Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

The Church Jesus Built - Introduction
The Church Jesus Built ^ | Various | United Church of God

Posted on 04/08/2013 9:22:31 AM PDT by DouglasKC

click here to read article


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-2021-4041-6061-80 ... 301-312 next last
To: DouglasKC

Are those who believe in Jesus Christ as in the Holy Trinity, trinitarians, part of the church your article describes?


41 posted on 04/08/2013 4:46:01 PM PDT by D-fendr (Deus non alligatur sacramentis sed nos alligamur.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: D-fendr
Are those who believe in Jesus Christ as in the Holy Trinity, trinitarians, part of the church your article describes?

Beats me. Only Jesus knows who are his. He gave us hints though:

Mat 7:15 "Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves.
Mat 7:16 You will know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes from thornbushes or figs from thistles?
Mat 7:17 Even so, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit.
Mat 7:18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit.
Mat 7:19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.
Mat 7:20 Therefore by their fruit you will know them.
Mat 7:21 "Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven.
Mat 7:22 Many will say to Me in that day, 'Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?'
Mat 7:23 And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!'

Christ indicates that there will be MANY who will claim to follow him but their lawlessness, their sin, the antipathy of the law of God, will mark them out.

Paul says much the same thing though in a different way:

Gal 5:19 Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness,
Gal 5:20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies,
Gal 5:21 envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.
Gal 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,
Gal 5:23 gentleness, self-control. Against such there is no law.

Christianity today, as I'm sure you will agree, is chock full of those who claim Christ yet practice and espouse all sorts of lawlessness. Whether or not they embrace the tradition of the trinity matters little at that point.

42 posted on 04/08/2013 4:54:52 PM PDT by DouglasKC
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 41 | View Replies]

To: DouglasKC
Jesus Christ said that He would build ‘His Church’ and that it would never die out..... Is today's Christianity, the Church Jesus promised that He would build?

Yes of course...for the church is made up of Christian believers from all walks of life, from various cultures, and peculiarities. It was so when He walked among us, and after that.

That's not to say there isn't error happening....the church doesn't do a very good job of identifying the “wolfs” Jesus expressly said would be among us.

But there are no perfect church denominations or otherwise apart from the centrality of Jesus Christ being foremost among it's believers.

43 posted on 04/08/2013 4:55:08 PM PDT by caww
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: caww
That's not to say there isn't error happening....the church doesn't do a very good job of identifying the “wolfs” Jesus expressly said would be among us. But there are no perfect church denominations or otherwise apart from the centrality of Jesus Christ being foremost among it's believers.

See post above...I think as we progress closer and closer to the end times that the term "Christian" will be widely embraced but not wisely practiced. Many will come in the name of Christ but will reject what he actually taught and believed.

44 posted on 04/08/2013 4:58:23 PM PDT by DouglasKC
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 43 | View Replies]

To: DouglasKC
You stated of Armstrong.....”I do know from some study that he never asked people to “blindly” accept what he said. Instead he urged people to verify what he said against scripture.”....”I think that's fair.”.....

Oops!.....That's what many cults and false religions say as well, so does the New Age Spirituality......that is no indication you should continue with them....but it gives people a ‘false’ sense of security to continue, unfortunately.

Armstrong is nothing people should get involved with....it has enough “truth” to entice and then mingles it's own ideology and beliefs with it....as do cults and false religions.

45 posted on 04/08/2013 5:06:36 PM PDT by caww
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 18 | View Replies]

To: caww
Oops!.....That's what many cults and false religions say as well, so does the New Age Spirituality......that is no indication you should continue with them....but it gives people a ‘false’ sense of security to continue, unfortunately.

Well THAT was certainly a leap from the previous discussion. Do you NOT think it's fair to verify from scripture what someone teaches you or tells you?? Or to encourage others to do the same? There are numerous examples in scripture of God's people verifying from scripture what Godly practices are.

46 posted on 04/08/2013 5:10:47 PM PDT by DouglasKC
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 45 | View Replies]

To: DouglasKC

The term “Christian” has been widely abused for generations...’this is nothing new’.... Many false religions, cults/ and ideologies claim the mantel of “Christian”...when in fact they are not...they serve “another Christ other than the Christ of the Bible, though “blinded” to that fact.


47 posted on 04/08/2013 5:11:15 PM PDT by caww
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 44 | View Replies]

To: caww
The term “Christian” has been widely abused for generations...’this is nothing new’.... Many false religions, cults/ and ideologies claim the mantel of “Christian”...when in fact they are not...they serve “another Christ other than the Christ of the Bible, though “blinded” to that fact.

I certainly agree...

48 posted on 04/08/2013 5:12:39 PM PDT by DouglasKC
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 47 | View Replies]

To: DouglasKC
"It's not here as a kingdom with authority but surely you believe there are called individuals who are members of the church of God under the new covenant? Correct?"

The Church of Matthew 16 IS the Great Congregation of the Millennial Reign of Christ.

No, it is a "church" that is not on earth at all, yet.

49 posted on 04/08/2013 5:21:18 PM PDT by John Leland 1789
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 39 | View Replies]

To: DouglasKC
.....”Do you NOT think it's fair to verify from scripture what someone teaches you or tells you?.... Or to encourage others to do the same? ....There are numerous examples in scripture of God's people verifying from scripture what Godly practices are.”......

It's not about "fair"....it's about "Truth". I think you learn how to identify falsehood and false teaching by already knowing and understanding the word of God....and study of.

Those who are taught how to identify counterfeit money are NOT taught what the phony stuff is....they are taught inch by inch, in every minute detail, what 'true' bills look like and are. Thus they can identify the false bills because they are well familiar with what is “real” (truth)

50 posted on 04/08/2013 5:21:47 PM PDT by caww
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 46 | View Replies]

To: John Leland 1789
No, it is a "church" that is not on earth at all, yet.

I'm not being critical or condemning but rather am trying to figure out your statements in light of the books of the new testament. Do you believe that only the gospels have authority or do you accept the other books of the new testament as authoritative?

51 posted on 04/08/2013 5:24:40 PM PDT by DouglasKC
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 49 | View Replies]

To: DouglasKC
…chock full of those who claim Christ yet practice and espouse all sorts of lawlessness. Whether or not they embrace the tradition of the trinity matters little at that point.

All other factors being equal does it matter? Does it matter if their beliefs concerning who Christ is are trinitarian or whether they more closely resemble those described as Unitarianism, Arianism, Docetism, Nestorianism, Modalism, Subordinationism, Sabellianism… etc.?

Or is the only thing that matters is they do not "espouse all sorts of lawlessness" according to the United Church of God and its adherents.

52 posted on 04/08/2013 5:26:24 PM PDT by D-fendr (Deus non alligatur sacramentis sed nos alligamur.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 42 | View Replies]

To: caww
It's not about "fair"....it's about "Truth". I think you learn how to identify falsehood and false teaching by already knowingwe and understanding the word of God....and study of. Those who are taught how to identify counterfeit money are NOT taught what the phony stuff is....they are taught inch by inch, in every minute detail, what 'true' bills look like and are. Thus they can identify the false bills because they are well familiar with what is “real” (truth)

Can't disagree with that.

2Ti 3:13 But evil men and impostors will grow worse and worse, deceiving and being deceived.
2Ti 3:14 But you must continue in the things which you have learned and been assured of, knowing from whom you have learned them,
2Ti 3:15 and that from childhood you have known the Holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.
2Ti 3:16 All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness,
2Ti 3:17 that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work.

The problem today is that there are very few who know (or want to know!) scripture well enough to combat false teachings and thus avoid being deceived.

53 posted on 04/08/2013 5:29:18 PM PDT by DouglasKC
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 50 | View Replies]

To: DouglasKC
"I'm not being critical or condemning but rather am trying to figure out your statements in light of the books of the new testament. Do you believe that only the gospels have authority or do you accept the other books of the new testament as authoritative?"

I accept the authority of 66 Books, the Whole Bible. Which "Church" a passage is dealing with must be determined from the context where the word "church" is used.

The "church" of the Pauline Epistles is the Body of Christ of the current dispensation. The "church" of Acts 7:38 refers to the congregation, the assembly, of Old Testament Israel. "Church" in at least 115 passages in the New Testament refers to a local visible assembly of born-again Christians. The "church" of Matthew 16, however, is a believing congregation in an earthly, royal, Davidic, and Millennial Kingdom and has keys used for entrance.

54 posted on 04/08/2013 5:35:16 PM PDT by John Leland 1789
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 51 | View Replies]

To: D-fendr
All other factors being equal does it matter? Does it matter if their beliefs concerning who Christ is are trinitarian or whether they more closely resemble those described as Unitarianism, Arianism, Docetism, Nestorianism, Modalism, Subordinationism, Sabellianism… etc.?
Or is the only thing that matters is they do not "espouse all sorts of lawlessness" according to the United Church of God and its adherents.

You can ask me my opinion directly instead of objectifying me and minimizing me...I promise I'll be civil. :-)

If you are asking my opinion I would say that of course doctrine matters. Doctrine is there because the Lord knows that it's the best way for us to grow and develop in his son's love. Doctrine is the guide, the framework, that the holy spirit uses to bring us up into spiritual maturity.

Now I'm equally aware that there are wolves in sheep clothing who may pretend to have the love of Christ but of course don't. They can exist as surely in a church that has false doctrine as well as those that teach Godly doctrine.

55 posted on 04/08/2013 5:36:24 PM PDT by DouglasKC
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 52 | View Replies]

To: John Leland 1789
The "church" of the Pauline Epistles is the Body of Christ of the current dispensation. The "church" of Acts 7:38 refers to the congregation, the assembly, of Old Testament Israel. "Church" in at least 115 passages in the New Testament refers to a local visible assembly of born-again Christians. The "church" of Matthew 16, however, is a believing congregation in an earthly, royal, Davidic, and Millennial Kingdom and has keys used for entrance.

I can see that about matthew 16. I've always believed that the rock that the church is built on is Christ though...his church (the called out ones not an organization) ARE not going to be defeated by death, or the gates of hades.

56 posted on 04/08/2013 5:44:44 PM PDT by DouglasKC
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 54 | View Replies]

To: DouglasKC
Sorry, I must not have been clear enough. I was asking for the view "according to the United Church of God and its adherents."

From the aticle I'm assuming that UCG thinks is is important what describes those who are part of "the Church that Jesus Built" and has a doctrine and that this would be a pretty important part of that doctrine.

So I'm asking for the UCG's (and presumably its members) doctrine here.

57 posted on 04/08/2013 5:46:52 PM PDT by D-fendr (Deus non alligatur sacramentis sed nos alligamur.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 55 | View Replies]

To: DouglasKC

bttt


58 posted on 04/08/2013 5:53:29 PM PDT by timestax (AMERICAN MEDIA= DOMESTIC ENEMY)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: D-fendr
From the aticle I'm assuming that UCG thinks is is important what describes those who are part of "the Church that Jesus Built" and has a doctrine and that this would be a pretty important part of that doctrine.
So I'm asking for the UCG's (and presumably its members) doctrine here.

That's a big request. UCG isn't a monolithic organization. It's a group of people who believe in certain basic beliefs. Within those beliefs there are variations and shadows.

I would recommend starting at the www.ucg.org perhaps starting at fundamental beliefs.

A general belief, evident from reading the booklet that this article introduces, is that there is a LOT of false religion in the world including within Christianity itself. This should be evident considering especially the corruption of many "main stream" protestant denominations.

However within those organizations it's always considered that there are members of the church of God or at least potential members of the church of God.

I hope that helps/answers your question...

59 posted on 04/08/2013 6:09:31 PM PDT by DouglasKC
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 57 | View Replies]

To: DouglasKC

Thanks Doug.

From your link, the UCG does not teach trinitarian doctrine, but something different concerning God the Father, Christ and the Holy Spirit.

As for importance, I can only apply what it says about all its fundamental beliefs including this one:

“We consider the teaching of these beliefs to be critical to building on the right foundation of a proper reverence for God’s Word, especially as revealed in Jesus Christ.”

I would have to assume that those not teaching this belief would lack the right foundation, etc. and therefore be quite unlikely to be among the “Church Jesus Built” per the UCG.

This would exclude pretty much all protestant Christians such as Lutherans, Methodists, Baptists, Presbyterians, etc. and of course Catholics.

Let me know if you think I’m in error here. thanks again...


60 posted on 04/08/2013 6:30:58 PM PDT by D-fendr (Deus non alligatur sacramentis sed nos alligamur.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 59 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-2021-4041-6061-80 ... 301-312 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson