Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Tiger Woods Fails to Prove Himself a ‘Better Man’
The Christian Diarist ^ | April 13, 2013 | JP

Posted on 04/13/2013 11:55:14 AM PDT by CHRISTIAN DIARIST

I’m a huge Tiger Woods fan. That’s why it pains me that he continues to do damage to his once-nearly-pristine image.

Having recently reclaimed his sport’s ranking as World No. 1 – as the Euros put it – Tiger flew this week to Augusta, Georgia as the favorite to win the Masters.

He acquitted himself rather well the tourney’s first two days, save for a mishap yesterday on the 15th hole. He hit an approach shot to the green that, as bad luck would have it, ricocheted off the flag pole and careened into the creek.

After taking a “drop” – which entailed a one stroke penalty – Tiger hit his next shot on the green, sank the putt and rocked on to the next hole. As it turns out, the world’s most famous golfer made an improper drop, for which he should have been penalized another two strokes.

Tiger signed his scorecard without including the two penalty strokes and left the golf course. This morning he learned of his error, which meant he signed his Friday scorecard incorrectly.

In every case I’ve ever heard, a golfer who signs an incorrect scorecard in tournament play is disqualified. Yet, the green jacketed powers-that-be at Augusta National somehow found a way not to disqualify Tiger.

And even though I had looked forward this weekend to seeing whether my favorite golfer could win the fifth Master’s championship of his career, I think Augusta’s green jackets made the absolute wrong decision.

Nevertheless, the Bible advises “that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are the called according to His purpose.”

I believe the Almighty, in His infinite grace, gave Tiger an opportunity to redeem himself in the eyes of many of those who have not gotten past his serial adultery with who knows how many harlots, which defiled his marriage and left a lasting scar upon his faithful wife, the mother of his two beautiful children.

Oh, how I hoped that Tiger would say that, even though Augusta’s powers-that-be had not disqualified him for his rule-breaking – had tempted him with preferential treatment – he had decided to disqualify himself. Even though doing so would cost him the Masters.

But Tiger did not enter today through the narrow gate, of which the Word of God speaks. He chose the wide gate, the broad way that leads to destruction.

In 2010, Tiger delivered a mea culpa in which he told a national television audience, “I am deeply sorry for my irresponsible and selfish behavior.” He promised “to be a better man.” And he confided he was returning to the Buddhist faith of his youth, which his Thai mother instilled in him.

Well, the events of today suggest that Tiger is not the better man he promised to be. And I am persuaded he will remain a lost soul until, hopefully, he comes to Jesus.

For when a man is in Christ, he is a new creature. The old things are passed away. All things become new.


TOPICS: Current Events; General Discusssion; Moral Issues; Religion & Culture
KEYWORDS: bloggersandpersonal; blogpimp; buddhism; cheater; drugs; hgh; masters; misc; rules; scum; steroids; tigerwoods; vanity
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-5051-100101 next last
“What profit is it to a man if he gains the whole world, and loses his own soul?”
1 posted on 04/13/2013 11:55:14 AM PDT by CHRISTIAN DIARIST
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: CHRISTIAN DIARIST

Learn the new rule on the outdated antiquated scorecard rule - 33-7. Augusta applied this new rule absolutely correctly.

As to the drop issue, that’s perhaps another story - but the scorecard rule has been changed for just this kind of situation.
More here: www.cedmundwright.com


2 posted on 04/13/2013 11:57:08 AM PDT by C. Edmund Wright (Tokyo Rove is more than a name, it's a GREAT WEBSITE)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: C. Edmund Wright

Why point out rules when you can trash Tiger Woods./s


3 posted on 04/13/2013 11:59:56 AM PDT by EEGator
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: CHRISTIAN DIARIST

Dumb post.


4 posted on 04/13/2013 12:00:35 PM PDT by mdittmar
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: EEGator

....indeed.....the Pharisees are out thick today.


5 posted on 04/13/2013 12:01:42 PM PDT by C. Edmund Wright (Tokyo Rove is more than a name, it's a GREAT WEBSITE)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: CHRISTIAN DIARIST

Obama is Tiger Woods.


6 posted on 04/13/2013 12:03:13 PM PDT by blueunicorn6 ("A crack shot and a good dancer")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: C. Edmund Wright

I saw the other thread further down that you posted on. A whole lot of hate and no nothings about golf. I’m the same as you as far as Woods goes, I’m not a fan or a hater.


7 posted on 04/13/2013 12:07:02 PM PDT by EEGator
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: C. Edmund Wright

Do you not agree that there are certain actions that may fall within “the rules,” or “the law,” that are, nonetheless, deserving of reproach?


8 posted on 04/13/2013 12:07:32 PM PDT by CHRISTIAN DIARIST
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: CHRISTIAN DIARIST

I really don’t understand the issue.

He dropped the ball two yards behind where his last shot was from for a 1 stroke penalty.

How is this a big cheat?

And no, I do not play golf.


9 posted on 04/13/2013 12:11:38 PM PDT by 2banana (My common ground with terrorists - they want to die for islam and we want to kill them)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: CHRISTIAN DIARIST
Do you not agree that there are certain actions that may fall within “the rules,” or “the law,” that are, nonetheless, deserving of reproach?

I do, but not sure that standard applies here at all. FIRST: The scorecard rule is a bizarre and ridiculous bureaucratic exercise now anyway, so I totally disregard that issue from a standpoint of reproach.

SECOND As for the illegal drop? I find it hard to believe, that knowing a huge TV audience was watching - and that even more would watch the replay on what was one of the most astounding bad bounces in golf history, that he would intentionally violate the rules. I think he wanted the most advantageous drop within the rules, but that is as he should.

THIRD: I don't look for pro athletes to find the utmost in over the top moral and ethical guidance. I find that elsewhere.

10 posted on 04/13/2013 12:13:07 PM PDT by C. Edmund Wright (Tokyo Rove is more than a name, it's a GREAT WEBSITE)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]

To: 2banana

The issue is explained here: www.cedmundwright.com

It is not that big of a deal. He actually suffered one of the cruellest bad bounces imaginable on what was a nearly perfectly hit shot. It cost him 2 shots - and now it’s cost him 2 more shots for the rule. I think he’s paid a tremendous penalty - and the rules violation is murky to begin with. No, I’m not a Tiger fan nor a Tiger hater - but I do hate blind ignorance and I hate out sized allegiance to bureaucratic outdated rules.


11 posted on 04/13/2013 12:15:24 PM PDT by C. Edmund Wright (Tokyo Rove is more than a name, it's a GREAT WEBSITE)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 9 | View Replies]

To: 2banana

Considering the fairway was sloping towards the green, it could be argued it was the only proper drop.

See Rule 20-1 b vi and vii

(vi) rolls and comes to rest more than two club-lengths from where it first struck a part of the course; or

(vii) rolls and comes to rest nearer the hole than:

(a) its original position or estimated position (see Rule 20-2b) unless otherwise permitted by the Rules; or


12 posted on 04/13/2013 12:15:27 PM PDT by Cvengr (Adversity in life and death is inevitable. Thru faith in Christ, stress is optional.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 9 | View Replies]

To: 2banana

2 stroke penalty,I know golf,don’t understand people who post nonsense.


13 posted on 04/13/2013 12:15:45 PM PDT by mdittmar
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 9 | View Replies]

To: mdittmar

I suspect the only thing sinking him is his admission he wanted a better lie, and then dropped 2 yards behind the original spot.

Had he dropped closer to the original lie, and it rolled under 2 yds, but placing the dropped lie closer to the pin than the original lie, then he would have been required to redrop.

Then he could have dropped from up to 2 yards behind the ball with the fairway sloping towards the pin, and played from the dropped lie.

I suspect Tiger was just in the habit of dropping behind the ball by 2 yds and in doing so was looking for the better placement.

I’m still unclear about his using his club to improve the area of swing behind the ball.


14 posted on 04/13/2013 12:19:49 PM PDT by Cvengr (Adversity in life and death is inevitable. Thru faith in Christ, stress is optional.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 13 | View Replies]

To: blueunicorn6

Tiger Woods is Obama.


15 posted on 04/13/2013 12:20:10 PM PDT by blueunicorn6 ("A crack shot and a good dancer")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: CHRISTIAN DIARIST

I’ve had Tiger’s number since the lynching of Fuzzy Zoller.


16 posted on 04/13/2013 12:20:57 PM PDT by PAR35
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: blueunicorn6

Tiger Woods is a Socialist / Marxist who has the most powerful job in the world, and he hates America?


17 posted on 04/13/2013 12:21:49 PM PDT by EEGator
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 15 | View Replies]

To: C. Edmund Wright
I hate out sized allegiance to bureaucratic outdated rules.

If you don't like rules enforced, you ought to stick to pro basketball.

18 posted on 04/13/2013 12:23:07 PM PDT by PAR35
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 11 | View Replies]

To: CHRISTIAN DIARIST
that are, nonetheless, deserving of reproach

He was reproached two strokes....He now has to finish the contest with hooting galleries and moronic comments on his mind...

Just watch the game....

19 posted on 04/13/2013 12:25:18 PM PDT by Cold Heat
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]

Comment #20 Removed by Moderator

To: Cvengr
Played alot of golf with all kinds of people,most don't know the rules and don't care.Seen alot of mistakes at the Pro level.

I always play by the rules.

21 posted on 04/13/2013 12:33:33 PM PDT by mdittmar
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 14 | View Replies]

To: Cold Heat

Yes, but by Rule 20-1

If the competitor has played a second ball, he must report the facts to the Committee before returning his score card; if he fails to do so, he is disqualified. The Committee must determine whether the competitor has committed a serious breach of the applicable Rule. If he has, the score with the second ball counts and the competitor must add two penalty strokes to his score with that ball. If the competitor has committed a serious breach and has failed to correct it as outlined above, he is disqualified.

Seems that either he must be ruled as not having made an improper drop, or he must be disqualified. Maybe the Committee made the breach in rules.


22 posted on 04/13/2013 12:34:03 PM PDT by Cvengr (Adversity in life and death is inevitable. Thru faith in Christ, stress is optional.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 19 | View Replies]

To: PAR35

I like the proper rules enforced, the ones that speak to the essence of the game. The scorecard rule did, at one time, speak to the essence of the game. It dates to a day when even in competitve golf, the players were unseen by other human eyes for much of a round. It was a totally proper rule then. It’s a bureaucratic irrelevancy now. A four stroke penalty, for what was an almost perfect shot, is damned severe and I think appropriate. Total DQ is absurd. You must be a government bureaucrat, or just a Tiger hater.


23 posted on 04/13/2013 12:34:08 PM PDT by C. Edmund Wright (Tokyo Rove is more than a name, it's a GREAT WEBSITE)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 18 | View Replies]

To: 2banana
I really don’t understand the issue.

In the history of the game of golf players have been disqualified for turning in a signed scorecard that was in error. But that same penalty was not given to Woods because he is Tiger Woods.

24 posted on 04/13/2013 12:36:51 PM PDT by South40 (I Love The "New & Improved" Free Republic!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 9 | View Replies]

To: C. Edmund Wright

Exactly right. The original article is just garbage. Rules were applied exactly correctly.


25 posted on 04/13/2013 12:38:44 PM PDT by Wyatt's Torch (I can explain it to you. I can't understand it for you.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: South40

Absolutely incorrect. Learn the new rule before making uninformed comments.


26 posted on 04/13/2013 12:40:00 PM PDT by Wyatt's Torch (I can explain it to you. I can't understand it for you.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 24 | View Replies]

To: CHRISTIAN DIARIST
He has 'Yin Sanpaku' eyes.

Sanpaku Eyes


27 posted on 04/13/2013 12:40:20 PM PDT by Bon mots (Abu Ghraib: 47 Times on the front page of the NY Times | Benghazi: 2 Times)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: mdittmar

I did learn something in this.

In pro play, say a green is cut super slick, such that the ball rarely if ever, rests on the green, but rolls off of it. The type of green where most players take 3-5 strokes,..or more,..on the approach to get in the cup.

If there is a water hazard, the smart play is to approach closest the cup with no spin, then allow the gradient on the green to take the ball off the green into the water hazard, setting a new line for the next stroke.

Then you have a new line directly along the green’s gradient to the cup. Making a much more reliable approach than any other, but not living up to the intent of it being a penalty shot with more risk than the original.


28 posted on 04/13/2013 12:40:24 PM PDT by Cvengr (Adversity in life and death is inevitable. Thru faith in Christ, stress is optional.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 21 | View Replies]

To: C. Edmund Wright

“It is not that big of a deal.”

David Duval and Nick Faldo disagree. Both have said he should disqualify himself.

He dropped farther back than he needed to to improve his shot. He admitted that in post round interviews. That is cheating. Then he did not penalize himself 2 strokes. So he signed an incorrect scorecard.

The committee decided to just change tigers score and penalize him for cheating. And ignore the incorrect scorecard. Worst ruling ever!

In 1968 Robert Di Vecenzo made a birdie 3 on 17 to get into a playoff. His partner wrote down 4 inadvertently. Robert didn’t notice the 4, signed the card and was DQ’d. But now the new rules allow the committee to only follow the rules when they FEEL like it..

Tiger could have done the correct thing and DQ’d himself and almost completely redeemed himself.


29 posted on 04/13/2013 12:41:55 PM PDT by PilotDave (No, really, you just can't make this stuff up!!!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 11 | View Replies]

To: Wyatt's Torch

What gets me is all these supposed conservatives...who know in their hearts that riduculous rules and regulations by government are anti liberty - sticking up for the most severe and now absurd golf rule over common sense - all without having any idea how intellectually bankrupt they are being. Golf realized that the scorecard rule is antiquated and overly harsh, so they gave themselves a way to mitigate it - they use that mitigation now- and people go beserk.


30 posted on 04/13/2013 12:42:40 PM PDT by C. Edmund Wright (Tokyo Rove is more than a name, it's a GREAT WEBSITE)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 25 | View Replies]

To: PilotDave

...the drop issue is one that is different than the scorecard issue...and while I respect Faldo and Duval - most golf reporters have also indicated that they doubt Faldo would have DQ’d himself under any circumstances. As for Duval, he agrees with me on the scorecard issue. The bottom line is, the guy hit a perfect shot, got a bad bounce, and it’s cost him four shots. It’s not like he skated free.

Do we want to play a game of skill within the spirit of the rules, or be prisoners of nuance and paperwork and the technicalities.


31 posted on 04/13/2013 12:44:59 PM PDT by C. Edmund Wright (Tokyo Rove is more than a name, it's a GREAT WEBSITE)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 29 | View Replies]

To: PilotDave

Right or wrong, had he DQ’d himself, it would appear such decision would have been made from the perspective of humility and not selfishness.

Even when stating he respects the Committee’s decision, relying on their ruling instead of his, implies he’s gambling for a win out of self-interest.


32 posted on 04/13/2013 12:46:15 PM PDT by Cvengr (Adversity in life and death is inevitable. Thru faith in Christ, stress is optional.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 29 | View Replies]

To: CHRISTIAN DIARIST
And he confided he was returning to the Buddhist faith of his youth...

But Jesus is the only God of the major world religions who said, "I came to bring truth to those who can hear the truth."

33 posted on 04/13/2013 12:47:59 PM PDT by Albion Wilde (Don't believe any rumors in Washington, DC until they are officially denied.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Cvengr

Depends,lateral hazard?


34 posted on 04/13/2013 12:48:37 PM PDT by mdittmar
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 28 | View Replies]

To: Cvengr
Right or wrong, had he DQ’d himself, it would appear such decision would have been made from the perspective of humility and not selfishness. Even when stating he respects the Committee’s decision, relying on their ruling instead of his, implies he’s gambling for a win out of self-interest.

Well, since he's not professing to be a Pastor, but is professing to be a highly competitve athlete, why is this a bad thing? A win out of self interest? Really. Gosh, who knew people in liberty ever acted in self interest?

35 posted on 04/13/2013 12:49:13 PM PDT by C. Edmund Wright (Tokyo Rove is more than a name, it's a GREAT WEBSITE)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 32 | View Replies]

To: CHRISTIAN DIARIST

I’m sorry CHRISTIAN DIARIST, this really was an idiotic post. The whole situation has been handled correctly by the rules committee, the officials managing the tournament & Tiger himself.

While you’re enjoying the hits on your blog, be sure to take that plank out of your eye.


36 posted on 04/13/2013 12:49:16 PM PDT by House Atreides
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: CHRISTIAN DIARIST

your post is either ignorant or arrogant....I’m still decidin


37 posted on 04/13/2013 12:49:30 PM PDT by advertising guy ( sad when the " go to guy " at FOX NEWS is Greta)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: CHRISTIAN DIARIST
Woods is not my favorite golfer, and, indeed, prior to the 15th on Friday, I hoped he would not add to his recent success by winning the Masters. There are many outstanding young golfers who, if they play well, deserve such an honor and may model better behavior for youth in America.

With that said, and considering his historical angry outbursts and profanity when disappointed in the outcome of a shot, yesterday's demeanor and restraint in proceeding from what must have been deep frustration, which enabled him to continue with focus, was commendable and indicated that lessons may have been learned. At that point, my reaction was to wish him well.

His total honesty as to his intent, during the press interview following the round, also served him well, although it resulted in the 2-stroke penalty.

Now, he accepts the belated penalty with dignity, and will, no doubt, have learned other lessons himself. That, in itself, provides a good lesson for youth.

38 posted on 04/13/2013 12:49:59 PM PDT by loveliberty2
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: PAR35

they why did Zoeller apologize ....chiltins and greens wasn;t racist ?


39 posted on 04/13/2013 12:51:03 PM PDT by advertising guy ( sad when the " go to guy " at FOX NEWS is Greta)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 16 | View Replies]

To: PilotDave

David Duval and Nick Faldo disagree. Both have said he should disqualify himself

Fald just said on the telecast that now that he knows the full story that they got it right n


40 posted on 04/13/2013 12:52:06 PM PDT by Wyatt's Torch (I can explain it to you. I can't understand it for you.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 29 | View Replies]

To: advertising guy

Are they mutually exclusive? Why can’t it be both?


41 posted on 04/13/2013 12:52:49 PM PDT by Wyatt's Torch (I can explain it to you. I can't understand it for you.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 37 | View Replies]

To: loveliberty2

You make some great points, and they should be heeded by the Pharisees among us....and let’s not forget - all of this was the result of a totally bizarre and unlucky bounce as a result of a shot so perfect that it deserved rich reward, and not a four shot problem. Again, I am luke warm on Tiger either way, but truth is truth.


42 posted on 04/13/2013 12:53:17 PM PDT by C. Edmund Wright (Tokyo Rove is more than a name, it's a GREAT WEBSITE)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 38 | View Replies]

To: C. Edmund Wright

“play a game of skill within the spirit of the rules”

Cheating is within the spirit of the rules? Dropping farther back than need to gain an advantage is cheating. You play a different game than I do... The incorrect scorecard penalty is there to allow for the DQ. Otherwise they never would DQ. The committee decided to penalize him for cheating. But let him play on? OMG! Bobby Jones is rolling over in his grave.

Imagine what will be said if Tiger goes on to win?


43 posted on 04/13/2013 12:53:28 PM PDT by PilotDave (No, really, you just can't make this stuff up!!!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 31 | View Replies]

To: PilotDave

You are on an arrogant high horse to accuse him of cheating, not to mention you are being intellectually absurd. Cheating? Really? Do you think he’s dumb enough to intentionally cheat in front of 20 million people? Get a grip.

You obviously don’t know golf. A ball drop is ALWAYS done to your advantage, within your interpretation of the rules. He was trying to gain an advantage, but not trying to gain one by cheating. And you don’t know the history of the card rule either - else they would not have mitigated it the way they did two years ago.


44 posted on 04/13/2013 12:57:14 PM PDT by C. Edmund Wright (Tokyo Rove is more than a name, it's a GREAT WEBSITE)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 43 | View Replies]

To: PilotDave

by the way, dropping the ball FURTHER AWAY from the hole is allowed in most drop situations. In fact, had he taken the drop area releif, or the line of crossing spot, he could have dropped as far back as he needed to. But then again, I guess you’re perfect so you have a different standard.


45 posted on 04/13/2013 12:59:07 PM PDT by C. Edmund Wright (Tokyo Rove is more than a name, it's a GREAT WEBSITE)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 43 | View Replies]

To: All
 photo obamatigerscrew.jpg

Help FR Continue the Conservative Fight!
Your Monthly and Quarterly Donations
Help Keep FR In the Battle!

Sponsoring FReepers are contributing
$10 Each time a New Monthly Donor signs up!
Get more bang for your FR buck!
Click Here To Sign Up Now!


46 posted on 04/13/2013 1:00:35 PM PDT by musicman (Until I see the REAL Long Form Vault BC, he's just "PRES__ENT" Obama = Without "ID")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 45 | View Replies]

To: C. Edmund Wright; EEGator

Exactly.

The committee ruled. Period.

He is abiding by the ruling.


47 posted on 04/13/2013 1:00:45 PM PDT by wolf24
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: CHRISTIAN DIARIST

Tiger combined two rules and I think it was an honest mistake. BUT, if he weren’t the name he is and the top PR man for the Masters he would’ve been booted.


48 posted on 04/13/2013 1:06:18 PM PDT by Obama_Is_Sabotaging_America (PRISON AT BENGHAZI?????)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: CHRISTIAN DIARIST
Tiger signed his scorecard without including the two penalty strokes and left the golf course. This morning he learned of his error

Lame. He didn't "learn of his error" because it wasn't until today that the "powers that be" ruled there was even an error in the first place. And what's with the, "I’m a huge Tiger Woods fan. That’s why it pains me..."? You're full of horse manure.

49 posted on 04/13/2013 1:11:58 PM PDT by Lancey Howard
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: CHRISTIAN DIARIST

Oh come on, as a Nation we’ve lowered every standard that I can think of to accommodate our precious negros...once one more?

It’s like reparations in kind.


50 posted on 04/13/2013 1:12:17 PM PDT by exPBRrat
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-5051-100101 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson