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ChurchMilitantTV Special Report : Dolan & the Dolanites
Philothea on Phire blog/ CMTV ^ | 3/26/2013 | Jay Boyd, Ph.D.

Posted on 03/27/2013 8:54:21 AM PDT by Brian Kopp DPM

Tuesday, March 26, 2013

CMTV: Dolan and the Dolanites

Thank God for the courageous and honest analysis of Michael Voris and ChurchMilitant.TV. In this Special Report, Michael Voris takes Cardinal Dolan to task for multiple offenses against the Church and Our Lord, including the Cardinal's latest escapade of allowing abortion-supporting Vice-President to receive Holy Communion at a Mass where the Cardinal was presiding.  

This report is not "bishop-bashing"; it is an act of charity. Our shepherds are held to higher accountability than we, the lay faithful.  It is time that some of them realize that their own actions are scandalous and perpetuate the crisis in the Church. Their own souls are at stake here. Pray for our bishops and priests.

Oh...in case you hadn't heard...Bishop Vasa has backed down on his requirement that teachers in Catholic schools in his diocese sign an affirmation of faith. Sigh.

Our Lady said to the children at Fatima: "Stop offending God, for He is already so much offended."

Prayer. Penance. 

The report includes this quote from St. John Eudes:

"The most evident mark of God's anger, and the most terrible castigation He can inflict upon the world, is manifest when He permits His people to fall into the hands of a clergy who are more in name than in deed, priests who practice the cruelty of ravening wolves rather than the charity and affection of devoted shepherds. They abandon the things of God to devote themselves to the things of the world and, in their saintly calling of holiness, they spend their time in profane and worldly pursuits. When God permits such things, it is a very positive proof that He is thoroughly angry with His people and is visiting His most dreadful wrath upon them." 


More prayer. More penance. 

May God have mercy on us.



TOPICS: Catholic; Current Events; Religion & Culture; Religion & Politics
KEYWORDS:
Must see Internet TV!
1 posted on 03/27/2013 8:54:21 AM PDT by Brian Kopp DPM
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To: Dr. Brian Kopp

He’s nailing 95 theses on the Cardinal’s door.


2 posted on 03/27/2013 9:08:48 AM PDT by DManA
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To: Dr. Brian Kopp

These kinds of actions by church hierarchy makes me so sad. They are supposed to be deefenders of the faith and guardians of Gods Law.

It’s not just Biden, it’s Kennedy, Pelosi and all the other liberal Catholics whose money speaks louder than the Lord. They are not setting a good example. The Lord did not say “feed my RICH sheep”.

Politicians should not be in the first few pews at any Mass. They should be set among everyone else with NO place of honor, and liberal abortion lovers should be shunned until they change their views and fight for Gods law in public.


3 posted on 03/27/2013 9:11:07 AM PDT by mardi59 (IMPEACH OBAMA NOW!!!!!)
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To: Dr. Brian Kopp

Thank you, Brian. If anyone has a transcript (I can’t find one), please provide. I would be most grateful.


4 posted on 03/27/2013 9:16:13 AM PDT by mlizzy (If people spent an hour a week in Eucharistic adoration, abortion would be ended. --Mother Teresa)
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To: DManA
He’s nailing 95 theses on the Cardinal’s door.

ROTFL!

5 posted on 03/27/2013 9:21:58 AM PDT by Alex Murphy ("If you are not firm in faith, you will not be firm at all" - Isaiah 7:9)
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To: DManA
And give The Pope the same lecture as he allowed Biden and Pelosi to take Communion at the Vatican.

The Catholic theology of my youth: Father Smith Instructs Jackson.

An Old Testament guy now, I yet worry about and pray for The Church.

6 posted on 03/27/2013 9:25:43 AM PDT by onedoug
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To: Dr. Brian Kopp

Thanks Brian. Just watched the whole thing. My heart is heavy right now.


7 posted on 03/27/2013 9:33:55 AM PDT by sneakers (Go Sheriff Joe!)
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To: Dr. Brian Kopp

Michael Voris would make an excellent Priest!


8 posted on 03/27/2013 9:36:11 AM PDT by Ken522
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To: Dr. Brian Kopp

Outstanding! He had me cheering out loud.


9 posted on 03/27/2013 9:51:03 AM PDT by pgkdan ( "Those who hammer their guns into plows will plow for those who do not." ~Thomas Jefferson)
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To: Dr. Brian Kopp

Cardinal Dolan is a nice man. He’s great for public relations and has an outgoing personality. That said, he was installed as the leader of the Catholic Church in NYC, the hotbed of liberal, pro abortion, pro gay marriage, anti religion agendas. Cardinal Dolan, thus far has come up short. He is not taking these political hacks on particulary, Biden, Cuomo & Pelosi,& Obama. If he decided to take them on, this writer believes, he would win in a landslide. It is a shame NYC is not getting that leadership from the church.


10 posted on 03/27/2013 9:52:24 AM PDT by kenmcg (scapegoat)
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To: mlizzy

I looked for a transcript yesterday to post here and had to settle for linking the YouTube video. I hope they do post a transcript.


11 posted on 03/27/2013 10:00:50 AM PDT by Brian Kopp DPM
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To: mlizzy
They posted the transcript:

SPECIAL REPORT
Dolanism and the Dolanites

Welcome to this Special Report to The Vortex where lies and falsehoods are trapped and exposed. I’m Michael Voris.

What a fantastic way for a Prince of the Church to begin Holy Week .. to deliver Jesus into the hands of Judas.

That is exactly what happened in St. Patrick’s Cathedral on Palm Sunday as anti-Catholic pro-abortion pro same-sex marriage US Vice President Joe Biden strolled up the aisle and received the Body and Blood of Jesus Christ right under the nose and with full knowledge of Cardinal Timothy Dolan.

Cardinal Dolan who apparently never misses the opportunity to publicly associate himself with the rich and powerful of the world .. gave Biden a big shout out from the altar.

So much for following Pope Francis’s example of detaching from the rich and powerful and associating with the poor. There was no shout out for the homeless guy in the back bench.

Nor was there any respect whatsoever shown to the King of Kings who was allowed to be made a sacrilege of by this prince of the Church when he was delivered over into the hands of abortion loving Biden.

And it’s good in one way that this happened. The lines are finally being drawn publically and the quiet battle going on between bishops about giving Jesus Christ to murderous politicians is finally at last on show for the world to see.

What Cardinal Dolan did is a disgrace. Call this constant pandering Dolanism. There is no other way to say it.

Dolanism .. the subordination of the Catholic faith to the prevailing cultural mores.

And whatever the Dolan loving quasi-conservative establishment crowd in the Church wants to say simply cannot erase this. Call them the Dolanites.

The Dolanites who make their handsome livings on the catholic speaker circuit .. or on Catholic television and radio networks or writing books .. who have made part of their career defending and praising this man so they can continue their boot-looking and lap- dogging cannot possibly provide a defense for this. Not this time fellas. Not this time. You breathe one word in defense of his actions and you sacrifice ANYTHING you ever say about the pro-life cause again! Don’t show up at pro-life functions. Don’t write articles, give guest appearances .. appear on stage .. jump on the radio or television airwaves. Nothing.

What Dolan did is beyond disgusting and reprehensible. First .. as Cardinal Raymond Burke .. the top canonist in the entire global universal Catholic Church has said a million times .. people like Biden and Pelosi and that whole sorry crowd MUST BE DENIED holy communion. Period. Canon 915 is explicit and not open to re-interpretation: Can. 915 “Those .. who obstinately persist in manifest grave sin are not to be admitted to holy communion.”

Dolan in New York and fellow Cardinal down the road in Washington DC Donald Wuerl do not have the right to disobey Canon Law. But that is precisely what they are doing – no matter how much spin and sides-stepping they do. Pray for them in earnest. They wont be able to side step Jesus Christ at the judgment seat.

But this Dolan worship by the establishment has gone beyond the pale. Many of them were openly cheering for him to become Pope. Heck .. even Pope Francis when he was still a cardinal in Argentina warned Catholic pro-abort politicians about not coming up to receive the body and blood of Jesus.

But let’s look at the growing record of Cardinal Dolan .. because this takes the lid right off.

In the summer of 2010 .. he sent shock waves around the United States and beyond by openly cheering a gay club that was introduced to him during Mass at the notorious St. Francis Xavier parish in New York .. a parish widely known for its no holds barred gay liturgies and functions.

Then a short while later .. he barley lifted a finger to fight .. or even speak out about gay marriage becoming law in New York.

After it passed he conveniently blamed the church’s advisors who he claimed had given him and his fellow NY bishops “bad advice”. Meanwhile .. somehow .. the entire rest of the country knew same-sex marriage was going to become law in New York.

Immediately following the midnight passage of same-sex marriage by the New York state legislature .. Dolan was mute from the pulpit the following Sunday .. saying nothing at all about it .. but did find time with the New York press crops after Mass to apologize to gays and lesbians whose feelings might have been hurt by the Church.

Dolanism .. the subordination of the Catholic faith to the prevailing cultural mores. He sat on a network news show on Thanksgiving two years ago and .. in reference to God and giving him thanks he said .. “he .. or she or whatever your belief is.”

Dolanism .. the subordination of the Catholic faith to the prevailing cultural mores. In April .. he told the Wall Street Journal that he and his fellow bishops did not preach what they should have preached about the Church’s sexual teachings because they were – his words now – gun shy. Based on the deafening lack of NOW issuing those teachings – apparently he still is.

Two years ago .. he stood in front of annual Knights of Columbus dinner in Denver and openly mocked the idea that there was a crisis in the Church. He was cheered loudly by the Dolanites.

Yep, No, no crisis here Your Eminence, right! As you close down Catholic schools by the dozens right in your own archdiocese.

Then there was the beyond the pale invitation of child-killer in chief Obama to the Al Smith dinner a couple of weeks before the presidential election where tens of thousands of Catholics all over America begged and pleaded with him to rescind the invitation and where he offered in his defense a comparison of his actions to Our Blessed Lord.

Dolanism .. the subordination of the Catholic faith to the prevailing cultural mores. And for the record for all the Dolanites out there .. Jesus ate with sinners .. not with Herod.

Then there is the history before his time in New York .. where he slapped on a cheesehead .. yep .. an NFL Green Bay Packer cheesehead at his installation Mass as archbishop of Milwaukee.

And then there is the incessant carrying on about joy and laughter .. well do forgive some of us Your Eminence if we find it hard to extricate the joy out of a situation where you are aiding in a sacrilege in your own cathedral.

And for the record .. there are many of who believe that Jesus Christ is not amused as you participate in the profaning of the body and blood of Our Lord.

And also for the record .. for those Dolanites who might wish to gamble their entire reputation on defending these spurious and disgusting actions by a prince of the Church .. and who might want to proffer the defense that he is just being “pastoral” .. consider this. It is a well known issue in the Archdiocese of New York that Cardinal Dolan has no qualms whatsoever about flexing his mighty ecclesiastical muscle in private against his priests who want to say the Traditional Latin Mass.

His well known and much feared .. but little talked-about-openly angry temper is vented with all its fury on such priests. They are threatened and brow beaten by him personally .. made to feel the lowest of the low .. all for offering the ancient Mass .. again in disobedience to the wishes of Pope Benedict.

His Eminence might be well served to vent that temper which is well known to New York Archdiocese insiders against fake Catholic politicians. But oh NO!

For them .. the red carpet .. shout outs from the sanctuary .. high fives all around and a sacrilege thrown in for good measure.

Who could seriously look at Cardinal Dolan and even entertain the thought that this man is serious about the Faith. He puts on a cheesehead during Mass. He defies canon law along with many of his brother bishops .. a majority of whom elected him to the head of their bishops’ conference.

He scandalizes the faithful by continued association with murderous politicians who in addition to spilling the blood of innocents have aimed their guns at the Church herself. He further scandalizes the faithful by aiding and abetting in sacrilege. What exactly does he not understand? How is any of this defensible by anyone in the Church?

Cardinal Dolan is quickly becoming the poster boy for all that is wrong with Church leadership these days – an almost wistful disregard for the solemnity of the Mass .. a refusal to buck the trends of a secularist culture not by filing lawsuits claiming infringement on legal rights .. but by announcing the EVIL of the object of the law itself. Dolanism .. the subordination of the Catholic faith to the prevailing cultural mores.

He is willing to back pedal and compromise and continually cede ground to the forces of darkness either because he is too cowardly to face them down or is suffering from a self- imposed delusion that this is a wining strategy.

He has been proposed by some self important establishment types in the Church .. the Dolanites .. as the model of a new style Catholicism. Puh-Leeze. There is nothing new about abandoning Christ for worldly applause.

If they are correct .. that this style is the new mode of evangelizing .. a so-called Evangelical Catholicism .. then God help the Church!

Dolanism is the product of decades of denial .. a refusal to step up and be men and leaders .. a forsaking of the masculine in favor of a highly feminized mindset among the clergy .. where the concentration is on feelings and holding hands instead of preaching the hard truths of the faith and being willing to die for them.

This is indefensible. Insiders in the New York chancery have told us privately they were shocked that Cardinal Dolan invited Obama to the Al Smith dinner .. especially when two of his predecessors had refused other pro-abortion leaders in the recent past.

And don’t forget very soon .. in a few months the openly lesbian and legally married Catholic politician Christine Quinn is .. in all likelihood going to be the next mayor of New York and she has already said very openly she will not be refused Holy Communion in the Catholic Church.

Given the recent scene in Sty. Patrick’s Cathedral .. there won’t be any show down between the LESBIAN Catholic mayor and the groveling Cardinal .. and we all know why.

God help the Catholic Church. We need to reflect on the words of St. John Eudes here ..

"The most evident mark of God's anger, and the most terrible castigation He can inflict upon the world, is manifest when He permits His people to fall into the hands of a clergy who are more in name than in deed, priests who practice the cruelty of ravening wolves rather than the charity and affection of devoted shepherds. They abandon the things of God to devote themselves to the things of the world and, in their saintly calling of holiness, they spend their time in profane and worldly pursuits. When God permits such things, it is a very positive proof that He is thoroughly angry with His people and is visiting His most dreadful wrath upon them."

This needs to be a very Holy Week indeed .. meaning penance, penance, penance .. from all of us on the behalf of our bishops. We need to beg our Father to lift this scourge from us.

GOD bless us and Love us, All

I’m Michael Voris

12 posted on 03/27/2013 11:27:52 AM PDT by Brian Kopp DPM
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To: kenmcg

Dolan is decimating Catholic education in NY at a time when our children are in dire need of being protected from the garbage being taught in all of our public schools. In June, around 20 or so Catholic grammar schools will be closed along with two Catholic high schools. He is overseeing a major tragedy and at the same time he laughs his way through the Al Smith dinner with Obama, and gives a “shout out” to that sad excuse of a Vice President.


13 posted on 03/27/2013 11:52:53 AM PDT by CdMGuy
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To: Dr. Brian Kopp
Thank you times ten...

Once again, Voris tells it like it is, but it is sad as heck. I hope Cardinal Dolan wakes up!! Prayers for all priests, bishops, cardinals, and, of course, the pope.
14 posted on 03/27/2013 12:28:58 PM PDT by mlizzy (If people spent an hour a week in Eucharistic adoration, abortion would be ended. --Mother Teresa)
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To: Dr. Brian Kopp
allowed to be made a sacrilege of by this prince of the Church when he was delivered over into the hands of abortion loving Biden.

Sacrilege is a pretty serious charge. If the Church chose could they discipline him for this?

15 posted on 03/27/2013 12:30:06 PM PDT by DManA
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To: onedoug

You said it onedoug. Why isn’t this also being directed at Pope Francis? Perhaps Cardinal Dolan sees nothing wrong with what he is doing since the same man was allowed to receive communion at the Pope’s (!) inauguration mass.

WHEN will the Church get its act together?? I can’t help but wonder wtheck is going on.


16 posted on 03/27/2013 1:22:25 PM PDT by piusv
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To: DManA; Dr. Brian Kopp
Of course it's a serious charge. It's a sacrilege going back to 1 Corinthians about receiving the Body and Blood unworthily, and thus being "guilty" of the Body and Blood of the Lord. Sacrilege? It's right on the border of Deicide.

And if any Catholic, clerical or lay, has any doubts about it, it's right there in Canon 915 in explicit black and white, made even more explicit in Cardinal Raymond Burke's (canonical) legal analysis (and Burke is head of the equivalent of the Catholic Church's Supreme Court.)

Who could discipline Dolan? He has no direct superior but the Pope.

What will Pope Francis do? It doesn't seem high on his priorities list.

At his installation Mass there wasn't even an announcement made--- as there often is even in ordinary parishes at wedding and funeral Masses --- that Communion can be received only by Catholics who have prepared themselves by fasting and are in a State of Grace --- and all others are invited to come up, if they wish, with Holy Eucharist but simply to ask for a blessing.

That wasn't even done.

. . . . . . . . .

OK. So what can we, the laity, do?

I'm telling you, if we had the zeal of our ancestors in our veins, there would be Knights of Columbus with more than ceremonial swords defending the Eucharist. Martyrs died for this.

17 posted on 03/27/2013 2:52:41 PM PDT by Mrs. Don-o (O Lord, hear my voice; O Holy One, let my cry come to You.)
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To: Mrs. Don-o

I meant could the TV host be disciplined for making a charge like this.


18 posted on 03/27/2013 2:59:22 PM PDT by DManA
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To: DManA
No, child, no. Lord love you.

For one thing, it's patent that Voris is in the right, and the sacrilege-enabling bishops wrong on this thing. They just want this issue to go away. Nobody in the clergy would try to get aggressive with Voris (I mean, what? Is there a canonical charge for --- um --- "detraction" of a bishop?) because it would make it So painfully clear that the bishops are in the wrong.

Look, I wish to God there were a crisis where this could be argued in a forensic forum (like a canonical trial) because Voris would damn well make his case.

Voris' bishop already told him -- pusillanimous tactic --- that he couldn't call his show "Real Catholic," so he changed the name to Church Militant. That's it. That's all. Full stop. They're not going to say another mumblin' word to him.

19 posted on 03/27/2013 3:30:41 PM PDT by Mrs. Don-o (O Lord, hear my voice; O Holy One, let my cry come to You.)
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To: Mrs. Don-o

I would love to see the laity do something about this...that is, if the Pope doesn’t (of which I’m not putting too much stock in right now, sorry). But then again, much of the laity would think we are badmouthing the bishops who do this and that we should trust their “pastoral” conduct (blech).

So, if “some” of the laity were to do something, what would it be? Demonstrate at St Patrick’s Cathedral? I wonder if we could actually change their minds (or if there is much more to this sorry story folks).


20 posted on 03/27/2013 3:57:02 PM PDT by piusv
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To: piusv
I don't thing demonstrating at a church is the way to go: the Left always does this, and they're wrong every time: not just on the issues, but on the tactic as well.

I would fast in front of a bishop's residence, though. A long fast, Cesar-Chavez style, repenting not of the bishop's shortcomings, but repenting for my own slack, slothful, careless, mindless puke-worthy lukewarmness toward the Great Sacrament, and inviting many to join me.

We could be an order of penitents. We could go around visibly doing penance for sacrilege. We could do the equivalent of beating the Dharma drum (what would be the Catholic equivalent? Chanting the Dies Irae) -- let others make the obvious connection to Biden, Cuomo, Pelosi. We would focus on "our own sins and those of the Church."

I'm just rattling on here. But I do think Big Penance (rather than Big Protest) is the answer.

21 posted on 03/27/2013 4:11:36 PM PDT by Mrs. Don-o (Dies irae, dies illa, Solvet sæclum in favilla: Teste David cum Sibylla!)
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To: piusv
Actually, it would be rather easy to teach a rough-hewn schola to just chant the first stanza of the Dies Irae with a big drum in the background: can you imagine a solemn, slow, deep "Boom. Boom." on the accented syllables: DI-es IR-ae, etc:

It would grab attention. It would be solemn. Incense would be good too. People dressed in sackcloth. And real, I mean real, repentance: not just a media photo-op, but a phenomenon of people in heartfelt public ritualized repentance.

Do not speak of the bishop's shortcomings, but be there -- right time, right place --- so everyone can make that connection and more.

What do you think?

22 posted on 03/27/2013 4:27:24 PM PDT by Mrs. Don-o (Dies irae, dies illa, Solvet sæclum in favilla: Teste David cum Sibylla!)
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To: Mrs. Don-o

Eh, although I get the “no protest” protest (lol), I’m not so sure people would make the connection to the violation of canon 915 without it being painstakingly obvious...not to mention that most Catholics don’t even *know* what Canon 915 is.


23 posted on 03/27/2013 4:42:09 PM PDT by piusv
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To: piusv
Sure, we have to make the explicit connection someplace. But someplace else. It should not be the penitents carrying signs ("Yo, Bishop! 915!")

I'm belaboring this point because the #1 spiritual poison that will ruin us on this, is moral grandstanding, the pharasaical frisson that comes from "YOU'RE wrong , YOU'RE a Judas Priest and I'm telling the world."

It has to be personal repentance, and repentance of us on behalf of Our Church.

I'm casting about for a way to avoid the neighing, buck-toothed High Horse of self-righteousness that can quickly carry away this kind of campaign. Moral indignation is a drug. I know. I have a weakness for it. ("My name is Meg. I am a Reproach-aholic.") I can get hooked in a heartbeat.

So one must scrupulously avoid a oversized wagging Judge Judy finger that points to anybody other than "me" or "us."

On the other hand...

: : : : : sigh : : : : :

I want to beat the drum.

24 posted on 03/27/2013 5:52:39 PM PDT by Mrs. Don-o ("Now pair off in three's. " - Yogi Berra)
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To: piusv

25 posted on 03/27/2013 6:07:11 PM PDT by Mrs. Don-o (Schola cantorum, with a bit of percussion.)
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To: Mrs. Don-o

Let’s think theoretically, not practically.

A laymen has accused a Bishop of sacrilege. What’s the worst they can do to him? Excommunicate him I suppose.

But think about this. A layman is laying the most serious charge possible on a Bishop of the Church. You seem to agree with him.

What are you going to do about it?


26 posted on 03/27/2013 9:21:04 PM PDT by DManA
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To: Mrs. Don-o

I’m not trying to trap you, I’m trying to understand.

You free as a Roman Catholic laymen (I’m assuming you are) to accept or reject the teaching of your Bishop?


27 posted on 03/27/2013 9:35:57 PM PDT by DManA
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To: DManA

I’m not Mrs DOn-o, but I would argue that we aren’t required to accept what our Bishops do if it goes against teaching or if it isn’t truly doctrine. In this case it appears that Church law (vs doctrine) has been ignored.

From what I am gathering, bishops are allowed to respond to Church law as they see fit; however, I have also seen strong comments, writings by Cardinal Burke, head of Canon Law (not sure of the exact title or group) saying that this particular Church law *must* be obeyed.

I think this particular law is too serious to be left to bishop’s judgment. I would like to see the Pope himself make a statement as to denying communion to politicians who promote anti/non-Catholic views. This is serious stuff and should be something the Church shows unity on. But I’m not feeling to oconfident that our POpe will do such a thing.


28 posted on 03/28/2013 5:22:54 AM PDT by piusv
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To: DManA
"A laymen has accused a Bishop of sacrilege. What’s the worst they can do to him? Excommunicate him I suppose."

Help me out here --- I need a clarificaton. When you say "excommunicate him," do you mean excommunicate the Bishop, or excommunicate the layman?

29 posted on 03/28/2013 6:34:48 AM PDT by Mrs. Don-o (Allah fubar.)
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To: DManA
"You free as a Roman Catholic laymen (I’m assuming you are) to accept or reject the teaching of your Bishop?"

We are obliged to accept his teaching which is in conformity with the truths which Christ teaches us in the Catholic Church.

We are obliged to reject his teachings when they are against those truths.

A good example of this would be the martyrdom of St. Thomas More --- a 16th century layman: husband, father, chancellor of England --- whose position in the matter of King Henry VIII contradicted that of every bishoip in England, except John Fisher.

And to the point: a bishop who offers Communion to a person in manifest, grave, obstinate and unrepentant sin, is in violation of Scripture (1 Corinthians) and, exactly and specifically, of Canon Law (Canon 915).

These bishops --- all of them --- are clearly in the wrong. No one has an obligation to obey a sinful order, even from a Bishop. Even from a Pope. Even from a demon assuming the appearance of an angel of light!

30 posted on 03/28/2013 6:41:44 AM PDT by Mrs. Don-o (Allah fubar.)
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To: piusv; DManA
I think Papa Francis might. He took an exceedingly hard and public line against the Kircher govt. in Argentina on abortion and gay marriage, and even defended not giving Communion to divorced/remarried couples.

All of which is solidly in conformity with Catholic doctrine and law.

I think we need to pray for Pope Francis. He's got 100,000 things on his agenda, and it's just a matter of what things he puts on his Top One Hundred list.

Let's see if he supports Cardinal Raymond Burke or leave him out there hanging.

31 posted on 03/28/2013 6:47:00 AM PDT by Mrs. Don-o (Allah fubar.)
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To: netmilsmom; thefrankbaum; Tax-chick; GregB; saradippity; Berlin_Freeper; Litany; SumProVita; ...

Ping!


32 posted on 03/28/2013 6:47:07 AM PDT by NYer (Beware the man of a single book - St. Thomas Aquinas)
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To: Dr. Brian Kopp

Must see indeed. Voris is doing God’s work here, unlike Cardinal Dolan.


33 posted on 03/28/2013 6:53:09 AM PDT by trisham (Zen is not easy. It takes effort to attain nothingness. And then what do you have? Bupkis.)
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To: Mrs. Don-o

Yes, the layman. I tried to clarify that in #18.


34 posted on 03/28/2013 7:24:37 AM PDT by DManA
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To: DManA; piusv; don-o
OK, now I get what you were saying.

No, a layman cannot be excommunicated for saying his bishop is guilty of sacrilege. No ecclesiastical penalty can be brought against him whatsoever if

There's a Canon on that, but right now I don't have time to look it up. It's basically, you can't say "My bishop is a --- I'll put it in Latin --- saquus shitentiae," or words to that effect. :o0

Canon Law cannot be used to penalize anyone who is respectfully exhorting his ecclesiastical superior to act lawfully.

People who did that are canonized saints, e.g. St. Catherine of Siena.

35 posted on 03/28/2013 9:40:52 AM PDT by Mrs. Don-o ("The floor of hell is paved with the skulls of bishops." - St. John Chrysostom, Bishop)
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To: Mrs. Don-o
Can you think of a more serious charge than that a priest is committing sacrilege with the Blood of Jesus?
36 posted on 03/28/2013 9:59:23 AM PDT by DManA ( t)
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To: Dr. Brian Kopp
Thank you for posting this very interesting and thought-provoking video link.

Cardinal Dolan is a very friendly and likable guy, but he seems to have some serious and dangerous blind spots, including these involving "anti-Catholic Catholic" celebrities who openly flout and thumb their noses at certain Catholic teachings on faith and morals and intrinsic evils, including abortion, homosexual behaviors, etc.

One thought that has crossed my mind before in dealing with Cardinal Dolan and the USCCB on some of these very important issues is

$$$-MONEY-$$$

The USCCB often bundles their CSA funding campaigns with the CCHD funding campaigns, which have included funding for pro-abortion and pro-homo-behavior groups.

Some priests have said they will divert regular collection basket money to their CSA and CCHD funds, and my thought was to maybe consider specifically directing our "tithes, almsgiving, and other offerings/collections" to specific kinds of organizations, such as EWTN, various Catholic Radio groups, various good organizations who help the poor and hungry, etc., as opposed to the favorite funds of the U.S. Bishops.

I think the U.S. Bishops will actually listen to

$$$-MONEY-$$$

when they might not listen to anything else.

37 posted on 03/28/2013 10:41:31 AM PDT by Heart-Rest ("God is Love" 1 John 4:8)
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To: DManA
"Can you think of a more serious charge than that a priest is committing sacrilege with the Blood of Jesus?"

No. That's what we call "grave matter." Which means, objecively speaking, as bad as you can get.

38 posted on 03/28/2013 12:32:02 PM PDT by Mrs. Don-o ("The floor of hell is paved with the skulls of bishops." - St. John Chrysostom, Bishop)
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To: Heart-Rest; Dr. Brian Kopp
HR, I know about CCHD. What is CSA?

Dr. Brian, I give very modestly to my parish. I haven't given to my Diocese for years, even though it's a pretty conservative, morally straight and worthy Diocese, and Bishop Stika is pretty Catholic.. But I don't give anything precisely because the Diocese still trucks with CCHD.

I confine my charitable Catholic giving to specific (local, small) organizations that don't outsource, subcontract, share, liaise, or form coalitions with other organizations, or through-put money, goods or services in any way.

"Structures of injustice," as they say? The USCCB itself is a structure of injustice, IMHO.

39 posted on 03/28/2013 12:42:16 PM PDT by Mrs. Don-o ("The floor of hell is paved with the skulls of bishops." - St. John Chrysostom, Bishop)
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To: Mrs. Don-o

Catholic Services Appeal?


40 posted on 03/28/2013 1:50:31 PM PDT by Brian Kopp DPM
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To: Dr. Brian Kopp

Just googled it and I guess that’s right. I don’t think we have that in the Diocese of Knoxville.


41 posted on 03/28/2013 2:41:49 PM PDT by Mrs. Don-o ("You can observe a lot just by watchin' ." - Yogi Berra)
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To: DManA; Mrs. Don-o
Which is correct, the Code of Canon Law or the Bishop, that's the real question.

A Bishop can talk about a "pastoral" approach all he likes but I can't find anything anywhere that says Canon Law can be ignored for the sake of a "pastoral" approach.

Besides, what sort of "pastoral" approach is it for a Bishop to encourage someone they're supposed to care about to continue mocking the Eucharist and damning themself in clear violation of Canon Law and Scripture?

It's like a drunk who periodically goes on drinking and womanizing binges being "helped" by his physician prescribing amphetamines and Viagra for him. It makes no sense to argue that the crafty physician is applying reverse psychology and by encouraging even more self-destructive behavior is helping his patient.

Don't forget about the people who see such a clear insult to the Eucharist and obvious violation of Canon Law. Who is looking out for their pastoral care when the Bishop makes it clear that both Canon Law and Scripture are to be taken with a grain of salt? Far from being a reasonable "pastoral" approach, this is a fostering of disrespect for Canon Law, the Bishop himself, the Church, Scripture, and the Eucharist.

If the Bishop is going to completely disregard Canon Law, Scripture, and the sacred nature of the Eucharist, the Bishop may as well grab himself a nun off the next bus that passes through town and nail his list of Dolanisms to the Cathedral door.

As for the laity, Catholics aren't expected to march into Hell with their eyes wide open in the name of obedience to a Bishop who seems intent on having his skull added to the skulls of Bishops already paving Hell.

42 posted on 03/28/2013 3:48:50 PM PDT by Rashputin (Jesus Christ doesn't evacuate His troops, He leads them to victory.)
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To: Rashputin

Didn’t Francis make the same mistake? Why are you incensed about the Bishop and not the Pope?

http://www.usnews.com/news/blogs/Ken-Walshs-Washington/2013/03/20/biden-pelosi-stir-controversy-by-taking-communion


43 posted on 03/28/2013 7:58:26 PM PDT by DManA
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To: Rashputin

I’m not trying to trap you. I am honestly trying to understand your point of view.

How is the Pope’s actions different from the Bishop’s? They both gave them Communion and they both shook the hands of abortion advocates.


44 posted on 03/28/2013 8:25:14 PM PDT by DManA
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To: Rashputin

So did your Pope. What do think about that?


45 posted on 03/28/2013 9:08:29 PM PDT by DManA (ab)
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To: Mrs. Don-o; Dr. Brian Kopp
"HR, I know about CCHD. What is CSA?"

Yes, that is the "Catholic Services Appeal".

For an example of one Diocese that bundles those two funds, and delayed all that a few years ago because of the CCHD problems (which apparently are still not completely straightened out), check out this link (one among many links like it): http://prolifeactionoforegon.org/2010/06/21/michigan-bishop-withholds-cchd-funds/

I'm thinking it might be a good idea to share that youtube video link at the top of this thread with all the good American Catholics we know, to make them aware of these matters anyway, so maybe the Bishops will feel a little "heat" from the laity about their abuse of the Holy Eucharist.

46 posted on 03/28/2013 9:10:57 PM PDT by Heart-Rest ("God is Love" 1 John 4:8)
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To: Heart-Rest
    Here's that link for post 46
47 posted on 03/28/2013 9:18:02 PM PDT by Heart-Rest ("God is Love" 1 John 4:8)
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To: Heart-Rest

Thanks, I appreciate the ping. Interesting.


48 posted on 03/28/2013 9:33:12 PM PDT by Mrs. Don-o ("It isn't what we don't know that gives us trouble, it's what we know that ain't so." - Will Rogers)
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To: DManA
I think with five hundred priests serving, the fact that Francis isn't a parish priest who should recognize everyone, and who knows how many layers of people organizing things who may be like Benedict's secretary, I can believe Francis made an mistake. It's also possible that there is something I haven't found yet that makes an inaugural Mass an exception of some sort since those serving won't know many of those who are at the Mass.

Basically, there's a reasonable chance Francis or those organizing things screwed up or got set up.

Dolan, by comparison, is regularly thumbing his nose at Canon 915 and asserting that he can ignore Canon 915 whenever he feels like it. He then proves it's no big deal by having T-I-double-grrrr Biden bounce off to the Hundred Acre Wood with Pooh Bear Dolan for honey and chit chat. Dolan has "pastoral" and "political" twisted together and either can't or won't separate them.

Dolan isn't making a mistake when in the past he's obeyed 915. He's not in the position of someone who isn't familiar with, say, the Easter and Christmas crowd, and consciously decides to err on the pastoral side of things even though that means he will be violating Canon 915 because some of those he doesn't know shouldn't be served.

He knows the negative consequences of letting high profile people routinely violate Canon 915 and he's putting his relationship with such individuals ahead of his concerns for everything else. Consider just one negative consequence, he's arguing the government's case for them to some extent even while in court to halt the government from imposing the HHS mandate.,

Every time he openly ignores Canon 915 he's publicly stating that Canon Law isn't a big deal and can ignored to benefit some "greater good" or when something is received in return for ignoring Canon Law.

The government is arguing that forcing people to violate something like Canon Law, a standard of behavior, or their personal conscience, is inconsequential. The can point to Church teaching about contraceptives not leading to people being refused communion as proof that Canon Law is arbitrary and capricious at any rate because even Bishop Dolan takes Canon Law with a grain of salt.

49 posted on 03/29/2013 12:22:19 AM PDT by Rashputin (Jesus Christ doesn't evacuate His troops, He leads them to victory.)
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To: Dr. Brian Kopp

All those Catholic Action Forums ‘sit down to pee girly boy’ moderators have to be having fits over this slight at their hero with clay feet Dolan...

...how’s that for being uncharitable?


50 posted on 03/30/2013 7:19:58 AM PDT by exPBRrat
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