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What Science Really Says about Religion
American Thinker ^ | 03/26/2013 | Thomas P. Sheahen

Posted on 03/26/2013 8:53:29 AM PDT by SeekAndFind

In the March 25 issue of The Weekly Standard, the lead article entitled "The Heretic" deals with philosopher Thomas Nagel, who has abandoned his long-held perspective on philosophy and religion. This has caused consternation and alarm among contemporary philosophy professors, the great majority of whom are strongly committed to an atheistic world-view. A recurring assertion by members of that profession is that they are being very scientific, because science disproves religion.

The question arises, "Where did the idea come from that science disproves religion?" It didn't come from within science; rather, it's the province of non-scientists making statements about science. To understand its origins, the foremost thing to note is that academic philosophers are by and large a group with limited understanding of science -- having passed their science requirement in college, most haven't gone deeper to investigate real science and discover the limits of science. Their familiar claim that science supports atheism result from their misunderstanding of science. Here is my scientific perspective about what happened over the past century:

As the 19th century was coming to a close, classical physics was in very good shape (Newtonian mechanics plus Maxwell's equations for electromagnetism). There was a strong belief in determinism, the notion that absolutely everything behaved over time according to the exact laws of physics. Quantum Mechanics and the uncertainty principle were still decades in the future.

Accompanying that belief in determinism in nature, the philosophers wanted their system of thought to be deterministic too, with every valid philosophical statement following logically from a previous one, all the way back to some "mathematical proof" at the basic level. Bertrand Russell advocated that way of thinking.

In the first quarter of the 20th century, the system of "logical positivism" gained dominance among philosophical schools.

(Excerpt) Read more at americanthinker.com ...


TOPICS: Religion & Science
KEYWORDS: faithandphilosophy; godsgravesglyphs; mindandcosmos; pages; religion; science; scientism; thomasnagel

1 posted on 03/26/2013 8:53:29 AM PDT by SeekAndFind
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To: SeekAndFind

Interesting. I see the adherence to the global warming dogma as a religious belief and not at all a scientific understanding.


2 posted on 03/26/2013 8:55:47 AM PDT by MeganC (The left have so twisted public perceptions that the truth now appears pornographic.- SpaceBar)
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To: SeekAndFind

Science doesn’t have much to say about religion. It can describe the mechanism behind how stars are created, but not the identity of the creator of that mechanism.


3 posted on 03/26/2013 9:00:57 AM PDT by allmendream (Tea Party did not send GOP to D.C. to negotiate the terms of our surrender to socialism)
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To: SeekAndFind

They just noticed? Nagel has taken this position for a long time. Very much worth reading.

http://www.amazon.com/Thomas-Nagel/e/B000AQ6R56/ref=sr_tc_2_0?qid=1364313591&sr=1-2-ent

If you only have time for one, I’d suggest “The Last Word.”


4 posted on 03/26/2013 9:01:45 AM PDT by Cicero (Marcus Tullius)
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To: allmendream
"Science doesn’t have much to say about religion. It can describe the mechanism behind how stars are created, but not the identity of the creator of that mechanism."

This is to be expected given that science is limited to the empirical while reality isn't.

5 posted on 03/26/2013 9:11:49 AM PDT by circlecity
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To: allmendream
Science doesn’t have much to say about religion. It can describe the mechanism behind how stars are created, but not the identity of the creator of that mechanism.

Exactly.

The center piece of Christianity is the life, death and resurrection Jesus. Science has no more to say on the on the events of the life of Jesus than any other historical figure. IOW, science can't confirm George Washington lived. Nor Plato or any other figure.

6 posted on 03/26/2013 9:17:47 AM PDT by Gamecock ( If we distort the gospel, that distortion will influence and affect everything else that we believe)
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To: SeekAndFind

The true treat thinkers (e.g., physicists, not mere philosophers) were not exactly against religion.

One very good book on this is “Quantum Questions” edited by Ken Wilber. Check out some of the philosophical writing of some of the greats of quantum physics who appear to have much more ability to think in terms of philosophy (and even religion) than philosophers appear to have in terms of modern physics.


7 posted on 03/26/2013 9:20:30 AM PDT by Da Coyote
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To: Da Coyote

Oops, that’s “true great thinkers,” not “true treat thinkers.”

Sorry, my fingers had an Obamadork moment.


8 posted on 03/26/2013 9:21:34 AM PDT by Da Coyote
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To: MeganC

The thing that really disturbs me about the global warming true believers is that, beyond the science, they believe that humanity is harmful and has no right to be here.


9 posted on 03/26/2013 9:30:09 AM PDT by Sender (It's never too late to be who you could have been.)
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I also can recommend a book entitled, “Does God Believe in Atheists?”. It does a great job of setting the stage going back to ancient times and how philosophical paradigms strongly influence what we would ordinarily consider “objective” research and analysis.


10 posted on 03/26/2013 9:30:36 AM PDT by Arkansas Toothpick
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To: Gamecock

I don’t know about that. There have been some interesting scientific studies of the Shroud of Turin that strongly indicate that a supernatural event caused the image of Christ on the Shroud. These studies are explained in detail in the History Channel’s documentary “The Real Face of Jesus.”


11 posted on 03/26/2013 9:32:39 AM PDT by HerrBlucher (Praise to the Lord the Almighty the King of Creation)
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To: allmendream
Science doesn’t have much to say about religion.

Perhaps quantum mechanics is a baby step in that direction, a first peek into a realm where we find supernatural ghosts in the atom, as were all previous discoveries, marching toward the ultimate understanding of existence and our place in it.

Is God and religion waiting at the end of the line? I can think of no good reason to insist that science remain godless forever. Maybe it's just the skeptics destined path.
12 posted on 03/26/2013 9:34:21 AM PDT by ZX12R
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To: Sender

I have been watching a british tv series on Netflix called “Primeval.” It is about time anomalies opening up and creatures from the past and future coming through them into modern times. Its a cool show and devoid of the usual PC and smut garbage pervading most tv shows.

In one of the episodes a woman who believes that humans are evil goes back in time to try and kill the first humans so as to prevent mankind from ever spreading across the globe.


13 posted on 03/26/2013 9:36:57 AM PDT by HerrBlucher (Praise to the Lord the Almighty the King of Creation)
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To: HerrBlucher
Christianity doesn't rest on the authenticity of the Shroud.
14 posted on 03/26/2013 9:43:32 AM PDT by Gamecock ( If we distort the gospel, that distortion will influence and affect everything else that we believe)
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To: HerrBlucher
In one of the episodes a woman who believes that humans are evil goes back in time to try and kill the first humans so as to prevent mankind from ever spreading across the globe.

Wow! I bet that episode would give the enviro-nuts a serious woody.
15 posted on 03/26/2013 9:44:58 AM PDT by ZX12R
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To: Gamecock

Of course not, but maybe some skeptics might see that evidence and cause them to re-think their skepticism. The bodily resurrection of Christ as a historical fact is also supported by the 500 witnesses who saw the resurrected Christ after his death, and of course, by the fact that the Apostles were willing to be martyred in the most painful and gruesome ways. They would not have done that for a hallucination.

Christianity is a religion based on historical facts that can be investigated. This is the foundation of all Christian apologetics.


16 posted on 03/26/2013 9:51:12 AM PDT by HerrBlucher (Praise to the Lord the Almighty the King of Creation)
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To: ZX12R

The great thing about the show is that she is the villain. Cool!


17 posted on 03/26/2013 9:52:54 AM PDT by HerrBlucher (Praise to the Lord the Almighty the King of Creation)
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To: ZX12R

If science could provide convincing evidence for God then faith wouldn’t be needed. Faith is the evidence of things unseen and without faith it is impossible to please God. God wants us to have faith and to seek him. He doesn’t say HERE I AM, NO NEED TO SEEK.


18 posted on 03/26/2013 10:05:55 AM PDT by allmendream (Tea Party did not send GOP to D.C. to negotiate the terms of our surrender to socialism)
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To: ZX12R

Science is a tool, a mechanism. Saying science is godless makes about as much sense as saying a hammer or computer program is godless.


19 posted on 03/26/2013 10:08:05 AM PDT by allmendream (Tea Party did not send GOP to D.C. to negotiate the terms of our surrender to socialism)
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To: allmendream
Science is a tool, a mechanism.

Hardly. Science is a creation of men, and men may be a creation of God. If something doesn't make sense to you, it could be due to a number of reasons, not just one.
20 posted on 03/26/2013 10:18:18 AM PDT by ZX12R
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To: allmendream
If science could provide convincing evidence for God then faith wouldn’t be needed. Faith is the evidence of things unseen and without faith it is impossible to please God. God wants us to have faith and to seek him. He doesn’t say HERE I AM, NO NEED TO SEEK.

You obviously know much more than me about everything...or you just think you do.
21 posted on 03/26/2013 10:27:32 AM PDT by ZX12R
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To: ZX12R

Read Hebrews ch 11.


22 posted on 03/26/2013 10:49:30 AM PDT by allmendream (Tea Party did not send GOP to D.C. to negotiate the terms of our surrender to socialism)
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I'm very astonished that the scientific picture of the real world is very deficient. It gives a lot of factual information, puts all our experience in a magnificently consistent order, but it is ghastly silent about all and sundry that is really near to our heart, that really matters to us. It cannot tell us a word about red and blue, bitter and sweet, physical pain and physical delight, knows nothing of beautiful and ugly, good or bad, God and eternity. Science sometimes pretends to answer questions in these domains, but the answers are very often so silly that we are not inclined to take them seriously.
Erwin Schrodinger

I shall reexamine the suppositions underlying our belief in science and propose to show that they are more extensive than is usually thought. They will appear to coextend with the entire spiritual foundations of man and to go to the very root of his social existence. Hence I will urge our belief in science should be regarded as a token of much wider convictions.
Michael Polanyi

Let no one think or maintain that a person can search too far or be too well studied in either the book of God's word or the book of God's works.
Francis Bacon

I believe only and alone in the service of Jesus Christ. In him is all refuge and solace.
Johannes Kepler

God makes people conscious of their inward wretchedness, which the Bible calls "sin" and his infinite mercy. Unites himself to their inmost soul, fills it with humility and joy, with confidence and love, renders them incapable of any other end than Himself. Jesus Christ is the end of all and the center to which all tends.
Blaise Pascal

At the center of every human being is a God–shaped vacuum which can only be filled by Jesus Christ.
Blaise Pascal

This most beautiful system of the sun, planets and comets could only proceed from the counsel and dominion of an intelligent and powerful Being….
There are more sure marks of authenticity in the Bible than in any profane history. It must be expressed in the very form of sound words in which it was delivered by the apostles. For men are apt to run into partings about deductions. All the old heresies lie in deductions….
The true faith was in the Biblical texts.
Isaac Newton

Boyle, Newton and the early members of the Royal Society were religious men who repudiated the skeptical doctrines of Thomas Hobbs. But they familiarized the minds of their countrymen with the idea of law in the universe and with scientific methods of inquiry to discover truth. It was believed that these methods would never lead to any conclusions inconsistent with Biblical history and miraculous religion. Newton lived and died in that faith.
George Trevellian

Speculations, man, I have none. I have certainties. I thank God that I don't rest my dying head upon speculations for "I know whom I have believed and am persuaded that he is able to keep that which I've committed unto him against that day."
Michael Faraday

Think what God has determined to do to all those who submit themselves to his righteousness and are willing to receive his gift [of eternal life in Jesus Christ]. They are to be conformed to the image of his Son and when that is fulfilled and God sees they are conformed to the image of Christ, there can be no more condemnation.
James Clerk Maxwell

Do not be afraid to be free thinkers. If you think strongly enough, you will be forced by science to the belief in God.
William Thomson (later known as Lord Kelvin)

You will understand that my atheism was inevitably based on what I believed to be the findings of the sciences and those findings, not being a scientist, I had to take on trust, in fact, on authority.
C. S. Lewis

In the distance tower still higher [scientific] peaks which will yield to those who ascend them still wider prospects and deepen the feeling whose truth is emphasized by every advance in science, that great are the works of the Lord.
J. J. Thomson

There were some ten of us and together we sought for God and together we found Him. I learned for the first time in my life that God was my friend. God became real to me, utterly real. I knew Him and could talk with Him as I never imagined it before and these prayers were the most glorious moment of the day. Life had a purpose and that purpose coloured everything.
Charles Coulson

If we need an atheist for a debate, I'd go to the philosophy department—the physics department isn't much use.
Otto Stern

Some non–scientist Christians, when they meet a Christian, will call on to debate evolution. That is definitely the wrong thing to do. If you know what problems scientists have in their lives—pride, selfish ambition, jealousy—that's exactly the kind of thing Jesus Christ said that He came to resolve by His death on the cross. Science is full of people with very strong egos who get into conflict with each other. The gospel is the same for scientists as it is for anyone. Evolution is basically a red herring; if scientists are looking for meaning in their lives, it won't be found in evolution. I have never met a non–Christian who brought up evolution with me.
John Suppe

You may well ask, "Where does God come into this," to me, that's almost a pointless question. If you believe in God at all, there is no particular "where"—He is always there, everywhere….To me, God is personal yet omnipresent. A great source of strength, He has made an enormous difference to me.
Charles H. Townes

We are fortunate to have the Bible, and especially the New Testament, which tells so much about God in widely accessible, human terms.
Arthur Schawlow

The world is too complicated in all its parts and interconnections to be due to chance…I am convinced that the existence of life with all its order and each of its organisms is simply too well put together.
Allan Sandage

God has given us an incredibly fascinating world to live in and explore.
William Phillips

The present arrangement of matter indicates a very special choice of initial conditions.
Paul Davies

A common sense interpretation of the facts suggests that a superintellect has monkeyed with physics, as well as with chemistry and biology, and that there are no blind forces worth speaking about in nature.
Fred Hoyle

Since the creation of the world, God's invisible qualities—His eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made.
Apostle Paul

The nature of God is not to be found within any part of the findings of science. For that, one must turn to the Scriptures.
Allan Sandage

There is a tremendous tradition of distinguished scientists who were and are Christians. I hope that my work is considered sufficiently outstanding to fall into the distinguished among that category. I also hope I have given you enough evidence that you will never again believe that it is impossible to be a scientist and a Christian.
Dr. Henry F. Schaefer, III


23 posted on 03/26/2013 11:03:13 AM PDT by Heartlander (Scientists animated by the purpose of proving that they are purposeless are interesting to study)
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To: allmendream
Read Hebrews ch 11.

Likewise, things that make sense to you, may not make sense to me. But at least I'm aware that that's just the way it is, and I don't pretend otherwise. Your comments have an air of infallibility in them, and I'm thinking perhaps God wouldn't like that too much. What do you think?
24 posted on 03/26/2013 11:05:32 AM PDT by ZX12R
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To: ZX12R

I think I need to do some godless mathematics on my godless calculator to perform some godless experiments, then type up the godless data on my godless computer. ;)


25 posted on 03/26/2013 11:15:26 AM PDT by allmendream (Tea Party did not send GOP to D.C. to negotiate the terms of our surrender to socialism)
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To: Gamecock
An fascinating book to read is "The Science of God: The Convergence of Scientific and Biblical Wisdom" by Gerald L. Schroeder:

Dr. Schroeder is a physicist and a devout Jew. Rather than use science to "prove" the bible, he instead draws parallels between a variety of biblical teachings and the findings of biochemists, paleontologists, astrophysicists, and quantum physicists.

26 posted on 03/26/2013 11:33:27 AM PDT by COBOL2Java (Fighting Obama without Boehner & McConnell is like going deer hunting without your accordion)
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To: allmendream
I think I need to do some godless mathematics on my godless calculator to perform some godless experiments, then type up the godless data on my godless computer. ;)

Maybe you'll be the first to find God. Good luck! Oh, and please let me know if you do.
27 posted on 03/26/2013 11:35:03 AM PDT by ZX12R
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To: ZX12R
I will be sure to, but until God decides to show himself empirically I will continue to have faith and to diligently seek him.

Heb 11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen

Heb 11:6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

28 posted on 03/26/2013 12:01:19 PM PDT by allmendream (Tea Party did not send GOP to D.C. to negotiate the terms of our surrender to socialism)
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To: allmendream
I will be sure to, but until God decides to show himself empirically I will continue to have faith and to diligently seek him.

Best of luck in your intellectual endeavors, and I mean that sincerely, FRiend.
29 posted on 03/26/2013 12:25:30 PM PDT by ZX12R
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To: ZX12R

Thanks!


30 posted on 03/26/2013 12:27:10 PM PDT by allmendream (Tea Party did not send GOP to D.C. to negotiate the terms of our surrender to socialism)
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 GGG managers are SunkenCiv, StayAt HomeMother & Ernest_at_the_Beach
Thanks SeekAndFind. Just adding to the catalog, not sending a general distribution.

To all -- please ping me to other topics which are appropriate for the GGG list.


31 posted on 03/26/2013 3:46:51 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (Romney would have been worse, if you're a dumb ass.)
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To: COBOL2Java

Gerald Schroeder bump.

Science and the Old Testament work very well together for me.


32 posted on 03/27/2013 7:58:12 AM PDT by onedoug
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To: ZX12R

a good way to conclude.


33 posted on 03/28/2013 7:18:50 AM PDT by kimtom (USA ; Freedom is not Free)
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To: allmendream

a dignified reply


34 posted on 03/28/2013 7:19:47 AM PDT by kimtom (USA ; Freedom is not Free)
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To: kimtom

Thanks!


35 posted on 03/28/2013 7:36:13 AM PDT by allmendream (Tea Party did not send GOP to D.C. to negotiate the terms of our surrender to socialism)
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