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[December 1971] The Only True and Living Church [Lds intolerantly claim]
Lds.org (Ensign magazine) ^ | December 1971 | Lds "apostle" Boyd K. Packer

Posted on 03/23/2013 4:02:29 PM PDT by Colofornian

SNIP

The position that The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is the only true church upon the face of the earth is fundamental. Perhaps it would be more convenient and palatable and popular if we were to avoid it; nevertheless, we are under a sacred obligation and a sacred trust to hold to it. It is not merely an admission; it is a positive declaration. It is so fundamental that we cannot yield on this point.

Now to those who think us uncharitable, we say that it was not devised by us; it was declared by Him, for he gave commandments to the early brethren, and I quote:

“… to lay the foundation of this church, and to bring it forth out of obscurity and out of darkness, the only true and living church upon the face of the whole earth, with which I, the Lord, am well pleased, speaking unto the church collectively and not individually.” (D&C 1:30.)

SNIP I bear witness that he is a prophet of God. I have a witness that Jesus is the Christ. He lives. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is the only true and living church upon the face of this earth, of which I bear witness in the name of Jesus Christ. Amen.

(Excerpt) Read more at lds.org ...


TOPICS: Other Christian; Other non-Christian; Theology
KEYWORDS: apostasy; inman; lds; mormonism; onlytruechurch
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This message was originally shared at the Lds official General Conference -- October, 1971: The Only True and Living Church

From the message/article: The position that The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is the only true church upon the face of the earth is fundamental...It is so fundamental that we cannot yield on this point.

"Elder" Packer then cites Lds "scripture" -- something that doesn't allow Mormons to "fudge" so easily on Packer's point: ...the ONLY true and living church upon the face of the whole earth, with which I, the Lord, am well pleased, speaking unto the church collectively and not individually.” (D&C 1:30.)

Then "Elder" Packer finishes off his piece with the Mormon testimonial "kicker": I bear witness that he is a prophet of God. I have a witness that Jesus is the Christ. He lives. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is the ONLY true and living church upon the face of this earth, of which I bear witness in the name of Jesus Christ. Amen.

1 posted on 03/23/2013 4:02:29 PM PDT by Colofornian
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To: All
So if I wanted to summarize in a chart the message the Mormon church gives...in equating worldwide Christianity and the worldwide Christian church to similar status that the Muslims accord Christians (Islam labels us "infidels"; Mormonism calls us "apostates")...it would be thus:

Snapshot of Joseph Smith’s Slanderous Invectives vs. Christian Sects

Mormon Source

[Note: Most of these are Mormon ‘scriptures'. In fact, First three rows below are Lds 'scripture' & therefore cannot be rug-swept any more than a Jew might try to take three commandments off of the very tablets of stone Moses brought down from the mountain]
“...which of all the sects was right… must join NONE of them, for they were ALL WRONG… those professors were ALL CORRUPT…” Joseph Smith – History vv. 18-19. – Lds "scripture" Pearl of Great Price
...“which of all the sects was right…ALL their CREEDS were an ABOMINATION in his sight…they teach for doctrines the commandments of MEN…” Joseph Smith – History vv. 18-19. – Lds "scripture" Pearl of Great Price
Mormon church the only ‘Christ-sanctioned’ church on earth: “…the foundation of this [Mormon] church…the ONLY true and living church on the face of the whole earth” [Obvious ‘scorched earth’ implication: All other churches are false and dead] Lds “scripture” Doctrines & Covenants 1:30
Direct question asked of Joseph Smith: 'Will everybody be damned, but Mormons?" Answer from Lds "prophet" Joseph Smith: 'Yes, and a great portion of them, unless they repent, and work righteousness." Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 119 [Not “scripture” – but still publicly spoken by the Mormon ‘living prophet’ and published by a later Mormon ‘living prophet,’ Joseph Fielding Smith – via a publisher owned by the Mormon church – Deseret News Press, 1938]
“In 1952…the first official proselyting plan was sent to missionaries throughout the world…It included seven missionary discussions that emphasized…[four topics, one of them being]THE APOSTASY and Restoration…” [This makes it 60 years that Mormon church missionaries, now numbering 55,000, have formally emphasized in its training & door to door saturation a priority in bashing the worldwide Christian church as “apostates” (100% AWOL)] Our Heritage: A Brief History of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints p. 116, 1996

2 posted on 03/23/2013 4:05:52 PM PDT by Colofornian
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To: Colofornian

The lds THX 1138 march continues........


3 posted on 03/23/2013 4:11:09 PM PDT by svcw (Why is one cell on another planet considered life, and in the womb it is not.)
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To: All
Please note: Similar thread -- also just posted: The Only True Church [Lds intolerantly claim to be ONLY face-of-earth true church, 1985, Round II]
4 posted on 03/23/2013 4:19:28 PM PDT by Colofornian
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To: Colofornian
The Only True and Living Church [Lds intolerantly claim in '71 to be ONLY face-of-earth true church]

How is that "Intolerance?" If it is the True Church then it is ipso facto the only such or are there many conflicting truths? Is truth then merely a relative term that describes nothing fixed? By this standard anyone who believes he knows the truth is INTOLERANT!

5 posted on 03/23/2013 4:36:12 PM PDT by ThanhPhero (Khach hanh huong den La Vang)
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To: Colofornian

Placemarker


6 posted on 03/23/2013 4:36:22 PM PDT by aMorePerfectUnion (Gone rogue, gone Galt, gone international, gone independent. Gone.)
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To: svcw

The Catholic Church taught the same thing when I was growing up.

At least the nuns that taught me did-—it was mentioned over,and over,and over.

.


7 posted on 03/23/2013 4:41:49 PM PDT by Mears
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To: ThanhPhero
How is that "Intolerance?" If it is the True Church then it is ipso facto the only such or are there many conflicting truths? Is truth then merely a relative term that describes nothing fixed? By this standard anyone who believes he knows the truth is INTOLERANT!

Well, allow me to cite Jesus Himself, as found in John 10:16:
16 I have OTHER sheep that are NOT of this sheep pen. I must bring them also. They too will listen to my voice, and there shall be one flock and one shepherd.

The Mormon claim is essentially that there are no other sheep in any other "sheep pen."

Conformity is the mormon way...their way or the highway.

Diversity alone (apartness) is the world's way...their way of "tolerance preaching" or the highway.

But God Himself is Diversity (Father, Son, Spirit) within Unity -- one God.

The true church is Diversity (multiple denominations) within Unity -- one Body of Christ.

(Thanks for asking)

8 posted on 03/23/2013 4:54:27 PM PDT by Colofornian
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To: Colofornian

Wow. Eighteen centuries after Jesus Christ established His church, He decided to re-invent it through some Smith guy.

Whatever.


9 posted on 03/23/2013 5:31:43 PM PDT by 353FMG ( I do not indicate whether I am serious or sarcastic -- I respect FReepers too much.)
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To: 353FMG

Just like fourteen centuries after God established His religion, He decided to re-invent it through some guy...


10 posted on 03/23/2013 5:35:11 PM PDT by jjotto ("Ya could look it up!")
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To: ThanhPhero; Colofornian
How is that "Intolerance?" If it is the True Church then it is ipso facto the only such or are there many conflicting truths?

That is a lucid, logical argument. You are correct. Logically, there can be only one truth that corresponds to reality. Once the laws of logic are equally applied to LDS and orthodox Christianity, one is found wanting, to the point that it can be easily eliminated as the church by light of Scripture. Once the laws of logic are applied, here is what is found concerning the two (I added Islam because LDS follows the same model):

Islam doctrinal model: Bible has revelation, but the advent of the Quran (and other writings), they trump previously known and held divine revelation; additional revelation or interpretation can be announced by a closed group of scholars. In Islam's case, such religious rulings can be limited to regional in scope, and can be withdrawn.

LDS doctrinal model: Bible has revelation, but with the advent of the book of Mormon (and other writings), they trump previously known and held divine revelation; additional revelation or interpretation can be announced by a closed group of scholars.

Christian model: Bible is the only Scripture, there is no further revelation to men, (apart from individual revelation given by the Holy Spirit; which never comes in conflict with Scripture); there is no closed group of scholars dictating biblical interpretation: all theologians can be challenged by anyone in the church-- yes, even the lowliest believing janitor.

11 posted on 03/23/2013 5:39:12 PM PDT by Salvavida (The restoration of the U.S.A. starts with filling the pews at every Bible-believing church.)
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To: 353FMG

Silly...

Tweeting only came in Reforned Egyptian in those days...

Joey Smith had to retweet in Elizabethan English...

Why Elizabethan English in 1829, 200 years after and when it was no longer used in speech or written communication ???

because it was the language of the prophets...

Thou shalt know a prophet by his use of thee tongue of the prophet Shakespeare...Monson 43:167

and it cameth tooth passeth...


12 posted on 03/23/2013 5:48:58 PM PDT by Tennessee Nana
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To: Salvavida

How does believing one knows the truth make one intolerant? That is the question. It is saying that if I believe you to be in error then I am ipso facto intolerant. Tolerance means to allow the tolerated person to live and to participate in society, not to accept the tolerated person’s ideas as being as valid as one’s own. If you are labeling the LDS as “intolerant” then it is because you don’t agree with them because I don’t think you think they must be killed.


13 posted on 03/23/2013 5:52:04 PM PDT by ThanhPhero (Khach hanh huong den La Vang)
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To: Colofornian

Sounds like one of those monotheistic belief systems. The upstart and intolerant newcomers. Polytheists and pantheists are not impressed.


14 posted on 03/23/2013 5:53:31 PM PDT by S.O.S121.500 (Half black,half white......A SKUNK?........................ENFORCE THE BILL OF RIGHTS.(It"s the Law))
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To: Colofornian

That does not speak to the meaning of “intolerant” and is wrongheaded as well. Jesus was telling his Jewish disciples that his ministry was not limited to the Jews.


15 posted on 03/23/2013 5:54:26 PM PDT by ThanhPhero (Khach hanh huong den La Vang)
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To: ThanhPhero

I agree with you, as I stated. Your use of the laws of logic are sound. But to expand on what you said, there is only one truth. Truth is exclusive. If we say something is true, then all other possibilities are false.


16 posted on 03/23/2013 5:59:01 PM PDT by Salvavida (The restoration of the U.S.A. starts with filling the pews at every Bible-believing church.)
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To: 353FMG; truth_seeker
Wow. Eighteen centuries after Jesus Christ established His church, He decided to re-invent it through some Smith guy. Whatever.

(Yeah, in some of Smith's several "versions" of this "first vision" of unnamed entities appearing to Smith..."versions" all written more than a dozen years after the alleged "visitations"...he's 14 yo...other times he's 16 yo...like he couldn't remember...

Imagine that.

Unnamed entities appearing to a pimply-faced 14 yo boy...and you stake 10%+ of your lifetime investment on it...+ your very eternal life...

17 posted on 03/23/2013 6:03:35 PM PDT by Colofornian
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To: Mears

The Church of Christ taught that to me when I was growing up. I remember when Pat Boone strayed from that belief and embraced the Charismatic Movement. We were told he was going to hell.

Later I heard a joke about St. Peter giving someone a tour of heaven. As they walked by a closed door he said “Shh, that’s where the Church of Christ are. Thet think they’re the only ones here.”


18 posted on 03/23/2013 6:08:37 PM PDT by Burkean (.)
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To: ThanhPhero; Salvavida
Jesus was telling his Jewish disciples that his ministry was not limited to the Jews.

And when Jesus says in John 10:16 that "They too will listen to my voice..." He is describing sheep of another stripe.

Just as the Pharisees were intolerant toward the Samaritans, and Jesus used a parable of the Good Samaritan to get their attention to their intolerance of all Samaritans, and just as Paul had to have it out with Peter (Cephas) over Jewish intolerance to the Gentiles, so it's been with the Mormons.

That does not speak to the meaning of “intolerant” and is wrongheaded as well.

Sure it was intolerance -- just like some of the Jews were intolerant toward Gentiles being grafted into God's people:

Look at Galatians 2: They agreed that we should go to the Gentiles, and they to the circumcised. 10 All they asked was that we should continue to remember the poor, the very thing I had been eager to do all along. 11 When Cephas came to Antioch, I opposed him to his face, because he stood condemned. 12 For before certain men came from James, he used to eat with the Gentiles. But when they arrived, he began to draw back and separate himself from the Gentiles because he was afraid of those who belonged to the circumcision group. 13 The other Jews joined him in his hypocrisy, so that by their hypocrisy even Barnabas was led astray.

'Twas outright hypocrisy, as Paul says. 'Twas intolerance on the part of Peter. 'Twas wrongheaded on the part of Peter.

19 posted on 03/23/2013 6:11:28 PM PDT by Colofornian
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To: Salvavida; ThanhPhero
But to expand on what you said, there is only one truth. Truth is exclusive. If we say something is true, then all other possibilities are false.

Look, in marriage, to be "true" to one and only is indeed exclusive.

And, truth disseminated is "locked in"...but truth on the receiving side is not often as "boundary-ized" as we present it.

We want to carefully codify it. And too oft limit to who's receiving it -- and of greater import, receiving Him who is truth: Jesus said: "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father but by Me." (John 14:6)

Iow, Jesus Himself is the Personal Living Truth; and His relationships extend beyond who we want to carefully hermetically seal them around.

Jesus is the Living Truth, the Living Way -- the exclusive Way to the Father. Yet He also said: 39 You study the Scriptures diligently because you think that in them you have eternal life. These are the very Scriptures that testify about me, 40 yet you refuse to come to me to have life. (John 5)

Iow, some people relate only to the Bible -- failing to realize the Bible simply points to Christ as a current living relationship lived out 24/7 (see John 17:3).

They wind up aborting this process about "truth" -- relating to pieces of paper -- vs. the Living Truth, Jesus Christ.

Truth as propositions are indeed "Fixed." And Christ Himself doesn't change. Just don't pretend that your "beat" on Christ as The Living Truth is so precisely "fixed" that we are able to "rule out" who some of His people are -- or will be.

20 posted on 03/23/2013 6:22:49 PM PDT by Colofornian
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To: Burkean

A believing Mormon here — yes, I believe that the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is the only church on earth authorized by Jesus, but certainly don’t believe that everyone else is going to hell. All will be judged perfectly by a just and merciful God, and I believe that great rewards await people from all faiths, who love God and love their neighbors as Jesus taught.


21 posted on 03/23/2013 6:29:23 PM PDT by Normandy
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To: Burkean

““Shh, that’s where the Church of Christ are. Thet think they’re the only ones here.””

I love it :-)

.


22 posted on 03/23/2013 6:38:11 PM PDT by Mears
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To: Normandy

KolobKolobKolobKolobKolobKolobKolobKolobKolobKolobKolobKolobKolobKolobKolobKolobKolobKolobKolobKolobKolobKolobKolobKolobKolobKolobKolobKolobKolobKolobKolobKolobKolob


23 posted on 03/23/2013 7:05:46 PM PDT by elcid1970 ("The Second Amendment is more important than Islam.")
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To: jjotto

“Just like fourteen centuries after God established His religion, He decided to re-invent it through some guy...”


He didn’t “reinvent it,” He fulfilled it. And “some guy” is God, prophesized in all of the Holy Scripture.

Joh_1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.


24 posted on 03/23/2013 7:08:58 PM PDT by Greetings_Puny_Humans
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To: ThanhPhero

“How does believing one knows the truth make one intolerant? That is the question.”


Let them believe it. And when they demand to be numbered as Christians right along side us, we’ll remind them of it.


25 posted on 03/23/2013 7:11:12 PM PDT by Greetings_Puny_Humans
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To: Normandy

“A believing Mormon here — yes, I believe that the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is the only church on earth authorized by Jesus, but certainly don’t believe that everyone else is going to hell.”


Of course not. The LDS is generally Universalist, albeit the believing Mormon, who manages to be within that 15% of Temple Recommends, and, most importantly, gets married in the temple, gets to dwell with Heavenly Father and become Gods of their own planets; whereas the wicked and unbelieving are doomed to the lower degrees of glory, whose punishment consists of envying Mormons for all eternity, who, from time to time, only get visited by Christ, who is another god just like your average Mormon believer.

That is, except, perhaps for the apostates, and the Devil and his angels, who stay in outer darkness.

“All will be judged perfectly by a just and merciful God, and I believe that great rewards await people from all faiths, who love God and love their neighbors as Jesus taught.”


Jesus taught no such thing. He taught that salvation is through Him only, and all those who do not believe are condemned already.

Joh_3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

Christ declared that salvation is the work of God alone, that all divine truths are revealed by the Father and not by man, and that He is the resurrection and the life by whom sinners are made clean.

Joh 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Joh 6:64-65 But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray him. (65) And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.

Joh_15:16 Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you.

Mat_16:17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.

1Co_12:3 ... and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.

Act_13:48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.

Rom_9:16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.

Eph 2:8-9 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: (9) Not of works, lest any man should boast.

It does not matter how much you claim to work the works of God, or to do this or that. Salvation is by grace, without the working of the law, to all those who believe; and it is God who is sovereign in the lives of men.

Your doctrine denies this, and so, you deny and disbelieve Christ.


26 posted on 03/23/2013 7:24:21 PM PDT by Greetings_Puny_Humans
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To: Colofornian

Yes we believe that Christ himself stated that all of the “Creeds” of Christiandom was an abomination to him.

After studying the conflict, political expediency and the forced compromise, I can completely understand why.

LDS belief in Christ is similar to that that existed before the Nicene Creed and is similar to that espoused by Tertullian in “Against Praxeas”


27 posted on 03/23/2013 7:25:22 PM PDT by teppe (... for my God ... for my Family ... for my Country ....)
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To: teppe

“LDS belief in Christ is similar to that that existed before the Nicene Creed and is similar to that espoused by Tertullian in “Against Praxeas””


Really? Why, I suppose you’ll point to the scripture that establish:

Polygamy

Polyandry

Polytheism

Man-to-God

Works-Righteousness

Secret Handshakes for to get into heaven

Baptism of the dead

And so on and so forth.


28 posted on 03/23/2013 7:33:30 PM PDT by Greetings_Puny_Humans
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To: Greetings_Puny_Humans

Numbers 23:19 God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do it? or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good?


29 posted on 03/23/2013 7:49:16 PM PDT by jjotto ("Ya could look it up!")
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To: jjotto

“Numbers 23:19 God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do it? or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good?”


What, are you denying that Christ is God? God is not a man — that He should lie.

Christ is God with Us, who never told a lie.

Mat_1:23 Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.

And there is only ONE God:

Isa_45:21 ... and there is no God else beside me; a just God and a Saviour; there is none beside me.

Isa_44:8 ... Is there a God beside me? yea, there is no God; I know not any.


30 posted on 03/23/2013 7:52:08 PM PDT by Greetings_Puny_Humans
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To: Greetings_Puny_Humans

http://noahide-ancient-path.co.uk/index.php/judaism-articles/2011/05/the-path-of-the-righteous-gentile/


31 posted on 03/23/2013 7:59:33 PM PDT by jjotto ("Ya could look it up!")
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To: jjotto

http://noahide-ancient-path.co.uk/index.php/judaism-articles/2011/05/the-path-of-the-righteous-gentile/";


Not interested in your Noahide nonsense, which denies the Old Testament just as much as the New.


32 posted on 03/23/2013 8:08:35 PM PDT by Greetings_Puny_Humans
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To: Greetings_Puny_Humans

Many people are only interested in their own opinions. Those who know everything can never learn anything new.


33 posted on 03/23/2013 8:11:26 PM PDT by jjotto ("Ya could look it up!")
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To: jjotto

“Many people are only interested in their own opinions. Those who know everything can never learn anything new.”


Aye, you define yourself well. If I am wrong, show me from the scripture. Don’t spam me with links and flippant comments.


34 posted on 03/23/2013 8:17:00 PM PDT by Greetings_Puny_Humans
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To: Greetings_Puny_Humans

Deuteronomy 17
9 And thou shall come unto the priests the Levites, and unto the judge that shall be in those days; and thou shalt inquire; and they shall declare unto thee the sentence of judgment.
10 And thou shalt do according to the tenor of the sentence, which they shall declare unto thee from that place which the LORD shall choose; and thou shalt observe to do according to all that they shall teach thee.
11 According to the law which they shall teach thee, and according to the judgment which they shall tell thee, thou shalt do; thou shalt not turn aside from the sentence which they shall declare unto thee, to the right hand, nor to the left.

Deuteronomy 30
11 For this commandment which I command thee this day, it is not too hard for thee, neither is it far off.
12 It is not in heaven, that thou shouldest say: ‘Who shall go up for us to heaven, and bring it unto us, and make us to hear it, that we may do it?’
13 Neither is it beyond the sea, that thou shouldest say: ‘Who shall go over the sea for us, and bring it unto us, and make us to hear it, that we may do it?’
14 But the word is very nigh unto thee, in thy mouth, and in thy heart, that thou mayest do it.


35 posted on 03/23/2013 8:23:13 PM PDT by jjotto ("Ya could look it up!")
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To: jjotto

Having established that we are to obey God, why then do you not believe God when He says that His son would be God with Us?

Isa_7:14 Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel. (Immanuel, being interpreted means God with us.)

Why do you deny that Christ would come, to die for our sins, and be risen again, by whom we would be justified?

Isa 53:5 But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.

Isa 53:7-12 He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth. (8) He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken. (9) And he made his grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death; because he had done no violence, neither was any deceit in his mouth. (10) Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand. (11) He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities. (12) Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.

Why do you not believe the Prophet Daniel, who said that Christ should come within a very specific set time, which would conclude with the destruction of the Jewish temple?

Dan 9:22-27 And he informed me, and talked with me, and said, O Daniel, I am now come forth to give thee skill and understanding. (23) At the beginning of thy supplications the commandment came forth, and I am come to shew thee; for thou art greatly beloved: therefore understand the matter, and consider the vision. (24) Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy. (25) Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times. (26) And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined. (27) And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

But yet, you believe none of it, and so much more than just that!


36 posted on 03/23/2013 8:40:55 PM PDT by Greetings_Puny_Humans
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To: teppe; Godzilla; ejonesie22; All
LDS belief in Christ is similar to that that existed before the Nicene Creed and is similar to that espoused by Tertullian in “Against Praxeas”

ALL: Godzilla already refuted Teppe with this lame claim in this thread from two years ago: Why is Huntsman’s Mormonism “Tough to Define”?

See 'Zilla's comments in posts #55, #58, #61, #63, #67, #68, #82, #85...

Teppe consistently shows he has no idea how to grasp historical tenets within the Christian faith...all becomes one tangled mess to him.

God bless Godzilla & Ejonesie22 for trying, tho!

37 posted on 03/23/2013 9:54:54 PM PDT by Colofornian
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To: Normandy
A believing Mormon here — yes, I believe that the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is the only church on earth authorized by Jesus, but certainly don’t believe that everyone else is going to hell.

Hecky durn!

You don't even 'believe' that you MORMONs are going to HELL; either!

You DENY the very words of Brigham HYoung: the Great Builder of MORMONism in the West!!


"Now if any of you will deny the plurality of wives, and continue to do so, I promise that you will be damned;

and I will go still further and say, take this revelation, or any other revelation that the Lord has given,

and deny it in your feelings, and I promise that you will be damned.

Brigham Young - JoD 3:266 (July 14, 1855)

38 posted on 03/24/2013 3:28:42 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Normandy
You DENY the very words of Brigham ...


Thereby incurring the Spirit of Apostacy upon your soul!!

Do I need to DOCUMENT what happens to a MORMON when THIS happens???

39 posted on 03/24/2013 3:29:56 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Normandy
...and I believe that great rewards await people from all faiths, who love God and love their neighbors as Jesus taught.

What knid of a MORMON are you???You should know perfectly well that only about 15% of ALL mormons will get to live where GOD dwells forever.

That sure as HELL is NOT a 'great reward'!

Stuck at level #2 for ETERNITY with us damned (partialy) GENTILES!!!

40 posted on 03/24/2013 3:32:49 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Greetings_Puny_Humans; jjotto

He’s talking about Luther; trying to drag a red herring across thr trail.


41 posted on 03/24/2013 3:34:34 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Greetings_Puny_Humans; Normandy
And when they demand to be numbered as Christians right along side us, we’ll remind them of it. the words of their leaders on the subject!



Questions put to Joseph Smith: "'Do you believe the Bible?' [Smith:]'If we do, we are the only people under heaven that does, for there are none of the religious sects of the day that do'. When asked 'Will everybody be damned, but Mormons'? [Smith replied] 'Yes, and a great portion of them, unless they repent, and work righteousness." (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 119).
Joseph Smith: "for the teachers of religion of the different sects understood the same passages of scripture so differently as to destroy all confidence in settling the question by an appeal to the Bible" (from Pearl of Great Price 1:12). "What is it that inspires professors of Christianity generally with a hope of salvation? It is that smooth, sophisticated influence of the devil, by which he deceives the whole world" (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p.270).
 
 
 
Brigham Young stated this repeatedly: "When the light came to me I saw that all the so-called Christian world was grovelling in darkness" (Journal of Discourses 5:73); "The Christian world, so-called, are heathens as to the knowledge of the salvation of God" (Journal of Discourses 8:171); "With a regard to true theology, a more ignorant people never lived than the present so-called Christian world" (Journal of Discourses 8:199); "And who is there that acknowledges [God's] hand? ...You may wander east, west, north, and south, and you cannot find it in any church or government on the earth, except the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints" (Journal of Discourses , vol. 6, p.24); "Should you ask why we differ from other Christians, as they are called, it is simply because they are not Christians as the New Testament defines Christianity" (Journal of Discourses 10:230).
 
 
 
Orson Pratt proclaimed: "Both Catholics and Protestants are nothing less than the 'whore of Babylon' whom the Lord denounces by the mouth of John the Revelator as having corrupted all the earth by their fornications and wickedness. Any person who shall be so corrupt as to receive a holy ordinance of the Gospel from the ministers of any of these apostate churches will be sent down to hell with them, unless they repent" (The Seer, p. 255).
 
 
 
Orson Pratt also said: "This great apostasy commenced about the close of the first century of the Christian era, and it has been waxing worse and worse from then until now" (Journal of Discourses
, vol.18, p.44) and: "But as there has been no Christian Church on the earth for a great many centuries past, until the present century, the people have lost sight of the pattern that God has given according to which the Christian Church should be established, and they have denominated a great variety of people Christian Churches, because they profess to be ...But there has been a long apostasy, during which the nations have been cursed with apostate churches in great abundance" (Journal of Discourses , 18:172).
 
 
President John Taylor stated: "Christianity...is a perfect pack of nonsense...the devil could not invent a better engine to spread his work than the Christianity of the nineteenth century." (Journal of Discourses , vol. 6, p.167); "Where shall we look for the true order or authority of God? It cannot be found in any nation of Christendom." (Journal of Discourses , 10:127).
 
 
 
James Talmage said: "A self-suggesting interpretation of history indicates that there has been a great departure from the way of salvation as laid down by the Savior, a universal apostasy from the Church of Christ". (A Study of the Articles of Faith, p.182).
 
 
 
President Joseph Fielding Smith said: "Doctrines were corrupted, authority lost, and a false order of religion took the place of the gospel of Jesus Christ, just as it had been the case in former dispensations, and the people were left in spiritual darkness." (Doctrines of Salvation, p.266). "For hundreds of years the world was wrapped in a veil of spiritual darkness, until there was not one fundamental truth belonging to the place of salvation ...Joseph Smith declared that in the year 1820 the Lord revealed to him that all the 'Christian' churches were in error, teaching for commandments the doctrines of men" (Doctrines of Salvation, vol. 3, p.282).
 
 
 
More recent statements by apostle Bruce McConkie are also very clear: "Apostasy was universal...And this darkness still prevails except among those who have come to a knowledge of the restored gospel" (Doctrines of Salvation, vol 3, p.265); "Thus the signs of the times include the prevailing apostate darkness in the sects of Christendom and in the religious world in general" (The Millennial Messiah, p.403); "a perverted Christianity holds sway among the so-called Christians of apostate Christendom" (Mormon Doctrine, p.132); "virtually all the millions of apostate Christendom have abased themselves before the mythical throne of a mythical Christ whom they vainly suppose to be a spirit essence who is incorporeal uncreated, immaterial and three-in-one with the Father and Holy Spirit" (Mormon Doctrine, p.269); "Gnosticism is one of the great pagan philosophies which antedated Christ and the Christian Era and which was later commingled with pure Christianity to form the apostate religion that has prevailed in the world since the early days of that era." (Mormon Doctrine, p.316).
 
 
 
President George Q. Cannon said: "After the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints was organized, there were only two churches upon the earth. They were known respectively as the Church of the Lamb of God and Babylon. The various organizations which are called churches throughout Christendom, though differing in their creeds and organizations, have one common origin. They all belong to Babylon" (Gospel Truth, p.324).
 
 
President Wilford Woodruff stated: "the Gospel of modern Christendom shuts up the Lord, and stops all communication with Him. I want nothing to do with such a Gospel, I would rather prefer the Gospel of the dark ages, so called" (Journal of Discourses , vol. 2, p.196).


Where's the GREAT REWARD; Norm???

42 posted on 03/24/2013 3:37:13 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Greetings_Puny_Humans
Jesus taught no such thing. He taught that salvation is through Him only, and all those who do not believe are condemned already.

Yeah; that what YOUR church's have taught YOU!!!

But the really imPORTant stuff got tossed out of the bible by evil men; only to be RESTORED thru the beloved Joseph Smith!

--MormonDude(HE will do the IMPORTANT judging!!!)

43 posted on 03/24/2013 3:39:45 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Greetings_Puny_Humans
HE will do the IMPORTANT judging!!!


What Joseph Smith Means to Us 

 
 
 

"He (Joseph Smith) is the man through whom God has spoken... yet I would not like to call him a savior, though in a certain capacity he was a god to us, and is to the nations of the earth, and will continue to be."
- Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses 8:321
 
 
 
 
"You call us fools; but the day will be, gentlemen and ladies, whether you belong to this Church or not, when you will prize brother Joseph Smith as the Prophet of the Living God, and look upon him as a god..."
- Herber C. Kimball, Journal of Discourses 5:88
 
 
 
 
"If we get our salvation, we shall have to pass by him [Joseph Smith]; if we enter our glory, it will be through the authority he has received. We cannot get around him [Joseph Smith]"
- (as quoted in 1988 Melchizedek Priesthood Study Guide, p. 142)
There is "no salvation without accepting Joseph Smith. If Joseph Smith was verily a prophet, and if he told the truth...no man can reject that testimony without incurring the most dreadful consequences, for he cannot enter the kingdom of God"
- Joseph Fielding Smith, Doctrines of Salvation, vol. 1, p.190
 
 
 
 
"I tell you, Joseph holds the keys, and none of us can get into the celestial kingdom without passing by him. We have not got rid of him, but he stands there as the sentinel, holding the keys of the kingdom of God; and there are many of them beside him. I tell you, if we get past those who have mingled with us, and know us best, and have a right to know us best, probably we can pass all other sentinels as far as it is necessary, or as far as we may desire. But I tell you, the pinch will be with those that have mingled with us, stood next to us, weighed our spirits, tried us, and proven us: there will be a pinch, in my view, to get past them. The others, perhaps, will say, If brother Joseph is satisfied with you, you may pass. If it is all right with him, it is all right with me. Then if Joseph shall say to a man, or if brother Brigham say to a man, I forgive you your sins, "Whosoever sins ye remit they are remitted unto them;" if you who have suffered and felt the weight of transgression—if you have generosity enough to forgive the sinner, I will forgive him: you cannot have more generosity than I have. I have given you power to forgive sins, and when the Lord gives a gift, he does not take it back again."
- Orson Hyde, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 6, p.154-155
 
 
 
 
"It is because the Lord called Joseph Smith that salvation is again available to mortal men.... If it had not been for Joseph Smith and the restoration, there would be no salvation,"
- Bruce McConkie, Mormon Doctrine, p. 396, 670


They succeeded in killing Joseph, but he had finished his work.
He was a servant of God, and gave us the Book of Mormon.
He said the Bible was right in the main, but, through the translators and others, many precious portions were suppressed, and several other portions were wrongly translated; and now his testimony is in force, for he has sealed it with his blood.
As I have frequently told them, no man in this dispensation will enter the courts of heaven, without the approbation of the Prophet Joseph Smith, Jun.
Who has made this so?
Have I?
Have this people?
Have the world?
No; but the Lord Jehovah has decreed it.
If I ever pass into the heavenly courts, it will be by the consent of the Prophet Joseph.
If you ever pass through the gates into the Holy City, you will do so upon his certificate that you are worthy to pass.
Can you pass without his inspection?
No; neither can any person in this dispensation, which is the dispensation of the fulness of times.
In this generation, and in all the generations that are to come, everyone will have to undergo the scrutiny of this Prophet.
They say that they killed Joseph, and they will yet come with their hats under their arms and bend to him; but what good will it do them, unless they repent?
They can come in a certain way and find favor, but will they?
Brigham Young,

--JOURNAL OF DISCOURSES, vol. 8, p. 224


44 posted on 03/24/2013 3:41:06 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: teppe
LDS belief in Christ is similar to that that existed before the Nicene Creed and is similar to that espoused by Tertullian in “Against Praxeas”

Yup; it sure IS a heresy from long ago!

Genesis 3:5

For God knows that when you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.”


The Doctrine and Covenants

Section 132

Revelation given through Joseph Smith the Prophet, at Nauvoo, Illinois, recorded 12 July 1843, relating to the new and everlasting covenant, including the eternity of the marriage covenant, and also the plurality of wives (see History of the Church, 5:501–7). Although the revelation was recorded in 1843, it is evident from the historical records that the doctrines and principles involved in this revelation had been known by the Prophet since 1831.

1–6, Exaltation is gained through the new and everlasting covenant; 7–14, The terms and conditions of that covenant are set forth; 15–20, Celestial marriage and a continuation of the family unit enable men to become gods; 21–25, The strait and narrow way leads to eternal lives; 26–27, The law is given relative to blasphemy against the Holy Ghost; 28–39, Promises of eternal increase and exaltation are made to prophets and Saints in all ages; 40–47, Joseph Smith is given the power to bind and seal on earth and in heaven; 48–50, The Lord seals upon him his exaltation; 51–57, Emma Smith is counseled to be faithful and true; 58–66, Laws governing the plurality of wives are set forth.

 


 

 16Therefore, when they are out of the world they neither marry nor are given in amarriage; but are appointed angels in bheaven, which angels are ministering cservants, to minister for those who are worthy of a far more, and an exceeding, and an eternal weight of glory.

 17For these angels did not abide my law; therefore, they cannot be enlarged, but remain separately and singly, without exaltation, in their saved condition, to all eternity; and from henceforth are not gods, but are aangels of God forever and ever.

 18And again, verily I say unto you, if a man marry a wife, and make a covenant with her for time and for all eternity, if that acovenant is not by me or by my word, which is my law, and is not sealed by the Holy Spirit of promise, through him whom I have anointed and appointed unto this power, then it is not valid neither of force when they are out of the world, because they are not joined by me, saith the Lord, neither by my word; when they are out of the world it cannot be received there, because the angels and the gods are appointed there, by whom they cannot pass; they cannot, therefore, inherit my glory; for my house is a house of order, saith the Lord God.

 19And again, verily I say unto you, if a man amarry a wife by my word, which is my law, and by the new and beverlasting covenant, and it is csealed unto them by the Holy Spirit of dpromise, by him who is anointed, unto whom I have appointed this power and the ekeys of this priesthood; and it shall be said unto them—Ye shall come forth in the first resurrection; and if it be after the first resurrection, in the next resurrection; and shall inherit fthrones, kingdoms, principalities, and powers, dominions, all heights and depths—then shall it be written in the Lamb’s gBook of Life, that he shall commit no hmurder whereby to shed innocent iblood, and if ye abide in my covenant, and commit no murder whereby to shed innocent blood, it shall be done unto them in all things whatsoever my servant hath put upon them, in time, and through all eternity; and shall be of full force when they are out of the world; and they shall pass by the angels, and the gods, which are set there, to their jexaltation and glory in all things, as hath been sealed upon their heads, which glory shall be a fulness and a continuation of the kseeds forever and ever.

 20 Then shall they be gods, because they have no end; therefore shall they be from aeverlasting to everlasting, because they continue; then shall they be above all, because all things are subject unto them. Then shall they be bgods, because they have call power, and the angels are subject unto them.

 21Verily, verily, I say unto you, except ye abide my alaw ye cannot attain to this glory.

 22For astrait is the gate, and narrow the bway that leadeth unto the exaltation and continuation of the clives, and few there be that find it, because ye receive me not in the world neither do ye know me.

 23But if ye receive me in the world, then shall ye know me, and shall receive your exaltation; that awhere I am ye shall be also.

 24This is aeternal lives—to bknow the only wise and true God, and Jesus Christ, whom he hath csent. I am he. Receive ye, therefore, my law.

 25aBroad is the gate, and wide the way that leadeth to the bdeaths; and many there are that go in thereat, because they creceive me not, neither do they abide in my law.


45 posted on 03/24/2013 3:44:36 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: jjotto
Many people are only interested in their own opinions.

But FACTS are pesky things; bullying and pushing their way, no matter WHAT 'opinions' are formed to explain them.

46 posted on 03/24/2013 3:46:36 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: jjotto

Nice stuff that was delievered to the JEWS: the Chosen People.

What should folks who were NOT included in the contract be held to?


47 posted on 03/24/2013 3:47:53 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Colofornian
Teppe consistently shows...

...and then he vanishes from the thread; only popping up in another one a few days later; trying to influence SOMEone that has not heard the TRUTH and understood it.

48 posted on 03/24/2013 3:49:38 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: teppe
LDS working with the writings of the early Church Fathers is a bit like letting a pre-school class loose in a Law library or particle physics lab. A lot of activity but no real understanding...
49 posted on 03/24/2013 5:40:07 AM PDT by ejonesie22 (8/30/10, the day Truth won.)
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To: Elsie

That’s the meaning of the ‘choseness’ of the Children Of Israel. God gave His laws to Adam and Noah (to all mankind) and they came to rest on Noah’s son Shem, who is known as “Melchizidek”. He transferred the primary teaching responsibility to Abraham. Moses the received special Revelation from God Himself and a very specific source of authority was established - for all mankind.


50 posted on 03/24/2013 6:22:32 AM PDT by jjotto ("Ya could look it up!")
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