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7 clues tell us *precisely* when Jesus died (the year, month, day, and hour revealed)
NC Register ^ | April 11, 2013 | Jimmy Akin

Posted on 04/12/2013 10:41:51 AM PDT by NYer

If we put the clues together, can we figure out precisely when Jesus died? Yes, we can!

We recently celebrated Good Friday and Easter, the annual celebrations of Jesus' death and resurrection.

We all know that this happened in Jerusalem in the first century.

That separates Jesus from mythical pagan deities, who were supposed to live in places or times that none could specify.

Just how specific can we be with the death of Jesus?

Can we determine the exact day?

We can.

And here's how . . .

 

Clue #1: The High Priesthood of Caiaphas

The gospels indicate that Jesus was crucified at the instigation of the first century high priest named Caiaphas (Matthew 26:3-4, John 11:49-53).

We know from other sources that he served as high priest from A.D. 18 to 36, so that puts Jesus' death in that time frame.

But we can get more specific. Much more.

(Excerpt) Read more at ncregister.com ...


TOPICS: Apologetics; Catholic; History
KEYWORDS: crucifixion; goodfriday; jesusdeath; jesusresurrection
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
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1 posted on 04/12/2013 10:41:51 AM PDT by NYer
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To: netmilsmom; thefrankbaum; Tax-chick; GregB; saradippity; Berlin_Freeper; Litany; SumProVita; ...
Before you ask ... YES! - calendar changes, leap years, omissions, etc. have all been factored into the calculation.
2 posted on 04/12/2013 10:42:49 AM PDT by NYer (Beware the man of a single book - St. Thomas Aquinas)
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To: NYer

Which brings me to one of my hobby horses:

We already agree that our calendar is wrong, off by anywhere from 2 to 16 years, depending on who’s doing the reckoning, and further in error because of the absence of a year zero.

The more fundamental point is that God did not intend us to mark His years by the birth of Jesus.

If He had intended this we would have a Biblical fixing of the date.

Further, the day of Jesus’ birth is unremarkable as all men are born.

However, very few return from the dead, that event is remarkable, and it is the defining moment of Christianity, the very moment of proof that his sacrifice was not in vain. And the Bible gives a precise reference for when this happened!

Clearly this was the date the calendar was supposed to start!

For extra points, this means our calendar off by 33 years. That makes this 1980 After Resurrection, giving us 21 years to get our affairs in order before the real end of the millennium...


3 posted on 04/12/2013 10:47:33 AM PDT by null and void (Republicans create the tools of oppression and Democrats use them. Gun confiscation enables tyranny.)
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To: NYer; Charles Henrickson

Wow! Who knew that if you can pinpoint the exact moment when your ball-point pen was made in Hartford, CN, that annual budget report you submitted last week would be agreed to as justified by the rest of your department.

He died, He rose.

[caps intentional]
THE VERY BREATH OF OUR LORD AND SAVIOR CARRIED THESE WORDS, “IT IS FINISHED.”

Doooooooo yaneed anything else?


4 posted on 04/12/2013 10:47:38 AM PDT by Cletus.D.Yokel (*Catastrophic Anthropogenic Climate Alteration: The acronym explains the science.)
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To: NYer

I’m more interested in the day of Christ Jesus’ return.

Tomorrow would be nice.


5 posted on 04/12/2013 10:49:47 AM PDT by mbarker12474 (If thine enemy offend thee, give his childe a drum.)
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To: NYer

I know one of the gospels states he was buried without the normal spices and burial routines because it (the day of death) was on the preparation day, the day before the Sabbath. One cannot work on the Sabbath, so one spends much time getting food ready, and also being just prior to the Passover, the houses went through a ritual cleansing to make sure there was no trace of any leaven. So, I believe he was crucified on Thursday, buried without the regular burial routines, and then they went to prepare for the Sabbath and Passover which fell on the same day that year. He arose Sunday before sunrise. Days in Hebrew begin in the evenings...as in Genesis, where it states the evening and the morning were the first day, etc.


6 posted on 04/12/2013 11:09:56 AM PDT by Shery (in APO Land)
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To: Shery
as in Genesis, where it states the evening and the morning were the first day, etc.

With one exception...

7 posted on 04/12/2013 11:12:52 AM PDT by null and void (Republicans create the tools of oppression and Democrats use them. Gun confiscation enables tyranny.)
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To: mbarker12474

He is already here.... the Messiah, like the lightning in the east is seen in the west,will be seen by all, but only if your eyes are open.

I’ve often joked that the Messiah must be one heck of a big dude! In reality it is we that must be raised up in order to see him. Just as the description of the tares in the wheat parable, we have been asleep. The rapture is merely being raised up in order that you may see and realize that “He” is already here.


8 posted on 04/12/2013 11:13:05 AM PDT by tired&retired
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To: Shery
Clue #4: Crucified on a Friday

All four gospels agree that Jesus was crucified on a Friday (Matt. 27:62, Mark 15:42; Luke23:54; John 19:42), just before a Sabbath, which was just before the first day of the week (Matthew 28:1, Mark 16:2, Luke 24:1, John 20:1).

We know that it was a Friday because it is referred to as "the day of preparation"--that is, the day on which Jews made the preparations they needed for the Sabbath, since they could not do any work on that day. Thus thus cooked food in advance and made other necessary preparations.

The Jewish Encyclopedia states:

Friday, as the forerunner of Shabbat, is called "'Ereb Shabbat" (The Eve of Sabbath). The term "'ereb" admits of two meanings: "evening" and "admixture" (Ex. xii. 38); and "'Ereb Shabbat" accordingly denotes the day on the evening of which Sabbath begins, or the day on which food is prepared for both the current and the following days, which latter is Sabbath.

The idea of preparation is expressed by the Greek name paraskeué, given by Josephus ("Ant." xvi. 6, § 2) to that day (compare Mark xv. 42; Luke xxiii. 54; Matt. xxvii. 62; John xix. 42). In Yer. Pesaḥim iv. 1 the day is called "Yoma da-'Arubta" (Day of Preparation) [Jewish Encyclopedia, s.v., "Calendar"].

Read more: http://www.ncregister.com/blog/jimmy-akin/when-precisely-did-jesus-die-the-year-month-day-and-hour-revealed/#ixzz2QH5vfDyg

9 posted on 04/12/2013 11:21:55 AM PDT by verga (A nation divided by Zero!)
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10 posted on 04/12/2013 11:22:57 AM PDT by TheOldLady
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To: NYer

That is really interesting. Thanks for posting this ... I’m going to share it with my friends and family.


11 posted on 04/12/2013 11:25:48 AM PDT by al_c (http://www.blowoutcongress.com)
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To: NYer
The obvious error is in Clue 4 - Crucified on Friday. Because it says here that it was preparation day for the Sabbath. However you have not considered that there was a "high holy day" Sabbath (Jn 19:31) always at the end of Passover/Unleavened bread. This day could be any day of the week because the timing of Passover was set in place from the spring new moon.

Taking this into consideration re-aligns the days correctly and doesn't make Jesus out as a liar as the Catholic invention "good friday" does. Jesus said He would be in the grave 3 days, he would never lie. He alluded to this also as the sign of Jonah who was in the belly of the fish 3 days. And again in His challenge to the Pharisees....."destroy this temple and in THREE days I will rebuild it".....Jesus never lies!

Actually the best way to determine Jesus' death accurately would be to go back and see which spring "full moon" among those given years fell on Wednesday. I've heard there are computer math programs than can figure this out....shalom

12 posted on 04/12/2013 11:27:46 AM PDT by wesagain (The God #Elohim# of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob is the One True GOD.)
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To: NYer

By the way, Jesus must have died on a Wednesday and was rushed into the tomb by sundown, the beginning of the high Sabbath of Passover which lasted until sundown Thursday. Mary had to wait until Friday to purchase the herbs and prepare them.

She could not go to the tomb Friday night sundown to Saturday sundown as that was the regular weekly Sabbath. When she arrived at the tomb on Sunday morning, the scripture correctly reads “He had risen.” (past tense)

Like Jonah was in the whale, Jesus was in the tomb, three days and three nights. Wed, Thurs, Fri nights and the three days were Thurs, Fri, & Sat. thus Jesus actually rose Sat night at sundown. Just my humble opinion.


13 posted on 04/12/2013 11:29:42 AM PDT by tired&retired
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To: verga

It does not say He was crucified on Friday:

Matt. 27:62 The Guard at the Tomb

62 The next day, the one after Preparation Day, the chief priests and the Pharisees went to Pilate. 63 “Sir,” they said, “we remember that while he was still alive that deceiver said, ‘After three days I will rise again.’ 64 So give the order for the tomb to be made secure until the third day.

Mark 15:42

The Burial of Jesus

42 It was Preparation Day (that is, the day before the Sabbath). So as evening approached, 43 Joseph of Arimathea, a prominent member of the Council, who was himself waiting for the kingdom of God, went boldly to Pilate and asked for Jesus’ body. 44 Pilate was surprised to hear that he was already dead. Summoning the centurion, he asked him if Jesus had already died.

Luke23:54

54 It was Preparation Day, and the Sabbath was about to begin.

55 The women who had come with Jesus from Galilee followed Joseph and saw the tomb and how his body was laid in it. 56 Then they went home and prepared spices and perfumes. But they rested on the Sabbath in obedience to the commandment.

You forget. Passover week had two Sabbaths and two Preparation Days. Wed & Fri were both preparation days.


14 posted on 04/12/2013 11:36:56 AM PDT by tired&retired
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To: tired&retired

It does not say He rose on the first day of the week. It says “He had risen” and was not there.

Matthew 28
New International Version (NIV)
Jesus Has Risen

28 After the Sabbath, at dawn on the first day of the week, Mary Magdalene and the other Mary went to look at the tomb.

2 There was a violent earthquake, for an angel of the Lord came down from heaven and, going to the tomb, rolled back the stone and sat on it. 3 His appearance was like lightning, and his clothes were white as snow. 4 The guards were so afraid of him that they shook and became like dead men.

5 The angel said to the women, “Do not be afraid, for I know that you are looking for Jesus, who was crucified. 6 He is not here; he has risen, just as he said. Come and see the place where he lay. 7 Then go quickly and tell his disciples: ‘He has risen from the dead and is going ahead of you into Galilee. There you will see him.’ Now I have told you.”


15 posted on 04/12/2013 11:42:23 AM PDT by tired&retired
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To: tired&retired
You are in error. the Jewish reckoning of "a day and a night" is an idiom. it refers to any part of a 24 hour period.

Also you see the "extra" where one does not exist.

16 posted on 04/12/2013 11:48:27 AM PDT by verga (A nation divided by Zero!)
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To: NYer

It should be noted that there is no historical consensus that the Gospel of John is ordered chronologically; in fact, there are certain places where it is very certainly ordered thematically. Therefore, the year 30 AD is still in.


17 posted on 04/12/2013 12:38:44 PM PDT by dangus (Poverty cannot be eradicated as long as the poor remain dependent on the state - Pope Francis)
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To: tired&retired

>> You forget. Passover week had two Sabbaths and two Preparation Days. Wed & Fri were both preparation days. <<

There is no evidence anywhere that the Jews had two Sabbaths and two Preparation Days.


18 posted on 04/12/2013 12:40:03 PM PDT by dangus (Poverty cannot be eradicated as long as the poor remain dependent on the state - Pope Francis)
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To: tired&retired
Exactly, in the tomb Thursday night, Friday night, Saturday night. In the tomb Friday Day, Saturday day and rose from the dead Sunday morning. We call it Resurrection Sunday! Amen
19 posted on 04/12/2013 1:24:09 PM PDT by Colorado Cowgirl (God bless America!)
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To: Colorado Cowgirl

“Exactly, in the tomb Thursday night, Friday night, Saturday night. In the tomb Friday Day, Saturday day and rose from the dead Sunday morning. We call it Resurrection Sunday! Amen”

Your timeline does not fit. Mary could not purchase the herbs the day after He was placed in the tomb as it was the Sabbath. The next day she purchased and prepared them. She could not take them to the tomb the next day as it was Sabbath. She took them the following day, the first day of the week and He HAD risen. Read all the scriptures and fit them on a timeline and you will see that what I presented is the only thing that fits for our Passover Lamb. Think about it...


20 posted on 04/12/2013 2:28:57 PM PDT by tired&retired
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To: dangus

“There is no evidence anywhere that the Jews had two Sabbaths and two Preparation Days.”

DUH... Jesus was the Passover Sacrifice for Christians.....


21 posted on 04/12/2013 2:30:00 PM PDT by tired&retired
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To: NYer

The Jewish Sabbath is always on a Saturday, and being both a sabbath and a holy day, the preparation day was a Friday. So being a Friday that Jesus suffered and died is right.


22 posted on 04/12/2013 2:38:41 PM PDT by Biggirl ("Jesus talked to us as individuals"-Jim Vicevich/Thanks JimV!)
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To: tired&retired

Remember, Jesus was a rabbi. He was Jewish. The event being celebrated was Jewish Passover.

Per Wiki:
More recently, Humphreys, who holds that the “Palm Sunday” entry of Jesus into Jerusalem occurred on Monday, not Sunday, argued that the Last Supper took place on the evening of Wednesday 1 April 33.[40][41] If the Last Supper was on Tuesday (Jaubert) or Wednesday (Humphreys), this would allow more time than in the traditional view (Last Supper on Thursday) for interrogation of Jesus and his presentation to Pilate before he was crucified on Friday.

40: Humphreys 2011, pp. 164 and 168

41: Staff Reporter (18 April 2011). “Last Supper was on Wednesday, not Thursday, challenges Cambridge professor Colin Humphreys.”. International Business Times. Retrieved 18 April 2011.

Jesus Christ’s Last Supper was observed on Maundy Thursday, but Humphreys suggests it took place on the Wednesday before his crucifixion. Prof Humphreys reconstructs the date to April 1, 33AD saying discrepancies in the Gospels of Matthew, Mark and Luke compared with John’s version essentially arose because they used an older calendar than the official Jewish one.

He also says it would mean Jesus’s arrest, interrogation and trials did not take place on the same day. Hence, the author argues for re-fixing Easter Day to the first Sunday in April.

While Matthew, Mark and Luke said the Last Supper coincided with the start of the Jewish festival of Passover, John claimed that it took place before Passover festival. This has puzzled Biblical scholars for centuries. In fact, someone said it was ‘the thorniest subject in the New Testament’, he told the BBC.

Unlike Matthew, Mark and Luke who used an old Jewish calendar that was adapted from Egyptian usage at the time of Moses, John used the official lunar calendar prevalent then to come to this conclusion, he argues in his book.

In John’s Gospel, he is correct in saying the Last Supper was before the Passover meal. But Jesus chose to hold his Last Supper as a Passover meal according to an earlier Jewish calendar, Prof Humphreys said and re-fixes the Last Supper on Wednesday, April 1, 33AD, based on the standard Julian calendar.

If you look at all the events the Gospels record - between the Last Supper and the Crucifixion - there is a large number. It is impossible to fit them in between a Thursday evening and Friday morning... But I found that two different calendars were involved. In fact, the four gospels agree perfectly, he said.


23 posted on 04/12/2013 2:45:13 PM PDT by tired&retired
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To: tired&retired

The Roman persecution of the Jews after the revolt led to persecution of the Christians who were utilizing the same worship days. In order to not be persecuted, the Christians adopted many of the feast days of Mithras, the religion of the Roman army.

By the time Constantine accepted Christianity it had merged with much Mithras worship. Easter, Christmas, Sunday Sabbath .......


24 posted on 04/12/2013 2:51:56 PM PDT by tired&retired
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To: Biggirl

“So being a Friday that Jesus suffered and died is right.”

The day before Passover is also a preparation day. Thus there were two preparation days that week.

Friday crucifixion does not not fit the 3 day time line in the tomb. Read my post earlier with timeline.


25 posted on 04/12/2013 2:56:17 PM PDT by tired&retired
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To: verga

verga, if Passover began Wed at sundown, wouldn’t that make Wed. also a day of preparation?


26 posted on 04/12/2013 2:58:24 PM PDT by tired&retired
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To: verga; tired&retired

“the Jewish reckoning of “a day and a night” is an idiom. it refers to any part of a 24 hour period”

I agree and would also add that the insistence upon three full days and nights also causes trouble with other verses that say he rose on “the third day.” I suppose you could call Thursday the first day (although Wednesday would be the day He died in this theory), but even then Saturday would be the third day. But you can’t really get around Luke 24:21, on the road to Emmaus, after the empty tomb has been found on the first day of the week, when the disciples say “today is the third day since these things happened.” Sunday is the third day, not Saturday.

This is the sequence of the burial and resurrection in Luke:

Luke 23:55–24:2 And the women who had come with Him from Galilee followed after, and they observed the tomb and how His body was laid. Then they returned and prepared spices and fragrant oils. And they rested on the Sabbath according to the commandment. Now on the first day of the week, very early in the morning, they, and certain other women with them, came to the tomb bringing the spices which they had prepared. But they found the stone rolled away from the tomb. (NKJV)

There is a chapter break right before “Now on the first day of the week” which makes it easier to get away with trying to add another regular day and another sabbath day in between, but the chapter is an artificial break added after the fact. They were on the way to the tomb at the absolute first opportunity to do their work.


27 posted on 04/12/2013 3:08:22 PM PDT by Gil4 (Progressives - Trying to repeal the Law of Supply and Demand since 1848)
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To: tired&retired

The writier is correct though.


28 posted on 04/12/2013 3:55:55 PM PDT by Biggirl ("Jesus talked to us as individuals"-Jim Vicevich/Thanks JimV!)
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To: tired&retired; wesagain

Hey, guys! How’s it going?

Listen, I don’t know if you knew this, but...ahh...(geez, this is awkward!)

No, no - I’ve got it, I’ve got it. You see, while this really isn’t a caucus thread, per se, the thing is...well, it’s kind of reserved for people who want to have a rational discussion of an interesting little bit of anthropological research. It’s cool if you don’t get that, it really is - mistakes happen, and no hard feelings!

I’m going to help you out. You may not believe this, but there’s a whole community of you deep thinkers around here! I’ll give you an example - some folks around here believe that every illness - a cold, herpes, cancer, Alzheimer’s, EVERYTHING - is caused because we’re sinners. Pretty groovy, eh? (I don’t get it myself, but who am I? Silly old Catholic!) Certainly not a theological heavyweight like you two, what with all that “Cult of Mithras”/”Catholic Invention of Good Friday” stuff you were throwing around - geez, I thought I was on a discussion board with Augustine and Thomas Aquinas themselves! Anyway, the point is that there are plenty of you folks around FR, and I think you all would hit it off FAMOUSLY.

I suggest you all get together tonight, have a little tipple of Prestone, maybe handle a water moccasin or two...have a ball.

Making friends is hard, I know, so you’re welcome! Pay it forward.

All the best, HoosierDammit


29 posted on 04/12/2013 5:49:43 PM PDT by HoosierDammit (St. Vincent de Paul, pray for us!)
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Comment #30 Removed by Moderator

To: Gil4
Dies and buried Friday First day.

Sabbath Saturday, Second day

Rose on the first day of the week Sunday, Third day.

31 posted on 04/12/2013 6:35:52 PM PDT by verga (A nation divided by Zero!)
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To: HoosierDammit

What are you the hall monitor?.....shalom


32 posted on 04/12/2013 6:45:06 PM PDT by wesagain (The God #Elohim# of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob is the One True GOD.)
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To: Biggirl

Here is a summary:
The Death of Jesus
Mark 15: The Death of Jesus
33 At noon, darkness came over the whole land until three in the afternoon. 34 And at three in the afternoon Jesus cried out in a loud voice, “Eloi, Eloi, lema sabachthani?” (which means “My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?”)

John19: 31 Now it was the day of Preparation, and the next day was to be a special Sabbath. Because the Jewish leaders did not want the bodies left on the crosses during the Sabbath, they asked Pilate to have the legs broken and the bodies taken down.

The Burial of Jesus

Mark 15: 42 It was Preparation Day (that is, the day before the Sabbath)

John19: 41 At the place where Jesus was crucified, there was a garden, and in the garden a new tomb, in which no one had ever been laid. 42 Because it was the Jewish day of Preparation and since the tomb was nearby, they laid Jesus there.

The Guard at the Tomb

Matthew 27: 62 The next day, the one after Preparation Day, the chief priests and the Pharisees went to Pilate.63 “Sir,” they said, “we remember that while he was still alive that deceiver said, ‘After three days I will rise again.’ 64 So give the order for the tomb to be made secure until the third day. Otherwise, his disciples may come and steal the body and tell the people that he has been raised from the dead. This last deception will be worse than the first.”

Mark 16: 1 When the Sabbath was over, Mary Magdalene, Mary the mother of James, and Salome bought spices so that they might go to anoint Jesus’ body.

Luke 23: 55 The women who had come with Jesus from Galilee followed Joseph and saw the tomb and how his body was laid in it. 56 Then they went home and prepared spices and perfumes. But they rested on the Sabbath in obedience to the commandment.

I ask... If Jesus was crucified on the Day of Preparation, and the women went the day after the Sabbath to purchase and prepare the herbs, that day could not have been Sunday as they arrived at the tomb at sun up on the first day of the week!

There were two Sabbaths. Note in John 19:31 above that this day of preparation was for a special Sabbath, not a regular Sabbath. It is very clear that the special Sabbath was Passover. The second or regular Sabbath was Saturday and preceded the first day of the week when Mary went to the tomb to apply the herbs at sun up and Jesus WAS gone.

Thus:
Wednesday: Preparation Day for Passover (Crucifixion)
Thursday: Passover Sabbath
Friday: Preparation Day for Regular Sabbath (Purchase & Preparation of Herbs)
Saturday: Regular Sabbath
Sunday: First Day of the Week (Mary Went to the Tomb at Sun Up & He Had Risen)


33 posted on 04/12/2013 6:53:03 PM PDT by tired&retired
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To: null and void
That makes this 1980 After Resurrection, giving us 21 years to get our affairs in order before the real end of the millennium...

That's silly. Why would we need to get our affairs in order within the next 21 years just because we would be coming to the end of the millennium? This isn't another one of those 'end of the world' alarmist theories is it?

34 posted on 04/12/2013 6:59:11 PM PDT by mtg
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Comment #35 Removed by Moderator

To: mtg

Perhaps.


36 posted on 04/12/2013 7:08:26 PM PDT by null and void (Republicans create the tools of oppression and Democrats use them. Gun confiscation enables tyranny.)
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To: tired&retired
Where is your proof? Like I said, your saying so doesn't make it true.

The says he rose on the first day of the week, and the passover was on the day of preparation.

37 posted on 04/12/2013 7:33:23 PM PDT by verga (A nation divided by Zero!)
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To: NYer

I never have the patience to read these sorts of articles - e.g. Jesus’ real birthday, when the Angel Gabriel came, the real date of Easter, etc. Can someone tell me why I should concern myself with this sort of stuff when our Church provides us with a perfectly good liturgical calendar that will ensure we commemorate all the significant Biblical history? I’m not trying to be argumentative, I really am curious.


38 posted on 04/12/2013 7:41:27 PM PDT by old and tired
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To: dangus

When it comes to scripture, if you look broadly enough, there is no consensus about anything. Loose thematic and strict chronological ordering, or strict chronological ordering and loose thematic ordering are quite compatible. Strict chronlogical ordering accompanied by strict thematic ordering require both a solid mastery of a large body of material and careful selection thereof, but in the case of John, I would not rule out the possibility (I am just wrapping up teaching a course on this Gospel, so I have been giving the issue a great deal of thought-—in fact, if I had to lay money, it would be on this position).


39 posted on 04/12/2013 7:41:35 PM PDT by Hieronymus ( (It is terrible to contemplate how few politicians are hanged. --G.K. Chesterton))
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To: old and tired

It seems more interesting than attending to what we are actually meant to be doing at the moment (aka sloth)?


40 posted on 04/12/2013 7:42:26 PM PDT by Hieronymus ( (It is terrible to contemplate how few politicians are hanged. --G.K. Chesterton))
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To: verga

In case it wasn’t quite clear (and from re-reading, it probabgly wasn’t), I was agreeing with you and trying to add to the case. I replied to your post, but put both you and the person you were addressing in the “To” block. Then I sort of forgot I did that and mostly addressed him. Sorry about that.


41 posted on 04/12/2013 7:49:31 PM PDT by Gil4 (Progressives - Trying to repeal the Law of Supply and Demand since 1848)
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To: dangus

The first and last day of Passover/Unleavened Bread were days when no work was done (i.e. Sabbath), also there was the weekly Sabbath.


42 posted on 04/12/2013 8:07:39 PM PDT by Former Fetus (Saved by grace through faith)
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To: tired&retired

Uh, yeah... that’s entirely true, and entirely beside the point. We’re discussing the Sanhedrin preparing for the passover.


43 posted on 04/12/2013 8:07:51 PM PDT by dangus (Poverty cannot be eradicated as long as the poor remain dependent on the state - Pope Francis)
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To: Former Fetus

This is the insanity of strict sola scriptura revealed: the bible wasn’t written with a glossary; the very meaning of words comes from outside the bible. You want to decide that the Sabbath means something other than the seventh day of the week, so you just assert it does. And every little detail becomes a bone of exhaustive contention.


44 posted on 04/12/2013 8:26:39 PM PDT by dangus (Poverty cannot be eradicated as long as the poor remain dependent on the state - Pope Francis)
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To: Gil4; verga; tired&retired
“the Jewish reckoning of “a day and a night” is an idiom. it refers to any part of a 24 hour period” I agree and would also add that the insistence upon three full days and nights also causes trouble with other verses that say he rose on “the third day.”

Except...Jesus, himself, stated, "For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of a huge fish, so the Son of Man will be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth." (Matthew 12:40) You can't get three days AND three nights out of two nights and a day .

In Matthew 16:4, Jesus says, "A wicked and adulterous generation looks for a sign, but none will be given it except the sign of Jonah." Jesus then left them and went away.". So, what is the sign of Jonah? See Jonah 1:17, "Now the LORD had prepared a great fish to swallow up Jonah. And Jonah was in the belly of the fish three days and three nights."

If Jesus had only said "three days", I might agree with this proposed use of a Jewish "idiom", but Jesus specifically said three days AND three nights. I choose to believe Jesus rather than the traditions of men.

45 posted on 04/13/2013 12:10:01 AM PDT by boatbums (God is ready to assume full responsibility for the life wholly yielded to Him.)
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To: verga

“and the Passover was on the day of preparation.”

Verga, think about your statement. That’s like saying New Year’s Day is on New Year’s Eve. By simple definition, it cannot be the day before itself. Passover is a “Special Sabbath,” just as described in John19: 31 “Now it was the day of Preparation, and the next day was to be a Special Sabbath.”

This “Special Sabbath” should be differentiated from the “Regular Sabbath” that precedes the first day of the week.

I am not pointing these things out to prove anyone wrong as the bottom line is that days and weeks really do not matter.

My point is that we need to seek greater understanding of Jesus’s message and stop being constricted to our own legalistic interpretation in order to create our ego identity which we must diminish in the dying daily process in order to know thy Father. There is a greater message in Jesus’s words. Just as He described in Matthew 13 in the parable of the “tares in the wheat,” mankind are asleep and need to awaken in order to grow for the harvest.


46 posted on 04/13/2013 3:54:21 AM PDT by tired&retired
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To: old and tired

To Old & Tired from Tired & Retired..... (we must be related!!)

“Can someone tell me why I should concern myself with this sort of stuff when our Church provides us with a perfectly good liturgical calendar that will ensure we commemorate all the significant Biblical history?”

We seek understanding in order to gain greater understanding into Jesus’ teachings. My point in discussing this topic is merely to help others realize that holding onto rigid legalistic interpretation is exactly what the Pharisees were doing to Jesus when He healed on the Sabbath.

When we come to an intersection, we stop for the stop sign not out of fear of breaking the law and receiving a citation of wrongdoing, but out of Love for ourselves and others with whom we might injure if we do not follow the rule. The power or authority is not in the words on the sign, but in the purpose with which the sign was placed there. So it is with the words in the Bible.


47 posted on 04/13/2013 4:03:46 AM PDT by tired&retired
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To: Gil4

My bad


48 posted on 04/13/2013 4:04:22 AM PDT by verga (A nation divided by Zero!)
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To: boatbums
John 2:19 Jesus answered them, "Destroy this temple, and I will raise it again in three days." Not three days and three nights.

Luke 24:6-8 6 He is not here; he has risen! Remember how he told you, while he was still with you in Galilee: 7 ‘The Son of Man must be delivered over to the hands of sinners, be crucified and on the third day be raised again.’ ” 8 Then they remembered his words.

On the third day, not three days and three nights.

Matthew 26:61 and declared, "This fellow said, 'I am able to destroy the temple of God and rebuild it in three days.'" Again not three days and three nights.

1 Corinthians 15:4 that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures, Again third day not third day and night.

That is 4 literal verses right off the top of my head as opposed to one idiomnatic verse.

49 posted on 04/13/2013 4:16:58 AM PDT by verga (A nation divided by Zero!)
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To: tired&retired

Once agaion your saying it with out proof doesn’t make it so.
You have not supplied documentation.


50 posted on 04/13/2013 4:18:54 AM PDT by verga (A nation divided by Zero!)
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