t we both try to love our neighbor as ourselves?”

Unfortunately, it sure doesn’t appear that way in perusing the religious threads here, Salvation. Sure hard to read them and ‘feel the love.’


22 posted on 03/19/2013 9:44:43 PM PDT by EDINVA
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To: mylife

The Pope can’t change Catholic doctrine even if he wanted to. The idea floating around leftist minds that a new “hip” Pope can just say the word and change Catholic doctrine to their liking is ridiculous. That is why it was so funny to see the libs get all excited about the new Pope thinking he could bring in contraception, abortion, homosexuality, and women Priests.

The Pope can change disciplines though, so as I understand it he could lift the rule of celibacy for Priests.


23 posted on 03/19/2013 9:45:42 PM PDT by HerrBlucher (Praise to the Lord the Almighty the King of Creation)
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To: Revolting cat!
I don't know about that...


24 posted on 03/19/2013 9:46:55 PM PDT by Gil4 (Progressives - Trying to repeal the Law of Supply and Demand since 1848)
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Comment #25 Removed by Moderator

To: EDINVA

So true. They are not as bad as the Creation v Evolution threads of yore though. Now those were vicious rumbles!


26 posted on 03/19/2013 9:48:20 PM PDT by HerrBlucher (Praise to the Lord the Almighty the King of Creation)
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To: pgyanke

“He who is not against you is for you”

Words to ponder.


27 posted on 03/19/2013 9:52:15 PM PDT by berdie
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Comment #28 Removed by Moderator

To: pgyanke

“However, no one who professes the Name of Christ is our enemy.” Wow. No kidding. Perhaps, when Christ professes your name, you will mean; some thing, or not


29 posted on 03/19/2013 10:07:03 PM PDT by RedHeeler
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To: BillyBoy; All

At the big celebration when watching it live I noticed it was said that communion would be served to everyone in the crowd.


30 posted on 03/19/2013 10:14:01 PM PDT by Syncro (Hebrews 11:1-Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen)
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To: mylife

sure, we all have opinions on a whole bunch of different christian leaders.

from my experience here nobody is very shy offering opinions about christian leaders, in or out of their denomination.


31 posted on 03/19/2013 10:25:32 PM PDT by Secret Agent Man (I can neither confirm or deny that; even if I could, I couldn't - it's classified.)
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To: mylife

don’t worry, lay catholics don’t have any sway over anything important in their dioceses either. they’re for the most part happy about that.


32 posted on 03/19/2013 10:27:06 PM PDT by Secret Agent Man (I can neither confirm or deny that; even if I could, I couldn't - it's classified.)
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To: Alex Murphy
Anyone can have an opinion. Who would we be to tell someone they could not?

Whether that opinion is relevant in the matters of the Catholic Church is another thing entirely.

33 posted on 03/19/2013 10:27:52 PM PDT by Smokin' Joe (How often God must weep at humans' folly. Stand fast. God knows what He is doing)
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To: mylife

There are true Christians in the Catholic Church. There may even be some true Christians among the Mennonites. There are some among the Baptists, Lutherans, Presbyterians, Pentecostals, and yes even some who claim no roots in any of the religions of men. The Catholic Church is a ‘lightning rod’ because of its size and because of its prominence. The attacks are indeed attacks on Christianity in general. Many leading the attacks on the Catholic Church claim to be Christians. By their fruits….?

The Lord has indicated to us that the systems of men are collapsing…economical, political, religious…it has begun. He has also told us not to fear the coming collapse. He is in charge! To that, we say, Amen!

I wrote the above for another, more private response to a question. It is appropriate to repeat it here. It is irresponsible for Christians, of what ever lineage, not to pray for other Christians. If you aren’t a Christian, I am not speaking to or for you. You have your own problems. If you are a Christian, I care not what your ‘Church’ affiliation is...you are my brother. I will pray for you. I will pray for God’s influence in your life and in the life of ‘your church’...and especially if ‘your church’ just elected a new ‘Papa Francisco’.


34 posted on 03/19/2013 10:38:30 PM PDT by GGpaX4DumpedTea (I am a Tea Party descendant...steeped in the Constitutional Republic given to us by the Founders.)
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To: GGpaX4DumpedTea
. The attacks are indeed attacks on Christianity in general.

I agree.

35 posted on 03/19/2013 10:46:39 PM PDT by mylife (The Roar Of The Masses Could Be Farts)
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To: Alex Murphy

“For example, Pope Benedict repeatedly emphasized throughout his pontificate that Protestant churches especially were not real churches and at best could only be thought of as errant theological associations.”

All I seem to recall is the media misreporting what the Pope actually said, with headlines like “Pope says Protestants not real Christians”. For some strange reason.

“It follows that these separated churches and Communities, though we believe they suffer from defects, are deprived neither of significance nor importance in the mystery of salvation. In fact the Spirit of Christ has not refrained from using them as instruments of salvation, whose value derives from that fullness of grace and of truth which has been entrusted to the Catholic Church”— Pope B16, Dominus Iesus”

What a monster.

Freegards


36 posted on 03/19/2013 10:46:52 PM PDT by Ransomed
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To: Salvation; Chode

“Don’t we both love God above all things?

Don’t we both try to love our neighbor as ourselves?”

Some of us do. Some of us would rather point their finger at other people’s religion rather than look in the mirror and do the finger pointing where it belongs.


37 posted on 03/19/2013 11:50:32 PM PDT by Morgana (Always a bit of truth in dark humor.)
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To: Free and Armed

Not just Orthodox, either. I believe the Assyrian Church of the East, the Armenian Apostolic Church, and the Polish National Catholic Church (which, despite the name, is a breakaway church NOT in communion with Rome) can all receive communion at a Roman Catholic Church. I think there’s some very rare examples of protestants could as well, but I’m not sure how that works since I believe they’d have to be from a church with valid apostolic succession that has the same beliefs about the Eucharist as the Catholic Church.


38 posted on 03/19/2013 11:50:39 PM PDT by BillyBoy ( Impeach Obama? Yes We Can!)
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To: pgyanke

AMEN!! AMEN!! AMEN!!


39 posted on 03/20/2013 12:09:03 AM PDT by johngrace (I am a 1 John 4! Christian- declared at every Sunday Mass , Divine Mercy and Rosary prayers!)
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To: Alex Murphy

Which is the more garbled: his syntax or his understanding of Catholicism? It’s a tough call.


40 posted on 03/20/2013 12:17:04 AM PDT by jobim (.)
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To: HerrBlucher

So true. They are not as bad as the Creation v Evolution threads of yore though. Now those were vicious rumbles!

...they sure were...usually it would take all of three posts to get the namecalling going, generally from the evo side, but not always...


41 posted on 03/20/2013 12:32:14 AM PDT by IrishBrigade
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To: Alex Murphy
From the article..."Catholics have every right to select whomever they desire as their head honcho."

This fundamentally fails to recognize God Himself. He isn't dead to His Body. He chooses who will specific spiritual gifts. Even a conclave of Bishops lacks the power to give something they do not possess.

If they choose to select a particular person to lead their denomination, they have that authority, but it is only a worldly authority and not Divinely instituted. Within that constraint, there is nothing wrong with the last Pope resigning.

It further manifests the RCC isn't a Divinely established institution, but simply another denomination of believers who have formed a worldly institution.

The Body of Christ still has many different members and as a whole they form His Bride.

42 posted on 03/20/2013 2:10:22 AM PDT by Cvengr (Adversity in life and death is inevitable. Thru faith in Christ, stress is optional.)
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To: Alex Murphy
They each have a sufficient number of opinions on what Scripture says to, in effect, each have their own version of the Bible, so sure, what's an opinion about the Pope compared to that?
43 posted on 03/20/2013 4:05:00 AM PDT by Rashputin (Jesus Christ doesn't evacuate His troops, He leads them to victory.)
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To: Cvengr
It further manifests the RCC isn't a Divinely established institution, but simply another denomination of believers who have formed a worldly institution.

You get all that from a Baptist observing the Catholic Pope is chosen by Catholics?

44 posted on 03/20/2013 5:01:51 AM PDT by Campion ("Social justice" begins in the womb)
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To: Alex Murphy
For example, Pope Benedict repeatedly emphasized throughout his pontificate that Protestant churches especially were not real churches and at best could only be thought of as errant theological associations.

"Errant theological associations" is putting words in someone else's mouth. That's not a phrase the Pope used. The usual term is "ecclesial communities".

Meanwhile, Calvinist theologian John Gerstner calls the Pope's church a "synagogue of Satan". The official doctrinal statements of two American Lutheran groups call the Pope "Antichrist". There are many other examples. "Errant theological associations" seems pretty tame by comparison.

45 posted on 03/20/2013 5:10:52 AM PDT by Campion ("Social justice" begins in the womb)
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To: Alex Murphy

Its the first time I’ve noticed either of the secular/ protestant worlds want to get involved, in some way, in electing the Pope. Rick Warrens suggestion goes hand in hand with questions by an AP reporter to the State Department. The reporter compared the election of the Pope with Iran’s...


46 posted on 03/20/2013 5:49:41 AM PDT by bronxville (Margaret Sanger - “We do not want word to go out that we want to exterminate the Negro population,)
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To: BillyBoy
For example, an Orthodox Christian in good standing is allowed to receive communion at a Catholic parish (although oddly enough, the reverse is not true)

Not always. We went to a Russian Orthodox/Catholic wedding in an Orthodox Mass where the Catholics were invited to receive. But then we also attended a Greek Orthodox/Catholic wedding where it looked like the Groom (Catholic) received but none of the other Catholics present did. We actually wondered if the groom had converted but according to his mother, he hadn't.

47 posted on 03/20/2013 5:56:40 AM PDT by old and tired
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To: longhorn too

Agreed. As the head of a billion plus Christian organization, a steadfastly pro-life, pro-traditional marriage pope solidifies and can mobilize a lot of people in that direction. And protestants with those values benefit from many like minded people supporting those goals. So it is fine for Protestants to pray for a leader who supports these values.


48 posted on 03/20/2013 7:11:05 AM PDT by tbw2
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To: Alex Murphy; narses; Salvation; NYer; Cronos; wagglebee
Should Protestants Be Allowed To Have An Opinion Regarding The New Pope?,

I don't really like the title. Who, really, is going to stop Protestants from having an opinion on the new pope? The thought police???

The question should be phrased: "When should Catholics care about Protestant opinions regarding the new pope?"

49 posted on 03/20/2013 7:16:43 AM PDT by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain and Proud of It! True supporters of our troops pray for their victory!)
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To: Revolting cat!

“The Miracle Of The Bells”. Kinda schmaltzy. But I like it.


50 posted on 03/20/2013 8:40:05 AM PDT by onedoug
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