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'I do this with my heart,' Pope says before washing inmates' feet
cna ^ | March 28, 2013 | David Uebbing

Posted on 03/28/2013 1:58:30 PM PDT by NYer

Edited on 03/28/2013 7:47:59 PM PDT by Admin Moderator. [history]

Pope Francis kisses the foot of a young person at a detention facility on Holy Thursday 2013. Credit: CTV.

Vatican City, Mar 28, 2013 / 12:20 pm (CNA/EWTN News).- Pope Francis recalled for around 40 young detainees how Jesus washed the disciples’ feet and said that he would willingly do the same for them because he is called to serve.


(Excerpt) Read more at catholicnewsagency.com ...


TOPICS: Catholic; Current Events; Ministry/Outreach
KEYWORDS: catholic; holythursday; inmates; popefrancis
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1 posted on 03/28/2013 1:58:30 PM PDT by NYer
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To: netmilsmom; thefrankbaum; Tax-chick; GregB; saradippity; Berlin_Freeper; Litany; SumProVita; ...

Ping!


2 posted on 03/28/2013 1:58:50 PM PDT by NYer (Beware the man of a single book - St. Thomas Aquinas)
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To: NYer

Next he will sell all the Catholic church’s property and give it to the poor.

Oh, wait. He’s not?


3 posted on 03/28/2013 2:14:21 PM PDT by OrangeHoof (Our economy won't heal until one particular black man is unemployed.)
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To: NYer

This tradition goes way way back. In both Semitic groups Jews and Arabs the foot was and still is considered the filthiest part of the body. For someone to else to wash them was true sign of humility.


4 posted on 03/28/2013 2:15:19 PM PDT by mosesdapoet ("It's a sin to tell a lie", in telling others that , got me my nickname .Ex Chi" mechanic"ret)
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To: mosesdapoet

That picture moved me! Thanks for posting this article.


5 posted on 03/28/2013 2:22:06 PM PDT by jag.drafting
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To: NYer
From another report:

As part of the traditional liturgy of Holy Thursday, at the Mass of the Lord’s Supper, the Pope washed the feet of 12 young detainees: 10 male and 2 female. He thereby disregarded the liturgical rules of the Church, which specify that the celebrant should wash the feet of males in the congregation, in a gesture that recalls Christ’s service to his own 12 apostles. Although many other bishops and priests have included women in the ceremony, Pope Francis became the first Pontiff to do so.

Sorry, but I think this is grossly imprudent.

6 posted on 03/28/2013 2:52:58 PM PDT by Brian Kopp DPM
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To: Dr. Brian Kopp

Agreed.


7 posted on 03/28/2013 2:57:08 PM PDT by pgkdan ( "Those who hammer their guns into plows will plow for those who do not." ~Thomas Jefferson)
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To: NYer

He is a remarkable and pious man.


8 posted on 03/28/2013 3:03:53 PM PDT by trisham (Zen is not easy. It takes effort to attain nothingness. And then what do you have? Bupkis.)
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To: OrangeHoof

To whom should the Church sell it? I mean so that it would be put to better use than the Church makes of it. And they could also ask of you, will you do the same?


9 posted on 03/28/2013 3:04:24 PM PDT by RobbyS
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To: Dr. Brian Kopp
Sorry, but I think this is grossly imprudent.

*************************

Perhaps, but for a man to wash the feet of a woman is exceedingly humble. For a Pope to do so? Humility could not be better expressed.

I may be wrong, but to me this is our Pope's way of demonstrating love and humility.

10 posted on 03/28/2013 3:09:41 PM PDT by trisham (Zen is not easy. It takes effort to attain nothingness. And then what do you have? Bupkis.)
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To: RobbyS

Well said, RobbyS.


11 posted on 03/28/2013 3:10:28 PM PDT by trisham (Zen is not easy. It takes effort to attain nothingness. And then what do you have? Bupkis.)
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To: trisham

There has to be other ways of showing it that do not violate express liturgical guidelines. That sets an unprecedented ... Precedent.

Why should any priest obey rubrics if the Pooe can ignore them. The priest can just say, “I’m just being humble. You know, like the Pope. “


12 posted on 03/28/2013 3:16:56 PM PDT by Brian Kopp DPM
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To: OrangeHoof

I sure hope not. The poor will always be here no matter what is done for them - just as Christ said they would be.


13 posted on 03/28/2013 3:31:58 PM PDT by vladimir998
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To: Dr. Brian Kopp
There has to be other ways of showing it that do not violate express liturgical guidelines. That sets an unprecedented ... Precedent. Why should any priest obey rubrics if the Pooe can ignore them. The priest can just say, “I’m just being humble. You know, like the Pope. “

************************

You may be right. I'm not so sure that this bit of precedent is so wrought with importance. The washing of the feet is simply an expression of love and humility. Imho, it has no further consequence.

14 posted on 03/28/2013 3:34:02 PM PDT by trisham (Zen is not easy. It takes effort to attain nothingness. And then what do you have? Bupkis.)
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To: OrangeHoof; narses
Next he will sell all the Catholic church’s property and give it to the poor.

The Church has been divesting itself of properties on the U.S. East Coast and pouring that money in more evangelical missions around the world. The Church thinks it has a good handle on how to minister to the poor through schools and hospitals, than simply handing out cash to the poor, and it is correct.

15 posted on 03/28/2013 3:37:20 PM PDT by Sirius Lee (All that is required for evil to advance is for government to do "something")
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To: OrangeHoof

VATICAN ARCHIVES
Big Sale
0400-0410
Shop smartly


16 posted on 03/28/2013 3:42:59 PM PDT by onedoug
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To: Dr. Brian Kopp
Sorry, but I think this is grossly imprudent.

I'm not even religious and I understand the point [am even impressed by it]. What are you missing here? Or, if you prefer, what am I missing here?

17 posted on 03/28/2013 4:52:16 PM PDT by BfloGuy (The economy is not a pie, but a bakery.)
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To: Dr. Brian Kopp
Sorry, but I think this is grossly imprudent.
I think there might be washing of the feet of females at our Mass too. :( Here's the final paragraph of our pastor's bulletin entry last week:
First impression [of Pope Francis]? I'm impressed (now if he will only name a few female Cardinals, we'll be on our way) j.k., j.k., (sort of).
And our pastor is a well-liked individual. His words, however, were discouraging to say the least.
18 posted on 03/28/2013 5:12:15 PM PDT by mlizzy (If people spent an hour a week in Eucharistic adoration, abortion would be ended. --Mother Teresa)
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To: BfloGuy

Yeah. I don’t get the objection.

I’m Catholic and I’ve had my feet washed by our pastor on Holy Thursday during the Mass, and I’m female. I can’t imagine why this is a problem. It’s a ritual wash, not a massage, for heaven’s sake.


19 posted on 03/28/2013 5:25:26 PM PDT by married21
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To: Dr. Brian Kopp

When we have a Pope who has taken his name from St. Francis shouldn’t we expect to see profound and occasionally unorthodox demonstrations of poverty, humility and charity?


20 posted on 03/28/2013 5:30:28 PM PDT by Fightin Whitey
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To: OrangeHoof

Go away...this is a great story.....take your anti-Cgristian crap and go away.


21 posted on 03/28/2013 5:32:07 PM PDT by Ann Archy
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To: Dr. Brian Kopp

Christ did this for all 12 of His Apostles....it’s a sign of SERVICE tp yopur fellow man......geesh.


22 posted on 03/28/2013 5:33:47 PM PDT by Ann Archy
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To: mlizzy

RUN from that parish....RUN!! That Priest is NO GOOD!!


23 posted on 03/28/2013 5:35:05 PM PDT by Ann Archy
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To: Ann Archy
RUN from that parish....RUN!! That Priest is NO GOOD!!
Just got back from Mass, and not only did women get their feet washed, but all those in attendance were invited to come up and have their feet washed. (About half reciprocated.) Considering the Palm Sunday "production," I guess I should not have been surprised, but yes, we're going to go to an Easter Mass at a parish nearby that has the Traditional Latin Mass.
24 posted on 03/28/2013 6:16:39 PM PDT by mlizzy (If people spent an hour a week in Eucharistic adoration, abortion would be ended. --Mother Teresa)
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To: Dr. Brian Kopp
Did a little searching and found this:
4. Because the gospel of the mandatum read on Holy Thursday also depicts Jesus as the "Teacher and Lord" who humbly serves his disciples by performing this extraordinary gesture which goes beyond the laws of hospitality, the element of humble service has accentuated the celebration of the foot washing rite in the United States over the last decade or more. In this regard, it has become customary in many places to invite both men and women to be participants in this rite in recognition of the service that should be given by all the faithful to the Church and to the world. Thus, in the United States, a variation in the rite developed in which not only charity is signified but also humble service.

5. While this variation may differ from the rubric of the Sacramentary which mentions only men ("viri selecti"), it may nevertheless be said that the intention to emphasize service along with charity in the celebration of the rite is an understandable way of accentuating the evangelical command of the Lord, "who came to serve and not to be served," that all members of the Church must serve one another in love. http://www.usccb.org/prayer-and-worship/liturgical-resources/triduum/holy-thursday-mandatum.cfm

25 posted on 03/28/2013 6:25:53 PM PDT by mlizzy (If people spent an hour a week in Eucharistic adoration, abortion would be ended. --Mother Teresa)
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To: Dr. Brian Kopp

I really don’t know what to make of this.


26 posted on 03/28/2013 6:25:57 PM PDT by PatriotGirl827 (O Mary, conceived without sin, pray for us who have recourse to thee)
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To: mlizzy

Did you READ the post???? The Priest said “now if there were only FEMALE PRIESTS”!! geesh....it had NOTHING to do with females getting their feet washed.


27 posted on 03/28/2013 6:27:22 PM PDT by Ann Archy
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To: Dr. Brian Kopp

Liturgical guidelines. Like the Pharisees.

When Jesus comes back we can ask him about it.


28 posted on 03/28/2013 6:30:08 PM PDT by Ramius (Personally, I give us one chance in three. More tea anyone?)
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To: married21

It is a problem because, as post 25 points out, the rubrics say “viri”. Yes, the ritual could be changed, but ignoring it is not the same thing as changing it. There is a quote from Seneca that I have on my bulletin board at work, that translates roughly “No one is able to rule unless he is also able to be ruled.” Humility is a good thing, but an important aspect of humility is seeing one’s proper relationship with others. If the Pope appears to believe that he needn’t follow the Church’s liturgical rules, he will have a hard time convincing those who notice this to take him seriously when he tries to get them to follow any dictates laid down by the Church.

That said, he deserves some slack because he is a Jesuit, and the Jesuits have never been known for good liturgy. The old canard “lost as a Jesuit in Holy Week” would seem to apply.


29 posted on 03/28/2013 6:35:31 PM PDT by Hieronymus ( (It is terrible to contemplate how few politicians are hanged. --G.K. Chesterton))
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To: Ann Archy
Did you READ the post????
I wrote the post; I hope I read it too... :)

It all sort of goes together, though. He mentioned at one point in time that he wanted the Washing of Feet to become a Sacrament. In this way, women would be introduced (to possibly becoming priests someday?)...
30 posted on 03/28/2013 6:36:25 PM PDT by mlizzy (If people spent an hour a week in Eucharistic adoration, abortion would be ended. --Mother Teresa)
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To: Ramius

There is a big space between being fixated on liturgical details at the expense of all else and doing whatever you feel like. Say the black, do the red.


31 posted on 03/28/2013 6:37:11 PM PDT by Hieronymus ( (It is terrible to contemplate how few politicians are hanged. --G.K. Chesterton))
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To: Hieronymus

Face it... Really... If Jesus were walking around with us today there is a huge, huge amount of our so-called worshipfulness that he’d likely toss aside.

It’s not about *looking* pious.


32 posted on 03/28/2013 6:52:36 PM PDT by Ramius (Personally, I give us one chance in three. More tea anyone?)
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To: Dr. Brian Kopp

” Sorry, but I think this is grossly imprudent. “

Me too.

But I guess he figures everybody else is breaking all the rules - what the heck ~

Can the Pope change rules like this ? (Obviously he can ignore them.)


33 posted on 03/28/2013 6:57:09 PM PDT by PraiseTheLord (economic civil war ?)
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To: Ann Archy

Holy Thursday is about the institution on the Holy Eucharist and the Holy Priesthood. The all male priesthood. It has always been a liturgical abuse to wash the feet of women at the Holy Thursday liturgy. It’s still a liturgical abuse. Even if a Pope does it, unless or until he changes the rubrics.

Maybe it’s a minor point. And it’s not a hill I’m willing to die on. I expressed my opinion and that’s pretty much all I’m going to say about it.


34 posted on 03/28/2013 7:23:00 PM PDT by Brian Kopp DPM
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To: Ann Archy

1) I am a Christian so, therefore, not anti-Christian.

2) I am trying to illustrate the danger of taking the examples of Scripture literally. I have no problem with the Pontiff washing the feet of others as a symbol of his Servants Heart and to reflect Christ’s teachings but I am not so sure he needs to take it so literally nor for other Christians to be impressed that he takes it so literally.


35 posted on 03/28/2013 8:41:08 PM PDT by OrangeHoof (Our economy won't heal until one particular black man is unemployed.)
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To: OrangeHoof
Yeah, I think they should sell off all those hospitals and schools, and do something for the sick people and children for a change.

Also sell off the artwork, statues and stained glass and stuff, so the rich can have it to themselves, and the poor can worship in school gyms.

Just like the great Apostle said, "Why wasn't this perfumed oil sold for 300 days' wages, and the money given to the poor?"

36 posted on 03/28/2013 8:55:52 PM PDT by Mrs. Don-o ("It isn't what we don't know that gives us trouble, it's what we know that ain't so." - Will Rogers)
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To: mlizzy
parish nearby that has the Traditional Latin Mass.

I spent a good part of the afternoon trying to track down an 85 year old retired priest from out of town who sometimes celebrates the Tridentine Mass here, trying to find out if he might possibly be in town Sunday. Finally got a hold of him; he answered the phone but my heart sank when he said no, he'll be going elsewhere. He paused for just a second, but then said "But another priest is driving from even further away to your parish to celebrate the Latin Mass". Boy, was I overjoyed to hear that! By the way, please pray for that other priest and his safe drive over here and back: he is even older and has been ill recently. Have a Blessed Easter.

37 posted on 03/28/2013 9:11:37 PM PDT by steve86 (Acerbic by Nature, not Nurture™)
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To: Dr. Brian Kopp
Right you are. This mercy and campassion business has its place, but not when it conflicts with the General Instruction of the Roman Missal.

And frankly, he can wash anybody's feet on any other day he wants, women's and men's as well, but this was on one of the most important liturgical days of the year, when he should have followed the rubrics and presided at the service at the St. John Lateran Basilica, which is his duty as Bishop of Rome.

It's the Triduum, for Christ's sake.

As our spiritual forefathers said, and with indignation, mind you: "There are six days in which men ought to work: in them therefore come and be healed, and not on the sabbath day."

(Forgive me, Brian, my friend.)

38 posted on 03/28/2013 9:16:06 PM PDT by Mrs. Don-o ("It isn't what we don't know that gives us trouble, it's what we know that ain't so." - Will Rogers)
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To: Dr. Brian Kopp

Out here in the high west that foot washin’ stuff seems pretty exotic, whatever the gender of the washer/washee. I just yanked off my dusty cowboy boots and found a small dead scorpion mashed on the heel.


39 posted on 03/28/2013 9:19:15 PM PDT by steve86 (Acerbic by Nature, not Nurture™)
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To: Dr. Brian Kopp
Isn't the Bishop of Rome the highest liturgical authority in the Diocese of Rome? Isn't the Pope the highest liturgical authority in the Church? Aren't the people who wrote the GIRM his advisors and ecclesiastical subjects?

Just trying to get oriented, here.

40 posted on 03/28/2013 9:19:54 PM PDT by Mrs. Don-o ("It isn't what we don't know that gives us trouble, it's what we know that ain't so." - Will Rogers)
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To: Mrs. Don-o

Yes, yes and yes. The Apostolic See is the seat that controls the liturgy. Don’t see how this can be argued much.


41 posted on 03/28/2013 9:34:21 PM PDT by jwalsh07
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To: Ann Archy; mlizzy
Ann Archy, I read the post at #18 and it did not say "priests".

Calm down. It said "cardinals".

True, women cannot be ordained to Holy Orders --- deacon, priest, or bishop --- because of the nuptial meaning of priesthood. (Like Matrimony, Holy Orders is a Sacrament in which the sexually embodied person is part of the Sacramental Sign.)

However, the role of "Cardinal" is not a Sacrament and is a historically malleable administrative title, not dating back to the New Testament or the teaching of the Apostles, but adopted later for the sensible purpose of handling papal succession with a modicum of efficiency.

Any pope would have the authority to change the way his successor is picked. He could say "Let's pick one by casting lots." Or "Let's have an electronic election on the Internet with all the clergy of the Diocese of Rome as electors." He could even say, "As usual, all the papabili have to be Catholic men (this is actually non-negotiable) but the electors will all be women."

Not saying he would, not in a million years, but I'm saying he "could".

Bizarre but true.

Such is papal authority. Such is Catholicism.

42 posted on 03/28/2013 9:38:13 PM PDT by Mrs. Don-o ("It isn't what we don't know that gives us trouble, it's what we know that ain't so." - Will Rogers)
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To: Mrs. Don-o
From Fr. Z.'s thread on this subject, Of Holy Thursday and the foot-washing rite: problems – solutions

Fr AJ says:

But Father, but Father, what if our Holy Father Francis washes women’s feet in his Holy Thursday prison Mass – does that change the law?


43 posted on 03/28/2013 9:39:49 PM PDT by Brian Kopp DPM
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To: jwalsh07; Mrs. Don-o
According to Fr. Z.:

"The mere fact that a Pope does something doesn't mean that is is, by that act, changing the law. The law has to be duly written and promulgated in the proper way."

44 posted on 03/28/2013 9:43:32 PM PDT by Brian Kopp DPM
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To: Dr. Brian Kopp

I agree with that, but like a newborn, a new law must crawl before it walks. Evidently this was a crawl but I have no idea if it will walk.


45 posted on 03/28/2013 9:45:59 PM PDT by jwalsh07
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To: Dr. Brian Kopp
I love Fr. Z, I really, really do. He's smarter than I am, I'll grant you that in a heartbeat, and entitled to his opinion, as all of us horse's arses are.

But he is not, for well or for ill, the competent ecclesiastical authority in the Diocese of Rome.

W5

46 posted on 03/28/2013 9:54:24 PM PDT by Mrs. Don-o ("It isn't what we don't know that gives us trouble, it's what we know that ain't so." - Will Rogers)
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To: steve86
Boy, was I overjoyed to hear that!
Excellent, that's awesome! And, yes, I'll pray for your older priest. I guess we're really spoiled here. We've got a Sunday TLM not more than 7 minutes away door-to-door, and two others (daily too!) about 35-40 minutes away.
47 posted on 03/28/2013 10:16:27 PM PDT by mlizzy (If people spent an hour a week in Eucharistic adoration, abortion would be ended. --Mother Teresa)
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To: mlizzy

Yeah, we haven’t had an Easter or Christmas Mass in many years so it’s quite the notable event.

Immediately after the last Christmas Mass (2005), our two girls (grandkids) were baptized.

The same priest I talked to on the phone earlier today would have conducted the sacrament a couple weeks previous to that, but he was getting absent minded and wasn’t prepared.

Amazingly, his memory seems better now.

Now the girls are almost old enough to be Confirmed.


48 posted on 03/28/2013 10:48:32 PM PDT by steve86 (Acerbic by Nature, not Nurture™)
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To: NYer
'I do this with my heart,' Pope says before washing inmates' feet
The Birthday of the Chalice (Maundy Thursday)
Young Inmates Eager for Holy Thursday Mass With Francis
The Fourth Cup
The Last Supper and the Forgiveness of Sins
Benedict XVI’s sermon for Holy Thursday Mass of the Last Supper (Catholic/Orthodox Caucus)<
The Mandatum of Love (meaning of Maundy Thursday/Holy Thursday) [Catholic/Orthodox Caucus]
The Significance of Holy Thursday
Holy Thursday Evening Mass of the Lord's Supper
A Christian Passover Seder for Holy Thursday (or tonight)

The significance of Holy Thursday (institution of the Eucharist and priesthood)
Holy Thursday: The God who Washes Feet
Holy Thursday and the washing of the feet [Mandatum]
The Hunt for the Fourth Cup
Great and Holy Thursday [Catholic/Orthodox Caucus]
Maundy Thursday, Holy Thursday, Shire Thursday
Holy Thursday
Maundy Thursday
HOMILIES PREACHED BY FATHER ALTIER ON HOLY THURSDAY IN 2004 AND 2005.
Paths to Rome: Washing of Feet on Holy Thursday

Washing of the Feet on Holy Thursday And More on Days of Abstinence
Reflections for Maundy Thursday: The Carrying of the Cross
Past Not Over (Why Passover is the most widely observed holiday.)
The Chrism Mass
Celebration of a Family Seder Meal
Washing the Feet of Men Only on Holy Thursday
ALTAR OF REPOSE - Catholic Liturgy for Maundy Thursday
Catholic Caucus: Maundy (Holy) Thursday
The Fourth Cup: The Sacrament of the Eucharist [Holy Thursday] [Passover]
Holy Thursday - When the moon is full

49 posted on 03/28/2013 11:09:58 PM PDT by Salvation (†"With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26†)
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To: NYer; Mrs. Don-o; Dr. Brian Kopp; steve86
Jimmy Akin covers the same topic here.
50 posted on 03/28/2013 11:12:58 PM PDT by mlizzy (If people spent an hour a week in Eucharistic adoration, abortion would be ended. --Mother Teresa)
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