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Good Thursday (Jesus Crucified on Thursday, a very good read)
Ted Montgomery website ^ | Seveal years ago | Ted Montgomery

Posted on 03/28/2013 1:47:41 PM PDT by FoxPro

In ancient Israel, including during the first century A.D., preparations for the Pesach or Passover feast took place on “Preparation Day.” In the middle of the afternoon (that is, at beyn ha’arbayim, often referred to as “twilight”) on that day, the Passover lamb was sacrificed at the temple in Jerusalem. After sunset, when Preparation Day had ended and the Feast of Unleavened Bread had begun, the lamb and other specific foods for the Pesach feast were eaten.

Jesus was crucified and died on Preparation Day. Traditionally, this has been thought to have been on a Friday. I would like to demonstrate that Jesus’ crucifixion and death occurred not on a Friday (the sixth day of the week), as has been traditionally accepted, but rather on the previous day, Thursday (the fifth day of the week).

(Excerpt) Read more at tedmontgomery.com ...


TOPICS: Apologetics; Theology
KEYWORDS: christ; revisionisthistory
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I enjoyed reading this several years ago on the day before Good Friday. It got me into the "Easter Spirit". Ted is a smart and thoughtful guy. Don't abuse him please.
1 posted on 03/28/2013 1:47:41 PM PDT by FoxPro
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To: FoxPro

BTTT


2 posted on 03/28/2013 1:49:39 PM PDT by Bradís Gramma (Psalm 83)
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To: FoxPro

makes more sense if “On the THIRD DAY” he rose again

When I was in grade school taught by the nuns in the convent they yelled at me for pointing out that if he died on Friday then saturday and sunday was only 2 days

yes I was a wiseacre kid


3 posted on 03/28/2013 1:50:29 PM PDT by Mr. K (There are lies, damned lies, statistics, and democrat talking points.)
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To: FoxPro

That works out better for the “on the third day” thing also.


4 posted on 03/28/2013 1:53:02 PM PDT by reg45 (Barack 0bama: Implementing class warfare by having no class.)
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To: FoxPro
Good Thursday for Jesus Crucification on Thursday is EXACTLY CORRECT.

Friday is NOT 3 full days and 3 full nights, proof from Hebrew Calendar. I have several proof articles of analysis that debunks the false notion of a Friday Crucification - Friday Simply does not work Biblically nor by Hebrew Calendar.

5 posted on 03/28/2013 1:53:18 PM PDT by AmbassadorForChrist
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To: FoxPro

Does that mean the crucifixion took place on Thursday April 2nd, 33 A.D. ?


6 posted on 03/28/2013 1:53:25 PM PDT by Perdogg (Sen Ted Cruz, Sen Mike Lee, and Sen Rand Paul are my adoptive Senators)
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To: FoxPro

Actually, in accords to when Passover and the First day of Unleavened Bread occurred in Jerusalem when Jesus was around 33 years old - He most likely was crucified on Wednesday morning and died Wednesday afternoon around 3PM (the ninth hour). He would have been put in the tomb by sunset.

That sunset was an high holy day, a high Sabbath (the 15th of Nissan) and the First day of Unleavened Bread (Leviticus 23) the very night the Hebrews were led out of slavery in Egypt.

The lambs were slaughtered on the afternoon of the 14th - and since Jesus literally became our Passover Lamb - it fits with scripture that He died on Passover itself (the 14th).

That would reckon 3 nights and 3 full days in the tomb.

He arose sometime after sunset on Saturday (the regular Sabbath) and the women came to the tomb on Sunday morning “While it was still dark” (John 20:1) and Jesus was already not in the tomb.


7 posted on 03/28/2013 1:55:23 PM PDT by INVAR ("Fart for liberty, fart for freedom and fart proudly!" - Benjamin Franklin)
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To: Perdogg

Passover was on a Wednesday April 25th, in 31 A.D, with the First Day of Unleavened Bread on Thursday the 26th and the regular Sabbath that Friday at sunset.

In 33 AD Passover was Saturday April 4th so that would not jive with the scriptures.


8 posted on 03/28/2013 1:59:06 PM PDT by INVAR ("Fart for liberty, fart for freedom and fart proudly!" - Benjamin Franklin)
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To: Perdogg

In 30 A.D. Passover was on a Friday - however, as others pointed out - you cannot get 3 full nights and 3 days in the heart of the earth by a Friday at sunset burial to Sunday morning resurrection.


9 posted on 03/28/2013 2:01:36 PM PDT by INVAR ("Fart for liberty, fart for freedom and fart proudly!" - Benjamin Franklin)
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To: INVAR

I thought He rose again on the third day in fulfillment of the Scriptures. He was crucified on the first day, Friday. He was still dead on the second day, Saturday. He rose from the dead on the 3rd day, Sunday.


10 posted on 03/28/2013 2:05:58 PM PDT by Sirius Lee (All that is required for evil to advance is for government to do "something")
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To: FoxPro
SIGH....The Jewish reckoning of time is not the same in the 1st century is not the same as ours is today.Please do not believe anything I am going to tell you with out verifying it. Ask moses.com has some tremendous rabbinical scholars that will verify this.

In the first century the Jewish people understood any part of a day to be "A day and a night." It did not have to be literally 24 hours.

Technically Jesus could have been put in the tomb at 11:59:59 pm on Friday and Risen on Sunday morning at 12:00:01 am and even those this was 24 hours and 2 seconds according to the Jewish reckoning at that time it would have counted as 3 days and 3 nights.

As i said please don't take my word for this go to Ask moses.com find a rabbinical scholar that is an expert on the 1st century and ask him. This is where i got my information from.

11 posted on 03/28/2013 2:07:52 PM PDT by verga (A nation divided by Zero!)
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To: AmbassadorForChrist

Three 24 hour days in the tomb, and full days were calculated from sundown to sundown. Risen the morning after the third day, sounds like Wednesday would be closer.

Any way it is sliced now, the celebration is the thing.


12 posted on 03/28/2013 2:08:10 PM PDT by petro45acp (No good endeavour survives an excess of adult supervision)
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To: Sirius Lee

Matthew 12:40 - Jesus’ own words discounts a Friday to Sunday burial to resurrection.

3 DAYS and 3 NIGHTS

“For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the great fish, so will the Son of Man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.”

You cannot get even parts of 3 days and 3 full nights by the reckoning of tradition.


13 posted on 03/28/2013 2:11:18 PM PDT by INVAR ("Fart for liberty, fart for freedom and fart proudly!" - Benjamin Franklin)
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To: Mr. K

FWIW-Jewish people call a day- a 24 hour period - started at sunset. Sunset- to Sunset is a day. :)


14 posted on 03/28/2013 2:15:35 PM PDT by Truth2012
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To: verga

The Jewish reckoning of time has NEVER changed.

A full day is counted as from sunset to the following sunset.

So there was no ambiguity - Jesus specifically stated ‘ 3 days AND 3 nights’. A 12 hour period of daytime and a 12 hour period of night.

How can anyone witness to Atheists and non-Christians who point to the tradition of a Friday to Sunday burial and resurrection as why the Bible is not to be trusted?

Tradition is what is in error here - NOT scripture.

If we would rather stand by tradition rather than biblical fact and accounting - then we worship a false Messiah by His own words if He died on a Friday and rose on Sunday morning.


15 posted on 03/28/2013 2:16:17 PM PDT by INVAR ("Fart for liberty, fart for freedom and fart proudly!" - Benjamin Franklin)
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To: verga

Askmoses.com has searchable archives. Please link to your question and the response.


16 posted on 03/28/2013 2:19:09 PM PDT by jjotto ("Ya could look it up!")
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To: jjotto
Askmoses.com has searchable archives. Please link to your question and the response.

this was well over 5 years probably closer to 10 yeas ago.

17 posted on 03/28/2013 2:21:27 PM PDT by verga (A nation divided by Zero!)
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To: FoxPro; All
People who reject Jesus' own words in Matthew 12:40 “For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the great fish, so will the Son of Man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.” Also who reject God own words in Lev. 23...

...must also as necessity reject the Word of God regarding 3 DAYS and 3 NIGHTS with myths or anything to uphold their worship of a Friday Crucifixion.

Romans 3:4 let God be true, but every man a liar. Jesus’ own words talk truthfully about a 3 days and 3 nights event; He truthfully discounts the false notion that developed centuries later about a Friday to Sunday burial to resurrection.

Lev. 23 also is specific on the dates and practices of the observance of the Passover.

18 posted on 03/28/2013 2:28:16 PM PDT by AmbassadorForChrist
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To: FoxPro

The sacraficial lamb, the Pesash is not eaten at the Passover Seder. Code of Jewish Law O.H. 476:1


19 posted on 03/28/2013 2:33:54 PM PDT by Truth2012
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To: FoxPro

Maybe I’m not understanding, but seems to me this would mean the apostles and early Church got it wrong for 2k years. To me, that is very hard to believe.


20 posted on 03/28/2013 2:34:28 PM PDT by D-fendr (Deus non alligatur sacramentis sed nos alligamur.)
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To: D-fendr
This nonsense gets trotted out every year by someone with an ax to grind.

It is always premised on the notion that we know the exact year of the crucifixion (which we do not) and that the rabbinic calculation of the date of Passover has been unvarying (which is not the case).

The goal is typically to undermine the orthodox cycle of Christian feasts and to promote the recent innovation known as Sabbatarianism.

21 posted on 03/28/2013 2:55:22 PM PDT by wideawake
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To: wideawake

Thanks much. I had to look up Sabbatarianism. I’m always learning something on these threads...


22 posted on 03/28/2013 3:00:57 PM PDT by D-fendr (Deus non alligatur sacramentis sed nos alligamur.)
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To: D-fendr

What does your tagline translate into?

Is it Gaelic?


23 posted on 03/28/2013 3:09:35 PM PDT by FoxPro
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To: Mr. K

No, according to the ancient Hebrew reckoning it’s three days: Friday, Saturday, Sunday.

Jesus’ body went into the tomb on Friday (day 1), was there all of Saturday (day 2), and he rose in the morning of Sunday (day 3).


24 posted on 03/28/2013 3:35:52 PM PDT by vladimir998
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To: Mr. K

You are confusing, “on the third day” to “in three days”. There is a difference. FCS


25 posted on 03/28/2013 3:42:05 PM PDT by Knight Templar
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To: wideawake; D-fendr
the rabbinic calculation of the date of Passover has been unvarying (which is not the case).

I would take exception to this part of your statement. Rabbinical calculations have nothing to do with it. How to determine Passover is a very precise formulation found directly in the Law, depending upon the ripened barley. Since Jerusalem is in friendly hands, the Biblical precept can and should be followed precisely.

It is interesting to suppose that the Biblical precept IS orthodoxy; that those following what is called orthodoxy in Judaism and Christianity are the innovators; and that the pressure to repent of those innovations is occurring upon both sides of the theological fence.

26 posted on 03/28/2013 3:45:51 PM PDT by roamer_1 (Globalism is just socialism in a business suit.)
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To: FoxPro
Yawn. We go through this every Easter.

So, which date is it!

27 posted on 03/28/2013 4:37:16 PM PDT by Ruy Dias de Bivar (The murals in OKC are destroyed.)
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To: Ruy Dias de Bivar

And I like going through this every Easter.


28 posted on 03/28/2013 4:47:21 PM PDT by FoxPro
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To: FoxPro

It’s latin, roughly: God is not bound by the sacraments, but we are.


29 posted on 03/28/2013 4:49:56 PM PDT by D-fendr (Deus non alligatur sacramentis sed nos alligamur.)
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To: INVAR
Believe me or don't, I really don't care one way or the other. The Bible says supports my position and you ignore it by your own choice.
30 posted on 03/28/2013 6:22:48 PM PDT by verga (A nation divided by Zero!)
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To: FoxPro

There is also a school of thought that maintains that a man named “Jesus” never existed.

Too many Joe Palookas thinking (if you can call it that) too hard.


31 posted on 03/28/2013 6:26:14 PM PDT by Revolting cat! (Bad things are wrong! Ice cream is delicious!)
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To: verga

No I do not believe you, because your position is not found in scripture... ANYWHERE.

Show me the scripture where God changed the dates of His appointed Feasts as laid out in Leviticus 23 and practiced by the Hebrews since the Exodus?

Where did God change the reckoning of what consisted of a Day from Genesis 1?

You cite “rabbinical Scholars” as your proof. I’m only interested in what scripture, and biblical history have to say on the subject - not “scholars”.

Jesus said 3 Days, and 3 Nights was the only proof of His messiahship.

If Jesus was only in the heart of the earth for PARTS of 3 days or PARTS of 3 nights - then we believe in a false messiah.

We either believe what Jesus said and scripture records - or we can choose to follow tradition and the inane reasoning of ‘scholars’ who push tradition over plain language.

Here’s an analogy to the absurdity of leaning on ‘scholars’ for understanding scripture.

The Constitution. In 100 years - “Scholars” may well teach that the First Amendment was ALWAYS about separating religion from government and public. The entirety of society may well accept that teaching as a fact. Regardless that is not what the Constitution plainly says and the writings and historical documents of what they said at the time does not support such a tradition. But if tradition is more important than the plain words printed, men can choose to craft whatever belief they want other men to follow.

We’re watching the Left do to the Constitution what men have done to scripture over the millennia.

I choose the plain language in context of both scripture itself, and the historical evidence at the time.

That for me, means my savior was crucified and died on a Wednesday in 31 A.D. and was discovered to have Risen from the tomb on Sunday morning, before dawn, in accordance with the scriptures.


32 posted on 03/28/2013 8:00:11 PM PDT by INVAR ("Fart for liberty, fart for freedom and fart proudly!" - Benjamin Franklin)
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To: INVAR
As i said I don't care if you believe me or not, it is no skin off my nose one way or the other.
33 posted on 03/28/2013 8:57:25 PM PDT by verga (A nation divided by Zero!)
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To: roamer_1

The core issue is this: where does Scripture tell us that the month of Nisan is to be calculated with respect to the barley season?


34 posted on 04/01/2013 6:34:51 AM PDT by wideawake
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To: Revolting cat!

That particular school of thought is a bit ridiculous - if Jesus was not a historical person, then many, many other historical personages will have to be dismissed as well. There are not too many historical figures in the ancient period who had four different biographies written about them.


35 posted on 04/01/2013 6:39:51 AM PDT by wideawake
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To: INVAR; verga
So, in other words, He rose on the fourth day and not the third day.

Or, alternately, Mt 16:21, Mt. 17:23, Lk 9:22, Lk 18:33, Lk 24:7, Lk 24:46, Acts 10:40 and 1 Cor 15:4 are wrong - but your personal views are right.

36 posted on 04/01/2013 6:48:55 AM PDT by wideawake
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To: wideawake
Link to another thread that invar is ignoring the facts on http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/1114327/posts?page=120#120.

He is claiming to be a pastor and i have given up replying to him.

37 posted on 04/01/2013 6:53:58 AM PDT by verga (A nation divided by Zero!)
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To: wideawake
The core issue is this: where does Scripture tell us that the month of Nisan is to be calculated with respect to the barley season?

If the barley is abib @ the new moon, the month begins, otherwise 29 days later. Is that what you are getting at?

38 posted on 04/01/2013 7:46:56 AM PDT by roamer_1 (Globalism is just socialism in a business suit.)
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To: roamer_1
What I am getting at is the absence of direct Scriptural evidence connecting the ripening of barley and the date of Passover.

This leads into the subjectivity of the dating and the problem of retrojecting a computus that was invented well after the destruction of the Second Temple into dating events that occurred before it.

39 posted on 04/01/2013 9:43:16 AM PDT by wideawake
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To: verga; INVAR
What bothers me is the pride associated with the mindset that concludes: "Everyone who came before me was wrong. Even though I cannot read these texts in the original languages, I am smarter than everyone who can, and I am smarter than everyone else who came before me for the past two thousand years."

INVAR, you speak of "plain language" - well, "on the third day" is plain language.

And, by definition, if you are using (anachronistically) full 24 hour days then something cannot happen on the third day if three full days and nights were supposed to pass before it happened.

40 posted on 04/01/2013 10:08:14 AM PDT by wideawake
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To: wideawake
< i>So, in other words, He rose on the fourth day and not the third day. Or, alternately, Mt 16:21, Mt. 17:23, Lk 9:22, Lk 18:33, Lk 24:7, Lk 24:46, Acts 10:40 and 1 Cor 15:4 are wrong - but your personal views are right.

My PERSONAL views????

Here's what Jesus HIMSELF SAID was the ONLY sign of His messiahship FROM THE SCRIPTURES in Matthew 12:40:

For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the great fish, so will the Son of Man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth." - MT 12:40

That's not my PERSONAL VIEW - that is WHAT JESUS SAID.

So either Jesus is a liar or your tradition is. We worship a false messiah if He indeed died on a Friday afternoon at 3 and was Resurrected on Sunday morning at dawn. Such is the truth - whether you want to sneer at it or not.

By the way - Atheists and secularists have a field day wiping the floor with Christians who use traditions contrary to scripture to justify their faith.

41 posted on 04/01/2013 6:55:00 PM PDT by INVAR ("Fart for liberty, fart for freedom and fart proudly!" - Benjamin Franklin)
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To: INVAR
That's quite a lot of posturing - but not a lot of reasoning.

Why do the Scriptures say in ten places that He rises on the third day?

What authority do you have to claim that one verse overrules ten others?

Are we to accept the whole Scripture, or just INVAR's favorite verse?

42 posted on 04/01/2013 7:42:25 PM PDT by wideawake
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To: wideawake

I guess Jesus’ word “AFTER” in Mark 8:31 mean nothing either.

I’ll give you another one of my favorite verses. Applies to you.

“In vain they worship Me, teaching instead the doctrines and traditions of men” - Matthew 15:9


43 posted on 04/01/2013 8:49:07 PM PDT by INVAR ("Fart for liberty, fart for freedom and fart proudly!" - Benjamin Franklin)
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To: INVAR

What seminary did you earn your MDiv from?


44 posted on 04/02/2013 2:07:12 AM PDT by verga (A nation divided by Zero!)
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To: INVAR
Again, what of Luke 24:7? And the other Scriptures that speak of the third day?

None say "the fourth day" except by inference - and that inference is based on a 21st century understanding of chronology, not a 1st century one.

An aside: citing Scripture - the Word of God - as a petty insult on a web forum is probably playing with fire.

45 posted on 04/02/2013 3:50:10 AM PDT by wideawake
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To: wideawake
What I am getting at is the absence of direct Scriptural evidence connecting the ripening of barley and the date of Passover.

According to my understanding:

There is a command in the Torah which particularly specifies the passover is to be in 'the abib'... not the MONTH of Abib, but in the month of 'the abib'. That month BEGINS according to the Barley being abib

One needs to understand the term 'abib/aviv'. This is roughly a state where the barley ear is no longer liquid, but still soft (not able to grind outright into flour). It is necessary for the barley to be 'abib' (at that state) in order for it to be ripe enough by First Fruits, for the purpose of performing the First Fruits offering.

If it is a cold spring, the barley will not be abib, and the First Fruits offering would not be able to be made. If the barley is not 'abib' at the end of Adar (the last month of the year according to the Torah), then it will not be ready (ripe) for the offering. In such a case, one must wait for the next new moon, when it certainly will be ripe... and so Adar II, the 'leap month' is inserted between Adar and Aviv.

This is the only Biblical precept for determining the new year. It is not according to a counting of days or weeks, and it is not according to the vernal equinox. Only the state of the barley before/at the new moon following Adar.

I think it is pretty cool, as it leaves the governing of YHWH's Holy Days in YHWH's hands alone, as nothing can be set until one knows the first month is established. No long term planning, no predicting. Just DO... A hard thing for a corporate body (like a priesthood) to endure, no doubt...

And it is a substantial PIA if one tries to test history to find events according to YHWH's calendar instead the of the Roman one. Every event has to be tested against normal (one can find the new moon astronomically) vs. +1 day vs. +29 days vs. 29+1 days. Trying to find a pattern in any given year would blow your mind.

But I think it is purposeful - I think the events on those days are preserved in history BECAUSE no one has been paying attention to the barley.

This leads into the subjectivity of the dating and the problem of retrojecting a computus that was invented well after the destruction of the Second Temple into dating events that occurred before it.

That is the only thing that is direct and scriptural. You will find no other.

The current Jewish calendar is admittedly a Pharisaical invention. To a degree, it is credible invention, as one of the few things that almost assuredly DID happen at the much maligned Council of Jamnia was an effort to preserve the Holy Days in diaspora. Since they could no longer sight the moon and test the barley at Jerusalem, there was no way to determine the beginning of the year, and thereby, no way to assign the spring Holy Days. In fact, ALL the Holy Days are based upon the sighting of the new moon at Jerusalem every month.

Even now, there is a substantial movement among the conservative Jews to restore Biblical reckoning.

46 posted on 04/02/2013 11:35:25 AM PDT by roamer_1 (Globalism is just socialism in a business suit.)
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To: wideawake; INVAR
What authority do you have to claim that one verse overrules ten others?

Beggin' your pardon, but this is a primary example of difference in interpretation. My reply to you would be, "How can ten verses overrule the one?

It would seem that 'rightly dividing' would require ALL the verses to be true. One cannot cherry-pick:

Isa 28:9 Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts.
Isa 28:10 For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little:
Isa 28:11 For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people.
Isa 28:12 To whom he said, This is the rest wherewith ye may cause the weary to rest; and this is the refreshing: yet they would not hear.
Isa 28:13 But the word of the LORD was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken.

ALL of it MUST be true, as YHWH's word does not return to him empty.

For me, the riddle is where the work is. That which seems to be contradictory must be addressed and worked out, or one suffers the Word against ones own desires and the homogeneity of common perception (milk).

47 posted on 04/02/2013 12:02:18 PM PDT by roamer_1 (Globalism is just socialism in a business suit.)
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To: wideawake; verga; INVAR
What bothers me is the pride associated with the mindset that concludes: "Everyone who came before me was wrong. Even though I cannot read these texts in the original languages, I am smarter than everyone who can, and I am smarter than everyone else who came before me for the past two thousand years."

Careful now, for the example given for our examination goes quite the other way:

The authority and common consensus when Yeshua walked the earth was also two thousand years in the making, and was completely wrong. They missed the time of their visitation. It was the ones who went against the common notion who were able to see Yeshua for what He was.

What do you suppose that example serves?

48 posted on 04/02/2013 12:14:09 PM PDT by roamer_1 (Globalism is just socialism in a business suit.)
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To: roamer_1
According to my understanding:

So we should take your understanding over 10 direct quotes from scripture. The testimony of Askmoses.com, and a Jewish visitor here. Well heck that is good enough for me. /SARC

49 posted on 04/02/2013 1:15:02 PM PDT by verga (A nation divided by Zero!)
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To: verga
So we should take your understanding over 10 direct quotes from scripture.

No, But one should not ignore the Torah in favor of anyone's tradition (including mine). But if one scriptural quote stands against your belief, then it still cannot be right.

And as I said upthread, the consensus, the majority view when Yeshua walked the earth was not correct. He was one, and they were many... But their tradition was wrong, and He was not afraid to speak against them. Might does not make right.

50 posted on 04/02/2013 2:39:09 PM PDT by roamer_1 (Globalism is just socialism in a business suit.)
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