Posted on 03/23/2013 5:07:41 AM PDT by Colofornian
Does anyone know the story behind Lorenzo Snow marrying a sweet 16 year old girl...?
(Excerpt) Read more at forum.newordermormon.org ...
Its fifth "prophet" was Lorenzo Snow, the guy who perhaps more than any other Lds "prophet" reinforced the Mormon notion that God the Father was once a man who got the "god job" and that married temple Mormons can become rival-gods to THE god.
I found the following responses in this forum to Henry Jacobs' question most interesting:
From AllieOop:
I don't know which of his wives was from Mantua, but here is some info on his wives: Quote: "Before leaving Nauvoo, Snow accepted the principle of plural marriage and took four wives: Charlotte Squires (age 20), Mary Adaline Goddard (age 32), Sarah Ann Prichard (age 18 ), and Harriet Amelia Squires (age 26). Snow would later take several more wives: Eleanor Houtz (age 14), Mary Elizabeth Houtz (younger sister of Eleanor), Caroline Horton (age 29), Sarah Minnie Ephamina (age 16). Snow also wed the 17-year-old Pheobe Woodruff, the daughter of Wilford Woodruff. Snow fathered the child Rhea Lucile Snow at the age of 83 while serving as president of the LDS Church."
And:
I was too vague in my first post. I was really looking for information on the 16 year old Sarah Minnie Ephamina. I looked over on ancestry.com and her name is actually: "Sarah Minnie Ephramina Jensen" She was born in Brigham City in 1854 (Oct.10). Her parents are: "Hans Peter Jensen" and "Sarah Josephine Dinah Clawson". She married Lorenzo Snow on June 12, 1871 (SLC). She died on Jan. 2, 1908 (SLC). There are a lot more wives listed for Lorenzo Snow (actually too many to list here) over on ancestry.com (that weren't included in the quote above in my other post). Snow also married Sarah Minnie Jensen's sister, "Huldah Amelia Jensen".
And, responding to bugoy1's comment that: The first four you see were all the SAME DAY. Snow had just been appointed as an apostle. But you can't really accept that calling unless you're married - and not just married, but you have to have multiple wives (back then anyway). So yes, that would be quite the interesting honeymoon....
AllieOop added: Yeah, GREAT honeymoon....especially since two of them were sisters (the Squires sister). He also married a second set of sisters later.
I was also quite intrigued by ff42's comment on this forum:
Start here: http://www.lds.org/churchhistory/presidents/leaders.jsp, select Snow. Press "Significant Events" on the left. Notice no mention of wives or marriage. Now reference the Gospel Principles manual, page 181. "We can also intentionally deceive others ... by telling only part of the truth". Proof positive, by their own definition, that the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints actively and with fore-thought participates in "bearing false witness".
In other words, poster ff42 points the reader to this specific page on the Lds church Web site: Lorenzo Snow, 5th President of the Church...Biographical Sketch
You would think that if the Lds church valued women that a man's wife (or wives, in this case) would be worthy of a mention within a significant man's "biographical sketch." But, no, not with the Lds church's cover-up of its historical polygamy amongst its top dogs!
The Lds church published a series a "Presidents of the Church" books from approximately 1996-2010. They culled together these Presidents' most telling quotes from their lives, and injected biographical details. The problem was that NONE of these books mention the plural wives of these Mormon "prophets" into the 1940s! Talk about open Mormon church devaluing of women as wives and moms!!!!
Hence, ff42 cites the Mormon Sunday School manual, Gospel Principles (p. 181): "We can also intentionally deceive others ... by telling only part of the truth."
As ff42 says, "Proof positive, by their own definition, that the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints actively and with fore-thought participates in "bearing false witness".
(So it wasn't just "liberals" who have a history of militating vs. monogamy!)
And for those who might be tempted to argue that the Lds church "did away" with polygamy in 1890, then why...
...was it NOT until the 1940s that the Lds church had a non-polygamist president at its helm?
...did they secretly solemnize over 250 additional "plural unions" from 1890-1910?
...publish material in the 1960s and 1970s from Lds "apostle" Bruce McConkie that the Mormon jesus would re-institute this "sacred practice" when he returned?
...do they contend that polygamy carries forth into the afterlife not only for all these past polygamist "prophets" (& others) of the church, but also even its own CURRENT general authorities who have remarried after their first wives died?
Why do they claim that CURRENT monogamists like these because polygamists upon death?
And how is that to be considered "curtailing" polygamy when they promote it?
Whose material do you think was designated for 2013?
That's right, Lorenzo Snow...the guy who took a 14 yo "bride" as a third wife! ...The guy who was marrying four brides in a single day! The guy who was marrying a couple of pairs of sisters! [Even tho the Old Testament in the Bible clearly stated: 18 “‘Do not take your wife’s sister as a rival wife and have sexual relations with her while your wife is living. (Lev. 18:18)]
In before you’re called “hater” and “bigot” for posting the truth.
Well, this Snow character hasn’t dug near deep enough into the nursery to top that goatf**kin’ arab pedo the rags are so hot on
I’m not a Mormon, but I always understood the context of polygamy among the Mormons to be based on the very imbalanced female to male ratio of their early years. Without a father or husband, a woman would have no other practical way to provide for herself, other than by becoming a prostitute, which of course was frowned upon in Utah.
In addition to that, young men were effectively assigned wives that they could support within their means. And unmarried young men were seen as a threat to the community, more like the criminals that the Mormons eventually drove out of Utah, a former sanctuary to them in the West.
And in retrospect, these social policies seemed to work very well for Mormons as a whole.
Missed by this much!
Genesis
30
And when Rachel saw that she bare Jacob no children, Rachel envied her sister; and said unto Jacob, Give me children, or else I die.
2
And Jacob’s anger was kindled against Rachel: and he said, Am I in God’s stead, who hath withheld from thee the fruit of the womb?
3
And she said, Behold my maid Bilhah, go in unto her; and she shall bear upon my knees, that I may also have children by her.
4
And she gave him Bilhah her handmaid to wife: and Jacob went in unto her.
5
And Bilhah conceived, and bare Jacob a son.
6
And Rachel said, God hath judged me, and hath also heard my voice, and hath given me a son: therefore called she his name Dan.
7
And Bilhah Rachel’s maid conceived again, and bare Jacob a second son.
8
And Rachel said, With great wrestlings have I wrestled with my sister, and I have prevailed: and she called his name Naphtali.
9
When Leah saw that she had left bearing, she took Zilpah her maid, and gave her Jacob to wife.
10
And Zilpah Leah’s maid bare Jacob a son.
11
And Leah said, A troop cometh: and she called his name Gad.
12
And Zilpah Leah’s maid bare Jacob a second son.
13
And Leah said, Happy am I, for the daughters will call me blessed: and she called his name Asher.
Polygamy was/is away for men (mormon) to insure many children to populate their own plants which they will become gods of, the women of his planet are eternally pregnant.
And your point?
Just like Islam, a cult based on the men agreeing to trade their daughters to each other. At least Mormons changed.
mormonism still practices polygamy, it’s call celestial marriage.
“I’m not a Mormon, but I always understood the context of polygamy among the Mormons to be based on the very imbalanced female to male ratio of their early years. Without a father or husband, a woman would have no other practical way to provide for herself, other than by becoming a prostitute, which of course was frowned upon in Utah.”
A common LDS deception on the issue. In fact, the truth is, there were ALWAYS more men than women in Utah, both in the general population and in the church:
http://mormonthink.com/joseph-smith-polygamy.htm#more
Click on the section “more women than men?” for the statistics.
It also does not square with the actual history of polygamy among the Mormons. This was not something that they were all just practicing willy nilly. It started with Joseph Smith and his inner-circle who practiced polygamy in secrecy before they left to Utah.
Here is Mormon Apostle John A. Widtsoe refuting the idea as well, quoted from Mormon Thinker:
“”Plural marriage has been a subject of wide and frequent comment. Members of the Church unfamiliar with its history, and many non-members, have set up fallacious reasons for the origin of this system of marriage among the Latter-day Saints.
The most common of these conjectures is that the Church, through plural marriage, sought to provide husbands for its large surplus of female members. The implied assumption in this theory, that there have been more female than male members in the Church, is not supported by existing evidence. On the contrary, there seem always to have been more males than females in the Church...
The United States census records from 1850 to 1940, and all available Church records, uniformly show a preponderance of males in Utah, and in the Church. Indeed, the excess in Utah has usually been larger than for the whole United States, as would be expected in a pioneer state. The births within the Church obey the usual population law - a slight excess of males...
The theory that plural marriage was a consequence of a surplus of female Church members fails from lack of evidence...
Another conjecture is that the people were few in number and that the Church, desiring greater numbers, permitted the practice so that a phenomenal increase in population could be attained. This is not defensible, since there was no surplus of women...” (”Evidences And Reconciliation”, pgs 307 - 310, The Bookcraft Company, 1943, Salt Lake City, Utah)
Sorry, but you're superimposing myth into history.
I remember one specific poster who, I think like a lot of contemporary Mormons plus their allies, assumed that there was some glut of widowed women and that therefore, men just had to “step up” and “marry” them as a “plural wife.”
According to the Changing World of Mormonism, pp. 224-225: [LDS} "Apostle” John A. Widtsoe, who was born during the polygamy years (early 1870s) stated:
’We do not understand why the Lord commanded the practice of plural marriage.’ (Evidences and Reconciliations, 1960, p.393). One of the most popular explanations is that the church practiced polygamy because there was a surplus of women. The truth is, however, that there were less women than men. Apostle Widtsoe admitted that there was no surplus of women”: 'The implied assumption in this theory, that there have been more female than male members in the Church, is not supported by existing evidence. On the contrary, there seems always to have been more males than females in the Church.’.. The United States census records from 1850 to 1940, and all available Church records, uniformly show a preponderance of males in Utah, and in the Church. Indeed, the excess in Utah has usually been larger than for the whole United States, ... there was no surplus of women'” (Widtsoe, Evidences and Reconciliations, 1960, pp.390-92," as cited in Changing World, pp. 224-225).
Already beat ya to it, one post above :p.
You mean like the one young man who fancied a certain pretty young woman (who was interested also in the young man). But an old coot of a local Mormon leader had his eye on the woman. And the young man wouldn't back down; wouldn't be sent on a mission.
And so they castrated the young man...
What is entirely "interesting" is that the person who had the oversight of this mess was a "Snow"...Bishop Warren Snow of Manti:
"In Nauvoo it was the orders from Joseph Smith and his apostles to beat, wound and castrate all Gentiles that the police could take in the act of entering or leaving a Mormon household under circumstances that led to the belief that they had been there for immoral purposes.... In Utah it was the favorite revenge of old, worn-out members of the Priesthood, who wanted young women sealed to them, and found that the girl preferred some handsome young man. The old priests generally got the girls, and many a young man was unsexed for refusing to give up his sweetheart at the request of an old and failing, but still sensual apostle or member of the Priesthood. As an illustration...Warren Snow was Bishop of the Church at Manti, San Pete County, Utah. He had several wives, but there was a fair, buxom young woman in the town that Snow wanted for a wife.... She thanked him for the honor offered, but told him she was then engaged to a young man, a member of the Church, and consequently could not marry the old priest.... He told her it was the will of God that she should marry him, and she must do so; that the young man could be got rid of, sent on a mission or dealt with in some way... that, in fact, a promise made to the young man was not binding, when she was informed that it was contrary to the wishes of the authorities. "The girl continued obstinate.... the authorities called on the young man and directed him to give up the young woman. This he steadfastly refused to do.... He remained true to his intended, and said he would die before he would surrender his intended wife to the embraces of another.... The young man was ordered to go on a mission to some distant locality... But the mission was refused... "It was then determined that the rebellious young man must be forced by harsh treatment to respect the advice and orders of the Priesthood. His fate was left to Bishop Snow for his decision. He decided that the young man should be castrated; Snow saying, 'When that is done, he will not be liable to want the girl badly, and she will listen to reason when she knows that her lover is no longer a man.' "It was then decided to call a meeting of the people who lived true to counsel, which was held in the school-house in Manti... The young man was there, and was again requested, ordered and threatened, to get him to surrender the young woman to Snow, but true to his plighted troth, he refused to consent to give up the girl. The lights were then put out. An attack was made on the young man. He was severely beaten, and then tied with his back down on a bench, when Bishop Snow took a bowie-knife, and performed the operation in a most brutal manner, and then took the portion severed from his victim and hung it up in the school-house on a nail, so that it could be seen by all who visited the house afterwards. "The party then left the young man weltering in his blood, and in a lifeless condition. During the night he succeeded in releasing himself from his confinement, and dragged himself to some hay-stacks, where he lay until the next day, when he was discovered by his friends. The young man regained his health, but has been an idiot or quite lunatic ever since...."After this outrage old Bishop Snow took occasion to get up a meeting... When all had assembled, the old man talked to the people about their duty to the Church, and their duty to obey counsel, and the dangers of refusal, and then publicly called attention to the mangled parts of the young man, that had been severed from his person, and stated that the deed had been done to teach the people that the counsel of the Priesthood must be obeyed. To make a long story short, I will say, the young woman was soon after forced into being sealed to Bishop Snow. "Brigham Young... did nothing against Snow. He left him in charge as Bishop at Manti, and ordered the matter to be hushed up." (Ibid., pages 284-286)
Source: MORMONISM'S EARLY SECRETS
Btw, the one-time history prof at BYU -- D. Michael Quinn -- confirmed the castration account in his writings.
Good job!
mormonism still practices polygamy, it’s call celestial marriage [svcw]
Exactly.
Saying Mormons have changed would be like saying Muslims have "changed" re: having sleep-fests with 70-72 virgins.
And then where would part of that motivation lie with Muslims male martyrs?
And NOW they are going to HELL!!!
"Now if any of you will deny the plurality of wives, and continue to do so, I promise that you will be damned;
and I will go still further and say, take this revelation, or any other revelation that the Lord has given,
and deny it in your feelings, and I promise that you will be damned.
Brigham Young - JoD 3:266 (July 14, 1855)
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