Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Pope Francis said: "300 People Could Live Here!"
Canterbury Tales ^ | March 22, 2013 | Taylor Marshall

Posted on 03/23/2013 6:59:14 AM PDT by NYer

Bird's Eye View of Saint Peter's

& the Apostolic Palace

Our Holy Father Pope Francis has yet to take residence in the papal apartments known as the "Apostolic Palace" in the Vatican. If you've been to Rome, and you're facing the facade of Saint Peter's basilica, it would be to your right (to the north). Please see the photo above.

When escorted through the Apostolic Palace, Pope Francis is rumored to have exclaimed, "Three hundred people could live in here!"

In the mean time, Pope Francis has remained in the Vatican's guest house Domus Sanctae Marthae - House of Saint Martha, appropriately named after the saint of hospitality:

"Now it came to pass as they went, that he entered into a certain town: and a certain woman named Martha, received him into her house." (Lk 10:38)

This guest house has a common dining hall where Pope Francis has chosen to take his meals.

One of the important features of the papal apartment is the window from which the Pope appears every Wednesday for the Angelus, a message, and the blessing of items. There is also some speculation that Pope Francis may be moving his residence to the traditional cathedral of Rome - Saint John Lateran. This would conform to the Holy Father's identity as the Bishop of Rome since Saint John Lateran, not Saint Peter's Basilica is the true cathedral of the city.

(For more on the relationship between Saint John Lateran to the Vatican, please see my new book: The Eternal City: Rome & the Origins of Catholicism).



If the Holy Father moved to Saint John Lateran across the city, it would be a clear message that he wishes to be away from the Curia and ecclesiastical machinery.

Like other outward elements (black shoes, or whatever) these things don't ultimately matter. However, it does help us to understand the man who is Pope Francis. How he thinks. How he perceives his ministry as the Vicar of Christ. I find it all very fascinating.

Now it's your turn: What do you think? Would it be good for the Pope to insulate himself from the Apostolic Palace? Does the presence of the Pope at the Vatican provide checks and balances against a Curia that may need a little reining in? Please share a comment below.


TOPICS: Catholic; History; Religion & Culture; Religion & Politics
KEYWORDS:

1 posted on 03/23/2013 6:59:14 AM PDT by NYer
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: netmilsmom; thefrankbaum; Tax-chick; GregB; saradippity; Berlin_Freeper; Litany; SumProVita; ...
From the Commonweal blog

In a posting entitled "A smaller but purer Church?", dated October 21, 2010, Joseph A. Komonchak writes:


The phrase above is often attributed to Pope Benedict XVI. I have just googled it but not found it as his own expression, although many people attribute the idea to him. For example, in a story at the time of his election, I find this reference to our own David Gibson: “‘He has said himself that he wanted a smaller but purer church,’ Gibson said, referring to Ratzinger’s suggestion that Christianity may need to become smaller, in terms of its cultural significance, to remain true to itself.” In David’s book, The Rule of Benedict, there is a reference to the phrase in the context of a discussion of Ratzinger’s criticism of the German hierarchy during the Second World War for having allowed concern for institutional security to dull its awareness of what was going on under the Nazis. David writes:

Ratzinger says there was a German core that did remain faithful to Catholicism, but as cardinal and pope he would return to the theme of the dangers of privileging institutional ties, emphasizing that the church would do better to shed bricks and mortar–universities, hospitals, parochial schools, and the like–rather than have them animated by anything less than a purely orthodox faith. This is an element of his oft-cited preference for a “smaller but purer” church of the holy remnant. This preference for the minimum, the creed of the classical conservative he remains, would manifest itself in many ways, notably in an ingrained suspicion of national bishops’ conferences, which he saw in wartime Germany and later as acting in national-self-interest rather than in the interests of worldwide Catholicism.

This reference could suggest an argument along these lines: If the Catholic Church in Germany under the Nazis had been smaller but purer (e.g., if there had been more people like Franz Jägerstätter and fewer like his bishop), it would have provided a greater Christian witness against Hitler’s totalitarian regime than it did. I would agree with such an argument. Similarly, the massive institutional structure and apparatus of the Church can seriously compromise the freedom and eagerness of the Church to follow Christ as much as his possessions led the rich young man to depart saddened from his encounter with Christ because he had demanded that he sell all that he have, give it to the poor, and follow him along a path that would end at Calvary.

But I would like to be able to consult the place or places in which Ratzinger/Benedict speak of this “smaller but purer church”? Can anyone help?

Link, there are some interesting observations.


In his farewell greeting to the cardinals, Pope Benedict XVI said: "I desire to tell you that I will continue to remain close to you with prayer, especially in these next days, that you may be fully docile to the action of the Holy Spirit in the election of the new Pope. That the Lord will show you what he wants from you,” ref.

Your thoughts.

2 posted on 03/23/2013 6:59:51 AM PDT by NYer (Beware the man of a single book - St. Thomas Aquinas)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: NYer; Ron C.; wolfman23601; ColdOne; navymom1; Pat4ever; RIghtwardHo; Reaganite Republican; ...
+

Freep-mail me to get on or off my pro-life and Catholic List:

Add me / Remove me

Please ping me to note-worthy Pro-Life or Catholic threads, or other threads of general interest.

3 posted on 03/23/2013 7:02:26 AM PDT by narses
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: NYer
"300 People Could Live Here!"

I take it his holiness has not read Dr. Zhivago.

4 posted on 03/23/2013 7:09:06 AM PDT by Lonesome in Massachussets (What word begins with "O" and ends in economic collapse?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: NYer

What stuck me when reading was the tension of self preservation (during the Nazi reign) and being faithful to Christ. Which today is more a tension between spreading the faith and staying ‘relevant,’’ yet staying true to Christ and His teachings. I am for the latter. THe smaller, purer church and from that the throne will rise against evil continually with clear, pure vision and faithfulness.


5 posted on 03/23/2013 7:18:41 AM PDT by GOP Poet
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: NYer

Three hundred rich people.


6 posted on 03/23/2013 7:21:10 AM PDT by Berlin_Freeper (Paul Ryan 2016)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: GOP Poet
Excellent point. What struck me was:

but as cardinal and pope he would return to the theme of the dangers of privileging institutional ties, emphasizing that the church would do better to shed bricks and mortar–universities, hospitals, parochial schools, and the like–rather than have them animated by anything less than a purely orthodox faith.

Considering how Cardinal Bergoglio lived by example, we know that he chose to reside in a small apartment, rather than in the elegant bishop's residence in the suburb of Olivos. Since his election, several freepers have stated they are drawn to this man's humility and simple lifestyle. After being away from the church, they now feel called by him to come home. Oftentimes, reverts and converts are the ones who ignite the faith in others.

7 posted on 03/23/2013 7:48:07 AM PDT by NYer (Beware the man of a single book - St. Thomas Aquinas)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: NYer
Since his election, several freepers have stated they are drawn to this man's humility and simple lifestyle

That would be, IMHO, the main result of Pope Francis moving from the Apostolic Palace. There are people who, right or wrong, are turned off by the riches of the Catholic church and the lifestyle of the bishops. They will look at the example of Pope Francis and say "maybe the Church is right, after all". I am not a Catholic, but I can relate to him as a fellow Christian and an example of humility. I had never wished I could meet a Pope until now!

8 posted on 03/23/2013 8:31:44 AM PDT by Former Fetus (Saved by grace through faith)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Former Fetus
I had never wished I could meet a Pope until now!

He has made himself accessible to the multitudes. Even his security force are reluctant to admonish him for stepping out of the safety net. The Patriarch of Constantinople has invited Pope Francis to join him on a pilgrimage to the Holy Lands next year. Would that not be an amazing sight!

9 posted on 03/23/2013 8:43:21 AM PDT by NYer (Beware the man of a single book - St. Thomas Aquinas)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]

To: NYer

If the Pope indeed wants to “cure” the Curia problem, then he needs to wade right into the middle of it, that is to reside where the Curia operates - inside the Vatican. It he thinks living at a Cathedral on the other side of Rome is going to help him in this regard, he is very naive.

Then there is the matter of the millions of Catholics who pilgrimage to Rome and look to attending the Pope’s general audiences in St. Peter’s Square on Wednesdays and his appearance at the window of his living quarters.

Right now, all of this is speculation on the part of the media who just loves to stir the pot.


10 posted on 03/23/2013 9:16:01 AM PDT by CdMGuy
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: CdMGuy

I think he needs to live within Vatican City because it is a sovereign country apart from Italy. For the sake of maintaining independence from pressure of secular goverment and for personal security, he needs to be in his own country. Otherwise he is a resident of a country which allows a lot of stuff that the church doesn’t. And he is a security risk and headache for a country and city that will have his safety as a distraction from their normal security concerns.

I think occupying a smaller place in the palace, and inviting “roomates” to take up the additional space would be good. Maybe there are a group of third world seminarians who would need a place to stay while in Rome, or something like that.


11 posted on 03/23/2013 9:37:08 AM PDT by married21
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 10 | View Replies]

To: CdMGuy

I agree with your Curia comment. He needs to be there.


12 posted on 03/23/2013 9:40:12 AM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 10 | View Replies]

To: NYer

When we look at the cultures of South America/Africa/Asia, this does not surprise comment does not surprise me. However, I do think he needs to remain there for the Angelus greeting each week.


13 posted on 03/23/2013 9:41:40 AM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: NYer

I admire Francis’ desire to live a simpler life, but I am concerned with security.

His personal security is easily as important as any head of state, and his need for it is just as compelling.

I imagine there are plenty of nuts out there who would be motivated by such a world renowned target.


14 posted on 03/23/2013 9:46:58 AM PDT by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain and Proud of It! True supporters of our troops pray for their victory!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: NYer

A little different than being an Archbishop or the Bishop of Rome. Pope Francis is also the head of State of the Vatican, and thus needs that room when entertaining/hosting guests and priests from other countries.

I hope he reconsiders.

It’s the “head of state” thing that requires this space.


15 posted on 03/23/2013 10:39:28 AM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Lonesome in Massachussets

First thing that immediately came to my mind when I saw the title.

16 posted on 03/23/2013 10:41:08 AM PDT by dfwgator
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: NYer; a fool in paradise

Room and board? OK, where do I sign up?


17 posted on 03/23/2013 10:42:33 AM PDT by Revolting cat! (Bad things are wrong! Ice cream is delicious!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: NYer

I’m thinking Timeshares. 300 x 52 weeks...

Lots of cash to pay for the Lawyers.


18 posted on 03/23/2013 10:51:32 AM PDT by Kickass Conservative (Compliance with Tyranny is Treason...)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Former Fetus; NYer
There are people who, right or wrong, are turned off by the riches of the Catholic church and the lifestyle of the bishops.

"The riches of the Church," such as the cathedrals, the art, the vestments and liturgical furnishings, are part of the world's artistic patrimony and are largely accessible to anyone who can get to where they're located. Many portable items even go on travelling museum exhibits.

The lifestyles and residences of the heirarchy are a different issue, and should, in my opinion, be critically examined by the principals themselves, with the questions, "Is this apostolic? Is this evangelical? Is this the best use of resources to win souls?"

I think this is what Pope Francis is doing now, and has done as Archbishop and Bishop. To paraphrase George Weigel, it seems clear that the Pope sees himself, not as the CEO of an international corporation (who deserves a luxe corner office and fancy car, of course!), but as a shepherd of souls.

19 posted on 03/23/2013 11:28:10 AM PDT by Tax-chick (Why should I get Valium when wine comes in 5-liter boxes?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]

To: Tax-chick

I think you’re 100% right!


20 posted on 03/23/2013 11:43:27 AM PDT by Former Fetus (Saved by grace through faith)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 19 | View Replies]

To: NYer
we know that he chose to reside in a small apartment

Do we know anything at all about that apartment, or it's size?

21 posted on 03/23/2013 1:00:24 PM PDT by ansel12 (" I would not be in the United States Senate if it wasnt for Sarah Palin " Cruz said.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: ansel12
Do we know anything at all about that apartment, or it's size?

By now, the internet is flooded with photos of him before, during and after the conclave. The only description I can find is "small and simple". Here are some photos from before the conclave.


His mode of transportation


On board the bus


Visiting the needy


Washing and kissing the feed of youth


Kissing the feet of the disabled


Drinking his favorite beverage

I think we can conclude from how he ministered to the christian community in Buenos Aires and his actions since being elevated to pope - personally paying his hotel bill, riding the shuttle bus with the cardinals, celebrating 7 am mass with the Vatican workers, to stopping the popemobile, descending and going over to bless and embrace this man ....

.. and now learning that he does not want to reside in the papal apartments, that this pope genuinely embraces poverty, humility and has a pastor's heart.

God has sent us the right man for our time.

22 posted on 03/23/2013 1:31:54 PM PDT by NYer (Beware the man of a single book - St. Thomas Aquinas)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 21 | View Replies]

To: Kickass Conservative
Lots of cash to pay for the Lawyers.

Please clarify your statement; I really do not understand it.

23 posted on 03/23/2013 1:42:57 PM PDT by NYer (Beware the man of a single book - St. Thomas Aquinas)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 18 | View Replies]

To: xzins
I admire Francis’ desire to live a simpler life, but I am concerned with security.

You and the Gendarmerie. One Rome correspondent spoke to the head of his security detail and asked how things were going. He said he was touched by the sincere desire of the new pope to be among the people and that he and his team were watching out for him.

Individuals such as Pope Francis, place their total trust in God. They accept that such a public position comes with inherent risks while entrusting it to God. His will be done!

24 posted on 03/23/2013 1:50:25 PM PDT by NYer (Beware the man of a single book - St. Thomas Aquinas)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 14 | View Replies]

To: NYer
we know that he chose to reside in a small apartment

I thought that was a strange statement, since you know that we don't know anything at all about it really, not even it's size.

25 posted on 03/23/2013 3:21:09 PM PDT by ansel12 (" I would not be in the United States Senate if it wasnt for Sarah Palin " Cruz said.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: ansel12
I thought that was a strange statement, since you know that we don't know anything at all about it really, not even it's size.

We know that he gave up the Bishop's Residence in favor of a "small" apartment. Where os there any confusion? What are you suggesting? Why don't you research the size of his apartment and post it to the forum.

26 posted on 03/23/2013 3:43:36 PM PDT by NYer (Beware the man of a single book - St. Thomas Aquinas)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 25 | View Replies]

To: ansel12

Reportedly 56.6520021 square meters for tax purposes. The legal minimum size of an apartment in most of the EU is 9 sq meters and this would be a big closet. A one bedroom apartment is taken to be 70 sq meters or less.


27 posted on 03/23/2013 3:54:18 PM PDT by steve86 (Acerbic by Nature, not NurtureĀ™)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 25 | View Replies]

To: NYer
I thought that my question to you was appropriate and going to the right person.

To: NYer

we know that he chose to reside in a small apartment

Do we know anything at all about that apartment, or it's size?
21 posted on 3/23/2013 1:00:24 PM by ansel12

28 posted on 03/23/2013 4:22:49 PM PDT by ansel12 (" I would not be in the United States Senate if it wasnt for Sarah Palin " Cruz said.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 26 | View Replies]

To: steve86

Would you mind posting the link to the article?


29 posted on 03/23/2013 4:25:33 PM PDT by ansel12 (" I would not be in the United States Senate if it wasnt for Sarah Palin " Cruz said.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 27 | View Replies]

To: NYer
I'm in S. CA.

The Los Angeles Archdiocese is still being sued for Cardinal Mahony’s misconduct in protecting Pedophile Priests.

Before you ask, I was born and I will die a Catholic.

30 posted on 03/23/2013 9:47:05 PM PDT by Kickass Conservative (Compliance with Tyranny is Treason...)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 23 | View Replies]

To: married21; Salvation; NYer

Technically the ArchBasilica of St. John di Laterano is an exclave of the city-state of the Vatican. Which means, that just as hawaii is an outpost of the USA, St. John the Lateran as well as the other ArchBasilicas in Rome are not in Italy but in the city-state of the Vatican


31 posted on 03/25/2013 2:55:31 AM PDT by Cronos (Latin presbuteros->Late Latin presbyter->Old English pruos->Middle Engl prest->priest)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 11 | View Replies]

To: Cronos

Cool. Thanks for the information.


32 posted on 03/25/2013 7:02:09 AM PDT by married21
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 31 | View Replies]

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson