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Lutheran Pastor Meets Pope Francis in Rome
The Catholic Herald (UK) ^ | 4/9/13 | Cindy Wooden

Posted on 04/09/2013 7:53:00 AM PDT by marshmallow

The head of the Council of the Evangelical Church in Germany, Dr Nikolaus Schneider, has said he is hopeful for future Christian unity after meeting Pope Francis at the Vatican.

Dr Schneider had been scheduled to meet Pope Benedict XVI during an early April trip to Rome. Instead, he spent about 30 minutes with Pope Francis on Monday in the papal library in the Apostolic Palace.

“I hope a Pope who shows himself so close to the poor and the suffering also shows his understanding of couples who share everything except Communion,” he told reporters. In Germany where tens of thousands of Catholics are married to Protestants, broader permission to receive Communion in each others’ churches is something many people have been seeking for years.

The Lutheran pastor praised the former Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger for his important contributions to the 1999 Catholic-Lutheran theological agreement on justification, the dispute at the heart of the Protestant Reformation; and he described as “historic” Pope Benedict’s decision in 2011 to visit the former Augustinian monastery where Luther lived until 1511.

But he said the German-born Pope also “offended” Protestants when, as head of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, he insisted in 2000 that Protestant communities were not “churches in the proper sense” because they have not preserved apostolic succession among their bishops, nor a traditional understanding of the mystery of the Eucharist.

(Excerpt) Read more at catholicherald.co.uk ...


TOPICS: Catholic; Ecumenism; Mainline Protestant
KEYWORDS:

1 posted on 04/09/2013 7:53:00 AM PDT by marshmallow
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To: marshmallow
In Germany where tens of thousands of Catholics are married to Protestants, broader permission to receive Communion in each others’ churches is something many people have been seeking for years.

Hmmmm ... that would seem to depend on two things:

1) That the Protestants and the Catholics believe the same thing about what '(Holy) Communion' is.

2) That the Protestants and the Catholics believe the same thing about what the ordained ministry is.

Absent that, receiving Communion in each others' churches would be dishonest.

2 posted on 04/09/2013 7:58:30 AM PDT by ArrogantBustard (Western Civilization is Aborting, Buggering, and Contracepting itself out of existence.)
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To: ArrogantBustard

Spot on.

Oddly it is only the hard core Catholics and hard core Protestants that understand this.


3 posted on 04/09/2013 8:05:42 AM PDT by Gamecock ("Ultimately, Jesus died to save us from the wrath of God." —R.C. Sproul)
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To: ArrogantBustard

Yes there is a lot in common, but still a number of important issues to address. Ordaination and Communion are at the top of the list.


4 posted on 04/09/2013 8:12:52 AM PDT by cotton
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To: marshmallow
I don't know any mixed-marriage couple that has a problem with no intercommunion.

Perhaps hundreds of thousands of Germans are intermarried, but I'll wager only a few hundred are campaigning for intercommunion.

5 posted on 04/09/2013 8:13:58 AM PDT by wideawake
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To: Gamecock
Yes, it is odd.

For many folks, it seems, church or denominational identification is little more than an ethnic affiliation. No real committed belief seems to be associated with it.

To be Christian of any sort; to be Catholic, or Lutheran, or Presbyterian, or whatever should actually mean something. It should signify mental and spiritual assent to certain propositions as TRUTH, and the willingness to conduct one's life accordingly.

I find it odd, and unfortunate, that real commitment is rare enough to be considered 'hard core'.

6 posted on 04/09/2013 8:32:03 AM PDT by ArrogantBustard (Western Civilization is Aborting, Buggering, and Contracepting itself out of existence.)
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To: ArrogantBustard
#1. We are very close.

#2. Not so much. Some synods have apostolic succession, most do not (after the 30 years war that wasn't an option. Records got burnt by the Swedes).

To be honest, I don't see a serious person in either party wanting co communion right now. In my own synod, I am not supposed to go to communion in a foreign parish unless I talk to the Pastor.

7 posted on 04/09/2013 8:38:53 AM PDT by redgolum ("God is dead" -- Nietzsche. "Nietzsche is dead" -- God.)
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To: ArrogantBustard
Evangelical Church in Germany,

Is this a liberal church?

8 posted on 04/09/2013 8:52:08 AM PDT by dragonblustar (2 Peter 3:18)
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To: dragonblustar
Is this a liberal church?

Heh ... It's Protestant.

I'll let Protestants judge its liberalism.

9 posted on 04/09/2013 8:54:44 AM PDT by ArrogantBustard (Western Civilization is Aborting, Buggering, and Contracepting itself out of existence.)
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To: wideawake

It comes down to we both believe in and love Jesus, but the Catholics believe in the DIVINITY of the Eucharist - consuming Christ Himself. To receive/consume communion in a protestant church is to demonstrate to the good people there that we symbolically, only pretend to believe this, that it’s all a wink.

To give a piece of divinity to someone who does not believe it is divinity, is to insult the Divinity, to sacrilege. That is not echumenism, it is getting that recipient damned with misplaced encouragement. How evil for a Catholic to do this in Jesus’ love/name to the unwitting or disbelieving. We’re not supposed to trick people into receiving His body, blood, soul, and divinity, physically, in the Eucharist.

The Reformation folks chose to change the meaning of what Jesus said, not the Catholics. The’re descendant followers are free to change back at any time, and we would welcome that.

There is no middle ground to split or it would have been split by both sides eagerly!!!


10 posted on 04/09/2013 9:07:23 AM PDT by If You Want It Fixed - Fix It
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To: marshmallow
Catholics have Churches; Protestants have buildings.

This is not complicated. The Protestants do not have Apostolic Succession; the protestants do not have Holy Orders; the protestants do not have the Holy Sacrifice of The Mass; the protestants do not have The Holy Eucharist; The Protestants do not have Confession; the protestants do not have worship accrd to Malachias; the protestants do have a bible that was eviscerated for political purposes.

Let's look at one egregious example of how they falsified scripture.

Malachias 1:11: For from the rising of the sun even to the going down, my name is great among the Gentiles, and in every place there is sacrifice, and there is offered to my name a clean oblation: for my name is great among the Gentiles, saith the Lord of hosts The protestant revolutionaries changed the words of the Prophet, Malachias in a , largely successful, attempt to fool their new followers into believing heresy: 11 For from the rising of the sun even unto the going down of the same my name shall be great among the Gentiles; and in every place incense shall be offered unto my name, and a pure offering: for my name shall be great among the heathen, saith the Lord of hosts.

As an aside, if a protestant can administer confesion to his own self, of what need is there for a minister to baptise?

That is, if a protestant can self- administer one sacrament, why not others?

11 posted on 04/09/2013 9:26:05 AM PDT by Vermont Crank (Invisible yet are signs of the force of Tradition that'll act upon our inertia into Indifferentism)
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To: marshmallow
“I hope a Pope who shows himself so close to the poor and the suffering also shows his understanding of couples who share everything except Communion,” he told reporters.

It seems possible this gentleman is a bit of a crank.

12 posted on 04/09/2013 11:01:03 AM PDT by Tax-chick (That sound? It's either the love call of the sand-squid, or my son playing the guitar.)
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To: Gamecock; ArrogantBustard
It depends -- with Calvinists who do note believe in the True Presence in the Eucharist, the Eucharist is merely symbolic, so there can be no common understanding of the Eucharist

With Lutherans it is different - not completely the same, but a lot closer. There can be a better understanding between Catholics and Lutherans on the matter of the Eucharist.

13 posted on 04/09/2013 11:08:10 AM PDT by Cronos (Latin presbuteros->Late Latin presbyter->Old English pruos->Middle Engl prest->priest)
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To: Vermont Crank; redgolum; Gamecock
vermont This is not complicated. The Protestants do not have -- it IS complicated. you cannot use the "P" word to club so many varying beliefs together

Many Lutherans do hold to Apostolic Succession, they do have Holy Orders and the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass and Confession.

14 posted on 04/09/2013 11:35:45 AM PDT by Cronos (Latin presbuteros->Late Latin presbyter->Old English pruos->Middle Engl prest->priest)
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To: redgolum
#1. We are very close.

Depends on the denomination. Some would be very far away.

15 posted on 04/09/2013 12:18:23 PM PDT by dartuser (My firearm is not illegal ... its undocumented.)
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To: Cronos
with Calvinists who do note believe in the True Presence in the Eucharist, the Eucharist is merely symbolic,

Not exactly. Presbyterians are sort of in the middle of what you are describing.

From the Larger Catechism:

Q. 170. How do they that worthily communicate in the Lord's supper feed upon the body and blood of Christ therein?
A. As the body and blood of Christ are not corporally or carnally present in, with, or under the bread and wine in the Lord's supper, and yet are spiritually present to the faith of the receiver, no less truly and really than the elements themselves are to their outward senses; so they that worthily communicate in the sacrament of the Lord's supper, do therein feed upon the body and blood of Christ, not after a corporal and carnal, but in a spiritual manner; yet truly and really, while by faith they receive and apply unto themselves Christ crucified, and all the benefits of his death.

Can't speak for the Dutch Reformed or the Particular Baptists.

16 posted on 04/09/2013 1:02:58 PM PDT by Gamecock ("Ultimately, Jesus died to save us from the wrath of God." —R.C. Sproul)
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To: dartuser

Yes, but the article was about Lutheran syonds and the Catholic church.


17 posted on 04/09/2013 1:20:01 PM PDT by redgolum ("God is dead" -- Nietzsche. "Nietzsche is dead" -- God.)
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To: redgolum

True, the article was about Lutherans ... but the #1 in the list specifically said Protestants ...


18 posted on 04/09/2013 1:27:04 PM PDT by dartuser (My firearm is not illegal ... its undocumented.)
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To: dragonblustar

The Evangelical Church of Germany is what we refer to in the States as the Lutherans.


19 posted on 04/09/2013 6:29:22 PM PDT by CTrent1564
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To: Gamecock

Thanks for the correction, I did not know that. Would it be correct to say that the PCA, OPC and (I know you won’t like it, but just theologically on this one matter) the PCUSA all believe what you stated about the Eucharist?


20 posted on 04/09/2013 11:33:56 PM PDT by Cronos (Latin presbuteros->Late Latin presbyter->Old English pruos->Middle Engl prest->priest)
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To: Gamecock; ArrogantBustard; redgolum

However, it is fundamentally different from the beliefs of Lutherans on the Eucharist. And this was the root cause of the Prussian Union wherein the King of Prussia (I think it was pre-Kaiser times) forced together the Calvinists and Lutherans into one Church


21 posted on 04/10/2013 3:01:23 AM PDT by Cronos (Latin presbuteros->Late Latin presbyter->Old English pruos->Middle Engl prest->priest)
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To: Cronos

It was also why many Germans came here.


22 posted on 04/10/2013 4:04:44 AM PDT by redgolum ("God is dead" -- Nietzsche. "Nietzsche is dead" -- God.)
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To: Cronos

I believe that would be correct.


23 posted on 04/10/2013 6:10:44 AM PDT by Gamecock ("Ultimately, Jesus died to save us from the wrath of God." —R.C. Sproul)
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To: Cronos

That is correct.


24 posted on 04/10/2013 6:11:31 AM PDT by Gamecock ("Ultimately, Jesus died to save us from the wrath of God." —R.C. Sproul)
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To: Cronos
Dear Cronos. Protestants do not have unity of Doctrine; they do have unity of opposition to the One True Catholic Church Jesus established.

Many Lutherans make many claims but there is no connection with them and Apostolic Succession; that is, they are all laymen, even their ministers.

25 posted on 04/10/2013 9:22:30 AM PDT by Vermont Crank (Invisible yet are signs of the force of Tradition that'll act upon our inertia into Indifferentism)
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To: marshmallow

If the Lutheran spouse converts to the one, true Faith, then they will be able to share Holy Communion.

Done and done.


26 posted on 04/10/2013 6:45:21 PM PDT by piusv
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