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Three Meetings with a LDS General Authority, 2012- 2013 ['LDS Church...not true' uttered by leaders]
MormonThink.com ^ | April 6, 2013 | Grant Palmer

Posted on 04/09/2013 4:52:45 PM PDT by Colofornian

Editor Comment: Grant waited 6 months before releasing this report to the public because he wanted to make sure this is what the GA believed.

In mid-October 2012, a returned LDS Mission President contacted me to arrange a meeting. Several days later, he called again and said that a member of the First Quorum of the Seventy also wished to attend. He said the General Authority would attend on condition that I not name him or repeat any stories that would identify him. He explained that neither of them, including the GA’s wife, believed the founding claims of the restoration were true. He clarified that they had read my book, An Insider’s View of Mormon Origins, and had concluded that the LDS Church was not true; was not what it claimed to be. The GA often went to the MormonThink.com website for information and there discovered my book. The Mission President said he received my book from the GA.

We have at this writing met three times. We first met on Tuesday, October 23, 2012 and again February 14, 2013 at my house. On March 26, 2013 we convened at the GAs house. Upon entering my home for the first meeting the GA said, “We are here to learn.” I recognized him. He has been a member of the First Quorum of the Seventy for a number of years. He has served in several high profile assignments during this period. The following are the more important statements made by the GA during our first three meetings. We now meet monthly.

He said that each new member of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles is given one million dollars to take care of any financial obligations they have. This money gift allows them to fully focus on the ministry. He said that the overriding consideration of who is chosen is whether they are “church broke,” meaning, will they do whatever they are told. He said the senior six apostles make the agenda and do most of the talking. The junior six are told to observe, listen and learn and really only comment if they are asked. He said that it takes about two to three years before the new apostle discovers that the church is not true. He said it took Dieter F. Uchtdorf a little longer because he was an outsider. He said they privately talk among themselves and know the foundational claims of the restoration are not true, but continue on boldly “because the people need it,” meaning the people need the church. When the Mission President voiced skepticism and named ___ as one who surely did believe, The GA said: “No, he doesn’t.” The one million dollar gift, plus their totally obedient attitude makes it easy for them to go along when they find out the church is not true. For these reasons and others, he doesn’t expect any apostle to ever expose the truth about the foundational claims.

When I asked the GA how he knew these things, he answered by saying that the Quorum of the Twelve today is more isolated from the Quorums of the Seventies now because there are several of them. When only one Quorum of the Seventy existed, there was more intimacy. During his one on one assignments with an apostle, conversations were more familiar. He said that none of the apostles ever said to him directly that they did not believe; but that it was his opinion based on “his interactions with them.” Also, that none of the Twelve want to discuss “truth issues,” meaning issues regarding the foundational claims of the church.

He said that the apostle’s lives are so completely and entirely enmeshed in every detail of their lives in the church, that many of them would probably die defending the church rather than admit the truth about Joseph Smith and the foundations of the church. The GA stated that my disciplinary action (which would have occurred on the final Sunday of October 2010 had I not resigned), was mandated/ordered/approved by the First Presidency of the Church. I said that if the apostles know the church is not true and yet order a disciplinary hearing for my writing a book that is almost certainly true regarding the foundational claims of the church, then they are corrupt even evil. He replied, “That’s right!”

The GA said the church is like a weakened dam. At first you don’t see cracks on the face; nevertheless, things are happening behind the scenes. Eventually, small cracks appear, and then the dam will “explode.” When it does, he said, the members are going to be “shocked” and will need scholars/historians like me to educate them regarding the Mormon past.

The Mission President and the GA both said they attend church every Sunday and feel like “a hypocrite and trapped.” The GA said his ward treats him like a king and when he gives firesides and speaks to LDS congregations they have high expectations of him. He would like to do more in getting the truth out besides raising a few questions when speaking and gifting my book to others when feeling comfortable. Perhaps this is why he has reached out to me. The GA is a man of integrity and very loving. Upon leaving each time, he always gives me a big hug.

Do the Following Statements Support the Disclosures of the GA?

Apostle Boyd K. Packer said to Michael Quinn when interviewing him for a history position at BYU in 1976, “I have a hard time with historians because they idolize the truth. The truth is not uplifting, it destroys,” quoted in, Faithful History: Essays on Writing Mormon History, editor, George D. Smith, (Salt Lake City, Utah: Signature Books, 1992), 76n22.

Gregory Prince, who wrote a seminal biography of President David O. McKay, related to me that when he interviewed Hugh Nibley, a professor at BYU in 1995, that “At one point in the interview he [Nibley] asked that I turn off the tape recorder, which I did. He then related a curious anecdote relating to McKay and the Book of Mormon,” indicating that McKay did not believe in the historicity of the Book of Mormon (emails exchanged between me and Greg Prince on June 22, 2005. These documents are located in The Grant H. Palmer Papers, Accn 2071, Manuscripts Division, Marriott Library, University of Utah, Salt Lake City, Utah).

Thomas Stuart Ferguson, a California lawyer, church member and avid amateur archeologist, took the Egyptian papyri that was gifted to the church in 1967 to several Egyptologists at Berkeley, and as I recall Brown University and had them independently translated. All said the papyri were common funerary rites from the Book of the Dead. Ferguson then took their statements to apostle Hugh B. Brown, and after reviewing the evidence “with Brother Brown he said that Brother Brown agreed with him that it was not scripture …. that Hugh B. Brown did not believe the Book of Abraham was what the church said it was” (Journal entry of Ronald O. Barney concerning Thomas Stuart Ferguson on 19 April, 1984. Barney, now retired, worked at the LDS Library and Archives at Church headquarters, in Salt Lake City). Ferguson also said the same to Gerald and Sandra Tanner on December 2, 1970: “Mr. Ferguson had just visited with Mormon apostle Hugh B. Brown before coming to our house, and said that Brown has also come to the conclusion that the Book of Abraham was false” (Letter of Gerald Tanner to Dee Jay Nelson, December 10, 1970, published by Modern Microfilm Co., SLC, Utah).


TOPICS: Current Events; General Discusssion; Other non-Christian; Religion & Culture
KEYWORDS: disbelievers; generalauthorities; inman; lds; mormonism
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From the report: In mid-October 2012, a returned LDS Mission President contacted me to arrange a meeting. Several days later, he called again and said that a member of the First Quorum of the Seventy also wished to attend. He said the General Authority would attend on condition that I not name him or repeat any stories that would identify him. He explained that neither of them, including the GA’s wife, believed the founding claims of the restoration were true. He clarified that they had read my book, An Insider’s View of Mormon Origins, and had concluded that the LDS Church was not true; was not what it claimed to be. The GA often went to the MormonThink.com website for information and there discovered my book. The Mission President said he received my book from the GA. We have at this writing met three times. We first met on Tuesday, October 23, 2012 and again February 14, 2013 at my house. On March 26, 2013 we convened at the GAs house. Upon entering my home for the first meeting the GA said, “We are here to learn.” I recognized him. He has been a member of the First Quorum of the Seventy for a number of years. He has served in several high profile assignments during this period. The following are the more important statements made by the GA during our first three meetings. We now meet monthly. He said that each new member of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles is given one million dollars to take care of any financial obligations they have. This money gift allows them to fully focus on the ministry. He said that the overriding consideration of who is chosen is whether they are “church broke,” meaning, will they do whatever they are told. He said the senior six apostles make the agenda and do most of the talking. The junior six are told to observe, listen and learn and really only comment if they are asked. He said that it takes about two to three years before the new apostle discovers that the church is not true. He said it took Dieter F. Uchtdorf a little longer because he was an outsider. He said they privately talk among themselves and know the foundational claims of the restoration are not true, but continue on boldly “because the people need it,” meaning the people need the church. When the Mission President voiced skepticism and named ___ as one who surely did believe, The GA said: “No, he doesn’t.” The one million dollar gift, plus their totally obedient attitude makes it easy for them to go along when they find out the church is not true. For these reasons and others, he doesn’t expect any apostle to ever expose the truth about the foundational claims.

So...High-level Lds leaders are already indicating they among the Mormon DISbelievers!

And, that such "disbelief" is rampant among them!

Also, they have disclosed that if an Lds apostle isn't already a millionaire, the Lds church ensures they become one!

Along with these "revelations," the "inside term" High-level Lds leaders use for both the selection process and early "grooming" of Lds newbie "apostles" is "church broke"...IOW, "will they do whatever they are told" by the six senior "apostles?" Are they "sold out" to the church structure?

And many of these high-level Lds leaders realize the Mormon church is on the precipice of going over the cliff...or, to use their own metaphor: The weakened Lds dam is about to break wide open!

From the report: The GA said the church is like a weakened dam. At first you don’t see cracks on the face; nevertheless, things are happening behind the scenes. Eventually, small cracks appear, and then the dam will “explode.” When it does, he said, the members are going to be “shocked” and will need scholars/historians like me to educate them regarding the Mormon past. The Mission President and the GA both said they attend church every Sunday and feel like “a hypocrite and trapped.”

The Internet age has brought about a "dam" about to break upon Mormonism. The flood of truth cannot be contained by its general authorities; in fact, even they realize it -- but are now patronizing its grass roots in believing they cannot handle the full truth.

1 posted on 04/09/2013 4:52:45 PM PDT by Colofornian
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To: All
For an assessment of ex-Mormon author Grant Palmer's claims written on a blog, see Rumor Rumor Every Where, Nor Any Fact To Think? [Blog assesses 'LDS Church...not true' revelations] and either comment there -- or you can click on the link for that blog itself.
2 posted on 04/09/2013 4:54:30 PM PDT by Colofornian (If BoM is everlasting gospel, why no god as exalted man, 3 glorious degrees, men becoming gods, etc?)
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To: Colofornian

The modern dissenters better be praying that there are no
Danites or Porter Rockwells to do the work of the leaders.


3 posted on 04/09/2013 5:06:18 PM PDT by greyfoxx39 (Joseph Smith died in a gun battle. This is NOT a martyr's death!)
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To: greyfoxx39

“I say, rather than that apostates should flourish here, I will unsheath [sic] my bowie knife, and conquer or die [Great commotion in the congregation, and a simultaneous burst of feeling, assenting to the declaration.]. Now, you nasty apostates, clear out, or judgment will be put to the line, and righteousness to the plummet [Voices, generally, ‘go it, go it.’]. If you say it is right, raise your hands [All hands up.]. Let us call upon the Lord to assist us in this, and every good work.”
- Prophet Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, v. 1, p. 83

“...it was the imperative duty of the Church to obey the word of Joseph Smith, or the presidency, without question or inquiry, and that if there were any that would not, they should have their throats cut from ear [to] ear.”
- Sidney Rigdon letter to Apostle Orson Hyde, October 21, 1844, in Nauvoo Neighbor, December 4, 1844

“Punishment by death is the penalty for refusing to obey the orders of the Priesthood. I knew of many men being killed in Nauvoo by the Danites. It was then the rule that all enemies of the Prophet Joseph should be killed, and I knew of many a man who was quietly put out of the way by the orders of Joseph and his apostles while the church was there.”
- Elder John D. Lee (1812 – 1877), Danite and adopted son of Brigham Young, John D. Lee Diaries


4 posted on 04/09/2013 5:20:52 PM PDT by greyfoxx39 (Joseph Smith died in a gun battle. This is NOT a martyr's death!)
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To: Colofornian
From the many books available years ago from Gerald & Sandra Tanner I learned all that I needed to convince a young friend (born into a Mormon family) that Mormonism is a false religion of monumental proportions.

Within a few weeks I went with him to their church, laid out the evidence to the church leadership (which they could not refute) and that young man walked out of the Mormon church that day, and joined a bible teaching church that I was a member of, met and married a young christian girl, and has continued as one of the most outspoken critics of the Mormon cult.

5 posted on 04/09/2013 5:24:53 PM PDT by Ron C.
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To: Ron C.; All
From the many books available years ago from Gerald & Sandra Tanner I learned all that I needed to convince a young friend (born into a Mormon family) that Mormonism is a false religion of monumental proportions. Within a few weeks I went with him to their church, laid out the evidence to the church leadership (which they could not refute) and that young man walked out of the Mormon church that day, and joined a bible teaching church that I was a member of, met and married a young christian girl, and has continued as one of the most outspoken critics of the Mormon cult.

(If only all such Christians would befriend Mormons & "risk" telling them the truth...in detail...our Christian churches would be lined with ex-Mormons...Now obviously MANY ex-Mormons DO wind up in Christian churches...still, far too many ex-Mormons wind up in the dustbin of atheism)

6 posted on 04/09/2013 5:35:47 PM PDT by Colofornian (If BoM is everlasting gospel, why no god as exalted man, 3 glorious degrees, men becoming gods, etc?)
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To: All
Mormon Stories is a Web site run by a Mormon (John Dehlin), among others.

Here's a 2012 podcast interview you can listen to between Dehlin and Grant Palmer: Grant Palmer on Sexual Allegations Against Joseph Smith, William and Jane Law, and His Resignation

7 posted on 04/09/2013 5:40:34 PM PDT by Colofornian (If BoM is everlasting gospel, why no god as exalted man, 3 glorious degrees, men becoming gods, etc?)
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To: All
ALL: Ya need to know who Grant Palmer is...he is a former LDS Church Educational System Institute Director & teacher...Here is an interview where Palmer discusses his journey within Mormonism -- which he left -- and his view of Jesus:
Episode 130: Grant Palmer
8 posted on 04/09/2013 5:44:19 PM PDT by Colofornian (If BoM is everlasting gospel, why no god as exalted man, 3 glorious degrees, men becoming gods, etc?)
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To: Colofornian

With all due respect I must say that I greatly appreciate your hard work here on the forums, however many of us do not become Atheists, rather Deists with an eye single to the glory of a certain higher being. It is the controlling aspects of all organized religion that many of us are against.

Just my certain humble opinion.


9 posted on 04/09/2013 5:50:43 PM PDT by Utah Binger (Southern Utah where the world comes to see America)
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To: All
This ex-Mormon explains how the LDS church as a "franchise" of sorts uses financial-legal entanglements to keep its leaders in line (in case they are ever "tempted" to leave the bee hive):

I've suspected that the cult used some kind of legal means to keep people quiet. Perhaps giving them loans that can be called due of they step out of line. Can you tell us more about this point? May dad was a church employee for 20 years before he left. I myself did a bit of consulting for them 15 years ago. This is what I have learned myself: Intellectual reserve, the legal proprietary arm of the church, makes you sign a contract. You cannot disclose what you did for them, how much you were paid or that you were hired as a contractor (I was). You cannot keep copies of the work, talk or publish it, it is owned it its entirety by the church. General authorities (I don't know of this applies to 2nd quorum of the 70's) sign over their property over to a trust, if you violate your contract they keep your property. What I have researched and heard from other ex- leaders: Since the time of BY, the church "lends" money to GA's for personal projects. This money is interest free and does not have to be repaid (this is for legal, tax and doctrinal reasons) if you tow the line. If you step out of line it becomes due and it is a lien on your property. Any income from sitting on boards, as director, consultant, etc- which is what the 12 spend most of their time doing, you keep, if you leave, since you are a representative of the church on those boards, you lose and may have to pay back. of course you loose your "living expenses" (60-120K), your access to church property for personal use (Hawaii, Florida, Europe, etc) This is how a "humble" life long seminary teacher (BKP) or meager church employee (GBH) can end up as millionaires as pass on significant wealth to family members. If you step out of line, its all gone and you are in serious legal trouble.

Source: Poster 'Jiminy Cricket' @ ExMormon.org: April 9, 2013 Recovery from Mormonism thread entitled: 'Do the GAs believe it? Here's one person's opinion'

10 posted on 04/09/2013 6:04:39 PM PDT by Colofornian (If BoM is everlasting gospel, why no god as exalted man, 3 glorious degrees, men becoming gods, etc?)
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To: Utah Binger
With all due respect I must say that I greatly appreciate your hard work here on the forums, however many of us do not become Atheists, rather Deists with an eye single to the glory of a certain higher being. It is the controlling aspects of all organized religion that many of us are against. Just my certain humble opinion.

Thanks for the counterbalance offered up, 'Binger. (I appreciate it)

And you're right...Some Lds become Christians in Christian churches; others don't ignore God's existence -- they simply have become suspicious about churches in general...given that the Lds church itself has given them such a reasonable reason for such suspicions!

11 posted on 04/09/2013 6:08:02 PM PDT by Colofornian (If BoM is everlasting gospel, why no god as exalted man, 3 glorious degrees, men becoming gods, etc?)
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To: All
More Grant Palmer links posted yesterday (April 8), courtesy of Steve Benson @ RFM (Recovery From Mormonism:
RFM is making an impact. First, Grant Palmer is quoted as saying GAs are personally meeting with him to confess their private conclusions that the Mormon Church is false, plus--
12 posted on 04/09/2013 6:12:52 PM PDT by Colofornian (If BoM is everlasting gospel, why no god as exalted man, 3 glorious degrees, men becoming gods, etc?)
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To: Colofornian
Here is proof of that higher being. I have to look at this every day but somebody has to do it.


13 posted on 04/09/2013 6:29:38 PM PDT by Utah Binger (Southern Utah where the world comes to see America)
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To: Utah Binger
'Binger...and the caption to go along with your picture would be God speaking thru Psalm 19:1-6:

The heavens declare the glory of God;
the skies proclaim the work of his hands.
2 Day after day they pour forth speech;
night after night they reveal knowledge.
3 They have no speech, they use no words;
no sound is heard from them.
4 Yet their voice goes out into all the earth,
their words to the ends of the world.
In the heavens God has pitched a tent for the sun.
5 It is like a bridegroom coming out of his chamber,
like a champion rejoicing to run his course.
6 It rises at one end of the heavens
and makes its circuit to the other;
nothing is deprived of its warmth.

14 posted on 04/09/2013 6:34:35 PM PDT by Colofornian (If BoM is everlasting gospel, why no god as exalted man, 3 glorious degrees, men becoming gods, etc?)
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To: Colofornian

I just shared the Psalm with my friend. She has forwarded that with the image to all of her friends.

Mormon girls in Southern Utah are all in mourning today as one of their young men took his own life on Sunday morning. A sad state of affairs with young Mormon men here in Kane County where there have been about ten suicides in the last five years. Mormon men age 25-35.

I hope this Psalm has comfort.


15 posted on 04/09/2013 7:42:43 PM PDT by Utah Binger (Southern Utah where the world comes to see America)
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To: Colofornian

wow


16 posted on 04/09/2013 7:55:47 PM PDT by svcw (If you are dead when your heart stops, why aren't you alive when it starts.)
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To: greyfoxx39

>> “...it was the imperative duty of the Church to obey the word of Joseph Smith, or the presidency, without question or inquiry, and that if there were any that would not, they should have their throats cut from ear [to] ear.” <<

.
Is there any question that Smith and Young are burning in Hell?


17 posted on 04/09/2013 8:11:35 PM PDT by editor-surveyor (Freepers: Not as smart as I'd hoped they'd be)
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To: svcw

You could at least have capitalized the ‘W’ :o)


18 posted on 04/09/2013 8:13:30 PM PDT by editor-surveyor (Freepers: Not as smart as I'd hoped they'd be)
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To: Utah Binger

>> “ It is the controlling aspects of all organized religion that many of us are against.” <<

.
So is Yeshua!

He called them “Nicolaitanos” and said that he hated them.

Yeshua’s church is wherever two or more are gathered in his name. You can be one of them without the threat of control, by just believing in him.


19 posted on 04/09/2013 8:20:44 PM PDT by editor-surveyor (Freepers: Not as smart as I'd hoped they'd be)
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To: Colofornian

This is huge and should adversely affect church membership but will it? Doubtful.

The leadership admitting that their founding “prophet” was a fraud. WOW!!

(All caps on the “WOW” with double exclamation points!!)


20 posted on 04/09/2013 8:21:52 PM PDT by Graybeard58 (_.. ._. .. _. _._ __ ___ ._. . ___ ..._ ._ ._.. _ .. _. .)
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To: Graybeard58
It is part of the process of going main stream. It will be fun to watch the lies and cover ups and how they will move to a Trinitarian based Bible faith. They will act as if it is all natural and all the BOM and Joe Smith never happened...
21 posted on 04/09/2013 8:24:58 PM PDT by ejonesie22 (8/30/10, the day Truth won.)
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To: Colofornian
Also, that none of the Twelve want to discuss “truth issues,” meaning issues regarding the foundational claims of the church.

So THIS is why any question sent their direction always get batted back down to the lower levels!

22 posted on 04/10/2013 3:32:31 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Colofornian; teppe
...that Hugh B. Brown did not believe the Book of Abraham was what the church said it was” ...

Heck; ANYone with two or more functioning brain cells to rub together 'believeth not' as well!



Right; teppe??

23 posted on 04/10/2013 3:35:53 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: greyfoxx39
The modern dissenters better be praying that there are no Danites or Porter Rockwells to do the work of the leaders.

The ones that make the news seem to be freelancers.

24 posted on 04/10/2013 3:37:06 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: greyfoxx39
- Elder John D. Lee (1812 – 1877), Danite and adopted son of Brigham Young, John D. Lee Diaries




"I am a true believer in the gospel of Jesus Christ, I do not believe everything that is now being taught and practiced by Brigham Young.

 I do not care who hears it. It is my last word - it is so.

 I believe he is lead­ing the people astray, downward to destruction.

 But I believe in the gospel that was taught in its purity by Joseph Smith, in former days.

 I have my reasons for it.

 

"I studied to make this man's [Brigham Young] will my pleasure for thirty years.

See, now, what I have come to this day!

 

"I have been sacrificed in a cowardly, dastardly manner." (Lee enun­ciated this sentence with marked emphasis.)

 

 

Excerpted from -->  http://law2.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/mountainmeadows/leeexecution.html

25 posted on 04/10/2013 3:38:48 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Utah Binger
It is the controlling aspects of all organized religion that many of us are against.

I agree with you!

With only one exception: As long as the 'controlling' is along what the bible CLEARLY teaches; then I can put up with it.

I want a LEADER in my church; not a CONTROLLER.


Sadly; many church's leaders these days think they NEED to be a controller, too.

26 posted on 04/10/2013 3:42:52 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Colofornian
Some Lds become Christians in Christian churches; others don't ignore God's existence -- they simply have become suspicious about churches in general

One doesn't have to be only LDS to become disenchanted with 'church'.

There are zillions of folks that have been hurt by 'church' and will NEVER darken it's doors again.


Woe to whom the disenchantment has come!


Matthew 18:6

"If anyone causes one of these little ones--those who believe in me--to stumble, it would be better for them to have a large millstone hung around their neck and to be drowned in the depths of the sea.

27 posted on 04/10/2013 3:47:23 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Utah Binger

The ONLY way to improve that is with GOATs!


28 posted on 04/10/2013 3:48:13 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Colofornian
If I recollect; that used to be on Kolb Studio in the Grand canyon.

In my searching this morning, I could not find it; but DID find these...


Hermit's Rest - Grand Canyon
 
 
Kolb Studio - Grand Canyon
 
 
 
 

29 posted on 04/10/2013 4:13:18 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: editor-surveyor
Is there any question that Smith and Young are burning in Hell?

If they ain't; then it looks like the SLC Mormons WILL be!!!!


"Now if any of you will deny the plurality of wives, and continue to do so, I promise that you will be damned;

and I will go still further and say, take this revelation, or any other revelation that the Lord has given,

and deny it in your feelings, and I promise that you will be damned.

Brigham Young - JoD 3:266 (July 14, 1855)

30 posted on 04/10/2013 4:21:12 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: editor-surveyor
OR shown where it came from!!




 
THE
DOCTRINE AND COVENANTS
OF THE CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST OF LATTER-DAY SAINTS
SECTION 89
 
Revelation given through Joseph Smith the Prophet, at Kirtland, Ohio, February 27, 1833. HC 1: 327–329. As a consequence of the early brethren using tobacco in their meetings, the Prophet was led to ponder upon the matter; consequently he inquired of the Lord concerning it. This revelation, known as the Word of Wisdom, was the result. The first three verses were originally written as an inspired introduction and description by the Prophet.
 
1–9, Use of wine, strong drinks, tobacco, and hot drinks proscribed; 10–17, Herbs, fruits, flesh, and grain are ordained for the use of man and of animals; 18–21, Obedience to gospel law, including the Word of Wisdom, brings temporal and spiritual blessings.
 
  1 A aWord OF Wisdom, for the benefit of the council of high priests, assembled in Kirtland, and the church, and also the saints in Zion—
  2 To be sent greeting; not by commandment or constraint, but by revelation and the aword of wisdom, showing forth the order and bwill of God in the temporal salvation of all saints in the last days—
  3 Given for a principle with apromise, adapted to the capacity of the bweak and the weakest of all csaints, who are or can be called saints.
  4 Behold, verily, thus saith the Lord unto you: In consequence of aevils and designs which do and will exist in the hearts of bconspiring men in the last days, I have cwarned you, and forewarn you, by giving unto you this word of wisdom by revelation—
  5 That inasmuch as any man adrinketh bwine or strong drink among you, behold it is not good, neither meet in the sight of your Father, only in assembling yourselves together to offer up your sacraments before him.
  6 And, behold, this should be wine, yea, apure wine of the grape of the vine, of your own make.
  7 And, again, astrong drinks are not for the belly, but for the washing of your bodies.
  8 And again, tobacco is not for the abody, neither for the belly, and is not good for man, but is an herb for bruises and all sick cattle, to be used with judgment and skill.
  9 And again, hot drinks are not for the body or belly.
  10 And again, verily I say unto you, all wholesome aherbs God hath ordained for the constitution, nature, and use of man—
  11 Every herb in the season thereof, and every fruit in the season thereof; all these to be used with aprudence and bthanksgiving.
  12 Yea, aflesh also of bbeasts and of the fowls of the air, I, the Lord, have ordained for the use of man with thanksgiving; nevertheless they are to be used csparingly;
  13 And it is pleasing unto me that they should not be aused, only in times of winter, or of cold, or bfamine.
  14 All agrain is ordained for the use of man and of beasts, to be the staff of life, not only for man but for the beasts of the field, and the fowls of heaven, and all wild animals that run or creep on the earth;
  15 And athese hath God made for the use of man only in times of famine and excess of hunger.
  16 All grain is good for the afood of man; as also the bfruit of the vine; that which yieldeth fruit, whether in the ground or above the ground—
  17 Nevertheless, wheat for man, and corn for the ox, and oats for the horse, and rye for the fowls and for swine, and for all beasts of the field, and barley for all useful animals, and for mild drinks, as also other grain.
  18 And all saints who remember to keep and do these sayings, walking in obedience to the commandments, ashall receive bhealth in their navel and marrow to their bones;
  19 And shall afind bwisdom and great ctreasures of dknowledge, even hidden treasures;
  20 And shall arun and not be bweary, and shall walk and not faint.
  21 And I, the Lord, give unto them a promise, that the adestroying angel shall bpass by them, as the children of Israel, and not slay them. Amen.



31 posted on 04/10/2013 4:22:19 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: editor-surveyor
You can be one of them without the threat of control, by just believing in him.

What's up with all this CONTROL you hateful bigots are ranting about?

Simple rules to follow is NOT control!!!

--MormonDude(My bishop SAID so!)




The Rules

  1. Learn and obey all missionary rules.
  2. Keep your thoughts, words, and actions in harmony with the gospel message.
  3. Read only books, magazines, and other material authorized by the Church.
  4. Don't debate or argue.
  5. Center your mind on your mission.
  6. Dress conservatively. Elders: white shirts, conservative ties, and business suits. Sisters: conservative colors and skirts that cover your knees. No floor-length skirts or dresses.
  7. Cut your hair regularly.
  8. Keep your hair clean and neatly combed at all times in the approved style.
  9. Be neat and clean.
  10. Bathe frequently.
  11. Use deodorant.
  12. Polish your shoes.
  13. Iron your shirt and business suit.
  14. Arise at 6:30 A.M.
  15. Study for 2 hours every morning.
  16. Proselytize for 10 hours between 9:30 A.M. and 9:30 P.M.
  17. Turn off your lights at 10:30 P.M.
  18. Exercise regularly.
  19. Write in your journal regularly.
  20. Follow the "Missionary Gospel Study Program" (31157) for your personal study.
  21. Regularly study the Missionary Guide and the Discussions.
  22. Attend Sunday priesthood or Relief Society meetings, Sunday School, and sacrament meeting.
  23. Attend the general session of Stake Conference.
  24. Attend general conference broadcasts if available.
  25. Avoid all other church meetings unless you have a special assignment or are brining an investigator.
  26. Proselytize as much as possible on weekends and holidays because this is when you'll find people home.
  27. End your preparation day at 6:00 P.M. and proselytize from 6:00 P.M. to 9:30 P.M.
  28. Wear your missionary uniform in public on preparation day while not engaged in recreational activities.
  29. Arise at 6:30 on preparation day and study for 2 hours from the approved books.
  30. Take care of your physical preparation for the week on preparation day: wash your clothes, clean your apartment, wash your car, get your haircut, and shop for groceries.
  31. Write to your parents every week on preparation day.
  32. Write less frequently to your siblings, friends, and acquaintances.
  33. Don't communicate with any friends or acquaintances that are within or close to your mission boundaries, except as a part of official mission business.
  34. Plan safe, wholesome, and uplifting activities for preparation day.
  35. Stay with your companion during all activities.
  36. Do not go on road trips.
  37. Do not leave your assigned area without permission
  38. Do not watch television.
  39. Do not view unauthorized videocassettes.
  40. Do not listen to the radio.
  41. Do not listen to unauthorized audiocassettes or CD’s.
  42. Do not participate in musical groups.
  43. Do not participate in athletic teams.
  44. Do not sponsor athletic teams.
  45. Do not engage in contact sports.
  46. Do not engage in water sports.
  47. Do not engage in winter sports.
  48. Do not engage in motorcycling.
  49. Do not engage in horseback riding.
  50. Do not engage in mountain climbing.
  51. Do not embark on a private boat.
  52. Do not embark in a private airplane.
  53. Do not handle firearms.
  54. Do not handle explosives.
  55. Do not swim.
  56. Do not play full court basketball.
  57. Do not play basketball in leagues.
  58. Do not play basketball in tournaments.
  59. You may play half-court basketball.
  60. Never be alone.
  61. Seek advice from your mission president if your companion is "having difficulties".
  62. Be loyal to your companion.
  63. Ask your mission president for help if your companion doesn’t obey the rules.
  64. Pray with your companion every day.
  65. Study with your companion every day.
  66. Plan your work with your companion every day.
  67. Take time at least once a week for companionship inventory.
  68. Seek to be one in spirit and purpose and help each other succeed.
  69. Always address your companion as Elder or Sister.
  70. Sleep in the same bedroom as your companion.
  71. Do not sleep in the same bed as your companion.
  72. Do not arise before your companion.
  73. Do not retire after your companion. (apparently, being together is more important than getting the correct amount of sleep that your unique body requires.)
  74. Frequently study with your companion the Missionary Guide section on companions.
  75. Never be alone with anyone of the opposite sex.
  76. Never associate inappropriately with anyone of the opposite sex (conversely, they don't mention whether or not it is against the rules to associate inappropriately with anyone of the same sex).
  77. Do not flirt.
  78. Do not date.
  79. Do not communicate via phone or letter with anyone of the opposite sex living within or near mission boundaries.
  80. Do not visit a single or divorced person of the opposite sex unless accompanied by a couple or another adult member of your sex.
  81. Try to teach single investigators in a member’s home or have missionaries of the same sex teach them.
  82. Always follow the above rules, even if the situation seems harmless.
  83. Use the commitment pattern to get referrals from members.
  84. Keep your dinner visits with member briefs and during the customary dinner hour in the area.
  85. Remember to say thank you to those who feed you.
  86. Visit members and nonmembers only at appropriate times.
  87. Do not counsel or give medical treatment.
  88. Do not stay in the homes of people when they are on vacation.
  89. Only write letters to family members and friends at home.
  90. Do not telephone parents
  91. Do not telephone relatives.
  92. Do not telephone friends.
  93. Do not telephone girlfriends.
  94. Contact your mission president in case of an emergency.
  95. Take problems and questions to your mission president.
  96. Do not write to the President of the Church or to other General Authorities. Letters from missionaries to General Authorities are referred back to the mission president
  97. Respect the customs, traditions, and property of the people who you are trying to convert.
  98. Obey all mission rules.
  99. Obey the laws of the land.
  100. Do not get involved in politics.
  101. Do not get involved in commercial activities.
  102. Do not give any information about the area.
  103. Respect the customs and cultures of those who you are trying to convert to your own customs and culture.
  104. Respect the beliefs, practices, and sites of other religions.
  105. Do not say or write anything bad about the political and cultural circumstances where you serve.
  106. Do not become involved in adoption proceedings.
  107. Do not suggest or encourage emigration. (This rule is a bit ironic, given the now-defunct doctrine of gathering the believers to Zion)
  108. Be courteous.
  109. Provide community service.
  110. Do not provide community service that isn’t approved by your mission president.
  111. Do not provide more than 4 hours a week of community service.
  112. Do not provide community service during the evening, weekend or holidays—those are peek proselytizing times.
  113. Your mission president must approve your housing.
  114. Keep your housing unit clean.
  115. Do not live with single or divorced people of the opposite sex.
  116. Do not live where the spouse is frequently absent.
  117. Your living unit must have a private bath and entrance.
  118. You may occasionally fast for a special reason, but generally the monthly fast is sufficient.
  119. Do not fast longer than 24 hours at a time.
  120. Do not ask friends, relatives, and members to join in special fasts for investigators.
  121. Maintain your health.
  122. Eat a healthy diet.
  123. Sleep from 10:30 to 6:30.
  124. Follow the approved exercise program.
  125. Keep your body, clothes, dishes, linens, towels and housing unit clean.
  126. Dispose of your garbage properly and promptly.
  127. Follow the safety rules for all of your stuff.
  128. Seek medical care if you are in an accident or become sick.
  129. Be immunized.
  130. Spend your money only on things relating to your mission.
  131. Budget your money carefully.
  132. Keep a record of what you spend.
  133. Do not spend more than your companion.
  134. Do not loan money.
  135. Do not borrow money.
  136. Keep a reserve fund of $50 to $100 at all times for transfers.
  137. Pay your bills before leaving an area.
  138. Pay cash for all resale literature and supplies ordered from the mission office.
  139. Do not waste money on souvenirs.
  140. Do not waste money on unnecessary items.
  141. Be a frugal photographer.
  142. Do not accumulate excess baggage.
  143. Obey custom laws and regulations.
  144. Pay fast offerings each fast Sunday to the bishop or branch president where you serve.
  145. Pay tithing on outside sources of income (i.e. interest) to your home bishop or branch president.
  146. Evaluate your funds a few months before the end of your mission. If you have more than you need, ask that less be sent so that you can return home without excess money.
  147. Do not drive without a license.
  148. Drive only Church-owned vehicles.
  149. Do not drive members’ cars.
  150. Do not drive nonmembers’ cars.
  151. Do not give rides to members or investigators in Church-owned cars.
  152. Use cars only on approved mission business.
  153. Use cars only within the assigned geographical area.
  154. Be conscious of safety at all times.
  155. Drive defensively.
  156. Wear your seat belt.
  157. Pray for the Lord’s protection while driving.
  158. If your companion is driving, assist him or her.
  159. Do not tamper with the vehicle’s odometer.
  160. Know bicycle safety rules.
  161. Use extreme caution on your bicycle.
  162. Do not ride your bicycle after dark.
  163. Do not ride your bicycle in heavy traffic.
  164. Do not ride your bicycle in adverse weather conditions.
  165. Go directly to your new area when transferred.
  166. Find your new companion without delay when transferred.
  167. Have a maximum of two suitcases and a briefcase.

32 posted on 04/10/2013 4:24:55 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Graybeard58
This is huge and should adversely affect church membership but will it? Doubtful. YES!!!
33 posted on 04/10/2013 4:25:42 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Elsie
AT LAST

"At last I shall give myself to the desert again, that I, in its golden dust, may be blown from a barren peak broadcast over the sunlands.     If you should desire news of me, go ask the little horned toad whose home is the dust, or seek it among the fragrant sage, or question the mountain juniper, and, by their silence, they will truly inform you."

34 posted on 04/10/2013 4:33:16 AM PDT by Utah Binger (Southern Utah where the world comes to see America)
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To: Utah Binger

HMMMmmm...

I’ve read this... somewhere....


35 posted on 04/10/2013 4:52:07 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Utah Binger
Them Sirens did this to Pete...


http://www.metacafe.com/watch/an-wjwiJn447hbJmm/o_brother_where_art_thou_2000_pete_turns_into_a_toad/


 
http://www.moviewavs.com/php/sounds/?id=gog&media=WAVS&type=Movies&movie=O_Brother_Where_Art_Thou&quote=hornytoad.txt&file=hornytoad.wav
 

36 posted on 04/10/2013 5:01:15 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Elsie
AT LAST

"At last I shall give myself to the desert again,
that I, in its golden dust,
may be blown from a barren peak broadcast over the sunlands.
If you should desire news of me,
go ask the little horned toad whose home is the dust,
or seek it among the fragrant sage,
or question the mountain juniper,
and, by their silence, they will truly inform you."

Maynard Dixon


37 posted on 04/10/2013 5:17:31 AM PDT by Utah Binger (Southern Utah where the world comes to see America)
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To: Elsie

Sort of like a mormon Talmud!


38 posted on 04/10/2013 7:02:22 AM PDT by editor-surveyor (Freepers: Not as smart as I'd hoped they'd be)
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To: Elsie

>> “Sadly; many church’s leaders these days think they NEED to be a controller, too.” <<

.
Nico Laitanos = Control The People.

Yeshua usually gets it right.


39 posted on 04/10/2013 7:07:41 AM PDT by editor-surveyor (Freepers: Not as smart as I'd hoped they'd be)
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To: Elsie; All
disenchantment

Given that the Lds do quite well, missionary-wise, in the South Pacific...Here's a slight twist from the soundtrack, South Pacific, aptly renamed:

Some DISenchanted Evening

Some DISenchanted evening
You, like JoeSmith, may see a stranger,
you may see a stranger
Across a crowded grove
And somehow you know,
You know even then
That somewhere you'll see him
Again and again.

Some DISenchanted evening
Some demon may be laughin',
You may hear him laughin'
Across a crowded grove
And night after night,
As strange as a demon dares
The sound of his laughter
Will sing in your nightmares.

Who can explain it?
Who can tell you why?
Fools give you reasons,
Wise men never try.

Some DISenchanted evening
When you find your false god,
When you FEEL him call you
Across a crowded grove,
Then fly FROM his side,
And make him your dust
Or all through eternality you
May be in hell all alone, a bust

Once that false god has found you,
Never let him in.
Once that false god has found you,
Never make him kin!

40 posted on 04/10/2013 9:21:39 AM PDT by Colofornian (If BoM is everlasting gospel, why no god as exalted man, 3 glorious degrees, men becoming gods, etc?)
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To: Elsie; District13; All
And, based upon my last post, HOW do we know demons are "laughing" @ Joe Smith & his disciples?

Well, I have a 1938 book published by Deseret -- owned by the Mormon church. It's called Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith; 'twas compiled by a "to-be" Mormon "prophet" -- Joseph Fielding Smith.

As it relates to this discussion, there's a few interesting quotes about the after"life" from Joseph Smith:

"...you have got to learn how to be Gods yourselves...going from one small degree to another, and from a small capacity to a great one...from exaltation to exaltation, until you...are able to dwell... (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, pp. 346-347)

I deliberately left off the quote there...So, to pick it up again, Joe, "until you...are able to dwell" WHERE?

EXACTLY WHERE were the "ghost-lights" -- the demon-lights of Smith -- telling him where he & his followers would dwell???

The answer is right there on p. 347 of Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith:

"until you...are able to dwell in everlasting burnings."


"The spirits...are blessed in their departure to the world of spirits."


"Enveloped in FLAMING FIRE, they are not far from us..."

Whoaaa.

Smith must have felt the guilt gnawing at him from no assurance of forgiveness of sins; but he wouldn't let go of his "everlasting burnings" teaching late in life:

"Those who have done wrong ALWAYS have that wrong gnawing them. Immortality dwells in EVERLASTING BURNINGS." (ToPJS, p. 367)

These enchanted spirits craving their own "immortality" as false gods wouldn't let go of Smith...
...and actually occasionally told him the truth...
...as they did about "everlasting burnings"... and "enveloped in flaming fire"
...They had the last laugh at Smith's -- and his followers' -- expense.

Make no mistake, Mormons. There's a fiery everlasting pain that accompanies outer darkness. The longevity words in the Book of Mormon used to describe heaven ("everlasting," "eternal") are also used to describe hell in the Book of Mormon. However long heaven; the BoM characters concluded "ditto" about hell.

41 posted on 04/10/2013 9:30:30 AM PDT by Colofornian (If BoM is everlasting gospel, why no god as exalted man, 3 glorious degrees, men becoming gods, etc?)
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To: Utah Binger

The problem is SO bad; we have folks leaving Indiana, just to go to UTAH to DIE!!!

http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/news/56130302-78/olvera-amp-dugger-perkins.html.csp

(or not...)


42 posted on 04/10/2013 10:56:55 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Elsie

http://www.greenfieldreporter.com/view/local_story/Doctor-s-death-shocks-communit_1365555354


43 posted on 04/10/2013 12:38:17 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Colofornian
 
"...you have got to learn how to be Gods yourselves...going from one small degree to another, and from a small capacity to a great one...from exaltation to exaltation, until you...are able to dwell...
 (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, pp. 346-347)
 
 



The Doctrine and Covenants

Section 132

Revelation given through Joseph Smith the Prophet, at Nauvoo, Illinois, recorded 12 July 1843, relating to the new and everlasting covenant, including the eternity of the marriage covenant, and also the plurality of wives (see History of the Church, 5:501–7). Although the revelation was recorded in 1843, it is evident from the historical records that the doctrines and principles involved in this revelation had been known by the Prophet since 1831.

1–6, Exaltation is gained through the new and everlasting covenant; 7–14, The terms and conditions of that covenant are set forth; 15–20, Celestial marriage and a continuation of the family unit enable men to become gods; 21–25, The strait and narrow way leads to eternal lives; 26–27, The law is given relative to blasphemy against the Holy Ghost; 28–39, Promises of eternal increase and exaltation are made to prophets and Saints in all ages; 40–47, Joseph Smith is given the power to bind and seal on earth and in heaven; 48–50, The Lord seals upon him his exaltation; 51–57, Emma Smith is counseled to be faithful and true; 58–66, Laws governing the plurality of wives are set forth.

 


 

 16Therefore, when they are out of the world they neither marry nor are given in amarriage; but are appointed angels in bheaven, which angels are ministering cservants, to minister for those who are worthy of a far more, and an exceeding, and an eternal weight of glory.

 17For these angels did not abide my law; therefore, they cannot be enlarged, but remain separately and singly, without exaltation, in their saved condition, to all eternity; and from henceforth are not gods, but are aangels of God forever and ever.

 18And again, verily I say unto you, if a man marry a wife, and make a covenant with her for time and for all eternity, if that acovenant is not by me or by my word, which is my law, and is not sealed by the Holy Spirit of promise, through him whom I have anointed and appointed unto this power, then it is not valid neither of force when they are out of the world, because they are not joined by me, saith the Lord, neither by my word; when they are out of the world it cannot be received there, because the angels and the gods are appointed there, by whom they cannot pass; they cannot, therefore, inherit my glory; for my house is a house of order, saith the Lord God.

 19And again, verily I say unto you, if a man amarry a wife by my word, which is my law, and by the new and beverlasting covenant, and it is csealed unto them by the Holy Spirit of dpromise, by him who is anointed, unto whom I have appointed this power and the ekeys of this priesthood; and it shall be said unto them—Ye shall come forth in the first resurrection; and if it be after the first resurrection, in the next resurrection; and shall inherit fthrones, kingdoms, principalities, and powers, dominions, all heights and depths—then shall it be written in the Lamb’s gBook of Life, that he shall commit no hmurder whereby to shed innocent iblood, and if ye abide in my covenant, and commit no murder whereby to shed innocent blood, it shall be done unto them in all things whatsoever my servant hath put upon them, in time, and through all eternity; and shall be of full force when they are out of the world; and they shall pass by the angels, and the gods, which are set there, to their jexaltation and glory in all things, as hath been sealed upon their heads, which glory shall be a fulness and a continuation of the kseeds forever and ever.

 20 Then shall they be gods, because they have no end; therefore shall they be from aeverlasting to everlasting, because they continue; then shall they be above all, because all things are subject unto them. Then shall they be bgods, because they have call power, and the angels are subject unto them.

 21Verily, verily, I say unto you, except ye abide my alaw ye cannot attain to this glory.

 22For astrait is the gate, and narrow the bway that leadeth unto the exaltation and continuation of the clives, and few there be that find it, because ye receive me not in the world neither do ye know me.

 23But if ye receive me in the world, then shall ye know me, and shall receive your exaltation; that awhere I am ye shall be also.

 24This is aeternal lives—to bknow the only wise and true God, and Jesus Christ, whom he hath csent. I am he. Receive ye, therefore, my law.

 25aBroad is the gate, and wide the way that leadeth to the bdeaths; and many there are that go in thereat, because they creceive me not, neither do they abide in my law.


44 posted on 04/10/2013 12:42:19 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: District13

District13; I just KNOW you love the above Scripture; don’t you?


45 posted on 04/10/2013 12:43:29 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Utah Binger
 ...to the deep canyons of red rock country.     http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/news/56102190-78/wildlife-mountain-utah-goats.html.csp
 
 
 

46 posted on 04/10/2013 12:44:22 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Elsie

That is some crazy Sh!!te.


47 posted on 04/10/2013 5:20:17 PM PDT by editor-surveyor (Freepers: Not as smart as I'd hoped they'd be)
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To: editor-surveyor

Let’s just she if ANY FR mormons will comment on it...


48 posted on 04/10/2013 6:23:29 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Elsie

Not holding your breath I hope...


49 posted on 04/10/2013 9:07:15 PM PDT by editor-surveyor (Freepers: Not as smart as I'd hoped they'd be)
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To: editor-surveyor
Of COURSE not!!!!


THIS is what will happen to ya!




50 posted on 04/11/2013 6:01:37 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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