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Ave Maria Law priest takes bishops to task for failing to deny Communion to Biden, Pelosi, et. al.
LSN ^ | Rev. Michael P. Orsi

Posted on 03/21/2013 7:44:10 PM PDT by Morgana

ROME, March 21, 2013 (LifeSiteNews.com) - There had been a little off track betting going on among pro-life Catholics ( a tautology for sure) as to whether or not Vice Joe Biden and House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi would receive Holy Communion at the Mass of Installation for Pope Francis in Rome. on Tuesday. The yeas far out polled they nays, and the yeas proved to be right. It was really a no-brainer!

Biden and Pelosi and other pro-abortion politicians have been thumbing their noses at church teaching for many years now. Even though it has been repeated ad infinitum that their behavior is contrary to Catholic teaching regarding the sanctity of human life from conception to natural death, they have continually presented themselves at the altar rail. They have never been denied the sacrament.

Some bishops have personally advised them not to receive Communion, since their public stand aids and abets a heinous crime. These warnings are, however, deemed pastoral and have no teeth. There is no unanimity among the bishops as to their imposition and whether or not an offending politician can be denied the sacrament if he or she presents themselves for Communion.

The timidity of the bishops stems from the lack of agreement as to how a bishop should apply Canon 915 is to be interpreted and used. The canon states, "Those who are excommunicated or interdicted after the imposition or declaration of the penalty and others who obstinately persist in manifest grave sin are not to be admitted to Holy Communion." This becomes problematic for two reasons: first, because many bishops are loathe to accuse politicians of grave sin; and second, because excommunication is a formal juridical act that effectively cuts off the offender from the sacramental life of the Church. It also means the denial of a Catholic funeral.

Since there is no direct mandate from the Vatican, most bishops don’t want to take the risk of not being supported in their decision.

Click "like" if you are PRO-LIFE!

No doubt there would also be a strong public outcry protesting freedom of conscience and the obligation of politicians to represent their constituents. Of course, there will also be references to the Mario Cuomo mantra, “I am personally opposed to abortion but …” given at Notre Dame, in 1984, in which he cleverly tried to separate religious belief and public morality. This speech was condemned by Cardinal John O’Connor, since it violated traditional Catholic teaching on the importance of public officials to form their consciences in light of the Church’s moral teachings and the obligation to enact legislation in accord with it. Cuomo, however, was never counseled not to receive Communion. Ever since, more and more Catholics have decided that they can make their own decisions as to what is right and wrong morally.

Politicians such as Biden and Pelosi have been stubborn and contumacious in their pro-abortion policies and in presenting themselves for reception of the Eucharist. They know that the American bishops, for the most part, prefer a “pastoral approach,” which means basically let’s talk to them and help them to see the error of their ways. It has not worked, and there is no indication that it will. The topic of this essay is proof enough! They also know that Catholic priests are instructed not to cause a scene on the Communion line and that the person be permitted to receive. Thus, they opt to take advantage of these charitable loopholes.

There is a solution and perhaps some hope for stronger enforcement of Church policy on offending pols. The Vatican should clearly state that politicians who promote a culture of death, abortion, and euthanasia, are subject to excommunication by their bishop. Pope-Emeritus Benedict XVI made an unofficial statement on a trip to Mexico, in 2007, stating that excommunication for pro choice legislators was not arbitrary and is part of canon law. This would strengthen Canon 915 and some bishops’ backbones.

It is well known that Pope Francis forbade pro- choice politicians from receiving Holy Communion in his diocese, in Argentina. Perhaps the new Pope can move this project along?

By the bishops refusing to take strong action, such as excommunication, politicians will continue their “in your face” attitude toward the church and her leaders. Such a failure will also continue to allow Catholics and people of good will to be scandalized. Even worse, it gives the impression that others may follow the behavior of wayward politicians with impunity.

Biden and Pelosi only did at the Vatican what they have been allowed to do at home. As the great Lutheran pastor Dietrich Bonheoffer stated so well, dear bishops; Not to act is to act!

Fr. Orsi is the chaplain at Ave Maria School of Law in Naples, Florida.


TOPICS: Catholic; Current Events
KEYWORDS: abortion; avemaria; catholic; catholicpoliticians; prolife
I think hell just froze over
1 posted on 03/21/2013 7:44:10 PM PDT by Morgana
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To: Morgana
I think hell just froze over

Or at least the Tiber.

2 posted on 03/21/2013 7:45:30 PM PDT by Alex Murphy ("If you are not firm in faith, you will not be firm at all" - Isaiah 7:9)
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To: Morgana
[the 1984] Cuomo, however, was never counseled not to receive Communion. Ever since, more and more Catholics have decided that they can make their own decisions as to what is right and wrong morally.

1984, and many years before that, the decades keep rolling on, presidential campaigns come and go, and nothing changes.

Catholics have supported Clinton, Clinton, Al Gore, Obama, and Obama, since 1984, today Joe Biden and Nancy Pelosi represent Catholics and America in swearing in the new Pope, and they receive communion at the Vatican itself.

3 posted on 03/21/2013 7:53:30 PM PDT by ansel12 (" I would not be in the United States Senate if it wasnt for Sarah Palin " Cruz said.)
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To: Morgana


4 posted on 03/21/2013 7:54:53 PM PDT by South40 (I Love The "New & Improved" Free Republic!)
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To: Morgana

The rule is: There are no rules.


5 posted on 03/21/2013 8:03:04 PM PDT by Jeff Chandler (WHAT DIFFERENCE DOES IT MAKE?)
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To: Morgana

It stinks.


6 posted on 03/21/2013 9:04:05 PM PDT by onedoug
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To: ansel12

The Anti-Catholics keep pushing the same nonsense on almost every Catholic thread.

It’s misleading propaganda and you know it. The Catholics who attend Church regularly voted overwhelmingly for Romney.

That statistic includes the “Catholics” who were baptized 20+ years ago, and have only seen the inside of a Church on Christmas and Easter. Additionally, it includes the influx of Hispanic Catholics, who worship big government more than they worship Jesus.


7 posted on 03/21/2013 9:06:06 PM PDT by HawkHogan
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To: ansel12

“today Joe Biden and Nancy Pelosi represent Catholics and America in swearing in the new Pope”

The hypocritical bastards sure as hell don’t represent me and my fellow REAL CATHOLICS I attend Mass with.


8 posted on 03/21/2013 9:11:03 PM PDT by NKP_Vet
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To: Morgana

Actually, a person takes personal responsibility when he/she takes communion in an unworthy manner and will ultimately face the consequences.

1 Corinthians 11:29-31

29 For those who eat and drink without discerning the body of Christ eat and drink judgment on themselves. 30 That is why many among you are weak and sick, and a number of you have fallen asleep. 31 But if we were more discerning with regard to ourselves, we would not come under such judgment.


9 posted on 03/21/2013 9:22:17 PM PDT by stars & stripes forever ((Blessed is the nation whose God is the Lord!))
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To: stars & stripes forever

“...and will ultimately face the consequences.”

May they face the consequences sooner than later...may the consequences be a whole lot worse than ‘excommunication’.


10 posted on 03/21/2013 9:33:29 PM PDT by GGpaX4DumpedTea (I am a Tea Party descendant...steeped in the Constitutional Republic given to us by the Founders.)
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To: Morgana

bfl


11 posted on 03/21/2013 9:40:02 PM PDT by TEXOKIE (We must surrender only to our Holy God and never to the evil that has befallen us.)
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To: HawkHogan

The nonsense is to deny the Catholic vote, by proclaiming that the majority of Catholics are not Catholic, they are, and they vote democrat.

The Catholic vote was devoted to the democrat party long before Hispanics ever showed up, but I agree that more Catholic immigration is the gift that the left has been praying for and receiving, it cost republicans California for instance, forever, with more to come.


12 posted on 03/21/2013 9:49:58 PM PDT by ansel12 (" I would not be in the United States Senate if it wasnt for Sarah Palin " Cruz said.)
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To: NKP_Vet

I agree, but we can’t pretend that they don’t represent the majority of Catholics and that the democrats have always represented the majority of Catholics, and that we need to fix that or we are doomed.


13 posted on 03/21/2013 9:52:27 PM PDT by ansel12 (" I would not be in the United States Senate if it wasnt for Sarah Palin " Cruz said.)
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To: Morgana

The Postal Service created a stamp with a picture of Nancy Pelosi.

The stamp was not sticking to envelopes. This enraged Pelosi, who demanded a full investigation.

After a month of testing, a special commission presented the following findings:

1) The stamp is in perfect order.

2) There is nothing wrong with the applied adhesive.

3) People are spitting on the wrong side. :)


14 posted on 03/21/2013 10:13:44 PM PDT by bronxville (Margaret Sanger - “We do not want word to go out that we want to exterminate the Negro population,)
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To: ansel12

So you are a Catholic, if you were at one point in your life, Baptized as a Catholic, and then you proceed to disregard all of its teachings and never attend Mass?


15 posted on 03/21/2013 10:39:50 PM PDT by HawkHogan
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To: HawkHogan

That is how the Catholic church counts it, in this case of voting though you have to also consider yourself a member of the Catholic denomination, if you don’t, then although the church calls you Catholic, you wouldn’t be counted as one as a voter.

For Protestants the category can mean never baptized, and you don’t have to belong to any church or have ever belonged to any church at all, you just need to say that you are a Christian.


16 posted on 03/21/2013 10:57:14 PM PDT by ansel12 (" I would not be in the United States Senate if it wasnt for Sarah Palin " Cruz said.)
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To: Morgana

God Bless this Catholic law priest.

Ignore those comments look discouraging, remember those are just OPINIONS only.


17 posted on 03/22/2013 3:41:40 AM PDT by Biggirl ("Jesus talked to us as individuals"-Jim Vicevich/Thanks JimV!)
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To: ansel12
"The nonsense is to deny the Catholic vote . . ."

No, it's nonsense for the same sort of folks who claim infanticide by contraceptive is Christ-like to pretend they even know what a Christian is.

Since such folks obviously worship their own, "Most High and Holy Self" rather than Jesus Christ, they're actually hilarious when they pretend they are an authority on who is or is not Catholic.

They're easy to identify because of the huge beams sticking out of their eyes. Beams, for example, like their insisting infant baptism is meaningless, then in their propaganda claiming anyone who was ever baptized as Catholic while an infant is permanently, without fail, a Catholic forever, no matter what they do or what the individuals themselves say to the contrary.

And that's only one of the huge contradictions the Self Alone Self Worshipers constantly repeat. They're the Triceratops of hypocritical contradictions personified, with never fewer than three beams sticking out of their eyes.

It takes someone under a very strong delusion to make that sort of contradiction and think others will agree with it.

18 posted on 03/22/2013 7:33:10 AM PDT by Rashputin (Jesus Christ doesn't evacuate His troops, He leads them to victory.)
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To: Rashputin
Uh, excuse me, but;

it wasn't some protestant who invented the "once a Catholic always a Catholic" phrase.

What's so jarringly weird about your full statement, is that you condemn those who insist as you put it, that "infant baptism is meaningless" when it's very much that infant baptism that makes so-called cradle Catholics, into being Roman Catholics in the first place.

That some outside the RCC point towards RC attitudes towards how they have in past centuries regarded membership in their own church, isn't a "beam in the eye" sort of thing, or some baseless fault of outsiders, at all.

Then again there are those high holy converts to the RCC who love nothing more than to shout how others are so condemned, for not being a convert like they are, even if they have to turn things around quite backwards to get'er' done.

19 posted on 03/22/2013 8:56:32 AM PDT by BlueDragon (the beatings will continue until morale improves)
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To: ansel12
I agree, but we can’t pretend that they don’t represent the majority of Catholics and that the democrats have always represented the majority of Catholics, and that we need to fix that or we are doomed.

I get your point. However, it's quite obvious that those who willfully ignore the Church's CLEAR TEACHING (whether they be labeled "Catholic" or "CINO" or something else) and support those who boo God at their convention and promote infanticide and sexual perversion are NOT Catholic by any measure. They have excommunicated themselves (latae sententiae). Unfortunately, this group may well include some nuns, priests, and even bishops. Spiritual blindness is the problem. The only way to "fix that" is through prayer.

20 posted on 03/22/2013 9:00:20 AM PDT by BlatherNaut
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To: Rashputin

You can fiddle and preen and attack the pro-life voting Protestants while Catholics vote for abortion, and we continue to import pro-abortion voting democrats by the millions, and state by state falls to the catholic vote, like California did.

I don’t understand that position, but it explains why the left begs for more catholic immigration.


21 posted on 03/22/2013 9:42:56 AM PDT by ansel12 (" I would not be in the United States Senate if it wasnt for Sarah Palin " Cruz said.)
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To: BlatherNaut

They haven’t “excommunicated” themselves and who cares about internal theological arguments within their denomination anyway.

What is of political concern is the Catholic vote, and what it does to America and what it means, and the fact that we are importing millions of those voters and that the left bases their hope for the future on the Catholic and secular vote.

If we keep importing Catholics, then what does that mean in the voting booth, it means that it is all over.


22 posted on 03/22/2013 9:48:42 AM PDT by ansel12 (" I would not be in the United States Senate if it wasnt for Sarah Palin " Cruz said.)
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To: ansel12; BlatherNaut
They haven’t “excommunicated” themselves . . ."

Be sure to correct Pope Emeritus Benedict XVI when he asks you about Canon Law or Church Doctrine.

The Pope was asked whether he supported Mexican Church leaders threatening to excommunicate leftist parliamentarians who last month voted to legalize abortion in Mexico City.

"Yes, this excommunication was not an arbitrary one but is allowed by Canon (church) law which says that the killing of an innocent child is incompatible with receiving communion, which is receiving the body of Christ," he said.

"They (Mexican Church leaders) did nothing new, surprising or arbitrary. They simply announced publicly what is contained in the law of the Church... which expresses our appreciation for life and that human individuality, human personality is present from the first moment (of life)".

Under Church law, someone who knowingly does or backs something which the Church considers a grave sin, such as abortion, inflicts what is known as "automatic excommunication" on themselves.

23 posted on 03/22/2013 10:05:13 AM PDT by Rashputin (Jesus Christ doesn't evacuate His troops, He leads them to victory.)
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To: Rashputin

You might want to notify the Pope and tell him that he wasn’t supposed to give Biden and Pelosi communion the other day, and you may want to let him know to update his figures on how many Catholics live in the United States, and reduce that official number by about 56%.

Do you expect to see the Vatican releasing new numbers of the catholic population in America, which are only 44% of the current numbers?

Do you think that the fact that 56% of American Catholics don’t exist at all, that they have been excommunicated, might be reported somewhere?


24 posted on 03/22/2013 10:42:32 AM PDT by ansel12 (" I would not be in the United States Senate if it wasnt for Sarah Palin " Cruz said.)
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To: Rashputin

I made a mistake, I thought that being excommunicated meant that you are no longer a Catholic, but it doesn’t.

“Excommunicated Catholics are still Catholics and remain bound by obligations such as attending Mass” so they are still Catholics anyway.


25 posted on 03/22/2013 10:58:07 AM PDT by ansel12 (" I would not be in the United States Senate if it wasnt for Sarah Palin " Cruz said.)
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To: BlatherNaut

See post 25.


26 posted on 03/22/2013 11:04:00 AM PDT by ansel12 (" I would not be in the United States Senate if it wasnt for Sarah Palin " Cruz said.)
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To: ansel12

Catholicism is not a denomination. It is the Church that Jesus founded on Peter and the Apostles in the Gospel. All others have broken away. Yes there are many who are not “good” Catholics and there will be up until the end. But to believe Jesus is to believe what He said,’ The gates of hell shall not prevail against it.” The Catholic Church is Holy partially because most of the people in it are already in Heaven.


27 posted on 03/22/2013 11:15:17 AM PDT by RichardMoore (There is only one issue- Life: dump TV and follow a plant based diet)
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To: RichardMoore

Of the Christian denominations in America, the Catholics are the largest one.


28 posted on 03/22/2013 11:29:22 AM PDT by ansel12 (" I would not be in the United States Senate if it wasnt for Sarah Palin " Cruz said.)
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To: Rashputin

I believe that the Pope corrected that statement and that the transcript was produced changing the language of what you posted.

“Church officials later said the pope may have thought the Mexican bishops had issued a formal declaration of excommunication for the legislators — something Mexican Cardinal Norberto Rivera has said he has no intention of doing.

Benedict’s spokesman, the Rev. Federico Lombardi, said the pope was not setting a new policy, and did not intend to formally excommunicate anyone — a rare process under church law that is separate from the doctrine of self-excommunication.

“Since excommunication hasn’t been declared by the Mexican bishops, the pope has no intention himself of declaring it,” Lombardi said in a statement approved by the pope.

But Lombardi added that politicians who vote in favor of abortion should not receive the sacrament of Holy Communion. “Legislative action in favor of abortion is incompatible with participation in the Eucharist. ... Politicians exclude themselves from Communion.”

Pressed again to say whether the lawmakers were excommunicated, Lombardi reiterated: “No, they exclude themselves from Communion.”


29 posted on 03/22/2013 11:33:42 AM PDT by ansel12 (" I would not be in the United States Senate if it wasnt for Sarah Palin " Cruz said.)
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To: ansel12
Nobody is attacking the pro-life voting protestants.

You, however, show an extremely shallow grasp on the subject of voter demographics if you blame the current situation on "the Catholic vote." Look at the migration patterns in Ohio, for example, and see that liberal sections of Ohio were settled by New Englanders (yankee Protestants, many of them), years and years ago, before liberalism as we know it existed. There are much deeper issues to be examined here than religion. You are simply conflating a single factor, religion, more specifically a religion you don't like, with the entire issue of liberal voting patterns.

The breakdown of voting Catholics, while leaning left, is still not to far off half-and-half.

The Protestant vote, while leaning right, is again not very very far off half-and-half (remember, the Methodist, Lutheran, Presbyterian, Black Baptist, and United Church Christ? All INSTITUTIONALLY liberal).

Furthermore, the left isn't begging for "Catholic immigration." I suppose by "Catholic" you mean Mexican, but the left doesn't care whether they are Catholic or not. They'll just as happily take muslim Somalis, buddhist Asians or Protestant Canadians.

The Protestant vote is only really conservative if you just look at Evangelicals while ignoring the mainline Protestant vote...Which you can't.

30 posted on 03/22/2013 11:43:26 AM PDT by Wyrd bi ful ard (Gone Galt, 11/07/12)
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To: Wyrd bið ful aræd

The democrats have only won the Protestant vote 3 times in history, 1932, 1936, and 1964.

The republicans have only won the catholic vote about 5 times in history.

The left and conservatives both know that catholic or non-Protestant immigration means the victory of the left over America, and that is why the left rewrote the immigration laws.

Democrats wrote a law to replace the American voter.

From unionizing government, to Vietnam, to the 1965 Immigration Act, JFK was the end of us.

“However, if there is one man who can take the most credit for the 1965 act, it is John F. Kennedy. Kennedy seems to have inherited the resentment his father Joseph felt as an outsider in Boston’s WASP aristocracy. He voted against the McCarran-Walter Act of 1952, and supported various refugee acts throughout the 1950s. In 1958 he wrote a book, A Nation of Immigrants, which attacked the quota system as illogical and without purpose, and the book served as Kennedy’s blueprint for immigration reform after he became president in 1960. In the summer of 1963, Kennedy sent Congress a proposal calling for the elimination of the national origins quota system. He wanted immigrants admitted on the basis of family reunification and needed skills, without regard to national origin. After his assassination in November, his brother Robert took up the cause of immigration reform, calling it JFK’s legacy. In the forward to a revised edition of A Nation of Immigrants, issued in 1964 to gain support for the new law, he wrote, “I know of no cause which President Kennedy championed more warmly than the improvement of our immigration policies.” Sold as a memorial to JFK, there was very little opposition to what became known as the Immigration Act of 1965.”


31 posted on 03/22/2013 11:51:24 AM PDT by ansel12 (" I would not be in the United States Senate if it wasnt for Sarah Palin " Cruz said.)
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To: ansel12
"The democrats have only won the Protestant vote 3 times in history, 1932, 1936, and 1964. The republicans have only won the catholic vote about 5 times in history."

Thats not the right way of thinking about it. Until the 1900 or so, the democrats were the party of rural, traditionally-minded people and the republicans were the social-tinkering urban-vote period-liberals (the populist party merging with the unions and farmer's alliances, then being led by Williams Jenning Bryan to merge with the democrat party, flipped the parties.)

But none that matters now. What matters is the modern and current election cycle.

Like I said, both the Catholic and Protestant vote is roughly half-democrat, half-republican. Percentage speaking more Protestants vote republican, but not significantly more. Yet your arguments seems to boil down to "neener neener its still more" rather than addressing the wider problem of a population-wide shift towards the left.

32 posted on 03/22/2013 12:04:31 PM PDT by Wyrd bi ful ard (Gone Galt, 11/07/12)
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To: Wyrd bið ful aræd

No, the reality is that the democrats never win the Protestant vote, and they almost never lose the Catholic vote, and they may never lose it again, in fact they probably won’t.

Catholic immigration is the end of the pro-life movement.

California went Catholic, and the hope of the left is that Texas will also, then they own the presidency forever.


33 posted on 03/22/2013 12:14:39 PM PDT by ansel12 (" I would not be in the United States Senate if it wasnt for Sarah Palin " Cruz said.)
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To: ansel12
If we keep importing Catholics, then what does that mean in the voting booth, it means that it is all over.

These "imported Catholics" (from south of the border?) you apparently disapprove of have merely served as "useful idiots" for the Protestant marxist president and his henchmen to manipulate for their own ends. Both political parties deliberately ignore the ramifications of the lax border policy, refusing to admit to the fact that if we have no border, we effectively have no country.

Whether the illegals are Catholics (or not) is really immaterial. Mexican voting patterns are a reflection of the Marxist culture that developed in the 1920's as a result of the Mexican Revolution (which the Church didn't support, as the Church opposes Marxism - see "Dominum et Vivificantem" if you're interested). The Church suffered horribly under the Marxist government, and it appears that under Obama history is beginning to repeat itself on the northern side of the border.

They haven’t “excommunicated” themselves

Of course they've excommunicated themselves. The Church has basically said to these people that they're on the road to hell as a result of their willful rejection of God's grace if they fail to repent.

34 posted on 03/22/2013 12:29:23 PM PDT by BlatherNaut
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To: BlatherNaut

The Catholic vote today is the same as it has always been in America, immigration from a more pure Catholic nation, founded as a Catholic nation by Catholics, hasn’t made any difference in it.


35 posted on 03/22/2013 12:39:40 PM PDT by ansel12 (" I would not be in the United States Senate if it wasnt for Sarah Palin " Cruz said.)
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To: ansel12
immigration from a more pure Catholic nation, founded as a Catholic nation by Catholics, hasn’t made any difference in it.

One cannot deliberately ignore history and Church teaching and expect to be taken seriously. Catholicism and Marxism are incompatible. Mexico has NOT been "a pure Catholic nation" for a long time now.

Here is an example of what marxist atheists did to Catholics in Mexico:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/cb/Cristeroscolgados.jpg

36 posted on 03/22/2013 1:56:23 PM PDT by BlatherNaut
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To: ansel12

The pro life movement is stronger than ever. Perhaps you should by the next Right to Life March in DC next year.

Romney won more of the white Catholic vote than Bush did in 2004.

Romney won White Catholics 60 percent to 40 percent. Hispanic Catholics are tipping more Catholics to Democrats.

However, they aren’t Catholics in the eyes of the faithful.


37 posted on 03/22/2013 3:12:14 PM PDT by HawkHogan
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To: BlatherNaut

You cannot make up things that I am not saying, Mexico is very much a catholic nation and always has been, it was as Catholic as America was Protestant before the mid 1800s, Mexico was 96% Catholic when I used to go there so frequently.

Being 96% Catholic is very pure, almost as pure as America was when it was founded, I didn’t say that the government is run by the Vatican, or that the Catholic people of Mexico have done a good job with their nation, just that they were a purely Catholic nation, meaning the denominational church membership of it’s people.

How many Catholic populations have adopted or become communist, or Marxist and didn’t mention it, I don’t know, I never looked into it, is there a lot of that in the most Catholic region of the world?


38 posted on 03/22/2013 3:13:58 PM PDT by ansel12 (" I would not be in the United States Senate if it wasnt for Sarah Palin " Cruz said.)
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To: HawkHogan

The pro-life movement is losing elections, even the GOP is threatening to abandon it.

White Catholics? Is the Catholic church “white”, or just the good Catholics?

Some conservative Catholics are defending and covering for the pro-abortion left by trying to conceal the Catholic vote and deny that it is majority democrat, thereby blocking efforts and awareness that they themselves should be leading, conservatives need to know how Catholics vote, and what millions more of them means to our goals.

It always has been the same, for more than a 100 years before Hispanics recently started arriving.

Hispanic Catholics aren’t changing that, since they only recently got here in large numbers the effect that they are having is keeping the Catholic vote in it’s traditional place, as the dwindling number of whites in the Catholic denomination, have in recent years become a little more conservative.

Besides, whether white or Hispanic, they still belong to the same denomination, Catholic, in fact Mexico has always been an almost purely Catholic nation.


39 posted on 03/22/2013 3:36:50 PM PDT by ansel12 (" I would not be in the United States Senate if it wasnt for Sarah Palin " Cruz said.)
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To: ansel12

White Catholics make a huge difference actually. Like I said, Romney won more White Catholics then even George Bush did in 04.

In fact,overall Bush won Catholics by 5 in 04, McCain loss Catholics by 9 in 08, and then Romney loss by 2 in 12. The Hispanic Catholics are the ones breaking for Obama.

It’s the equivalent of including black Protestants in the Protestant breakdown.

Certain demographics worship big government more than they did our Lord and Savior.


40 posted on 03/22/2013 6:05:20 PM PDT by HawkHogan
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To: HawkHogan

White Catholics have always voted democrat, recently, as the whites leave Catholicism, the remaining ones have started voting more republican, but it is too little too late, the Catholic vote will remain where it has always been, democrat.

Protestant blacks are counted in the Protestant vote, although many or most of them belong to black denominations, unlike Catholics who are all of a single denomination.

We aren’t importing black Protestants by the tens of millions.

Catholics voted Clinton, Clinton, Al Gore, Obama and Obama, it is how they traditionally vote.


41 posted on 03/22/2013 8:22:29 PM PDT by ansel12 (" I would not be in the United States Senate if it wasnt for Sarah Palin " Cruz said.)
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To: ansel12

Poland (Catholic) was the first Warsaw Pact nation to THROW OFF communism, inspired by Pope JPII and led by Lech Walesa.

The Soviet Union infiltrated the Vatican because it knew that Catholicism is the enemy of communism.

The Scandinavian nations (Protestant) are notoriously liberal and socialist. The other liberal (Protestant) nations in Europe that are strongly tending toward socialism are Great Britain and the Netherlands.

Secular humanism is at the root of this loss of freedom, NOT Catholicism (as you seem to be implying).


42 posted on 03/23/2013 7:57:53 AM PDT by BlatherNaut
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To: BlatherNaut

As a soldier in the Cold War and under Reagan, I knew about the Soviet Union, but I was more curious about the Americas and our Catholic border nation that you had described as Marxist and which is replacing the American voters.

“”Being 96% Catholic is very pure, almost as pure as America was when it was founded, I didn’t say that the government is run by the Vatican, or that the Catholic people of Mexico have done a good job with their nation, just that they were a purely Catholic nation, meaning the denominational church membership of it’s people.
How many Catholic populations have adopted or become communist, or Marxist” “I don’t know, I never looked into it, is there a lot of that in the most Catholic region of the world?””


43 posted on 03/23/2013 3:18:46 PM PDT by ansel12 (" I would not be in the United States Senate if it wasnt for Sarah Palin " Cruz said.)
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To: ansel12
How many Catholic populations have adopted or become communist, or Marxist”

Depends on your definition of "Catholic populations" (i.e. practicing Catholics versus poorly catechized members who do not adhere to the Church's teachings - IOW "Catholics in Name Only").

"While Latin-American Catholics are still more socially conservative than those in the United States and Europe, there’s still an important gap between popular religiosity and doctrinal adherence. Popular Catholicism across the region is a syncretic mix of precolonial beliefs, African-influenced religious practices, rural and popular folkways (such as shamanism and curanderismo), and personal and regional devotion to individual saints. To the persistent frustration of the Catholic hierarchy from colonial times to the present, Latin-American Catholics have had historically low rates of sacramental participation, especially among the poor. Relatively few nonelite couples, for instance, chose to participate in the sacrament of marriage. This practice goes back to the colonial period. Historically, Latin Americans have had markedly lower levels of Mass attendance than those in the United States".

http://commonwealmagazine.org/church-latin-america

It's disingenuous to attempt to implicate Catholicism as a causal factor of the growth of marxism/socialism by indicting some groups of baptized members who have either rejected or have failed to receive her teaching and thus fail to follow the "holy way".

44 posted on 03/23/2013 6:18:08 PM PDT by BlatherNaut
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To: BlatherNaut

Catholic population means a population of Catholics, especially a high portion of the Catholics in a population when talking about almost purely Catholic nations.

By the way, it would sure be better if you would just respond to own posts when posting to me rather than creating things that I haven’t said or claimed.


45 posted on 03/23/2013 6:28:09 PM PDT by ansel12 (" I would not be in the United States Senate if it wasnt for Sarah Palin " Cruz said.)
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