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Let the Bible be “entrusted” to the faithful
La Stampa ^ | April 12, 2013 | Alessandro Speciale

Posted on 04/12/2013 5:10:48 PM PDT by markomalley

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To: terycarl

20,000 now?

What happened to 30,000?

Or was that 60,000?

Oh, that’s right. Catholics can’t make up their minds about how many denominations to accuse Protestantism of being.

Some consistency would be nice. It would be a start in maybe giving you some credibility when you make your absurd, baseless claims.


151 posted on 04/14/2013 6:27:03 PM PDT by metmom (For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore & do not submit again to a yoke of slavery)
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To: Salvation

Christians don’t belong to the church, the Body of Christ, they ARE the church, the body of Christ.

Therefore, they cannot leave it because they are it.


152 posted on 04/14/2013 6:32:34 PM PDT by metmom (For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore & do not submit again to a yoke of slavery)
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To: metmom

metmom wrote:

Religion doesn’t mean anything. Church membership doesn’t count. Denominations are meaningless.


153 posted on 04/14/2013 6:35:02 PM PDT by narses
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To: narses; Greetings_Puny_Humans

Making it personal much?


154 posted on 04/14/2013 6:44:08 PM PDT by metmom (For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore & do not submit again to a yoke of slavery)
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To: metmom

Tell that to all the people who have come to the Catholic Church from other denominations.

Look at yourself, who, baptized a Catholic, as I understand, moved to something else — another church? No church?


155 posted on 04/14/2013 6:45:26 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: metmom

Retreads are open to ZOT, no?


156 posted on 04/14/2013 6:55:08 PM PDT by narses
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To: Salvation

metmom wrote:

Religion doesn’t mean anything. Church membership doesn’t count. Denominations are meaningless.


157 posted on 04/14/2013 6:55:31 PM PDT by narses
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To: MarkBsnr
Now, you're qualifying things. True believers? How many churches are comprised entirely of true believers? When you wander the mall and see a church of Joe in one of the storefronts, and look inside and see what? What's in there? The preacher has what credentials? What theological training? What ensures that he (don't get me started on female preachers) holds Christian beliefs?

Luke 18:9-14 9 To some who were confident of their own righteousness and looked down on everyone else, Jesus told this parable: 10 “Two men went up to the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. 11 The Pharisee stood by himself and prayed: ‘God, I thank you that I am not like other people—robbers, evildoers, adulterers—or even like this tax collector. 12 I fast twice a week and give a tenth of all I get.’

13 “But the tax collector stood at a distance. He would not even look up to heaven, but beat his breast and said, ‘God, have mercy on me, a sinner.’

14 “I tell you that this man, rather than the other, went home justified before God. For all those who exalt themselves will be humbled, and those who humble themselves will be exalted.”

Religious or theological training doesn't impress God.

158 posted on 04/14/2013 6:56:59 PM PDT by metmom (For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore & do not submit again to a yoke of slavery)
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To: Salvation

Christ.


159 posted on 04/14/2013 7:02:27 PM PDT by metmom (For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore & do not submit again to a yoke of slavery)
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To: narses

On this thread?

However, I stand by that.

Religion is meaningless. It accomplishes nothing. All religions are on equal footing in that not one of them reconciles man to God. They are all man’s puny, futile efforts to reach God and make the man acceptable to,God, and that is impossible.

There is nothing we have the power to do in ourselves to pay the debt we owe for the sin we have committed. The only option is to throw ourselves on the mercy of the court and have the sin debt canceled because of the finished work of Christ on the cross, and having HIS righteousness imputed to us, credited to out account.

And that only happens by grace through faith in Christ. All God wants is for us to trust in and believe Him.


160 posted on 04/14/2013 7:09:01 PM PDT by metmom (For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore & do not submit again to a yoke of slavery)
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To: metmom
"Religious or theological training doesn't impress God."

But lives conformed His the Gospel do.

"A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another; even as I have loved you, that you also love one another. By this all men will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”

Peace be with you

161 posted on 04/14/2013 7:40:23 PM PDT by Natural Law (Jesus did not leave us a Bible, He left us a Church.)
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To: metmom

I will continue to pray for you.


162 posted on 04/14/2013 7:50:24 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: Salvation; metmom

Why would you feel the need to pray for someone who is a born again Holy Spirit filled Christian - and child of the most High God who just posted TRUTH?

Pray for those who gave themselves over to man made teachings - that the brainwashing they received will be nor more and they will burn those man teachings and the idolatry associated with it - and that their eyes to opened to TRUTH. Time is short - get busy!

Evil has them so you may not be successful but can be if they are truly seeking Truth. And I am a witness that The Way, The Truth, The Life can be found! Plenty already left man made teachings and it’s destruction - so it is possible - so don’t despair but chose wisely because they are out there - I have encountered many and they are eternally grateful. Seems they knew deep down that man made teachings were evil as they oppose God’s Word but they ignored it for years but finally took the leap out of the counterfeit straight into the TRUTH that God’s Word IS The Final Authority. Praise God! For HE ALONE is worthy of praise!


163 posted on 04/14/2013 9:41:34 PM PDT by presently no screen name
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To: presently no screen name
Why would you feel the need to pray for someone who is a born again Holy Spirit filled Christian - and child of the most High God who just posted TRUTH?"

"Therefore confess your sins to one another, and pray for one another, so that you may be healed. The prayer of the righteous is powerful and effective." - James 5:16

Peace be with you

164 posted on 04/14/2013 10:03:16 PM PDT by Natural Law (Jesus did not leave us a Bible, He left us a Church.)
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To: metmom
Oh, that’s right. Catholics can’t make up their minds about how many denominations to accuse Protestantism of being.

oh, it's about 20,000 or so, they come and go rapidly. I had a church called the "church without spot or wrinkle" in a house about three houses from ours when I was a child. The exact number is irrelevant, the fact that they spring up (there are two new ones in the city where I now live that have opened new store fronts in the last 6 months) is a sign that there is far too much personal interpretation of what the bible actually says. Salvation is easy if you get to choose your own road to heaven!!

165 posted on 04/14/2013 10:16:06 PM PDT by terycarl
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To: aMorePerfectUnion

However, the seal is still a mark; it is not a baggie. You may wish to look up signet ring and the wax seal.


166 posted on 04/14/2013 10:16:21 PM PDT by MarkBsnr (I would not believe in the Gospel, if the authority of the Catholic Church did not move me to do so.)
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To: terycarl
You said:

Who said:


167 posted on 04/15/2013 4:04:28 AM PDT by BlueDragon (...and then i says, "jim"... "he's dead, jim" and we all set our beebers on "stune"...)
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To: Natural Law

The prayer of the righteous is powerful and effective.”
And the righteous are born again Holy Spirit filled Christian who are the children of the most High God - who ONLY LISTEN and OBEY their Heavenly Father through His Word.
And God’s Word is their FINAL Authority in ALL things.

Anyone under man and their man made teachings this applies..”You are a child of the devil and an enemy of everything that is right! You are full of all kinds of deceit and trickery. Will you never stop perverting the right ways of the Lord?” Acts 13:10


168 posted on 04/15/2013 7:06:04 AM PDT by presently no screen name
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To: MarkBsnr

MarkBsnr, The seal in verse 13 is identified as downpayment from God in verse 14, to us, by means of the Spirit, that guarantees there is more to come. It is no idle mark. We are “sealed to the day of salvation” - thankfully!

Not sealed because of anything we have done, but because HE has paid the penalty for each and every sin for us. It is based entirely on His righteousness and not our own. I am betting His blood is sufficient payment, His righteousness will not fail. If His sinless life sacrificed through shed blood, death and His resurrection are not sufficient, there is no hope for anyone.

“Thank God for His indescribable Gift!” - Apostle Paul


169 posted on 04/15/2013 7:23:18 AM PDT by aMorePerfectUnion (Gone rogue, gone Galt, gone international, gone independent. Gone.)
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To: Salvavida; smvoice

Great remarks.


170 posted on 04/15/2013 7:30:34 AM PDT by Dutchboy88
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To: don-o; smvoice
What about the part where you declare my eternal fate? What’s your verse on that?

Individuals declare their own eternal fate. You will learn that in God's Word. So it's to whom they HEAR and OBEY where they decide their eternal fate - either GOD ALONE or man. NO ONE can serve two masters.

And don't confuse instructing with declaring.

171 posted on 04/15/2013 7:32:42 AM PDT by presently no screen name
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To: presently no screen name

I am not confused. English is my first language and I score very well in reading comprehension. Your condescension, notwithstanding.


172 posted on 04/15/2013 7:40:41 AM PDT by don-o (He will not share His glory, and He will not be mocked! Blessed be the Name of the Lord forever!)
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To: smvoice
You’ll find that in the RCC. Where tradition and the magisterium declare your eternal fate.

Now that's the truth! If I was thin skinned and rejected instruction from others and which is found in God's Word ALONE - I'd still be under man and their evil teachings - where their father/papa is man/the pope. NOW my Father is Who I HEAR and OBEY HIM ALONE through HIS WORD ALONE!

Thank YOU Jesus and PRAISE GOD I am 'in Christ' now and forever!

173 posted on 04/15/2013 7:53:50 AM PDT by presently no screen name
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To: presently no screen name
"And the righteous are born again Holy Spirit filled Christian who are the children of the most High God - who ONLY LISTEN and OBEY their Heavenly Father through His Word."

Amen, we are to listen to and obey God Who told us:

“Judge not, and you will not be judged; condemn not, and you will not be condemned; forgive, and you will be forgiven; give, and it will be given to you; good measure, pressed down, shaken together, running over, will be put into your lap. For the measure you give will be the measure you get back.” - Luke 6:36-37

"Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, so now, not only as in my presence but much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling;" - Philippians 2:12

Peace be with you

174 posted on 04/15/2013 8:27:28 AM PDT by Natural Law (Jesus did not leave us a Bible, He left us a Church.)
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To: presently no screen name; smvoice

Do you accept or reject that Christians today should receive water baptism?


175 posted on 04/15/2013 9:11:07 AM PDT by don-o (He will not share His glory, and He will not be mocked! Blessed be the Name of the Lord forever!)
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To: don-o

Do they receive just water baptism or water AND the Spirit baptism?

Big difference to a lot of people.


176 posted on 04/15/2013 9:13:25 AM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: Salvation; metmom
Tell that to all the people who have come to the Catholic Church from other denominations.

Well they have lots of room because MANY MANY left who found TRUTH with is JESUS ALONE. The CC have all those not interested in Truth but bow to man and all their idolatry, POMP and evil trappings.

Look at yourself, who, baptized a Catholic,

And God looks on her and is pleased! Baptizing a baby is where man decides who the baby will serve. Then the baby grows up and casts aside the evil teachings of man and serves GOD ALONE and lives eternally with HIM.

as I understand, moved to something else — another church? No church?

And That 'Something Else' is JESUS ALONE. We are 'in Christ' and HE 'IS IN' us and catholics are 'in a church' - a 'man made organization' designed to deceive where they don't know the difference between the counterfeit and The REAL.

JESUS ALONE is The Way, The TRUTH, The Life.

177 posted on 04/15/2013 9:21:13 AM PDT by presently no screen name
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To: presently no screen name

Yes, Jesus said “I am the way, the truth, and the life.”

He also said, “I am the living bread that came down from heaven, unless you eat this bread and drink my blood, you shall not have life everlasting.”

The real body and blood of Christ is only present in the Catholic Church — although some would argue also in the Lutheran Church, but the Lutherans are a little bit different — just enough to make their Eucharistic sacrament questionable.


178 posted on 04/15/2013 9:25:19 AM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: Salvation

The ultra / hyper dispensationalists reject water baptism and the traditional Protestant understanding and observance of the Lord’s Supper.


179 posted on 04/15/2013 9:29:33 AM PDT by don-o (He will not share His glory, and He will not be mocked! Blessed be the Name of the Lord forever!)
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To: don-o

I, like all Christians who are born again of the Holy Spirit believe what God’s Word ALONE says. If you have to ask, it means you don’t know and that’s why you submit to the teachings of man. So seek GOD’S Word ALONE, lest you be deceived. Renew your mind to what God’s WORD ALONE says and cast aside the teachings of man. No one can serve two masters.


180 posted on 04/15/2013 9:32:28 AM PDT by presently no screen name
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To: don-o

That’s almost like believing in nothing.


181 posted on 04/15/2013 9:32:54 AM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: presently no screen name; smvoice
If you have to ask, it means you don’t know and that’s why you submit to the teachings of man.

So, you refuse to answer the question. When I was a Baptist, I was taught that "in obedience to His command and in imitation of His example..."

Other Christians do it differently. There are some who flat out reject any form of baptism.

Why would you not supply that small piece of information about your belief?

182 posted on 04/15/2013 9:39:07 AM PDT by don-o (He will not share His glory, and He will not be mocked! Blessed be the Name of the Lord forever!)
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To: Salvation

It’s an example of how different belief systems come forth from supposedly the same basis.


183 posted on 04/15/2013 9:44:00 AM PDT by don-o (He will not share His glory, and He will not be mocked! Blessed be the Name of the Lord forever!)
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To: smvoice
And there are many non-denomination members of the Body of Christ who fear no Book of the God’s Word. There is nothing to fear in Jude, Matthew, Luke, Acts or anywhere in the Bible. Unless a person has no clue as to what is for their understanding and what is for their doing in this age. Going to Matthew for answers to this time of grace will never answer questions about this time. It WILL answer questions about the Kingdom, and the Messianic Church, and Israel, and the law, and prophecy. But not the mystery of God’s will in this dispensation of the grace of God.

And here lies so much of our disagreement regarding Christianity. We regard all four Gospels as the pinnacle of God's revelation to man.

184 posted on 04/15/2013 9:54:40 AM PDT by MarkBsnr (I would not believe in the Gospel, if the authority of the Catholic Church did not move me to do so.)
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To: don-o; presently no screen name; smvoice
There are some who flat out reject any form of baptism.

Which denomination would that be? I am not aware of *any* protestant/evangelical/pentecostal assembly that rejects baptism. And I am fairly conversant with hard core dispensationalists and pentecostals ... what I assume you mean by 'ultra-dispensational'...

There IS a difference in emphasis - The 'baptism of fire', the baptism of the Spirit, being the efficacious part, is thought to be more important as signatory, but I know of *no church* that doesn't practice water baptism.

185 posted on 04/15/2013 10:01:48 AM PDT by roamer_1 (Globalism is just socialism in a business suit.)
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To: Greetings_Puny_Humans
“Nice to see the confirmation as to your status. Mind stating your former screen name(s)?”

Nice seeing how, under pressure, you turn to accusations and claims of anti-Catholic bigotry, even when you don’t dispute the details of the statements given.

Don't wish to give us your former screen name?

“Only if you persist in that belief. At the hour of your death, that is what God will take and Judge you with.”

Php 1:6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:

I’ll be confident that what God has begun in me, He will finish. The faith that I have, as has been related over and over again, is not my own work, but God who revealed Himself to me, as He does all believers.

Confidence, hope, perseverance. Not surety. Run the race until the end. Remember the parable of the fig tree. If it produces no fruit, it will be cut down.

What need I to fear, I who loves God, by the grace of God, and loves man, by the working of God? Faith and works, inevitably, must bow to grace. These works are a reality, but they are only the fruit of what God has begun. Salvation, therefore, is by grace alone, by faith alone, without the working of the law.

Nowhere in Scripture does it say 'faith alone'. That was an invention of Martin Luther.

Who cares about world views? I don’t care about the Catholic view, or of your confused views of grace. I don’t care that they merely exist. I care about Christ’s view. Make an argument, don’t just tell me you have an opinion. Use the scripture, be serious, show me how A leads to B. Defend yourself, don’t just attack me.

I don't need to defend myself. I am serious and use Scripture in context. I don't just trot out unconnected snippets and point to them as proofs without any connection to the arguments that I am making.<

You may wish to switch to Christianity at some point.”

Says the guy who has not yet made one argument using the scripture.

Interesting. The words of Jesus and Paul are not Scripture. May I enquire what your scripture consists of?

186 posted on 04/15/2013 10:07:00 AM PDT by MarkBsnr (I would not believe in the Gospel, if the authority of the Catholic Church did not move me to do so.)
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To: don-o
LOL! The fact that both the Western and Eastern churches have a feast day for these two nuts is kinda the cherry on top.

Yes. The two greatest Apostles were less than exemplary. One was a rabble rouser; the other denied Christ three times even after Christ told him that he would. Yet they are the humans on which Christ depended most to begin His Church.

187 posted on 04/15/2013 10:09:47 AM PDT by MarkBsnr (I would not believe in the Gospel, if the authority of the Catholic Church did not move me to do so.)
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To: aMorePerfectUnion
Some additional great thoughts on Ephesians 1:13,14... (from some old friends)

Very good.

The word “seal” indicates security (Matt. 27:66; Eph. 4:30), authentication and approval (John 6:27), certification of genuineness (John 3:33), and identification of ownership (2 Cor. 1:22; Rev. 7:2; 9:4). God is the One who seals, Christ is the sphere in which the seal is done, and the Holy Spirit is the instrument of the seal.

Agreed; but on the part of the one doing the sealing (God). This is the mark of God put upon individual men. The men may remove that mark - it is not indelible.

The Holy Spirit who seals is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance. The “deposit” is more than a pledge which could be returned; it is a down payment with a guarantee of more to come (cf. “the firstfruits of the Spirit,” Rom. 8:23). “A deposit guaranteeing” translates the Greek arrabōn (used elsewhere in the NT only in 2 Cor. 1:22; 5:5). It guarantees believers’ “inheritance” of salvation and heaven (cf. 1 Peter 1:4). (See comments on “inheritance” in Eph. 1:18.) In essence, the “deposit” of the Holy Spirit is a little bit of heaven in believers’ lives with a guarantee of much more yet to come.

1:14b. The believer is sealed with the Holy Spirit until the redemption (apolytrōsin; of those who are God’s possession. This redemption is not release from the guilt of sin; that was spoken of in Ephesians 1:7 and the believer is already “God’s possession.” Instead, this is the believer’s ultimate, final release from the presence of sin (cf. Rom. 8:23b; Phil. 3:20–21). The Greek word for “possession” (peripoiēsis) is also used in 1 Thessalonians 5:9; 2 Thessalonians 2:14; Hebrews 10:39 (see comments there); and 1 Peter 2:9. Again the doxological refrain, to the praise of His glory, is repeated here as it was after the description of the work of the Father (Eph. 1:6) and of the Son (v. 12).

Unless the believer rejects that seal at some point, effectively removing it.

188 posted on 04/15/2013 10:14:07 AM PDT by MarkBsnr (I would not believe in the Gospel, if the authority of the Catholic Church did not move me to do so.)
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To: narses
Yep. Any ideas?

I have a couple of individuals in mind.

189 posted on 04/15/2013 10:15:10 AM PDT by MarkBsnr (I would not believe in the Gospel, if the authority of the Catholic Church did not move me to do so.)
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To: aMorePerfectUnion
MarkBsnr, The seal in verse 13 is identified as downpayment from God in verse 14, to us, by means of the Spirit, that guarantees there is more to come. It is no idle mark. We are “sealed to the day of salvation” - thankfully!

God is faithful to us; it is we men that may be unfaithful to God. Remember that even St Paul was concerned about losing his salvation.

Not sealed because of anything we have done, but because HE has paid the penalty for each and every sin for us. It is based entirely on His righteousness and not our own. I am betting His blood is sufficient payment, His righteousness will not fail. If His sinless life sacrificed through shed blood, death and His resurrection are not sufficient, there is no hope for anyone.

Agreed with the caveat that it is possible to lose one's salvation by rejecting God.

190 posted on 04/15/2013 10:18:11 AM PDT by MarkBsnr (I would not believe in the Gospel, if the authority of the Catholic Church did not move me to do so.)
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To: Salvation
The real body and blood of Christ is only present in the Catholic Church

JESUS shed ALL His Blood and has a spiritual body now which has no blood. So it is NOT Christ who is present in the CC - take it as a clue as why so many have left.

The deceived still have HIM on the Cross - Christians KNOW HE IS RISEN and they rebuke the deception of those who still have HIM on the Cross. Only satan/deception/the counterfeit wants JESUS still on the Cross.

As Christianity is ALL about The Risen Christ!

although some would argue also in the Lutheran Church, but the Lutherans are a little bit different

Only catholics argue about denominations. Born again CHRISTIANS know It's ALL ABOUT JESUS The Word Who became flesh, died for our sins and ROSE again to be with HIS FATHER and HIS Spirit lives within 'His Own' now and forever! Praise GOD for HE is the ONLY ONE worthy of praise!

191 posted on 04/15/2013 10:32:44 AM PDT by presently no screen name
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To: roamer_1

http://new.bereanbiblesociety.org/bullingerism-or-ultradispensationalism/

. I believe that Israel was set aside as a nation, after Acts 28, and that they ceased then to have priority rights. As the Jews required a sign, signs ceased at the close of Acts. And as water baptism that Christ might be made manifest to Israel, I believe that water baptism ceased the close of Acts with the sign gifts.


192 posted on 04/15/2013 10:37:49 AM PDT by don-o (He will not share His glory, and He will not be mocked! Blessed be the Name of the Lord forever!)
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To: don-o
So, you refuse to answer the question

It's more like you refuse to seek the God's Word for the answer. The same place where Christians seek for TRUTH.

Why would you not supply that small piece of information about your belief?

What part of my belief that it is in JESUS ALONE - HIS WORD ALONE is so difficult to grasp? Has man made teachings so brain washed the mind that it is no longer able to understand and believe what Jesus says 'I AM THE WAY, THE TRUTH, THE LIFE" No one comes to The Father except through ME.'?

193 posted on 04/15/2013 10:49:55 AM PDT by presently no screen name
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To: presently no screen name
"take it as a clue as why so many have left."

It is true that many have left, but many more have joined and the Catholic Church continues to grow.

Not everyone who cries Lord, Lord will see the Kingdom of God. Of His chosen Apostles one betrayed Him, one persecuted Him, one doubted Him and one denied Him, but He forgave all of those who repented and sought His forgiveness.

I had a Theology professor who said; 'We are at all times surrounded by a spiritual battle between good and evil. If you do not believe this you are on the wrong side'. Take as you allies in this battle those of us who love God with all of our hearts, all of our souls and all of our minds. Do not look for the small errors in doctrine or in the capacity for reason and understanding to erase Christian unity. Look past those and instead for the Fruits of the Holy Spirit.

"If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal. And if I have prophetic powers, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. If I give away all I have, and if I deliver my body to be burned but have not love, I gain nothing.

Love is patient and kind; love is not jealous or boastful; it is not arrogant or rude. Love does not insist on its own way; it is not irritable or resentful; it does not rejoice at wrong, but rejoices in the right. Love bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.

Love never ends; as for prophecies, they will pass away; as for tongues, they will cease; as for knowledge, it will pass away. For our knowledge is imperfect and our prophecy is imperfect; but when the perfect comes, the imperfect will pass away. When I was a child, I spoke like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child; when I became a man, I gave up childish ways. For now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall understand fully, even as I have been fully understood. So faith, hope, love abide, these three; but the greatest of these is love. - 1 Corinthians 13:1-13

Remember that when we gather in this forum in His name he is here with us.

Peace be with you

194 posted on 04/15/2013 10:50:24 AM PDT by Natural Law (Jesus did not leave us a Bible, He left us a Church.)
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To: presently no screen name; smvoice

What does the Bible tell you about water baptism?


195 posted on 04/15/2013 10:59:56 AM PDT by don-o (He will not share His glory, and He will not be mocked! Blessed be the Name of the Lord forever!)
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To: don-o

I will not deny you the privilege and honor of opening God’s Word and seeking for yourself as you were commanded to do! Be thankful we have THE WORD OF GOD and able to learn TRUTH for ourselves and not by man but by The Spirit of God!


196 posted on 04/15/2013 11:15:38 AM PDT by presently no screen name
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To: don-o

Ahh. Bullingerism. it seems your ‘some’ is a tempest in a teapot.


197 posted on 04/15/2013 11:19:24 AM PDT by roamer_1 (Globalism is just socialism in a business suit.)
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To: roamer_1

Should not those who hold to that belief own up to it?


198 posted on 04/15/2013 11:21:12 AM PDT by don-o (He will not share His glory, and He will not be mocked! Blessed be the Name of the Lord forever!)
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To: Natural Law
I had a Theology professor

I HAVE JESUS and HE trumps man EVERY time, ALL the time. So I listen to Jesus ALONE ALL the time.

But it is amusing to see catholics scrambling about picking and chosen Scripture from God's Word 'trying' to give the counterfeit credibility. It's no surprise you don't post from the counterfeit catechism which is the authority of Rome that catholics submit to - they are ashamed of it themselves!

199 posted on 04/15/2013 11:37:13 AM PDT by presently no screen name
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To: MarkBsnr

“Yes. Unlike some of our antagonists, I think that we understand that there are requirements given to Christians and that they are required to follow them.”


These “requirements,” of course, in you view, aren’t REALLY the following:

Joh 6:28-29 Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God? (29) Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

Mar 12:30-31 And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment. (31) And the second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these.

Gal_5:14 For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

Jas_2:8 If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well:

Because the actual charge is, “you do not do what is required... which is being in the Roman Catholic Church and obeying it.” If you were truly a great moralizer, calling people to the requirements of religion, there would be no conlict here with he Romans being so outraged. You would instead ask us to have faith in God, and “love your neighbour as yourself,” for in these things one fulfills the royal law, according to Christ and all of the Apostles. No mention here of bowing and scraping for the scraps offered by the Roman pontiff. And, certainly not any indication that one’s imperfections or perfections have in any effect on salvation.

Galatians 3:3
Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?

Works are certainly the fruit of the spirit, but they cannot save a man, as has been shown over and over again.

You might say, “Well, you have to attend Papist Mass to be saved!” Oh, have to? Can’t I eat and drink Christ through faith, as Augustine argued? Isn’t that how the Thief was saved, by faith alone on the cross? He knew nothing of any of the rites of the Papists, yet was saved by the perfect power of God. And what does the scripture actually say about the Lord’s supper?

Luke 22:19
And he took bread, and gave thanks, and brake it, and gave unto them, saying, This is my body which is given for you: this do in remembrance of me.

Do this in remembrance of me, not “resacrifice me and eat this bread so that you may be saved.” In fact, do you have any evidence that the Lord’s supper, from the scipture, isn’t always an actual supper of believers? Such is the way I’ve practiced it.

You say I only bring snippets out of context, but never so much as provide any data that actually shows why those quotes, and lots of them, are false. Thou Pharisee, are you not just too lazy to explain what those scriptures mean and how you reconcile them with you Romanist views, because the fact of the matter is you are more concerned with what is handed down to you from Rome than what is handed us by the Apostles?

Better yet, isn’t it your duty to explain why I ought to even believe in the Romans who, evidently, do all your thinking for you? Can you show me the infallible magisterium of the church, the unstoppable and always existent primacy of Rome, in the words of your “Pope” Gregoy, who declares that that the throne of Peter is held by three separate Bishops?

“Whereas there were many apostles, yet for the principality itself, one only see of the apostles prevailed, in authority, which is of one, but in three places. For he elevated the see in which he condescended to rest, and to finish his present life. He decorated the see, to which he sent his disciple the evangelist, and he established the see, in which, although he intended to leave it, he sat for seven years. Since there fore the see is of one and is one, over which three bishops preside by divine authority, whatsoever good I hear of you, I ascribe to myself. And if you hear any good of me, number it among your merits, be- cause we are all one in him who says, that all should be one, as thou, O Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they may be one in us. — In the Eulogy’ to the Bishop of Alexandria

Theodoret references the same belief when he places the “throne of Peter” under the Bishop of Antioch:

“Dioscorus, however, refuses to abide by these decisions; he is turning the See of the blessed Mark upside down; and these things he does though he perfectly well knows that the Antiochene (of Antioch) metropolis possesses the throne of the great Peter, who was teacher of the blessed Mark, and first and coryphæus (head of the choir) of the chorus of the apostles.” Theodoret - Letter LXXXVI - To Flavianus, Bishop of Constantinople.

I’ve asked you to address this multiple times, but you have not.

Why should I believe in Roman pretensions and arguments when 1) They provide no arguments, just assertions 2) They have no continuous tradition on the Primacy of the Bishop of Rome, only a developing tradition that took centuries to even develop to something close to what Romanists hold today. And not only on this matter, but on many matters which are utterly absent from the historical record.

So, tell me again, why I should accept your false premise, and tolerate your put-downs and your assertions, which ignore everything given to you and does not even attempt to explain the scriptures?

“Confidence, hope, perseverance. Not surety.”


Hell hound, address the scripture. Don’t just ignore it. What God has started, does he finish it, yes or no? By grace are ye saved, not of works, yes or no? Just because you will not read, and cannot make logical deductions unless approved by Rome, doesn’t mean you can get away with that in an actual debate.

“Interesting. The words of Jesus and Paul are not Scripture”


They are the scripture. Not once have you addressed any of the words of Paul or Jesus, which I have provided. Do you really seriously think that by saying something like “Look at the feg tree! I’m CATHLUCK, tarefore, it disproofs u!@#$” is an argument? How about you show us how the fig tree isn’t a metaphore for Israel, how the gentiles are not grafted in, and how people aren’t really saved by grace through faith, or how any of the scriptures I have provided don’t mean what they directly say, based on the context you affirm clearly disproves it?

Get to work, Sir Lazy.


200 posted on 04/15/2013 12:26:10 PM PDT by Greetings_Puny_Humans
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