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I bang my head against the wall when evangelicals turn Jesus into Cheesus {Anglican barf-alert}
The Guardian ^ | 22 Mar 2013 | Giles Fraser

Posted on 03/28/2013 10:48:11 PM PDT by Cronos

..if you say a word enough, over and over again, it loses its meaning. It even begins to sound a little different. Jesus morphs into Cheesus – the es getting steadily elongated. Those who talk about Cheesus do so with a creepy sort of chummyiness. This is what evangelicals call "a personal relationship", by which they mean that Cheesus has become their boyfriend or best mate.

..Once again, the evangelicals are in the ascendency in the Church of England. Rowan Williams never spoke of Cheesus. He had way too much gravitas. Which was why so many non-Christians respected him. ..

Which is why, for the worst sort of Cheesus-loving evangelicals, the cross of Good Friday is actually celebrated as a moment of triumph. This is theologically illiterate.

..The disciples run away, unable to cope with the impossible demands placed upon them. The hero they gave up everything to follow is exposed to public ridicule and handed over to Roman execution. And the broken man on the cross begins to fear that God is no longer present

..But the problem with PR Christianity is that it can easily transform Jesus into Cheesus, which is a form of Jesus-lite, a romantic infatuation, a Mills & Boon theology that makes you feel all warm inside. The Gospels, however, tell an altogether more disturbing story. And there is no PR agency in the world that could sell the message of a man who told his followers that they too would have to go the way of the cross.

(Excerpt) Read more at guardian.co.uk ...


TOPICS: General Discusssion; Humor; Mainline Protestant
KEYWORDS: evangelicals
To my Evangelical friends -- being criticized by a dweeb from the CoE is an honor -- an idiot who says Rowan Williams never spoke of Cheesus. He had way too much gravitas. Which was why so many non-Christians respected him. is not to be taken seriously

.

Take this as a humor article...

1 posted on 03/28/2013 10:48:11 PM PDT by Cronos
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To: Cronos
To my Evangelical friends -- being criticized by a dweeb from the CoE is an honor -- an idiot who says Rowan Williams never spoke of Cheesus. He had way too much gravitas. Which was why so many non-Christians respected him. is not to be taken seriously . Take this as a humor article...

That's not hard to do, thanks. When I read:

And the broken man on the cross begins to fear that God is no longer present

It was a dead give away the guy is a "dweeb" and I seriously doubt he's even a Christian.

2 posted on 03/28/2013 11:55:21 PM PDT by boatbums (God is ready to assume full responsibility for the life wholly yielded to Him.)
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To: Cronos
Rowan Williams was a Druid heretic, which is why non-Christians "respected" him.

the cross of Good Friday is actually celebrated as a moment of triumph. This is theologically illiterate. ... And the broken man on the cross begins to fear that God is no longer present

He shows his own egregious lack of knowledge with that. Too bad the COE doesn't still have the likes of Bullinger to instruct them.

3 posted on 03/29/2013 12:01:55 AM PDT by ApplegateRanch (Love me, love my guns!©)
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To: Cronos
Which is why, for the worst sort of Cheesus-loving evangelicals, the cross of Good Friday is actually celebrated as a moment of triumph. This is theologically illiterate.

No, because it is a triumph for us sinners. Our sins are nailed to that cross and we bear them no more. The curtain separating us from the Holy of Holies is rent in two from top to bottom making a personal relationship with God possible. It is a HIGH TRIUMPH for those needing sins to be forgiven. And I am grateful, profoundly, eternally grateful.

This article was written by someone who may know a lot about God, but has never met Him. I would like to introduce my Savior, Jesus the Christ.

4 posted on 03/29/2013 1:20:03 AM PDT by Jemian
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To: Cronos

Cheesus lovers were the reason I left the church. Nothing is more offputting than a “person of faith” who has never been tested beyond sexual or food temptations.


5 posted on 03/29/2013 4:34:13 AM PDT by CalvaryJohn (What is keeping that damned asteroid?)
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To: Cronos
"Take this as a humor article..."I'm glad I read that 'cause I was arcing up reading the article.Ya got me! < grin >
6 posted on 03/29/2013 4:41:21 AM PDT by mitch5501 ("make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things ye shall never fall")
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To: mitch5501; boatbums
mitch -- what I meant was, I have serious differences with evangelicals, but this article is utterly silly. This guy seems the perfect reason why the Church of England is for all purposes dead.

Read it as silliness, where the author goes on to say "And the broken man on the cross begins to fear that God is no longer present"

7 posted on 03/29/2013 5:28:35 AM PDT by Cronos (Latin presbuteros->Late Latin presbyter->Old English pruos->Middle Engl prest->priest)
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To: Cronos
God the Father HAD to abandon his Son, because His Son became Sin for all of us. Yet, Jesus' last words on the Cross resonate through the ages: "IT...IS...FINISHED!"

That's why we believers "celebrate" Good Friday, because Jesus willingly took what we all deserved, and rose again after 3 days to defeat Death and Sin for all Time.

8 posted on 03/29/2013 5:48:08 AM PDT by MuttTheHoople (Pray for Joe Biden- Proverbs 29:9)
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To: Cronos
Oh it's stupid way before that...

"Those who talk about Cheesus do so with a creepy sort of chummyiness. This is what evangelicals call "a personal relationship", by which they mean that Cheesus has become their boyfriend or best mate."

9 posted on 03/29/2013 5:54:43 AM PDT by mitch5501 ("make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things ye shall never fall")
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To: Cronos
There is much truth in this article.

Cheesus has become their boyfriend

Yup. We hear it in many of the modern "praise songs." I was scanning the radio stations the other day and stumbled across a pop tune and left it there. It slowly dawned on me that the song just might be inteneded to have some sort of religious message, but never could be sure until the station ID's itself as "Christian" It was pure emotional mush.

Jesus is my boyfriend music.

When breaking up with boyfriends many Evangelical girls do the "Jesus breakup." They tell the poor boy "I just want to spend more time with Jesus." or is it Cheesus?

10 posted on 03/29/2013 6:17:22 AM PDT by Gamecock (He is Risen!)
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To: Cronos

It seems we’ve had similar conversations in the past, haven’t we?
That’s why it’s interesting that I find myself actually agreeing with you for a change... at least on your latest point.

That being the statement about Yeshua HaMesshiach (I try to call Him by his real Name, rather that the Greaco-Romanized version from which we continue down the road of linguistic corruption to “Cheesus”) “fearing” that his Father had abandoned him.

Fear and Love are mutually exclusive. I read somewhere that perfect Love (I Cor. 13 variety I assume) displaces or “casts out” fear. How then could Agape’ Love incarnate (”God is Love” - 1 Jn Ch.4) entertain fear?

Don’t think so.

In both Matthew and Mark’s Gospel we have an unusual transliteration (rather than translation) of what the Master actually cried out from the Cross:

Mark 15:34: “...And at the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, ‘Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani?’ which is, being interpreted, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?”

Now correct me if I’m wrong, as I often am, and I’m sure you will being the astute Theologian you seem to be - but I believe that those words were spoken and transliterated from the original HEBREW.

Mel Gibson make a cracker jack movie about the “Passion of Christ” but IMHO he got a few things wrong - anachronisms if you will. One of them was when he had the Actor make that cry of assumed “despair” in Aramaic, which was apparently the common language of First Century Pallistinium, District of Rome, in the First Century CE.
Yeshua and his Followers probably used it in casual conversation most of the time, although I’m sure that He and probably many of them were fluent in several languages.

This might be considered to be somewhat of a crass assumption, but I believe that Yeshua cried that in Hebrew and two Apostles were careful to to point out that he used Hebrew in that agonal moment for a reason.

Hebrew was and still is to some extent the “Priestly” language, obligatory for worship and Temple services. It was and is the language of the Torah and Tenach (let’s not get into THAT again, shall we?).

It’s my understanding that if a Jew is dying, he is to incant the SH’MA if possible; but if he or she cannot recite the whole thing, it will suffice if they speak the first line; “Hear O Israel; the Lord thy G_d is G-d; The Lord thy G_d is One!” (or something like that). Apparently just “Sh’ma!” will do in a pinch.

So if Yeshua wasn’t invoking the Sh’ma Yisrael, what prayer or portion of the Tenach was he invoking?

As he struggled for every dying breath, he wasn’t about to go reciting very much - but He did manage to leave us a clue... in Hebrew.

Why, check Psalm 22 for instance. What does the first verse say? How would you pronounce it in Hebrew?

What sort of terrible torment do the following verses seem to describe in rather graphic detail?

What’s this in V.16?; “...They pierced my hands and feet”.

But wait; This was written by King David, one of Yeshua’s Ancestors, well before the time of the Roman Empire’s dominance in the region, wasn’t it? Did they commonly crucify people back in David’s time? I thought that was a Roman innovation.

So if the King of Kings is invoking Psalm 22, as I rather suspect that he may have been, it might behoove us then to read the whole thing and find out how it all works out in the end.

Our Lord giving up in despair? I don’t think so.

“Silliness” indeed.


11 posted on 03/29/2013 6:31:23 AM PDT by George Varnum (Liberty, like our Forefather's Flintlock Musket, must be kept clean, oiled, and READY!)
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To: MuttTheHoople

Yet when Jesus at last said his very last words, God the Father was there to recieved the soul of his son. So the Father was there.

Jesus LAST words are: “Father, into your hands, I commend my spirit!”

“It is finished” is the next to the last words.


12 posted on 03/29/2013 6:49:51 AM PDT by Biggirl ("Jesus talked to us as individuals"-Jim Vicevich/Thanks JimV!)
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To: Cronos

DUrs show their ignorance by pronouncing Jebus whereas TV hack preachers like JAY-SUS!


13 posted on 03/29/2013 7:12:34 AM PDT by Ruy Dias de Bivar (The murals in OKC are destroyed.)
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To: Gamecock

This is true. There are a few truths in this article and evangelicals such as myself would do well to remember them.

As for forms of worship, I call them “prom date” songs. As in, “I just want to jump in the back set of my car and fog up the windows with God.”

It’s seeker-centered, it has little to do with praise and much more to do with the worshiper’s experience. In short, it’s the religious Left writ large. Church is no longer about God, it’s about what we get. The more we GET, the more relevant the experience is supposed to be. Never mind that worship was never intended to be about us.

“Cheesus”, indeed.


14 posted on 03/29/2013 7:17:47 AM PDT by Colonel_Flagg (Blather. Reince. Repeat.)
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To: Colonel_Flagg
“prom date” songs

Prom date songs. Gonna remember that one.

I'm gonna get flammed for this one, but it won't be the first time.

It's no different than this cherished Evangelical "hymn:"

And He tells me I am His own;
And the joy we share as we tarry there,
None other has ever known.

Really?!? In the 2000 years since Jesus saved his own, no one has known the same joy?
15 posted on 03/29/2013 7:26:50 AM PDT by Gamecock ("Ultimately, Jesus died to save us from the wrath of God." —R.C. Sproul)
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To: Gamecock

A little context is good when describing “In the Garden”, which you cite.

The hymn is based on John 20, and C. Austin Miles, who wrote it, notes that it is about Mary being the first person to see the risen Christ.

I should think that since no one else on Earth was yet aware that Christ had risen from the dead, “none other” would ever know that joy until it was spread. Her joy was unique.

Not a ‘prom date’ song or anything like it.


16 posted on 03/29/2013 7:33:27 AM PDT by Colonel_Flagg (Blather. Reince. Repeat.)
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To: Colonel_Flagg

The issue is no one sings it that way. It is internalized by most.


17 posted on 03/29/2013 7:56:38 AM PDT by Gamecock ("Ultimately, Jesus died to save us from the wrath of God." —R.C. Sproul)
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To: Gamecock

That’s why understanding your form of worship is important. :)


18 posted on 03/29/2013 7:57:36 AM PDT by Colonel_Flagg (Blather. Reince. Repeat.)
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To: Colonel_Flagg

Spot on.

Many think it is all about them.


19 posted on 03/29/2013 8:12:29 AM PDT by Gamecock ("Ultimately, Jesus died to save us from the wrath of God." —R.C. Sproul)
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To: Cronos

I don’t particularly care for this sort of praise music myself, but I’m not going to disparage it or anyone who benefits from it. We all ultimately respond and relate to our Creator in our own way. This is clearly compelling for many. Who am I to question? So long as the truth of Christ risen and salvation through Him is being communicated, it’s a positive thing. Just not to my taste and apparently not for many others. Style points won’t count for much, though, when you get right down to it. To believe otherwise is to fall prey to a little too much worldliness.


20 posted on 03/29/2013 8:25:23 AM PDT by RegulatorCountry
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To: Cronos

A God who intensely loves and longs for and desires heart-to-heart intimacy with His creatures is very difficult to comprehend. Maybe we don’t love ourselves enough to believe He could love us so much. And He certainly couldn’t love and embrace those low-rent people who aren’t as good as I am ... He wouldn’t be that tacky!


21 posted on 03/29/2013 11:07:43 AM PDT by Tax-chick (Stand in the corner and scream with me!)
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To: Tax-chick
A God who intensely loves and longs for and desires heart-to-heart intimacy with His creatures is very difficult to comprehend. Maybe we don’t love ourselves enough to believe He could love us so much. And He certainly couldn’t love and embrace those low-rent people who aren’t as good as I am ... He wouldn’t be that tacky!

Indeed! I'm of the impression that our God is no snob.

He hath shewed thee, O man, what is good; and what doth the Lord require of thee, but to do justly, and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with thy God? (Micah 6:8)

22 posted on 03/29/2013 3:36:19 PM PDT by boatbums (God is ready to assume full responsibility for the life wholly yielded to Him.)
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To: boatbums

Very appropriate verse!


23 posted on 03/30/2013 5:27:06 AM PDT by Tax-chick (Stand in the corner and scream with me!)
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To: boatbums
And the broken man on the cross begins to fear that God is no longer present

It was a dead give away the guy is a "dweeb" and I seriously doubt he's even a Christian.

These words of Christ on the cross have a number of interpretations. But that Christ, if only momentarily, felt as if God was no longer with him is certainly one of the more obvious ones.

And at the ninth hour, Jesus shouted in a loud voice, "Eloi Eloi lama sabachthani?" which is translated, "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?"

24 posted on 03/30/2013 6:30:43 AM PDT by Sherman Logan
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To: Ruy Dias de Bivar
whereas TV hack preachers like JAY-SUS

worse yet, are the ones who make it a three syllable word: je-HEE-sus

25 posted on 03/30/2013 6:36:45 AM PDT by TheRightGuy (I want MY BAILOUT ... a billion or two should do!)
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To: Sherman Logan
These words of Christ on the cross have a number of interpretations. But that Christ, if only momentarily, felt as if God was no longer with him is certainly one of the more obvious ones.

How does that view square with the belief that Jesus was/is Almighty God incarnate? At no time did he ever cease being the Son of God - even momentarily. That's why I reject the idea that Christ could "feel" as if God was no longer with him. Someone posted further up about the significance of Jesus quoting the first part of Psalm 22. You may want to read that.

26 posted on 03/30/2013 4:30:30 PM PDT by boatbums (God is ready to assume full responsibility for the life wholly yielded to Him.)
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