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Homosexuality: Does the New Testament Condemn It?
Canterbury Tales ^ | April 3, 2013 | Taylor Marshall

Posted on 04/04/2013 3:02:24 PM PDT by NYer

St Paul speaks about homosexuality three times
Keep reading to learn what he says...

One afternoon while ministering to the homeless in downtown Fort Worth, Texas, I fell into a conversation with a stranger about religion, which eventually led to the subject of Christ. Without hesitating, he came right out and said, “I’m a gay Christian.” After he admitted to being an active homosexual, he added, “I have studied the whole Bible and nowhere does it teach that homosexuality is a sin.” 

I countered his claim, but the conversation became understandably awkward.

Since then, I’ve met others who believe that the Bible does not condemn homosexual acts as sinful. In fact, the Apostle Paul condemned homosexuality on three separate occasions. In his epistle to the Romans, Paul describes the origin of idolatry and associates it with the origins of homosexuality, among both men and women:

Their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural, and the men likewise gave up natural relations with women and were consumed with passion for one another, men committing shameless acts with men and receiving in their own persons the due penalty for their error. And since they did not see fit to acknowledge God, God gave them up to a base mind and to improper conduct (Rom 1:26-28).

Paul identifies homosexuality with the following terms: unnatural, shameless acts, error, base mind, and improper conduct.

Saint Paul also explains that practicing homosexuals “will not inherit the kingdom of God”:

Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither the immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminates {malakoi}, nor homosexuals {arsenokoitai}, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor robbers will inherit the kingdom of God (1 Cor 6:9-10).

The words translated as “effeminates” and “homosexuals” are often omitted in modern Bible translations and replaced with the single word “perverts,” even though two separate words appear in the Greek text of Paul’s First Epistle to the Corinthians.  One might understand why the man I met in Fort Worth believed that “homosexuality was not condemned in the Bible,” since many English versions actually hide the term under pretence of translation. The two Greek words used by Paul in this passage are malakoi and arsenokoitai. The word malakoi is sometimes translated effeminates and the word arsenokoitai is translated as homosexuals.

The Greek word arsenokoitai undoubtedly refers to male homosexuality. The very etymology of the word arsenokoitai reveals this. It is a compound of two words: arsen meaning “male” and koitai meaning “bed,” and specifically “marriage bed.”  Thus, arsenokoitai literally means “men in bed together.”

Lest there be any doubt about the identity of arsenokoitai with homosexuals, let us turn to the Greek Septuagint version of Leviticus 20:13, which reads, “If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall be put to death.”  While the Old Testament death penalty for homosexuality was abolished by Christ, this passage undoubtedly refers to homosexual practice and confirms that Paul’s use of the Greek word arsenokoitai prohibits the same behavior described in Leviticus 20:13—men having relations with men. 

The Greek Septuagint renders this passage as: kai hos an koimethe meta arsenos koiten gynaikos. We find within it the same two Greek words that compose the word arsenokoitai, which was used by Paul to condemn homosexuality. I have underlined the words above to make the connection more obvious. Here we see arsonos and koiten together describing homosexual activity in the clear language of Leviticus 20:13. Clearly, Paul’s use of the similar compound word arsenokoitai refers to homosexual men—men in bed with other men.

The word used by Saint Paul, malakoi, literally means “soft ones.” There are three interpretations as to what this term might mean. First, it may refer to those who are overly obsessed with luxury, an attribute that would have been identified with effeminacy in antiquity. 

The second interpretation is one given by the Jewish historian Josephus. Josephus identifies soft ones with men who dressed as women and sometimes even mutilated or removed their male genitals.  These men may have been the passive partners in homosexual acts in the context of pagan ritual festivals, i.e. cultic male prostitutes. However, we must grant that the term malakoi is not explicitly used in this regard. The third possible solution is the one given by Saint Thomas Aquinas, which states that the “sin of softness” is the sin of masturbation.  Incidentally, the Catholic Church considers masturbation as sin against chastity:

"Masturbation is an intrinsically and gravely disordered action. The deliberate use of the sexual faculty, for whatever reason, outside of marriage is essentially contrary to its purpose."

If Paul intended to refer to masturbation in his condemnation of “soft ones,” then he stands in agreement with the Church’s condemnation of masturbation. Whatever Paul meant by soft ones, it seems to have pertained to sexual sin, since in Paul’s list it falls between adultery and homosexuality.

The third passage in which Paul condemns homosexuality is found in his First Epistle to Timothy where he identifies homosexuals as lawless and disobedient:

"The law is not made for the just man, but for the unjust and disobedient, for the ungodly and sinners, for the wicked and defiled, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, fornicators, homosexuals {arsenokoitai}, kidnappers, liars, perjurers, and whatever else is contrary to sound doctrine" (1 Tim 1:9-10).

Once again, the original Greek word used here by Paul for homosexuals is the same word that he used before: arsenokoitai. Clearly, Saint Paul was opposed to homosexual acts. The Catechism of the Catholic Church conforms to Paul in this regard:

"Basing itself on Sacred Scripture, which presents homosexual acts as acts of grave depravity, tradition has always declared that “homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered.” They are contrary to the natural law. They close the sexual act to the gift of life. They do not proceed from a genuine affective and sexual complementarity. Under no circumstances can they be approved."

Nevertheless, the Catechism of the Catholic Church recognizes that,

"The number of men and women who have deep-seated homosexual tendencies is not negligible. This inclination, which is objectively disordered, constitutes for most of them a trial. They must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity."

Persons with homosexual inclinations are called to chastity - not matrimony. By the virtues of self-mastery that teach them inner freedom, at times by the support of disinterested friendship, by prayer and sacramental grace, they can and should gradually and resolutely approach Christian perfection.


TOPICS: Apologetics; Catholic; Moral Issues; Theology
KEYWORDS: bible; glbt; homosexualagenda; homosexuality; scripture
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1 posted on 04/04/2013 3:02:24 PM PDT by NYer
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To: netmilsmom; thefrankbaum; Tax-chick; GregB; saradippity; Berlin_Freeper; Litany; SumProVita; ...

Some very interesting comments at the above link.


2 posted on 04/04/2013 3:02:57 PM PDT by NYer (Beware the man of a single book - St. Thomas Aquinas)
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To: NYer

Peter and the entire leadership of church also spoke against it in Acts 15.


3 posted on 04/04/2013 3:09:10 PM PDT by Raycpa
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To: NYer
"For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the Law until all is accomplished."

Matthew 5:18

____________________________________________________________________

"Do not have sexual relations with a man as one does with a woman: that is detestable."

Leviticus 18:22

________________________________________________________________

"The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of people, who suppress the truth by their wickedness, since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse. For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like a mortal human being and birds and animals and reptiles. Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another. They exchanged the truth about God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised. Amen. Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural sexual relations for unnatural ones. In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed shameful acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their error."

Romans 1: 18-27

4 posted on 04/04/2013 3:09:49 PM PDT by SkyPilot
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To: NYer

It is clear.

If the Republican party want to rule the Bedroom then Obamas will rule the country.

Sorry kids. They vote, we don’t.

Until you all figure out how to make the minority the majority, you can bay at the moon all you want.


5 posted on 04/04/2013 3:11:37 PM PDT by hadaclueonce (Forget Mexico. Put the border fence around California.)
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To: NYer

“I’m a gay Christian.” After he admitted to being an active homosexual, he added, “I have studied the whole Bible and nowhere does it teach that homosexuality is a sin.”

I think calling yourself one thing and hoping in vain it gets you out of the mess you created is delusional and self defeating. As is skipping over certain passages for self serving reasons of convenience.

I guess if you say it doesn’t say it and with enough verbosity, you’ll feel victorious if enough people don’t challenge you on such a stoopit statement.


6 posted on 04/04/2013 3:13:38 PM PDT by Vendome (Don't take life so seriously, you won't live through it anyway)
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To: Vendome

serious, if doing another guy is not a sin, then there really is not such a thing as a sexual sin.

If there’s no such thing as a sexual sin, than should we worry about pride, envy, and deceitfulness as well?


7 posted on 04/04/2013 3:29:18 PM PDT by MNDude (I survived the sequester!)
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To: NYer

I’d say the lessons of Sodom and Gomorrah are pretty clear on this.

I am a sinner, as we all are. I approach other sinners with compassion and respect, whatever their sins are, unless they are actively harming others (rapists, murderers etc).

If people practice homosexuality in private, I pray for them. I pray they repent, and I pray they ask for forgiveness and strength as well as guidance. I do not accept what they do as ‘moral’ because it isn’t, just like drug addiction.
Now, when they start trying to teach it to kids across the country, and flaunt it in the streets, then I have a problem.


8 posted on 04/04/2013 3:31:28 PM PDT by Viennacon
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To: NYer

Yes. And also fornication (sex before marriage) just as vocally.


9 posted on 04/04/2013 3:45:15 PM PDT by James C. Bennett (An Australian.)
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To: NYer
Some very interesting comments at the above link.

Mostly sound and supportive, with one or two detractors. I wonder how many sodomites will pile on once the trolls see the link on this site?

10 posted on 04/04/2013 3:48:22 PM PDT by fwdude ( You cannot compromise with that which you must defeat.)
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To: Vendome

He can call himself anything he wants, that does not make it so. He can describe himself as a 1985 Ford Tarsus. But that does not make him one.


11 posted on 04/04/2013 3:49:01 PM PDT by RetiredArmy (1 Cor 15: 50-54 & 1 Thess 4: 13-17. That about covers it.)
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To: NYer

Yes.


12 posted on 04/04/2013 3:49:19 PM PDT by ilovesarah2012
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To: hadaclueonce

Who said anything about ruling the bedroom? Nobody I know has ever said that, except some leftist I knew years ago who actually thought that was a conservative belief.

However, Christians and republicans are not the same thing, and while republicans may wish to rule the country, Christians are first and foremost interested in pleasing God, and in sharing his Gospel with whoever will listen. And of course in obedience to God, we cry out like the prophets of old against sin and evil, both cultural as well as individual, because we all have an interest in a culture that is not self-destructive.

So if that doesn’t win us any points with certain demographics, too bad. It is God who sets up kings and God who takes them down. We do what we can, and some of us have sworn our very lives in defense of this wonderful country God had given us.

But we are not leftists. We do not buy the premise that the end, no matter how praiseworthy, can justify evil means. And backing away from the God-ordained institution of marriage to gain a temporary electoral advantage would be to forsake the only real advantage we have, the blessing of God.

But if you must live solely in the realm of the pragmatic, I submit to you we cannot win the long-term war against either communism or Islam if we surrender marriage to the deconstructive efforts of the left, because it is precisely marriage and family that form the last true bastion against statist absolutism.

Where marriage dies, as it is doing in the Netherlands via gay marriage, then family dies, the state grows stronger, because it is finally able to assert itself as the super-parent without significant competition. This is why Marxist regimes have always attacked the family as an enemy of the state. They are. And that is why the American left is using homosexuality; it is to clear the family out of their own path to power.


13 posted on 04/04/2013 3:50:37 PM PDT by Springfield Reformer (Winston Churchill: No Peace Till Victory!)
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To: NYer

Gay Christians go to that Universalist Church. The one that preaches the “anything goes” sermons.


14 posted on 04/04/2013 3:50:47 PM PDT by 3catsanadog (I love my country; I don't like its government)
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To: hadaclueonce
I don’t give a hoot what kinds of paraphilia consenting adults do in their bedrooms; once they move their bedroom into the public realm and proclaim their actions sane is when the problems occur.
15 posted on 04/04/2013 3:57:46 PM PDT by rollo tomasi (Working hard to pay for deadbeats and corrupt politicians.)
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To: Viennacon; All
1 Corinthians 6:9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived (emphasis added): neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, 10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

The "Be not deceived" hilited above concerning things like same-sex sexual relationships sums it up, imo, for so-called gay "Christians."

16 posted on 04/04/2013 3:58:59 PM PDT by Amendment10
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To: NYer

To meet them with compassion and sensitivity, if they repent, is fine otherwise-”Come out from among them”-St. Paul


17 posted on 04/04/2013 4:00:26 PM PDT by AEMILIUS PAULUS (It is a shame that when these people give a riot)
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To: Siobhan; Canticle_of_Deborah; NYer; Salvation; american colleen; Desdemona; StAthanasiustheGreat; ..

Catholic ping!


18 posted on 04/04/2013 4:01:55 PM PDT by Pyro7480 (Viva Cristo Rey!)
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To: Viennacon
I’d say the lessons of Sodom and Gomorrah are pretty clear on this.

No, Sodom and Gomorrah were destroyed b/c the people were very inhospitable to outsiders; a grave faux pas back in those days.

Gotta get with the 21st C. revisionism.

19 posted on 04/04/2013 4:06:12 PM PDT by Future Snake Eater (CrossFit.com)
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To: hadaclueonce

Right now I am more worried about who rules the Church.


20 posted on 04/04/2013 4:08:34 PM PDT by RobbyS
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To: NYer
An unnatural act can never be the basis of holy matrimony.


21 posted on 04/04/2013 4:09:12 PM PDT by Travis McGee (www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com)
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To: hadaclueonce
I don't know what point you were trying to make in Post #5. It does not matter what the majority 'wants' as their flavor of the month.

Let God be true, and every man a liar.

The whims of the world's majority does not matter as long as we understand that God is in charge and we serve Him with all our hearts.

22 posted on 04/04/2013 4:14:51 PM PDT by El Cid (Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house...)
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To: hadaclueonce
If the Republican party want to rule the Bedroom then Obamas will rule the country.

ROTFLMAO!!!!

Where you been? The depraved, diseased, and disorder came out of the closet long ago -they are not in their bedrooms -they are in the streets -they want you to subsidize their sickness pay for the treatment of their diseases fund their sex change operations teach people that sickness is normal and self destructive choices are healthy. They want you to subsidize their sex partners and they want to donate their blood to YOU by force.

They left their bedrooms long ago and they are now imposed upon our schools working on imposing themselves upon churches and knocking on your front door with big daddy government backing them.

Get a clue.

23 posted on 04/04/2013 4:24:24 PM PDT by DBeers (†)
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To: NYer

***..arsenokoitai is translated as homosexuals.****

arse-nokoitai.

There is a joke here but I’m not going to touch it!


24 posted on 04/04/2013 4:30:54 PM PDT by Ruy Dias de Bivar (The murals in OKC are destroyed.)
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To: Viennacon

If people practice homosexuality in private, I pray for them. I pray they repent, and I pray they ask for forgiveness and strength as well as guidance. I do not accept what they do as ‘moral’ because it isn’t, just like drug addiction.
Now, when they start trying to teach it to kids across the country, and flaunt it in the streets, then I have a problem.

***
You have outlined my opinions on this matter, as well.


25 posted on 04/04/2013 4:37:25 PM PDT by Bigg Red (Restore us, O God of hosts; let your face shine, that we may be saved! -Ps80)
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To: NYer

yes, and instead of asking dumb questions, just read it.


26 posted on 04/04/2013 5:00:56 PM PDT by Secret Agent Man (I can neither confirm or deny that; even if I could, I couldn't - it's classified.)
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To: NYer

Excellent analysis....


27 posted on 04/04/2013 5:10:24 PM PDT by DouglasKC
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To: El Cid

I am just saying that if you want the Rats to run the ship, hold on to your past attitudes.

Are the attitudes wrong? NO!

Are your beliefs right, YES!

In my humble opinion, we need to fight them at their game.
Say what ever it takes to get elected and then turn.

Honesty is the conservatives biggest liability.

We may only have one more shot. If 2014 is a wash for Rats, then all is lost.

Then I will saying where is my phone.


28 posted on 04/04/2013 5:19:13 PM PDT by hadaclueonce (Forget Mexico. Put the border fence around California.)
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To: hadaclueonce
In my humble opinion, we need to fight them at their game. Say what ever it takes to get elected and then turn. Honesty is the conservatives biggest liability.

Hah! Ok, I get it - and thanks for the explanation.
Sure, I understand the logic, but you have to remember that Nations and Empires come and go, but eternity is for ever. The ends do not justify the means.

Thessalonians 5:5 Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness.

29 posted on 04/04/2013 5:32:25 PM PDT by El Cid (Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house...)
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To: Viennacon

I like your approach...praying for ourselves and others is always the best and should be the first action!

Totally agreed with everything you said...

Easter blessings to you!


30 posted on 04/04/2013 5:33:12 PM PDT by sassy steel magnolia
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To: sassy steel magnolia

Easter blessings to you, my friend. With less and less people praying today in our godless society, He will hear your words all the more loudly.


31 posted on 04/04/2013 5:36:32 PM PDT by Viennacon
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To: El Cid

Glad your got my point.

those who did not, prove my post was not in vain.


32 posted on 04/04/2013 5:41:43 PM PDT by hadaclueonce (Forget Mexico. Put the border fence around California.)
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To: hadaclueonce
Say what ever it takes to get elected and then turn

You mean after we win that magical election, we won't need to win others?

33 posted on 04/04/2013 5:42:31 PM PDT by annalex (fear them not)
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To: hadaclueonce

How the heck have you escaped detection for so many years?

They need to keep their “bedroom” antics off the streets, and out of MY FACE and MY CHILDREN’S schools!!


34 posted on 04/04/2013 5:51:17 PM PDT by Politicalmom (Liberalism. Ideas so great they have to be mandatory.-FReeper Osage Orange)
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To: James C. Bennett
Well here’s something for you to consider…..I don’t expect folks to all agree with me but this is what I believe. People will define ‘marriage’ in all sorts of strange ways but the reality is there is only one thing unique about it. In fact, here is a definition of marriage that draws a number of scriptural concepts together…. “Marriage is the institution created by God that allows men and women the means to experience the sexual characteristics that are innate to their humanity in the only environment that He approves of.” Marriage doesn’t start when the wedding ceremony is over and the documents are signed…. Marriage starts with the act of sex between the man and the woman and fact, sex is the only defining aspect about the relationship that sets it apart from all others. Thus your statement is flawed….. there really is no such thing as sex before marriage since a marriage starts simultaneously with sex. Here’s the implication of this…. a single person may go out for the night and have sex with a person they met. The individuals may not even treat the encounter with very much seriousness…. but in God’s eyes, they just married each other.
35 posted on 04/04/2013 5:56:33 PM PDT by hecticskeptic
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To: NYer

bkmk


36 posted on 04/04/2013 5:58:12 PM PDT by Sergio (An object at rest cannot be stopped! - The Evil Midnight Bomber What Bombs at Midnight)
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To: Future Snake Eater

“No, Sodom and Gomorrah were destroyed b/c the people were very inhospitable to outsiders; a grave faux pas back in those days.”

As I’m sure you are aware, this is a popular misinterpretation of Scripture amongst sodomites, but the New Testament also debunks that myth:

Jude 7 : “As Sodom and Gomorrha, and the neighbouring cities, in like manner having given themselves over to fornication, and going after other flesh, were made an example, suffering the punishment of eternal fire.”

The Bible is clear that it was their perverse desires which led to their destruction - it had nothing to do with “hospitality”


37 posted on 04/04/2013 6:10:58 PM PDT by Deacon Augustine
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`


38 posted on 04/04/2013 6:30:37 PM PDT by Mrs. Don-o ("You can observe a lot just by watchin'." - Yogi Berra)
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To: James C. Bennett

The word that gets translated to fornication in the Bible is the Greek word “porneia” which means ANY sex that isn’t between a married man and wife.

The other thing about people who pose their sin state as “final and deal with it” or like this person who says, “I’m a gay-Christian” completely miss the point where Jesus forgives us our sins when we face the fact that they are wrong, but then tells us to “go and sin no more.” Not even trying to repent or turn away from sin is wrong and leads to more problems.


39 posted on 04/04/2013 6:35:49 PM PDT by ScubieNuc (When there is no justice in the laws, justice is left to the outlaws.)
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To: hecticskeptic
Marriage starts with the act of sex between the man and the woman

Now you're talking about bigamy and polygamy as well. How many marriages can an adulterer have? Are you suggesting that God approves of that?

40 posted on 04/04/2013 6:47:55 PM PDT by mtg
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To: hadaclueonce

Kings “rule the country”. Obozo isn’t a king, he said so himself. Anyway, this is not a political issue - the God who made us says that it’s wrong for a man to stick his weenie up another man’s bum - therefore it’s wrong and that’s that. Ohomo can get all the laws passed he wants, it doesn’t change the fact that it’s a sin and those who practice it and don’t repent will spend eternity in hell. I will not support it politically.

Can someone who has previously accepted Christ become a homo? I guess so, just as they can commit adultery or any other sin. If they do not repent and turn away from it eventually, I suspect that they were never saved in the first place.

The fact that those who favor this unhealthy lifestyle politically want to make it illegal to leave it once you are trapped in it tells me all I need to know about who’s behind it. Only Satan would have to pass laws to keep you from leaving his clutches once he has you.....sort of like Islam, come to think of it.


41 posted on 04/04/2013 7:02:15 PM PDT by Some Fat Guy in L.A. (Still bitterly clinging to rational thought despite it's unfashionability)
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To: mtg

And that’s the point... God only approves of a marriage between one man and one woman. What is created when a person has sex with more than one person of the opposite sex is sin and confusion....where the only exception is when one the two parties dies and the other remarries. And if a sexual act is with a member of the same sex, it’s an abomination.... Leviticus 20:13.


42 posted on 04/04/2013 7:21:58 PM PDT by hecticskeptic
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To: NYer

Rom 1:27
and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion.
NIV

What does that mean?


43 posted on 04/04/2013 7:27:33 PM PDT by TArcher ("TO SECURE THESE RIGHTS, governments are instituted among men" -- Does that still work?)
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To: hecticskeptic

Nonsense.

If your argument had any validity, premarital sex wouldn’t have been the capital offense it once was, per the Old Testament.


44 posted on 04/04/2013 7:31:19 PM PDT by James C. Bennett (An Australian.)
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To: RobbyS
Right now I am more worried about who rules the Church.

What did God do that is worrying you, right now?

45 posted on 04/04/2013 7:41:56 PM PDT by USS Alaska (Nuke the terrorist savages, start today.)
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To: USS Alaska

His ministers. Are they serving Him as they ought? The politicians, as usual, serve themselves.


46 posted on 04/04/2013 10:17:59 PM PDT by RobbyS
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To: ScubieNuc

Calling evil good and good evil has served us well as a long term strategy.


47 posted on 04/04/2013 10:22:32 PM PDT by RobbyS
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To: hadaclueonce
Honesty is the conservatives biggest liability.

No such thing as conservatism without honesty. That's the whole point, and if you've missed that, you've kinda missed what it means to be conservative.

Look at it this way. If I tell my kids,

* be truthful about the limits of money,

* be truthful about the child-producing nature of natural marriage,

* be truthful about what it means to kill an innocent child in the womb,

* be truthful about the ugly force it sometimes takes to defend innocent lives from criminals, crazies, and tyrants,

* be truthful about the relative normalcy of the climate, the stability of nature, the smallness of man's role,

* be truthful about why Chicago has such a high murder rate,

* be truthful about the hard work it takes to succeed in most anything and what bad things can happen when you fail.

... and then I say ...

"But to do all that, you gotta lie like the Devil, who is the Father of lies, you gotta be better at lying and dirty tricks than the most sickening, perverted democrats you know"

... do you think just maybe I'd be sending my children some pretty mixed up messages? You raise kids to be conservative by exampling truth to them. Preach truth and live a lie and you will lose them to the dark side. I've seen it happen. Dems, libs, and leftists are so accustomed to lies they can't even hear truth. I know. I've got extended family members who are de facto communists and they just become unreachable after too much time living in the Lie.

So if we followed your advice, maybe we'd do ok for a few elections cycles, beating the dems at their own game. But then one morning we'd wake up and discover we had become them, just as controlling, just as capable of lies and murder. So even if "we" won, it wouldn't be worth it to win on those terms. "we" wouldn't be "us" anymore.

So thanks, but no thanks.

48 posted on 04/04/2013 11:18:27 PM PDT by Springfield Reformer (Winston Churchill: No Peace Till Victory!)
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To: NYer

That is all good and proper, but where I grew up we didn’t need to look at the Bible to know homosexuals are sick in the head.


49 posted on 04/04/2013 11:30:13 PM PDT by Berlin_Freeper
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To: James C. Bennett

and divorce.


50 posted on 04/04/2013 11:45:22 PM PDT by Natufian (t)
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