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Three Meetings with a LDS General Authority, 2012- 2013 ['LDS Church...not true' uttered by leaders]
MormonThink.com ^ | April 6, 2013 | Grant Palmer

Posted on 04/09/2013 4:52:45 PM PDT by Colofornian

Editor Comment: Grant waited 6 months before releasing this report to the public because he wanted to make sure this is what the GA believed.

In mid-October 2012, a returned LDS Mission President contacted me to arrange a meeting. Several days later, he called again and said that a member of the First Quorum of the Seventy also wished to attend. He said the General Authority would attend on condition that I not name him or repeat any stories that would identify him. He explained that neither of them, including the GA’s wife, believed the founding claims of the restoration were true. He clarified that they had read my book, An Insider’s View of Mormon Origins, and had concluded that the LDS Church was not true; was not what it claimed to be. The GA often went to the MormonThink.com website for information and there discovered my book. The Mission President said he received my book from the GA.

We have at this writing met three times. We first met on Tuesday, October 23, 2012 and again February 14, 2013 at my house. On March 26, 2013 we convened at the GAs house. Upon entering my home for the first meeting the GA said, “We are here to learn.” I recognized him. He has been a member of the First Quorum of the Seventy for a number of years. He has served in several high profile assignments during this period. The following are the more important statements made by the GA during our first three meetings. We now meet monthly.

He said that each new member of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles is given one million dollars to take care of any financial obligations they have. This money gift allows them to fully focus on the ministry. He said that the overriding consideration of who is chosen is whether they are “church broke,” meaning, will they do whatever they are told. He said the senior six apostles make the agenda and do most of the talking. The junior six are told to observe, listen and learn and really only comment if they are asked. He said that it takes about two to three years before the new apostle discovers that the church is not true. He said it took Dieter F. Uchtdorf a little longer because he was an outsider. He said they privately talk among themselves and know the foundational claims of the restoration are not true, but continue on boldly “because the people need it,” meaning the people need the church. When the Mission President voiced skepticism and named ___ as one who surely did believe, The GA said: “No, he doesn’t.” The one million dollar gift, plus their totally obedient attitude makes it easy for them to go along when they find out the church is not true. For these reasons and others, he doesn’t expect any apostle to ever expose the truth about the foundational claims.

When I asked the GA how he knew these things, he answered by saying that the Quorum of the Twelve today is more isolated from the Quorums of the Seventies now because there are several of them. When only one Quorum of the Seventy existed, there was more intimacy. During his one on one assignments with an apostle, conversations were more familiar. He said that none of the apostles ever said to him directly that they did not believe; but that it was his opinion based on “his interactions with them.” Also, that none of the Twelve want to discuss “truth issues,” meaning issues regarding the foundational claims of the church.

He said that the apostle’s lives are so completely and entirely enmeshed in every detail of their lives in the church, that many of them would probably die defending the church rather than admit the truth about Joseph Smith and the foundations of the church. The GA stated that my disciplinary action (which would have occurred on the final Sunday of October 2010 had I not resigned), was mandated/ordered/approved by the First Presidency of the Church. I said that if the apostles know the church is not true and yet order a disciplinary hearing for my writing a book that is almost certainly true regarding the foundational claims of the church, then they are corrupt even evil. He replied, “That’s right!”

The GA said the church is like a weakened dam. At first you don’t see cracks on the face; nevertheless, things are happening behind the scenes. Eventually, small cracks appear, and then the dam will “explode.” When it does, he said, the members are going to be “shocked” and will need scholars/historians like me to educate them regarding the Mormon past.

The Mission President and the GA both said they attend church every Sunday and feel like “a hypocrite and trapped.” The GA said his ward treats him like a king and when he gives firesides and speaks to LDS congregations they have high expectations of him. He would like to do more in getting the truth out besides raising a few questions when speaking and gifting my book to others when feeling comfortable. Perhaps this is why he has reached out to me. The GA is a man of integrity and very loving. Upon leaving each time, he always gives me a big hug.

Do the Following Statements Support the Disclosures of the GA?

Apostle Boyd K. Packer said to Michael Quinn when interviewing him for a history position at BYU in 1976, “I have a hard time with historians because they idolize the truth. The truth is not uplifting, it destroys,” quoted in, Faithful History: Essays on Writing Mormon History, editor, George D. Smith, (Salt Lake City, Utah: Signature Books, 1992), 76n22.

Gregory Prince, who wrote a seminal biography of President David O. McKay, related to me that when he interviewed Hugh Nibley, a professor at BYU in 1995, that “At one point in the interview he [Nibley] asked that I turn off the tape recorder, which I did. He then related a curious anecdote relating to McKay and the Book of Mormon,” indicating that McKay did not believe in the historicity of the Book of Mormon (emails exchanged between me and Greg Prince on June 22, 2005. These documents are located in The Grant H. Palmer Papers, Accn 2071, Manuscripts Division, Marriott Library, University of Utah, Salt Lake City, Utah).

Thomas Stuart Ferguson, a California lawyer, church member and avid amateur archeologist, took the Egyptian papyri that was gifted to the church in 1967 to several Egyptologists at Berkeley, and as I recall Brown University and had them independently translated. All said the papyri were common funerary rites from the Book of the Dead. Ferguson then took their statements to apostle Hugh B. Brown, and after reviewing the evidence “with Brother Brown he said that Brother Brown agreed with him that it was not scripture …. that Hugh B. Brown did not believe the Book of Abraham was what the church said it was” (Journal entry of Ronald O. Barney concerning Thomas Stuart Ferguson on 19 April, 1984. Barney, now retired, worked at the LDS Library and Archives at Church headquarters, in Salt Lake City). Ferguson also said the same to Gerald and Sandra Tanner on December 2, 1970: “Mr. Ferguson had just visited with Mormon apostle Hugh B. Brown before coming to our house, and said that Brown has also come to the conclusion that the Book of Abraham was false” (Letter of Gerald Tanner to Dee Jay Nelson, December 10, 1970, published by Modern Microfilm Co., SLC, Utah).


TOPICS: Current Events; General Discusssion; Other non-Christian; Religion & Culture
KEYWORDS: disbelievers; generalauthorities; inman; lds; mormonism
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To: Elsie; District13; All
And, based upon my last post, HOW do we know demons are "laughing" @ Joe Smith & his disciples?

Well, I have a 1938 book published by Deseret -- owned by the Mormon church. It's called Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith; 'twas compiled by a "to-be" Mormon "prophet" -- Joseph Fielding Smith.

As it relates to this discussion, there's a few interesting quotes about the after"life" from Joseph Smith:

"...you have got to learn how to be Gods yourselves...going from one small degree to another, and from a small capacity to a great one...from exaltation to exaltation, until you...are able to dwell... (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, pp. 346-347)

I deliberately left off the quote there...So, to pick it up again, Joe, "until you...are able to dwell" WHERE?

EXACTLY WHERE were the "ghost-lights" -- the demon-lights of Smith -- telling him where he & his followers would dwell???

The answer is right there on p. 347 of Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith:

"until you...are able to dwell in everlasting burnings."


"The spirits...are blessed in their departure to the world of spirits."


"Enveloped in FLAMING FIRE, they are not far from us..."

Whoaaa.

Smith must have felt the guilt gnawing at him from no assurance of forgiveness of sins; but he wouldn't let go of his "everlasting burnings" teaching late in life:

"Those who have done wrong ALWAYS have that wrong gnawing them. Immortality dwells in EVERLASTING BURNINGS." (ToPJS, p. 367)

These enchanted spirits craving their own "immortality" as false gods wouldn't let go of Smith...
...and actually occasionally told him the truth...
...as they did about "everlasting burnings"... and "enveloped in flaming fire"
...They had the last laugh at Smith's -- and his followers' -- expense.

Make no mistake, Mormons. There's a fiery everlasting pain that accompanies outer darkness. The longevity words in the Book of Mormon used to describe heaven ("everlasting," "eternal") are also used to describe hell in the Book of Mormon. However long heaven; the BoM characters concluded "ditto" about hell.

41 posted on 04/10/2013 9:30:30 AM PDT by Colofornian (If BoM is everlasting gospel, why no god as exalted man, 3 glorious degrees, men becoming gods, etc?)
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To: Utah Binger

The problem is SO bad; we have folks leaving Indiana, just to go to UTAH to DIE!!!

http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/news/56130302-78/olvera-amp-dugger-perkins.html.csp

(or not...)


42 posted on 04/10/2013 10:56:55 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Elsie

http://www.greenfieldreporter.com/view/local_story/Doctor-s-death-shocks-communit_1365555354


43 posted on 04/10/2013 12:38:17 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Colofornian
 
"...you have got to learn how to be Gods yourselves...going from one small degree to another, and from a small capacity to a great one...from exaltation to exaltation, until you...are able to dwell...
 (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, pp. 346-347)
 
 



The Doctrine and Covenants

Section 132

Revelation given through Joseph Smith the Prophet, at Nauvoo, Illinois, recorded 12 July 1843, relating to the new and everlasting covenant, including the eternity of the marriage covenant, and also the plurality of wives (see History of the Church, 5:501–7). Although the revelation was recorded in 1843, it is evident from the historical records that the doctrines and principles involved in this revelation had been known by the Prophet since 1831.

1–6, Exaltation is gained through the new and everlasting covenant; 7–14, The terms and conditions of that covenant are set forth; 15–20, Celestial marriage and a continuation of the family unit enable men to become gods; 21–25, The strait and narrow way leads to eternal lives; 26–27, The law is given relative to blasphemy against the Holy Ghost; 28–39, Promises of eternal increase and exaltation are made to prophets and Saints in all ages; 40–47, Joseph Smith is given the power to bind and seal on earth and in heaven; 48–50, The Lord seals upon him his exaltation; 51–57, Emma Smith is counseled to be faithful and true; 58–66, Laws governing the plurality of wives are set forth.

 


 

 16Therefore, when they are out of the world they neither marry nor are given in amarriage; but are appointed angels in bheaven, which angels are ministering cservants, to minister for those who are worthy of a far more, and an exceeding, and an eternal weight of glory.

 17For these angels did not abide my law; therefore, they cannot be enlarged, but remain separately and singly, without exaltation, in their saved condition, to all eternity; and from henceforth are not gods, but are aangels of God forever and ever.

 18And again, verily I say unto you, if a man marry a wife, and make a covenant with her for time and for all eternity, if that acovenant is not by me or by my word, which is my law, and is not sealed by the Holy Spirit of promise, through him whom I have anointed and appointed unto this power, then it is not valid neither of force when they are out of the world, because they are not joined by me, saith the Lord, neither by my word; when they are out of the world it cannot be received there, because the angels and the gods are appointed there, by whom they cannot pass; they cannot, therefore, inherit my glory; for my house is a house of order, saith the Lord God.

 19And again, verily I say unto you, if a man amarry a wife by my word, which is my law, and by the new and beverlasting covenant, and it is csealed unto them by the Holy Spirit of dpromise, by him who is anointed, unto whom I have appointed this power and the ekeys of this priesthood; and it shall be said unto them—Ye shall come forth in the first resurrection; and if it be after the first resurrection, in the next resurrection; and shall inherit fthrones, kingdoms, principalities, and powers, dominions, all heights and depths—then shall it be written in the Lamb’s gBook of Life, that he shall commit no hmurder whereby to shed innocent iblood, and if ye abide in my covenant, and commit no murder whereby to shed innocent blood, it shall be done unto them in all things whatsoever my servant hath put upon them, in time, and through all eternity; and shall be of full force when they are out of the world; and they shall pass by the angels, and the gods, which are set there, to their jexaltation and glory in all things, as hath been sealed upon their heads, which glory shall be a fulness and a continuation of the kseeds forever and ever.

 20 Then shall they be gods, because they have no end; therefore shall they be from aeverlasting to everlasting, because they continue; then shall they be above all, because all things are subject unto them. Then shall they be bgods, because they have call power, and the angels are subject unto them.

 21Verily, verily, I say unto you, except ye abide my alaw ye cannot attain to this glory.

 22For astrait is the gate, and narrow the bway that leadeth unto the exaltation and continuation of the clives, and few there be that find it, because ye receive me not in the world neither do ye know me.

 23But if ye receive me in the world, then shall ye know me, and shall receive your exaltation; that awhere I am ye shall be also.

 24This is aeternal lives—to bknow the only wise and true God, and Jesus Christ, whom he hath csent. I am he. Receive ye, therefore, my law.

 25aBroad is the gate, and wide the way that leadeth to the bdeaths; and many there are that go in thereat, because they creceive me not, neither do they abide in my law.


44 posted on 04/10/2013 12:42:19 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: District13

District13; I just KNOW you love the above Scripture; don’t you?


45 posted on 04/10/2013 12:43:29 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Utah Binger
 ...to the deep canyons of red rock country.     http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/news/56102190-78/wildlife-mountain-utah-goats.html.csp
 
 
 

46 posted on 04/10/2013 12:44:22 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Elsie

That is some crazy Sh!!te.


47 posted on 04/10/2013 5:20:17 PM PDT by editor-surveyor (Freepers: Not as smart as I'd hoped they'd be)
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To: editor-surveyor

Let’s just she if ANY FR mormons will comment on it...


48 posted on 04/10/2013 6:23:29 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Elsie

Not holding your breath I hope...


49 posted on 04/10/2013 9:07:15 PM PDT by editor-surveyor (Freepers: Not as smart as I'd hoped they'd be)
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To: editor-surveyor
Of COURSE not!!!!


THIS is what will happen to ya!




50 posted on 04/11/2013 6:01:37 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Colofornian

Aside from physics, a persons beliefs can only be proven to themselves. Everything else is simply faith.


51 posted on 05/03/2013 11:38:58 AM PDT by soycd
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To: soycd
Aside from physics, a persons beliefs can only be proven to themselves.

(You say that as if that was a universal truth...but if that's a universal truth, then it flatly contradicts your claim that truth stops inside a given person...in other words, you have refuted yourself...contradicted yourself...you claim in your words that a person's belief extends no further than themselves...but then you seek to apply that maxim to EVERYBODY ELSE OUTSIDE of yourself...you have no coherent worldview here...better re-evaluate it...readjust it)

52 posted on 05/03/2013 1:31:16 PM PDT by Colofornian (Jude 3: "...I felt compelled to write and urge you to CONTEND for the faith that was once for all")
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To: soycd
Aside from physics, a persons beliefs can only be proven to themselves

Prove it.

(Since you are trying, universally, to apply this maxim to EVERYBODY ELSE beyond yourself)

53 posted on 05/03/2013 1:32:33 PM PDT by Colofornian (Jude 3: "...I felt compelled to write and urge you to CONTEND for the faith that was once for all")
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To: soycd
...simply faith.

Faith doesn't = BLIND faith.

The apostle Paul said that if Christ did not rise from the dead, then a person's faith is empty. Meaningless. [See 1 Corinthians 15 on that one]

Jesus appeared to around 500 witnesses post-resurrection. Those are eye-witnesses, several of whom testified of that in their New Testament writings.

A jury doesn't have to witness a crime first-hand to find a defendant guilty...(they just have to take the eye-witnesses at their word)

54 posted on 05/03/2013 1:35:02 PM PDT by Colofornian (Jude 3: "...I felt compelled to write and urge you to CONTEND for the faith that was once for all")
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To: Colofornian

>Jesus appeared to around 500 witnesses post-resurrection.

I have read the testaments to that event. Most good people would agree that there are millions of humans suffering needlessly every day on Earth. One simple act could end it all and Mrs Jones need grieve no more.

>A jury doesn’t have to witness a crime first-hand to find a defendant guilty.

There is no jury for a crime not committed.


55 posted on 05/03/2013 2:20:10 PM PDT by soycd
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To: Colofornian

One thing I can say about all the dissenters. It is you that keeps me busy studying and researching. I probably owe some of my return to the LDS church to you all. I don’t have all the answers to every question such as the creation or the flood, but I believe God created the World. I don’t know how long ago or how. I also can’t answer all my questions about the Book of Mormon or Pearl of Great Price with certainty. I do have explanations that our plausible to me and that is good enough. My true understanding comes from living the gospel of Jesus Christ and feeling the peace Jesus promised in my life. I will never stop searching for answers to my questions, but those questions don’t prevent me from enjoying all that my Father has to offers. The children of Israel didn’t need to understand how the bronze snake saved them from the poison. They only needed to have faith and look at it. It represented our Savior and showed that we must look to him to be saved. We today also must know that we must turn to the Savior to be saved. I don’t need to know how the death and ressurection made it possible for me to cleansed of my sins. I only need to believe in the Savior and his atonement. The strong faith I have comes from following the Saviors example and letting the comforter teach me all things and bring all things to my rememberance.


56 posted on 02/11/2014 7:20:30 PM PST by Aggiewest
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