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Will Pope Francis fulfill Benedict's legacy on abortion and Communion?
LifeSiteNews.com ^ | 3/20/13 | John-Henry Westen

Posted on 03/20/2013 5:23:44 PM PDT by BlatherNaut

One of the little-known legacies of Pope Benedict XVI is his consistent push to have pro-abortion politicians given the opportunity to repent and come back to a right relationship with God by refusing them Holy Communion. Benedict’s public role in the matter began in 2004 prior to his pontificate, while head of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith under Pope John Paul II.

(Excerpt) Read more at lifesitenews.com ...


TOPICS: Catholic; Current Events
KEYWORDS: communion; popefrancis; proabortion; prolife
The initial signs are positive that Pope Francis will follow in Pope Benedict’s footsteps on the matter.
1 posted on 03/20/2013 5:23:44 PM PDT by BlatherNaut
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To: BlatherNaut

Very positive


2 posted on 03/20/2013 5:29:21 PM PDT by mgist
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To: BlatherNaut

Hopefully he will allow them to repent after public excommunication from the Church.


3 posted on 03/20/2013 5:44:53 PM PDT by Venturer
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To: BlatherNaut

Then why did Pelosi and Biden receive at the inaugural papal Mass yesterday?


4 posted on 03/20/2013 5:45:41 PM PDT by sitetest (If Roe is not overturned, no unborn child will ever be protected in law.)
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To: sitetest

“Then why did Pelosi and Biden receive at the inaugural papal Mass yesterday?”

Because its not 1100 AD. Prudence dictates cooperation with the secular powers.


5 posted on 03/20/2013 5:48:24 PM PDT by Jim Noble (When strong, avoid them. Attack their weaknesses. Emerge to their surprise.)
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To: BlatherNaut

The initial signs are positive that Pope Francis will follow in Pope Benedict’s footsteps on the matter...

Apparently Pelosi & Biden are the exceptions to the rule. According to the Drudge Report, despite abortion views, both took Holy Communion at the Vatican


6 posted on 03/20/2013 5:51:22 PM PDT by stars & stripes forever ((Blessed is the nation whose God is the Lord!))
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To: sitetest
Then why did Pelosi and Biden receive at the inaugural papal Mass yesterday?

Pelosi and Biden were hardly the only pro-abortion, pro-homosexual, pro-euthanasia pols there...

7 posted on 03/20/2013 5:56:42 PM PDT by markomalley (Nothing emboldens the wicked so greatly as the lack of courage on the part of the good -- Leo XIII)
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To: Venturer
Hopefully he will allow them to repent after public excommunication from the Church.

That's what I hope to see, also. Although it does seem like some things never change. :(

http://www.traditioninaction.org/RevolutionPhotos/Images/056_clintonCommunion_30Gio_4-98.jpg

8 posted on 03/20/2013 6:02:59 PM PDT by BlatherNaut
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To: BlatherNaut

Initial signs? Hw gave Pilosi and Biden communion and a warm handshake, that is what I see as “initial signs”.


9 posted on 03/20/2013 6:07:02 PM PDT by ThePatriotsFlag ( EVERY DIME Obama Spends is given to him by the Republicans in the House.)
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To: BlatherNaut
"One of the little-known legacies of Pope Benedict XVI is his consistent push to have pro-abortion politicians given the opportunity to repent and come back to a right relationship with God by refusing them Holy Communion."

The initial signs are positive that Pope Francis will follow in Pope Benedict’s footsteps on the matter.

A day late, and a dollar short.

Related threads:
New Pope: No Communion for Pro-Abortion Politicians
Pope Francis I clear on denying Communion to those who facilitate in abortion
Despite abortion views, Biden, Pelosi receive communion in Vatican Mass [Catholic Caucus]
Does anyone have any pictures of Joe Biden or Nancy Pelosi receiving communion?

10 posted on 03/20/2013 6:17:39 PM PDT by Alex Murphy ("If you are not firm in faith, you will not be firm at all" - Isaiah 7:9)
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To: BlatherNaut

Pope Francis Boehner!


11 posted on 03/20/2013 6:30:02 PM PDT by jjotto ("Ya could look it up!")
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To: Jim Noble
"Because its not 1100 AD. Prudence dictates cooperation with the secular powers."

Yeah, "prudence" dictates that the majority of Catholics are Catholics in Name Only because they found it was prudent to accept the same Generic Christianity that's eroded the tens of thousands of denominational Churches into near dust. It's prudent to not have to bother with self control a few days a month. Prudent to pretend murdering infants in the womb isn't murder. Prudent to ignore all that stuff that's been around for several thousand years and embrace Self Alone. Get with it and follow the Church of Erich Fromm and to thine own self be true, not those silly old Apostles and Church Fathers.

That "prudence" garbage is working out really well if you think ignoring Church Teaching, Canon Law, and the sacred nature of the Eucharist is the goal. I'm sure the roughly one hundred and fifty million infants murdered by abortion and abortaficient contraceptives are cheering for "prudence" as we speak. They're not really asking how long it will be until they're avenged, that's just stuff from the bad old days when they thought the Bible was the revealed Word of God.

All that faith and standing up for Christ and the One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church Jesus Christ Himself founded, guides, and promised to protect is just so, soooo, Tenth Century.

12 posted on 03/20/2013 6:40:30 PM PDT by Rashputin (Jesus Christ doesn't evacuate His troops, He leads them to victory.)
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To: jjotto

*rme*


13 posted on 03/20/2013 6:54:56 PM PDT by Kaslin (He needed the ignorant to reelect him, and he got them. Now we all have to pay the consequenses)
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To: stars & stripes forever
"The initial signs are positive that Pope Francis will follow in Pope Benedict’s footsteps on the matter..."

----------

That was from the article. I forgot the quotes.

Apparently Pelosi & Biden are the exceptions to the rule. According to the Drudge Report, despite abortion views, both took Holy Communion at the Vatican

Yeah, disgusting.

14 posted on 03/20/2013 7:33:00 PM PDT by BlatherNaut
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To: sitetest

Let’s wait if this couple will be allowed to receive Communion in the US once this new papacy has settled and all groundrules have been established.


15 posted on 03/20/2013 10:14:20 PM PDT by 353FMG ( I refuse to specify whether I am serious or sarcastic -- I respect FReepers too much.)
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To: ThePatriotsFlag

Pope Francis did not distribute Holy Communion.


16 posted on 03/20/2013 10:17:47 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: Salvation

In the end it is really up to their bishops.


17 posted on 03/20/2013 10:29:32 PM PDT by D-fendr (Deus non alligatur sacramentis sed nos alligamur.)
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To: D-fendr

You got it! For example, Sebelius’ bishop has excommunicated her.


18 posted on 03/20/2013 10:31:59 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: BlatherNaut
The initial signs are positive that Pope Francis will follow in Pope Benedict’s footsteps on the matter.

The rule is that you can do pretty much anything and still receive communion. I mean, who's going to stop you?

19 posted on 03/20/2013 11:35:52 PM PDT by Jeff Chandler (WHAT DIFFERENCE DOES IT MAKE?)
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To: BlatherNaut

I am very, very hopeful.


20 posted on 03/21/2013 3:33:35 AM PDT by Biggirl ("Jesus talked to us as individuals"-Jim Vicevich/Thanks JimV!)
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To: Jeff Chandler

I am very confident that you will see positive change idown the road. Count on it.


21 posted on 03/21/2013 3:35:05 AM PDT by Biggirl ("Jesus talked to us as individuals"-Jim Vicevich/Thanks JimV!)
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To: Salvation

AMEN!


22 posted on 03/21/2013 3:35:28 AM PDT by Biggirl ("Jesus talked to us as individuals"-Jim Vicevich/Thanks JimV!)
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To: Rashputin

Yet as the saying goes, “what is old id new again.”


23 posted on 03/21/2013 3:38:48 AM PDT by Biggirl ("Jesus talked to us as individuals"-Jim Vicevich/Thanks JimV!)
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To: BlatherNaut

What is needed are bishops who will enforce the Church rules.


24 posted on 03/21/2013 3:40:25 AM PDT by Biggirl ("Jesus talked to us as individuals"-Jim Vicevich/Thanks JimV!)
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To: markomalley
Dear markomalley,

“Pelosi and Biden were hardly the only pro-abortion, pro-homosexual, pro-euthanasia pols there...”

Is that an argument in favor of the idea that Pope Francis will take a tougher line with pro-abort politicians?


sitetest

25 posted on 03/21/2013 5:19:15 AM PDT by sitetest (If Roe is not overturned, no unborn child will ever be protected in law.)
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To: Jim Noble; markomalley
Dear Jim Noble,

“Because its not 1100 AD. Prudence dictates cooperation with the secular powers.”

I’d take the time to disagree with you, but it isn’t actually relevant, here.

The article strongly suggests that Pope Francis will follow through on Pope Benedict XVI’s push to deny pro-abort politicians Holy Communion. Yet, at the very first papal Mass, two prominent pro-abort politicians (and as markomalley points out, probably a whole bunch more than two) were permitted to receive Holy Communion.

Thus, my question, “Then why did Pelosi and Biden receive at the inaugural papal Mass yesterday?” The article is stating that Pope Francis is going to take a tougher line on this, but the evidence so far suggests not.

To me, it looks more like, “Meet the new boss, same as the old boss.”


sitetest

26 posted on 03/21/2013 5:24:32 AM PDT by sitetest (If Roe is not overturned, no unborn child will ever be protected in law.)
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To: 353FMG
Dear 353FMG,

“Let’s wait if this couple will be allowed to receive Communion in the US once this new papacy has settled and all groundrules have been established.”

Our approach to viewing the deeds of this papacy should certainly be prudent. At every point, I will look to our Holy Father to start to do the right thing. Perhaps there was some reason for the blasphemy at the papal Mass.

Perhaps he'd ordered that the pro-aborts not be given Holy Communion, and he was disobeyed. In that case, he needs to get better control over his own household.

Perhaps he hadn't had time to think about it, and thus, along with many other details, it slipped his mind. I hope that he will not continue to relegate the matter to a low priority.

Perhaps he thought this isn't the time or the place. With such a judgment, I disagree, but it's his show, and he gets to run it as he sees fit.

Or perhaps, he doesn't believe that generally, it's really such a great idea, after all, in which case, the article is wrong, is raising false hopes among those who would like to see a greater discipline, and should be disregarded. Which is more or less what I implied in my first post.

Time will tell.

But right now, I don't think there's appropriate cause to believe that things are going to change on this topic. I figure he'll do what Benedict XVI did - occasionally say something contrary to actual practice, which will get large numbers of Catholics all excited, but then nothing will be done, nothing will change.

Hope I'm wrong. Not betting the farm on it.


sitetest

27 posted on 03/21/2013 5:33:49 AM PDT by sitetest (If Roe is not overturned, no unborn child will ever be protected in law.)
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To: Salvation
Pope Francis did not distribute Holy Communion.
Duh, do you think I don't know that? You know exactly what I meant by my comment. Early signs show a lot of bluff and as usual, no bite.

"Here is what we believe and stand for...unless you disagree, then it's ok anyway, no harm, no downside. Your personal accountability is not necessary, you want to keep pushing abortion and gay marriage? No problem."

So early indications is nothing will change and this church will continue down the slippery slope to Hell as did the Episcopal "church." I want my church to STAND UP for doctrine, not cave to political whims.

28 posted on 03/21/2013 5:38:49 AM PDT by ThePatriotsFlag ( EVERY DIME Obama Spends is given to him by the Republicans in the House.)
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To: Jeff Chandler
The rule is that you can do pretty much anything and still receive communion. I mean, who's going to stop you?

Maybe no one will stop you. But God is watching.

From The Cure of Ars, St. John Vianney: "I can't stop praying for the poor sinners, who are on the road to hell. If they come to die in that state, they will be lost for all eternity. What a pity!"

29 posted on 03/21/2013 5:50:48 AM PDT by BlatherNaut
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To: Biggirl
I am very, very hopeful.

I'm trying to remain cautiously optimistic, but with certain American bishops declaring that they refuse to "politicize the Eucharist", we may be in for a long wait.

Ironically, it's Biden and Pelosi who are, in fact, politicizing the Eucharist, by publicly proclaiming themselves Catholic (when in reality, in regard to excommunication, their "sentence is already passed" as a result of their obdurate refusal to follow Church teaching and deliberate actions in support of the "Culture of Death"). How can informing the media that they received Communion at the Papal Mass be characterized as anything less than "politicizing the Eucharist"?

30 posted on 03/21/2013 6:12:20 AM PDT by BlatherNaut
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To: sitetest; 353FMG
"“Let’s wait if this couple will be allowed to receive Communion in the US once this new papacy has settled and all groundrules have been established.”

Our approach to viewing the deeds of this papacy should certainly be prudent. At every point, I will look to our Holy Father to start to do the right thing. Perhaps there was some reason for the blasphemy at the papal Mass."

Excellent advice.

31 posted on 03/21/2013 6:36:01 AM PDT by BlatherNaut
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To: sitetest

I don’t think we disagree.


32 posted on 03/21/2013 7:42:03 AM PDT by Jim Noble (When strong, avoid them. Attack their weaknesses. Emerge to their surprise.)
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To: sitetest
“Pelosi and Biden were hardly the only pro-abortion, pro-homosexual, pro-euthanasia pols there...”

Is that an argument in favor of the idea that Pope Francis will take a tougher line with pro-abort politicians?

It is neither an argument that he will or he won't. The point being that the fact that Pelosi and Biden reportedly received Holy Communion at that particular Mass should not be an indicator one way or the other because of the reason I cited.

Official delegations from 132 different countries were present at that Mass. That could be in the neighborhood of 1,000 people who were in that one section alone. How, exactly, would one adequately administer Can 915 in the circumstances? Make each minister of Holy Communion in that section memorize a book of mug shots of public miscreants who should be denied Communion if they present themselves? Considering all those delegates from all those different countries...how many mug shots would they need to memorize? 150? 200? 500? Do they have a list for pro-abortion politicians? Another list for non-Catholic politicians? Yet another for politicians who sponsor death squads? Another for those who have committed genocide against their own people?

In my mind, it would have been far better had they not ministered Communion to anybody seated in the "politicians" section at all. But, if you listen to Biden's press secretary, they did (I have no other proof that he received communion than that).

When I think about the sheer logistics of the situation, I am not scandalized by the prospect that Biden's office's report is true.

I am far more scandalized that either receive the Blessed Sacrament without hassle when either decide to darken the doors of Holy Trinity in Georgetown.

33 posted on 03/21/2013 2:46:56 PM PDT by markomalley (Nothing emboldens the wicked so greatly as the lack of courage on the part of the good -- Leo XIII)
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To: markomalley
Dear markomalley,

Extraordinary evil requires extraordinary efforts to resist.

Sadly, I don't think it would have taken extraordinary efforts to keep pro-deathers from Holy Communion.

Politicians could have been “whitelisted.” Any politician who checked out as not having obviously endorsed the culture of death would get a small red rose to wear on his or her outfit, and upon approaching for Holy Communion, could be readily identified. Even with several hundred politicians to check out, it would have taken some low-level lackey less than a day to do the research.

Failing that, a simple explanation that due to the presence of demonic pro-abort politicians in large numbers, politicians would not be welcome to receive the Sacrament.

Pope Francis was very clear upon his election that he is the Bishop of Rome. Let the discipline start there.

If he can't figure out how to do it, maybe he isn't up to the job.

The scandal of the scum receiving at parishes in Georgetown reflects poorly on the whole Church, but most especially on Donna Wuerl. The new pope could have shown Washington's best-dressed cleric a thing or two on how it's done. Leading by example.

I'll be the first to applaud when some of these folks start doing the right thing. And, indeed, occasionally, one of them does. The monster Sebellius’ bishop has told her not to present herself for the Sacrament. Good on him! It's a very, very, tiny start, but it's a start!

But I'm no longer willing to make excuses for the abject failure of the hierarchy. I understand that they may think this time or that time, or this event or that event, or the other time or event, or the one after that, or the one after that, isn't the right one at which to start ceasing to do evil and starting to discipline these demonically-guided wayward Catholics. But I no longer accept that they are in the right to delay further the things that need getting done.

The hierarchy, in failing to discipline the likes of Biden, Pelosi, Mikulski, Giuliani, Casey, Schwarzennegger, Durbin, Leahy, Pataki, Harkin, Kaine, Jerry Brown, Kerry, Menendez,..., are leading millions of laity to Hell.


sitetest

34 posted on 03/21/2013 4:38:36 PM PDT by sitetest (If Roe is not overturned, no unborn child will ever be protected in law.)
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To: sitetest

...O’Mutley (a Gonzaga grad), Anthony Brown (a “proud” Knight of Columbus), Cuomo I, Cuomo II, Landrieu I, Landrieu II, Collins, Murray, Reed, Cantwell, Gillibrand, McCaskill, Kaptur, Cuellar, Neal, Dingell, Frank, Moran, Rangel, DeFazio, Markey, Pallone, Pastor, Sanchez, Velazquez, Bishop, Becerra, Capuano, Connolly, Lujan, McCollum, Murphy, ...


35 posted on 03/21/2013 4:52:03 PM PDT by sitetest (If Roe is not overturned, no unborn child will ever be protected in law.)
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To: sitetest

And then there is Satan’s Special Project: Nearly the entire Kennedy clan.


36 posted on 03/21/2013 4:56:24 PM PDT by sitetest (If Roe is not overturned, no unborn child will ever be protected in law.)
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To: sitetest
If he can't figure out how to do it, maybe he isn't up to the job.

Let us have this conversation in six months to a year. I refuse to condemn him as a failure in his first week on the job.

He may be the pope we need. He may be the pope we deserve. Only God knows at this juncture which is which. One thing for certain, though, he is the pope.

Can. 331 The bishop of the Roman Church, in whom continues the office given by the Lord uniquely to Peter, the first of the Apostles, and to be transmitted to his successors, is the head of the college of bishops, the Vicar of Christ, and the pastor of the universal Church on earth. By virtue of his office he possesses supreme, full, immediate, and universal ordinary power in the Church, which he is always able to exercise freely.

And we are the Christian faithful:

Can. 212 §1. Conscious of their own responsibility, the Christian faithful are bound to follow with Christian obedience those things which the sacred pastors, inasmuch as they represent Christ, declare as teachers of the faith or establish as rulers of the Church.

So I don't see too much of an alternative to trusting that the Holy Spirit will work with him (or, at a minimum, keep him from doing permanent damage):

Mat 16:18 And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the powers of death shall not prevail against it.

Mat 16:19 I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven."


37 posted on 03/21/2013 4:58:22 PM PDT by markomalley (Nothing emboldens the wicked so greatly as the lack of courage on the part of the good -- Leo XIII)
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To: markomalley
Dear markomalley,

“I refuse to condemn him as a failure in his first week on the job.”

I don't condemn him, now or ever. Just not my job. I merely note that so far, he has failed to do what is needed.

I don't dispute his authority, I don't fail to submit to the teachings of Holy Mother Church. But I will no longer pretend that our hierarchs are doing a bang-up job when in truth, they fail to do what is right, and by omission, do what is evil by leading souls to Hell.

This thread promotes the idea that the cavalry has arrived and is going to set all things to right. It pretends that somehow Pope Francis is going to be a great enforcer of discipline, that he will clean up the Augean stables.

Maybe he will, maybe he won't.

But he had a spectacular chance to start off on the right foot, and he muffed it. I hope things will get better. I'm not counting on it.

Meet the new boss. Same as the old boss.

I won't get fooled again.


sitetest

38 posted on 03/21/2013 7:43:55 PM PDT by sitetest (If Roe is not overturned, no unborn child will ever be protected in law.)
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To: BlatherNaut
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Slaves of the Immac. Heart of Mary Profess Our Filial Submission to Pope Francis (Catholic Caucus)
Gay Advocacy Groups Rush to Demonize Pope Francis
Traditionalists and Pope Francis: Can We Take a Deep Breath and Please Calm Down?
What I would have said at the Consistory: An interview with Cardinal Jorge Mario Bergoglio
Pope Francis Offers His Second Blessing to Pregnant Mom, Unborn Baby
Cdl. Bergoglio's Lenten Letter, 2013
UPDATE: Rorate Caeli’s diatribe against Pope Francis [Catholic Caucus]
Pope Francis: A Disappointment for Catholics Who Don't Like Being Catholic
Updates on Pope Francis’ first day as Pope – Great moments! (truly humble man)
New Pope Slips Out Of Vatican For morning Prayer Visit

Our First American Pope
Pope Francis I clear on denying Communion to those who facilitate in abortion
Jorge Mario Bergoglio, Profession: Servant of the Servants of God
EDITORIAL:Pope Francis I bridges conservative and progressive currents
New Pope Francis called homosexual ‘marriage’ a ‘machination of the Father of Lies’
Pope Francis Is First Catholic Pontiff From The Americas; He Is Known As A Humble Intellectual
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10 Facts about Pope Francis
Vatican Web Site Updated
Full Text of Pope Francis’ Opening Address to Catholic Faithful
9 things you should know about Pope Francis
Pope Francis I promises to be strong pro-life world leader
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New Pope- enemy of Catholic tradition
As Cardinal, Pope Francis condemned abortion even in rape cases
Profile: New pope, Jesuit Bergoglio, was runner-up in 2005 conclave
Jorge Mario Bergoglio elected pope, takes Francis as name
Cardinal Jorge Bergoglio: a Profile
HABEMUS PAPAM!!! (Live Thread)

39 posted on 03/26/2013 7:28:16 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: BlatherNaut

Well, it’s been how many days? And Biden has already received at St Patrick’s Cathedral!

Something has got to give here.


40 posted on 03/27/2013 1:22:25 PM PDT by piusv
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