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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wVMSw0Ospe0 ^ | 3-24-2013 | bluecollarman

Posted on 03/24/2013 6:09:33 AM PDT by bluecollarman

Using secular songs to deliver Christian messages. How do you feel about using country songs and changing the lyrics to deliver a gospel message? I don't have a good grasp of it. I felt lead to write these lyrics and sing this song. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wVMSw0Ospe0


TOPICS: Ministry/Outreach; Moral Issues; Prayer; Worship
KEYWORDS: forgiveness; randytravis; repentance
Much of it is just my testimony inspired by Randy Travis and his latest problems. I can relate to him and people like him. I pray for him. What you think about mixing worldly tunes with a gospel message. I have often been told that many Hymns such as Amazing Grace were written to the tune of old bar songs.
1 posted on 03/24/2013 6:09:33 AM PDT by bluecollarman
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To: bluecollarman

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wVMSw0Ospe0


2 posted on 03/24/2013 6:09:57 AM PDT by bluecollarman (Wanted....witty tagline.)
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To: bluecollarman

This is excellent, really enjoyed hearing your voice and hearing your voice sing these words.

You’re quite talented, you sure you can’t write your own tunes?

This is very good. Keep singing.


3 posted on 03/24/2013 6:18:33 AM PDT by bd476
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To: bluecollarman

If it worked for Martin Luther, it works for me.

A number of our classic old hymns that we hold so holy were actually bar songs of the day, and I seem to remember reading that Luther said, “Why should the bars have all the good music?” Took the music and put scripture truths in them, and we have and love them today.

Or was that Charles Wesley? I’m getting old.....someone will correct me I’m sure.....

Christian musician since 1968......


4 posted on 03/24/2013 6:21:32 AM PDT by Arlis (.)
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To: bluecollarman

OH, Heaven help us!

What’s next? Christian rap??

Oh, wait ...


5 posted on 03/24/2013 6:25:44 AM PDT by Westbrook (Children do not divide your love, they multiply it.)
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To: bluecollarman

VERY GOOD!!!


6 posted on 03/24/2013 6:27:39 AM PDT by Westbrook (Children do not divide your love, they multiply it.)
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To: bluecollarman

Added note: Music was created to glorify God - to magnify, exalt, and worship Him.

It also was to express the deepest longings of man’s heart, poetically.

Thus the Psalms of David, which were originally to music, and sometimes on a particular specified instrument. David created many new instruments - all to worship the Lord...the highest purpose for any musical instrument.

The day will come when all music comes back to its original purpose.......

On one of my guitar cases, when I was young I had an artist completely cover it with scripture about music and instruments of worship. One psalm David says he will worship the Lord with a 10-string instrument - a forerunner for my Martin D12-28 (’74) 12-string guitar........


7 posted on 03/24/2013 6:28:06 AM PDT by Arlis (.)
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To: Westbrook

No question there is music that has its origin below - and is not from above. Some is even demonic.

This music cannot be redeemed.

Christians will differ on which music falls into this category.......


8 posted on 03/24/2013 6:29:54 AM PDT by Arlis (.)
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To: bd476; Arlis; Westbrook

Thanks everyone for your input. Yes I write my own stuff. This song though really moved me to write it as “backsliding” is a concept I struggle to grasp. The original tune “I Told You So” was just the opposite of God’s Love so these lyrics came to mind. Thank you all for responding, I have to go to church now..:). and yes, I too think some music cannot be easily redeemed if at all.


9 posted on 03/24/2013 7:19:22 AM PDT by bluecollarman (Wanted....witty tagline.)
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To: bluecollarman

You have a very nice voice! :-)


10 posted on 03/24/2013 7:45:04 AM PDT by RushIsMyTeddyBear (Great vid by ShorelineMike! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KOZjJk6nbD4&feature=plcp)
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To: bluecollarman

We need more of these songs.


11 posted on 03/24/2013 8:01:26 AM PDT by Rappini (Veritas vos Liberabit)
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To: Arlis

It was Luther, you were right. That was my first thought too.


12 posted on 03/24/2013 8:12:52 AM PDT by Moonmad27 ("I'm not bad, I'm just drawn that way." Jessica Rabbit)
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To: bluecollarman

Thank you. Remember, we all struggle, as long as we allow our eyes to be diverted from Him. This is not the real life, just a test.

You did real well on this portion! Keep following as He leads.


13 posted on 03/24/2013 8:14:09 AM PDT by wizr (We are "one Nation, under God " or "one nation, trod under ". Keep the Faith.)
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To: bluecollarman

I thought it was very good.I enjoyed it a lot.

I tried to send this in a private message but for some reason the site wouldn’t let me.

My brother is a songwriter and cowrote a song on Randys 25th anniversary album called “Road To Surrender”I’ve been hoping Randy would think about the words that he sang and get his life straightened out.
The first verse goes:

Dear Lord, I’ve heard you know when somebody hits the bottom of their soul.
Oh Lord I hope you see, something that’s worth saving when you look at me.
I have no fight left in me now. I take my pride and lay it down.
And on my knees here at your feet, I’ll give you all that’s left of me.
Oh Lord this weary broken sinner is on the road to surrender

Some other people have recorded it too. One of my favorite songs he’s ever done.


14 posted on 03/24/2013 8:41:43 AM PDT by noncommiemommy
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To: bluecollarman
You do have a very nice voice - don't hear anything on the radio any better that I can tell. Primo instrumentation too - and I'm not a big CW fan.

Prior to the middle to late 19th Century many hymns existed only as lyrics that could be sung to any number of tunes that were metrically compatible. It was pretty much a switch and swap at will affair until congregations settled in on their favorite combinations and they started getting published that way. Even then lyric lines printed under the score were considered to be suggestions and they weren't welded together for quite some time.

Many of the tunes were simply titled after the city in which they were written or some other short identifier like "Grace" or "Zion".

The Preacher would call out the number of the poem in the book (most people knew them by heart back in the day) and the tune it was to be sung to... "#427 to the air of Claremont" for instance.

Even in some later Hymn books you will see a notation on the top of the page that reads something like "6s & 7s" or 'CM" (Common Meter) - that's what that is all about.

For some examples check these scannings of a small part of this collection of 19th Century Gospel music:

http://smg.photobucket.com/user/UncleJaque/library/MUSIC/GOSPEL?page=1&postlogin=true

I commonly revert to this antique custom when interpreting songs of the Civil War era.
"Mother's Lament" - a real old tear jerker, for example - sounds better to me when sung to the tune of "Sweet Afton" than the written score I find with it. It would not have been unheard of to do it that way back then, as it was common practice.

Death and mourning were common themes back then; here's a typical old tear jerker:

http://smg.photobucket.com/user/UncleJaque/media/MUSIC/19th%20Century%20Popular/Untitled3.gif.html

Feel free to play with it; it's public domain. Play it as is to a bunch of Mothers and keep the kleenex handy.

Just FYI they used a melodic finger picking style back then, on small gut strung parlor guitars.

Steve Vaus is probably one of my favorite CW Artists and does this kind of thing sometimes. Unfortunately he seems to have been blackballed by the music industry for his politically incorrect ideology and we don't hear much from him. I love his version of the National Anthem.

Would love to have you paw through this collection (which I have access to) and see what you can come up with - a lot of it has been forgotten for over a century and there is some beautiful material collecting dust in there. If you wanted to, you could probably up date it a little like Elvis did with a popular Civil War love song, "Aura Lee". It became "Love Me Tender" and was a hit again a century later.

Just bear in mind; I'm not sure just what the cut off is, but really old songs are usually "Public domain", while if you "borrow" later music you are apt to get into copyright issues.

Don't be surprised if your YuTube gets pulled over allegations of copyright infringement. I wouldn't go putting it on a CD and try selling it without consulting a good Lawyer first.

I made a feeble attempt at an album some years ago, but I was very careful to only use public domain or my own compositions.

15 posted on 03/24/2013 10:10:51 AM PDT by George Varnum (Liberty, like our Forefather's Flintlock Musket, must be kept clean, oiled, and READY!)
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To: noncommiemommy

Thanks, yes Road to Surrender is a great song! Couldn’t sing it in church without crying the whole time though, very powerful. Especially if you have been this broken before. At this link https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PdPxxQSHFqA Randy Travis, Kris Kristopherson, and Willie Nelson sing it. Your brother, he done good.


16 posted on 03/24/2013 12:54:43 PM PDT by bluecollarman (Wanted....witty tagline.)
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To: wizr

So true. Just passing through! Thanks!


17 posted on 03/24/2013 12:56:42 PM PDT by bluecollarman (Wanted....witty tagline.)
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To: RushIsMyTeddyBear

Thank You. :-)


18 posted on 03/24/2013 12:57:42 PM PDT by bluecollarman (Wanted....witty tagline.)
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To: George Varnum

Yep I know, it’s okay though, I do not want to make any money on it. I am with BMI and if I wanted to record it I would have to pay royalty on the music.

“Many of the tunes were simply titled after the city in which they were written or some other short identifier like “Grace” or “Zion”.”

Lots of good information! Did you know I am a music director at a Church and did not know some of this? So thanks! Of course I got a pretty late start.

Still, it is good to learn stuff and to learn that you still can. I like the links, good stuff. I think before 1922 you are pretty safe with public domain but not always. Sound recordings are protected in America till well after 2050.

Maybe you should try a CD again! This time bolder! ;-)


19 posted on 03/24/2013 1:09:45 PM PDT by bluecollarman (Wanted....witty tagline.)
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To: Rappini

Thanks!


20 posted on 03/24/2013 1:11:23 PM PDT by bluecollarman (Wanted....witty tagline.)
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To: bluecollarman

Have you checked your hymn books for “meter” or a metrical index in the back? Some of them might still have them.

Do any churches use hymnals any more, or do they all sing off the wall (overhead projector) now?

If you were going to look for a tune for this old one (Meter = syllables per line):

When I come to the river 7
at the ending of day 6
When the last winds of sorrow have blown 9
There’ll be somebody waiting 7
to show me the way 5
I won’t have to cross Jordan alone 9

I won’t have to cross Jordan alone
On my way to my heavenly home
When the darkness I see, they’ll be waiting for me
And I won’t have to cross Jordan alone

Many times I am lonely and I’ve often been sad
With a heart that is heavy as stone
But there’s one thing that cheers me and makes my heart glad
I won’t have to cross Jordan alone.

That might be what they call “Irregular meter” and tough to match up with an existing tune other than the one written for it.

As I was learning about all this on the Mudcat forum
http://www.mudcat.org/
here is what one of the resident experts said:

” The “7s and 8s” (etc.) refer to the number of syllables in each line of the hymn.

CM, LM & SM are just shorthand ways of saying some of the more common ones.

“D” means double (i.e repeat everything).

So 8.7.8.7D would be an eight line verse with alternate lines of 8 and 7 syllables. “While Shepherds Watched” would be 8.6.8.6 (which is probably CM or SM).

Note that the tunes may contain more (or occasionally fewer) notes than there are syllables in the poem - “Alleluia” is only four syllables, but can be many more notes than that.”

And another added:

“This is your clue for what tunes to try with what words.

Many hymnals have a meter index, probably a vestige of when more text/tune switching was done.

CM=Common Meter=8,6,8,6 (Amazing Grace, While Shepherds, Gilligan’s Island, Dundee-a tune used multiple times in most hymnals)

LM=Long Meter=8,8,8,8 (Praise God From Whom all blessings flow,I know that my Redeemer lives, Old Hundred)

SM=Short Meter=6,6,8,8(I love thy kingdom, Lord; St. Thomas)

PM=Particular (or Peculiar) Meter. A rare meter or one open to different interpretations.

The expectation is a 4 line hymn, so “7’s & 8’s” is short for 7,8,7,8. “11’s’ is 4 lines of 11 each.
“ 7’s double” is 8 lines of 7. “

Sounds pretty complicated, but it comes in handy if you want to play around with switching lyrics and melodies around just for fun, or if you want to put a poem to music. That’s the way they used to do it.


21 posted on 03/24/2013 8:06:00 PM PDT by George Varnum (Liberty, like our Forefather's Flintlock Musket, must be kept clean, oiled, and READY!)
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To: George Varnum

“SM=Short Meter=6,6,8,8”

No, short meter is 6686.

I’m an organist in the Church of England in South Africa - not to be confused with the CoE in England and the American Episcopalian churches which seem by and large to be apostate. We separated from that in the 1800s.

We have a 8:00am traditional Prayer Book service followed by a later more contemporary service. There is someone, usually aside from the pastor, who leads the service and chooses the hymns having been acquainted with the subject of the service, readings, etc. One of the older leaders has made the comment that in our early services we probably have a wider repertoire than the later services because of the regular meters. One can choose many hymns with unfamiliar, but appropriate, words because we can usually find a tune that fits. In fact, I always advise new service leaders, many of whom are graduates of our theological college but who did not grow up with hymns, to choose their hymns based on the words, and to let me sort out the tunes. Even the young ones are expected to be able to lead a traditional service as well as the more contemporary version. They serve the entire congregation, not just those who attend a particular service.

All decent hymn books have lists of tunes by meter and by name.


22 posted on 03/25/2013 2:58:08 AM PDT by Diapason
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To: Diapason

Thanks for the correction. Since I essentially pasted in what the chap on Mudcat posted back in April of 02 and he obviously knew a lot more about it than I do, I suspect it was a typo.

Noted correction in my archives for future reference.

I’m glad that the old tradition lives on in So. Africa, as it probably still does in at least a few places here in the Colonies.

We have a few traditional “Shape Note” singing groups around, and I think most of them are familiar with meters.

Example: “Morning Star”

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v53/UncleJaque/MUSIC/Morning_Star.gif

...in which the melody line is written in shape notes while harmony / accompaniment in standard notation.
Are you familiar with it?

All shape notes from 1853 - one of my favorites: “Delight”
http://smg.photobucket.com/user/UncleJaque/media/MUSIC/GOSPEL/DelightSoHarmny1853SN_1.gif.html

Bet it would sound nice on your organ. Wonder what our Country Western Singer could do with it?
I always thought it needed soft percussion - like kettle drums behind it. Excellent hammer dulcimer piece.

Shape note singing was quite popular in America from about the 1830s through the early 20th Century, and used a lot in the Churches.

Are you familiar with “Scottish” / Solfa notation?
That’s pretty interesting (I never did figure it out):

http://smg.photobucket.com/user/UncleJaque/media/MUSIC/Banks_of_Allan_Water_solfa.bmp.html


23 posted on 03/25/2013 8:06:36 PM PDT by George Varnum (Liberty, like our Forefather's Flintlock Musket, must be kept clean, oiled, and READY!)
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