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Christians, Muslims, and the "One God"
Catholic Answers ^ | March 25, 2013 | Todd Aglialoro

Posted on 03/26/2013 6:56:09 AM PDT by NYer

Last week, Pope Francis received a collection of world religious leaders in his first ecumenical and interreligious event. His address to them contained diplomatic niceties and specific expressions of good will aimed at Orthodox, Protestants, Jews, and Muslims.

His remarks to the latter recognized that Muslims “worship the one living and merciful God, and call upon him in prayer.” In this he echoed the 1964 dogmatic constitution Lumen Gentium, which gave a nod to “the Mohammedans, who, professing to hold the faith of Abraham, along with us adore the one and merciful God, who on the last day will judge mankind.”

Now, both Lumen Gentium 16 and Pope Francis’s words have a pastoral rather than doctrinal purpose. Their aim is to build interreligious bridges by generously acknowledging whatever can be found to be true in other faiths—not to make precise pronouncements about their theology. That said, Lumen Gentium is an exercise of the ordinary Magisterium, and even casual statements from a pope (be it this one from Francis or similar ones made by his predecessors) shouldn’t be taken lightly.

So, what does it mean to say that Muslims adore the one God along with us—to say, as can be reasonably drawn from these statements, that Muslims worship the same God as Catholics? We can consider the idea in several senses.

I think we can say with confidence that any monotheist who calls out to the Lord is heard by the Lord, whether it’s a Muslim, a pagan philosopher seeking the God of reason, or a Native American petitioning the Great Spirit. As Lumen Gentium 16 continues, God is not “far distant from those who in shadows and images seek [him].”

Likewise I think we’re on solid ground in saying that the subjective intention of Muslims is to worship the one God—moreover, the one God from the line of Abrahamic revelation. Whether or not their version of that revelation is authentic or correct, that’s what they “profess to hold” to. Furthermore, some of the attributes of the God to whom they address their worship are comparable to the Christian God’s: He is one, merciful, omnipotent, and the judge of the world.

Just as clearly, though, we cannot say that the God in whom Muslims profess to believe is theologically identical to the Christian God. For the most obvious example, their God is a “lonely God,” as Chesterton put it, whereas ours is a Trinity of persons. Beyond that difference, in the divine economy our Gods are also quite different: most pointedly in that ours took human nature to himself and dwelt among us on earth, whereas the Muslim God remains pure transcendence. To Muslims the idea of an incarnation is blasphemy.

And so perhaps we can distinguish between worship of God and belief in him, the former being more about the intent of the worshiper and the latter being more about the object of belief himself. Thus could Gerhard Müller, bishop emeritus of Regensburg and since last year the prefect of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, assert in 2007 that Muslims and Christians “do not believe in the same God,” and yet not contradict any magisterial teaching.

Of course, Jews believe in an utterly transcendent and “lonely” God, too; the idea that Jesus was God’s son, Yahweh incarnate, was likewise blasphemous to the Jews of his day. Is their theology as deficient as Islam’s? Ought we to put them in the same category as Muslims: subjectively worshiping the one God but believing in him, as least partly, in error?

Well, at least one difference suggests itself. Muslims “profess” to hold to the faith of Abraham but really don’t; their version of Abrahamic faith is false. (Of course, they believe that our version is the false one, a corruption of the Qur’an.) Jews, on the other hand, know and believe in their God according to his authentic self-revelation—what they have received from him is true, just incomplete. To be fully true, Jewish theology just needs to be perfected by Christian revelation, whereas, although we can identify many truths in it, Islamic theology needs to be broken down, corrected, rebuilt from an authentic foundation.

Now, it can be a bad practice to judge ideas by their sources. But if, as Benedict XVI has said, faith is at root a personal encounter with God, then the authenticity of God’s personal revelation of himself is of the utmost importance. In other words, the source of God-knowledge becomes the very question. We worship and believe in God because and to the extent that we know him. And we know him, above all other reasons, according to how he revealed himself to us.

In this sense, then, I suggest that we can correctly say that Jews worship and believe in a God who is qualitatively truer, closer to the God of Christianity, than the God of Islam. Both Jews and Muslims lay claim to the same revelation, but where Jews have an accurate record of it (and thus of the God it reveals) Muslims have a fictionalized adaptation.

This question of the theological similarities and differences between Christianity and Islam is perhaps more important than it ever has been. With religious folk of all kinds increasingly beset by secularism and moral relativism, we look across creedal lines for friends and allies—comrades-in-arms in the fight for unborn life, traditional marriage and morality, religious rights, and a continued place for believers in the cultural conversation. It can be an encouragement and a temptation, then, to look at Islam and see not warriors of jihad against Arab Christians and a decadent West, but fellow-soldiers of an “ecumenical jihad” against an anti-theist culture.

Can Islam be that reliable ally? (Shameless product plug alert.) That’s the subject of the newest book from Catholic Answers Press: Not Peace but a Sword by Robert Spencer. The evidence he presents will help us understand Islam’s God more clearly, and make us examine more shrewdly the prospects for any future alliance with followers of the Prophet.


TOPICS: Catholic; Islam; Judaism; Orthodox Christian
KEYWORDS: catholic
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Todd Aglialoro is the acquisitions editor for Catholic Answers Press. He studied theology at Franciscan University, the University of Fribourg, and the International Theological Institute, and spent several years working in diocesan ministry before embarking on a career in Catholic publishing.


1 posted on 03/26/2013 6:56:09 AM PDT by NYer
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To: netmilsmom; thefrankbaum; Tax-chick; GregB; saradippity; Berlin_Freeper; Litany; SumProVita; ...
Just as clearly, though, we cannot say that the God in whom Muslims profess to believe is theologically identical to the Christian God. For the most obvious example, their God is a “lonely God,” as Chesterton put it, whereas ours is a Trinity of persons. Beyond that difference, in the divine economy our Gods are also quite different: most pointedly in that ours took human nature to himself and dwelt among us on earth, whereas the Muslim God remains pure transcendence. To Muslims the idea of an incarnation is blasphemy.
2 posted on 03/26/2013 6:56:53 AM PDT by NYer (Beware the man of a single book - St. Thomas Aquinas)
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To: NYer

That may be the most ignorant thing anyone believes.
The islamic god is NOT God.


3 posted on 03/26/2013 6:59:26 AM PDT by svcw (Why is one cell on another planet considered life, and in the womb it is not.)
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To: NYer

The difference between the Jewish and Christian God compared to that of Allah - is that the former rallies around death - where that of Christ is of life...when we believe LIFE is of the most importance, despite those that have used it for corruption, there is peace. Allah brings death and control - slavery and rape - and things that are dark to the forefront to despise and counter what Christ accomplished...it’s interesting that Islam came after Christ 700 yrs later and does not “improve” the situation, but only worsens it. That is evil at work - nothing more...


4 posted on 03/26/2013 7:03:33 AM PDT by BCW (http://babylonscovertwar.com/index.html)
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To: NYer
Can Islam be that reliable ally?

************************

No.

5 posted on 03/26/2013 7:04:28 AM PDT by trisham (Zen is not easy. It takes effort to attain nothingness. And then what do you have? Bupkis.)
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To: NYer

I have to question the “one God “ of the Muslims because of this worhsip of a moon as a god. It contradicts the idea of the Jewish/Christian idea of God.


6 posted on 03/26/2013 7:07:26 AM PDT by Biggirl ("Jesus talked to us as individuals"-Jim Vicevich/Thanks JimV!)
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To: NYer
“worship the one living and merciful God, and call upon him in prayer.”

Sorry, Pope... you're off base on this one.

I for one will NEVER call to that fake muslim moon-god "in prayer."

7 posted on 03/26/2013 7:08:53 AM PDT by ScottinVA (Gun control: Steady firm grip, target within sights, squeeze the trigger slowly...)
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To: NYer

” Because of this worhsip of a moon as a god.”

Correction: “moon rock”


8 posted on 03/26/2013 7:10:12 AM PDT by Biggirl ("Jesus talked to us as individuals"-Jim Vicevich/Thanks JimV!)
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To: svcw
"...The islamic god is NOT God."

In the Latter Days there will be many false teachings. How will we know them? Two ways:

1) Any teaching (religion) that denies Jesus Christ or His sovereignty as the one true Risen Son of God is a false teaching (religion).

2) By their works shall we know them.

Looks like old "Allah" falls down flat on both counts.

Hard.

;-\

9 posted on 03/26/2013 7:13:21 AM PDT by Gargantua ("Barbie O'Bunga ~ America's First Fly-Strewn, Maggot-Gagging Fag President")
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To: ScottinVA

Didn’t the Pope say that when anyone prays to God, the one only God, hears it? If so, how does it matter what form God takes in that person’s mind?


10 posted on 03/26/2013 7:13:52 AM PDT by stuartcr ("I have habits that are older than the people telling me they're bad for me.")
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To: NYer
Jesus said: “No one comes to the Father but by me”.

Muslims do NOT believe in the divinity of Jesus, therefore, they will burn in Hell.

Every other argument is irrelevant.

11 posted on 03/26/2013 7:15:33 AM PDT by Mister Da (The mark of a wise man is not what he knows, but what he knows he doesn't know!)
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To: svcw
That may be the most ignorant thing anyone believes. The islamic god is NOT God.

Indeed it seems you are correct. However, I will defer to some extent in the same way the author did to Chesterton. On this topic, I believe it would be appropriate to compare the practice of modern Islam to ancient Paganism; a desperate reaching by man to discover God that is, in some respects at least, successful. However, as in all such endeavors undertaken by men using vain or insane sources, they fall short of Truth.

And thus the conclusion may be drawn: Paganism ultimately violates the First Commandment in the worship of a man-made God, but is greater than humanism in its worship of man himself.

12 posted on 03/26/2013 7:16:38 AM PDT by Palmetto
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To: stuartcr

Right, but when a muslim prays to wage jihad, does he still pray to the same god? I think not. That was my point.


13 posted on 03/26/2013 7:17:31 AM PDT by ScottinVA (Gun control: Steady firm grip, target within sights, squeeze the trigger slowly...)
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To: ScottinVA

I don’t see why not. People have been praying to God to smite their enemies for a very long time. I imagine when they succeed, they certainly think so.


14 posted on 03/26/2013 7:20:17 AM PDT by stuartcr ("I have habits that are older than the people telling me they're bad for me.")
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To: ScottinVA
He believes that he is praying to the God of Abraham.

Just because he is praying for something that it is not permissible to pray for, does not mean that this is not Who he is praying to.

15 posted on 03/26/2013 7:29:08 AM PDT by wideawake
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To: NYer

There is only one God, no matter what his name is.
However, the middle eastern death cult believes their god commands them to do something that is incompatible with a loving, merciful God.

The Pope means well, but will soon be disappointed in his dialogue with the death cult.


16 posted on 03/26/2013 7:30:02 AM PDT by I want the USA back (Pi$$ed off yet?)
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To: trisham
Can Islam be that reliable ally?

************************

No.

Islam is very reliable.

You can 100% rely on them to betray, to lie (Taqiyya), to never surrender (only allowed a temporary truce, a Hudna), to fight (jihad), to...

17 posted on 03/26/2013 7:30:57 AM PDT by null and void (If the government is so worried about civil disturbance, why are they working so hard to disturb us?)
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To: stuartcr
how does it matter what form God takes in that person’s mind

It matters because God is an objective reality outside the mind, and true apprehension is superior to subjective interpretation.

Man is not the measure of all things.

18 posted on 03/26/2013 7:32:55 AM PDT by wideawake
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To: NYer

The basic declaration of faith is: “there is no god but God...and Muhammad is his prophet.” Is the god of Muhammad the God of Abraham? Is the god of Muhammad the “God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ”? I can’t go along with the Pope on this one.


19 posted on 03/26/2013 7:38:34 AM PDT by Nanny7
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To: wideawake

How do you know God is an objective reality outside the mind? Is that what you believe, or do you have proof?


20 posted on 03/26/2013 7:39:37 AM PDT by stuartcr ("I have habits that are older than the people telling me they're bad for me.")
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To: ScottinVA

Seconded.


21 posted on 03/26/2013 7:40:06 AM PDT by sauropod (I will not comply)
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To: NYer

I hope I read this wrong.

Back again after I get some strong coffee...


22 posted on 03/26/2013 7:41:30 AM PDT by MichaelCorleone (A return to Jesus and prayer in the schools is the only way.)
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To: NYer

The chasm that exists between Christianity and Islam can never be abridged.

In the past 100 years it has only widened and deepened. There are not even basic theological points between the two religions that can be agreed upon.


23 posted on 03/26/2013 7:41:42 AM PDT by 353FMG ( I do not indicate whether I am serious or sarcastic -- I respect FReepers too much.)
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To: null and void

Quite so.


24 posted on 03/26/2013 7:47:56 AM PDT by trisham (Zen is not easy. It takes effort to attain nothingness. And then what do you have? Bupkis.)
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To: NYer

The deity that I see by reading the Koran and the other related books is substantially different in temperament and goals than the deity I see by reading the Bible.

It seems that the more fervent a follower of Islam’s deity becomes, the more warlike he is, whereas the more fervent the follower of the Bible’s deity is, the more peaceful he is.

Moreover, Islam does not hesitate to impose itself by force, and once an adherent, always an adherent. But the system of beliefs in the Bible can only be adopted by informed consent, and thus imposition by force or coercion is contrary to that system.

Based on these factors, the deity of Islam is not the same deity as that found in the Bible.


25 posted on 03/26/2013 7:51:53 AM PDT by theBuckwheat
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To: svcw
"That may be the most ignorant thing anyone believes. The islamic god is NOT God."

I want to scream when I hear the untruth that Muslims worship the same God as Christians.

The god of the Koran dictates conversion by force and bloodshed, and is a pimp who rewards his followers with virgins. The Koran god claims Jesus is subordinate to Mohammed, and denies the virgin birth and the Crucifixion. So tell me----how can anyone say THAT is the God of the Bible??

26 posted on 03/26/2013 7:53:43 AM PDT by CatherineofAragon (Support Christian white males---the architects of the jewel known as Western Civilization)
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To: NYer

You could argue that satanists are monotheistic, since they worship one god.

I think it’s safe to say that the god of Islam and the one true God (in three persons) are not the same.

By their fruits ye shall know them.


27 posted on 03/26/2013 7:59:14 AM PDT by Disambiguator
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To: NYer
John 14

6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

There you are, from "The Word of God" Himself, as The Word became flesh

28 posted on 03/26/2013 8:04:39 AM PDT by Clay+Iron_Times (The feet of the statue and the latter days of the church age)
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To: stuartcr
If so, how does it matter what form God takes in that person’s mind?

Because God has revealed Himiself to us, and that revelation does not resemble Allah.

29 posted on 03/26/2013 8:15:29 AM PDT by chesley (Vast deserts of political ignorance makes liberalism possible - James Lewis)
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To: chesley

Perhaps God has not revealed Himself the same to everyone? Can you really speak for others?


30 posted on 03/26/2013 8:17:29 AM PDT by stuartcr ("I have habits that are older than the people telling me they're bad for me.")
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To: stuartcr

“Perhaps God has not revealed Himself the same to everyone? Can you really speak for others?”

God revealed Himself through revelations to men, as then recorded in the Bible. It is intended for all mankind to read. Those who ignore it or interpret it differently than written do so at their own peril. I can only speak for myself and that is how I see it.


31 posted on 03/26/2013 8:39:25 AM PDT by TexasRepublic (Socialism is the gospel of envy and the religion of thieves)
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To: stuartcr

God revealed himself in the Bible (the Word of God, or God’s Law Word).

In order to have any clue about the God of the Bible one must study the Bible.


32 posted on 03/26/2013 8:40:22 AM PDT by PieterCasparzen (We have to fix things ourselves)
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To: TexasRepublic

I understand this is what you believe, others believe differently...how would one go about proving or disproving any beliefs?


33 posted on 03/26/2013 8:42:12 AM PDT by stuartcr ("I have habits that are older than the people telling me they're bad for me.")
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To: PieterCasparzen

Yes, but there are many that do not believe the Bible the same as you, yet still believe in God.


34 posted on 03/26/2013 8:43:33 AM PDT by stuartcr ("I have habits that are older than the people telling me they're bad for me.")
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To: stuartcr
How do you know God is an objective reality outside the mind?

My knowledge is best described by Summa Theologiae Ia, q. 2, a. 3, St. Thomas' classical proofs.

35 posted on 03/26/2013 8:44:36 AM PDT by wideawake
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To: NYer; metmom; RnMomof7; Alex Murphy

Nothing to see here. The Pope is just parroting the RC Catechism.

Time to break out a copy of the Koran so this one can plant a big sloppy one on it too.


36 posted on 03/26/2013 8:48:01 AM PDT by Gamecock ( If we distort the gospel, that distortion will influence and affect everything else that we believe)
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To: NYer

Anyone or any organization who equates Is-Slime to a religion is doing nothing but helping that filth destroy civilization.

At its very best it is a hate cult, created by a pedophile mad man and followed by the world’s sub 45 IQ point population.

In the USA it is essential that Is-Slime be shunned as a religion of any type.

1st Amendment protections become suicide for us if such a vile hate cult is granted religion status.


37 posted on 03/26/2013 8:48:37 AM PDT by Wurlitzer (Nothing says "ignorance" like Islam!)
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To: wideawake

How do you know Aquinas was right in his assumptions?


38 posted on 03/26/2013 8:51:18 AM PDT by stuartcr ("I have habits that are older than the people telling me they're bad for me.")
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To: stuartcr
How do you know Aquinas was right in his assumptions?

The same way that anyone comes to agree with someone else's argument.

You begin with the principle of non-contradiction, you assess the premises and then follow the reasoning built upon the premises.

39 posted on 03/26/2013 9:04:35 AM PDT by wideawake
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To: wideawake

So why do you believe there cannot be an infinite series of movers and causes?


40 posted on 03/26/2013 9:08:41 AM PDT by stuartcr ("I have habits that are older than the people telling me they're bad for me.")
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To: stuartcr

“I understand this is what you believe, others believe differently...how would one go about proving or disproving any beliefs?”

Nothing in this present world shall “prove” anything to those that have eyes but will not see. The Bible contains non-human wisdom as proof of its divine origins. The final proof will be revealed beyond the grave when it is too late for second chances.


41 posted on 03/26/2013 9:10:24 AM PDT by TexasRepublic (Socialism is the gospel of envy and the religion of thieves)
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To: stuartcr

You imply that God is NOT objective reality? Are you absolutely sure of that?


42 posted on 03/26/2013 9:10:59 AM PDT by Nanny7
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To: stuartcr

The intended meanings of the author, God, is what matters.

If a human misunderstands and leads himself into a lie, God will be his judge.

The completed Bible has been studied for nearly 2,000 years by ordained scholars.

Most of the current crop of false interpretations have their roots in, for lack of a better word, wackos from the past 200 years. Their views were rejected roundly in their day, but over the years they built up followings. Nowadays, the mainstream denominations have fallen into apostasy; the influence of false doctrine was accepted by them.

Everyone today wants their own “interpretation” to everything - logic has flown out the window for many people. Every math student thinks he will solve a 2,000 year old math problem, even though it’s been worked on by scholars for 2,000 years. Everyone thinks they will come up with something new.

I am a programmer, I’ve seen this for 20 years - many people have not got a clue, but want what they “feel” to be actually true even though it’s not. It’s tiresome, like dealing with a wilful child.

All can talk, but who can listen and learn without answering back ?

Tiresome.

But the Bible describes ALL of this.

Ecclesiastes 1

“1 The words of the Preacher, the son of David, king in Jerusalem.
2 Vanity of vanities, saith the Preacher, vanity of vanities; all is vanity.
3 What profit hath a man of all his labour which he taketh under the sun?
4 One generation passeth away, and another generation cometh: but the earth abideth for ever.
5 The sun also ariseth, and the sun goeth down, and hasteth to his place where he arose.
6 The wind goeth toward the south, and turneth about unto the north; it whirleth about continually, and the wind returneth again according to his circuits.
7 All the rivers run into the sea; yet the sea is not full; unto the place from whence the rivers come, thither they return again.
8 All things are full of labour; man cannot utter it: the eye is not satisfied with seeing, nor the ear filled with hearing.
9 The thing that hath been, it is that which shall be; and that which is done is that which shall be done: and there is no new thing under the sun.
10 Is there any thing whereof it may be said, See, this is new? it hath been already of old time, which was before us.
11 There is no remembrance of former things; neither shall there be any remembrance of things that are to come with those that shall come after.”

For those who want to seriously study (not make up their own wrong ideas), the Bible is available all over; so no one has an excuse.

http://www.reformed.org/documents/wcf_with_proofs/

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=gen%201&version=KJV

Grace and Peace be unto you.


43 posted on 03/26/2013 9:19:20 AM PDT by PieterCasparzen (We have to fix things ourselves)
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To: TexasRepublic

ok, thanks...but how do you, a human, know what non-human wisdom is, or that there are no second chances?


44 posted on 03/26/2013 9:20:10 AM PDT by stuartcr ("I have habits that are older than the people telling me they're bad for me.")
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To: Nanny7

Of course not.


45 posted on 03/26/2013 9:20:44 AM PDT by stuartcr ("I have habits that are older than the people telling me they're bad for me.")
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To: Gamecock; RnMomof7; metmom
Nothing to see here. The Pope is just parroting the RC Catechism. Time to break out a copy of the Koran so this one can plant a big sloppy one on it too.

Has there ever been a public anathema against the beliefs and practicioners of Islam from the Catholic Church? We Reformers got one, so why not the Muslims? I guess Muslims and Catholics have so many beliefs in common, that theirs don't rise to the level of categorical, public, "no tolerance" condemnations of Islam, such as Protestants received at the Councils of Trent.

46 posted on 03/26/2013 9:25:10 AM PDT by Alex Murphy ("If you are not firm in faith, you will not be firm at all" - Isaiah 7:9)
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To: PieterCasparzen

Don’t some people get different meanings from the Bible than others?


47 posted on 03/26/2013 9:25:11 AM PDT by stuartcr ("I have habits that are older than the people telling me they're bad for me.")
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To: stuartcr

Yes, some are correct, others are incorrect.


48 posted on 03/26/2013 9:37:51 AM PDT by PieterCasparzen (We have to fix things ourselves)
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To: Alex Murphy

I think that a Catholic would respond that the Protestants were in possession of truth but rejected it. They would argue that Muslims have “invincible ignorance” of the Gospel.

As a Christian who is not of the Roman Catholic faith, I don’t hold to that first interpretation, by the way. Of course, I think that the Catholic Church now recognizes Protestants as separated brethren, not as condemned heretics.


49 posted on 03/26/2013 9:39:39 AM PDT by Arkansas Toothpick
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To: PieterCasparzen

I’m guessing you’re among those that are correct.


50 posted on 03/26/2013 9:46:58 AM PDT by stuartcr ("I have habits that are older than the people telling me they're bad for me.")
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