Skip to comments.To understand Bible, one must understand its nature, pope says
Posted on 04/13/2013 2:54:16 PM PDT by NYer
VATICAN CITY (CNS) -- The Catholic faith is not centered simply on a book -- the Bible -- but on Jesus Christ, the Word of God made flesh, Pope Francis said.
"The sacred Scriptures are a written testimony to the divine Word," which came before the Bible and exceeds it, the pope said April 12 during a meeting with members of the Pontifical Biblical Commission, an international body of scholars that advises the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith.
Commission members met at the Vatican April 9-12 to conclude work on a document about inspiration and truth in the Bible, which is likely to be published in the coming months.
Archbishop Gerhard Muller, prefect of the doctrinal congregation and president of the commission, told the pope the aim was to help people interpret the Scriptures "in accordance with the nature" of the Bible itself. The focus on "inspiration," he said, was an attempt to explain the divine origin of the Bible and the focus on "truth" was an attempt to describe what the Bible says "about God and his plan for salvation."
The archbishop said the commission recognized that when the church describes the Scriptures as being divinely inspired and true certain "challenges come from the Bible itself," including when passages seem to contradict scientific or historical evidence.
Another challenge, he said, is posed by "the violence in some passages" that seems to contradict basic Christian teaching and even phrases the Bible attributes directly to Jesus.
The point of the document, he said, is to help Catholics "overcome both fundamentalism and skepticism."
Pope Francis said the themes of biblical inspiration and truth are important not only for individual believers, "but for the whole church because its life and mission are based on the Word of God, who animates theology and inspires all of Christian existence."
Interpreting the Bible in an honest and authentic way means respecting its nature and recognizing its purpose, the pope said.
"The texts inspired by God were entrusted to the community of believers, the church of Christ, to increase the faith and guide the life of charity," he said. It is only with the assistance of the Holy Spirit and with full respect for the tradition and teaching of the church that the Scriptures' true meaning can be understood.
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How many times must we tell you, if the Roman organization interpreted the Scriptures anywhere near what the texts actually say, someone might listen? Further, if Rome's doctrines would comport with the Scriptures (the ones Rome pretends to have delivered and now claim to dominate), folks may give them the time of day.
But, the additions and abberations by Rome are so many and so gross that real believers rely on the Book for truth just as the Book itself teaches. Tim. Thank God we don't need that monstrosity Rome.
that real believers rely on the Book for truth just as the Book itself teaches
Where does the Bible teach inerrancy?
That reads as if you were handling snakes when you wrote it. I feel sad for you because the only bible you have is the one the martyrs of Rome gave you. Of course, since you are Protestant you could take out the hard parts that hold you accountable...again.
The Bible is the Word of God. It is faithful and true (Revelation 21:5) just as Jesus is Faithful and True (Revelation 19:11).
It is not possible to understand the Bible without being indwelt by the Holy Spirit.
“For what man knoweth the things of a man which is in him? Even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God. Now we have received not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God. Which things also we speak, not in the words which man’s wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheeth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual. But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them them, because they are spiritually discerned.” (1 Corinthians 2:11-14)
(1) Not particularly intelligent
(2) Incapable of carrying on a polite conversation
(3) Here only to insult others, not to offer a thoughtful counterargument
(4) Delighted only when another poster sinks to his level
You are not one of those posters. But you might be better off ignoring those posters.
Thank you, Papa.
The Church is OLDER than the New Testament, and the Church chose the 27 books of the New Testament. It was written BY the Church, under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, FOR the Church. When Scripture is removed from the Church, the whole book is out of context.
So...you have something against cartoon cereal boxes?
“the additions and abberations by Rome”
What did Rome add?
"If anyone says that after the reception of the grace of justification the guilt is so remitted and the debt of eternal punishment so blotted out to every repentent sinner, that no debt of temporal punishment remains to be discharged either in this world or in purgatory before the gates of heaven can be opened, let him be anathema"
The Council of Trent.
"And when you were dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He (Jesus) made you alive together with Him, having forgiven ALL our transgressions, having cancelled out the certificate of debt consisting of decrees against us and which was hostile to us; and He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross."
"With my heart full of praise for the Queen of Heaven, the sign of hope and source of comfort on our pilgrimage of faith to the heavenly Jerusalem, I greet all of you who are present at this solemn liturgy... This liturgy presents you, Mary, as the woman clothed with the sun...O woman clothed with the sun...the youth of the world greet you with so much love...In Mary the final victory of life over death is already a reality...O Mary...as Mother of the Church, you guide us still from your place in heaven and...help us to increase in holiness by conquering sin."
John Paul II, Cherry Creek Park, Denver
"I pray that the eyes of your heart may be enlightened so that you may know what is the hope of His calling, what are the riches of the glory of His inheritance in the believers, and what is the surpassing greatness of His power toward us who believe. These are in accordance with the working of the strength of His might which He brought about in Christ, when He raised Him from the dead , and seated Him at His right hand in the heavenly places, far above all rule and authority and power and dominion, and EVERY NAME that is named, not only in this age, but also in the one to come."
That pesky Paul, again.
Ping to 13
Really? Check #13. It is a gross lie of its own fabrication.
The bodily resurrection of Mary. Mary's sinlessness. Apostolic succession. The Catholic Church. Peter in Rome. Peter as 1st pope. Popes. Etc. Almost everything Rome believes and teaches is OUTSIDE the Bible. If she isn't ADDING to the Word of God for her beliefs, she is TAKING AWAY from the Word of God for her beliefs. Additions and abberations is putting it mildly.
What you fail to realize is that the Bible is nothing more than Tradition written down. For the first three hundred years of Christianity, there was no New Testament as we know it now. Jesus did not found a book. He founded a teaching Church. Sola Scriptura is a false, man made tradition, which is condemned by Holy Scripture. See ***Matt 15:2-9, ***Mark 7:3-13, ***1Cor 2:13, ***Col 2:8, ***1Tim 1:4, and ***Tit 1:14. Since the Authority of the Magisterium for Bible interpretation was cut off by the Reformation and no longer available, the reformers made a fateful decision that resulted in a disaster that grew so fast they could no longer control it. They decided that everyone could go his own way in Bible interpretation. This was yet another man made tradition forbidden by Holy Scripture. See ***Acts 8:26-40, ***2Pet 1:19-21, and ***2Pet 3:16.
Individual interpretation of Holy Scripture immediately resulted in squabbles and splits in Protestantism which continue to this very day. In 1521, the same year that Martin Luther split from the Catholic Church, Thomas Munser split from Luther. By 1600 there were over 200 splits. By 1900, there were over 1000. Now in 2006, there are over 38,000 splits in the Body of Christ. The splits are continuing to this very day with an estimated 3-5 new splits every week. In addition, all of the major Protestant sects are splitting within themselves. All of this madness was caused by the man-made false doctrines of Sola Scriptura and individual interpretation of Holy Scripture, both of which were started by the reformers.
Rome’s main error, it seems, is failing to add prideful private interpretation to the text. That’s what I’m getting from these discussions so far.
Poor narses. Resorting to cereal boxes and bumper stickers so early in the evening. How about some Scripture to stand on?
Perhaps this book will be everything its defenders seem to suggest at this time; and I, for one, pray that it is. But my concern is with Archbishop Gerhard Muller. He is a modernist of the first order who is responsible for earlier writings that have been read by many to suggest that the Consecrated Host is not the actual Body and Blood of jesus Christ, but only a symbol; and that the virginity of the Blessed Virgin was not to be understood as an unbroken hymen, but rather, a spiritual virginity. He never denied or explained his writings, and the only defense was offered by others who said his German was mis-translated. I don’t know, and maybe it was, and indeed, this may be different. But he and the others are modernists that stand by the heresies of Vatican II, so it would not surprise me to see them doubling down on this notion by trying to tell the gullible what the Bible really means “today” in this “modern” world.
I say be very very cautious.
I know. Stick another wafer in and call it pleasing to God.
But it is asserted that Christ built His church on one flawed (as are we all) human being, rather than on the profound, foundational core of TRUTH which that flawed man has just finished confessing, namely, Who and What Christ is.
Your interpretation of Scripture is not the Church’s and it is yours that is the innovation. Both purgatory and veneration of the Theotokos are thoroughly Biblical. Outside of Scripture, clear Marianisn appears by the mid-2nd Century, long preceding the canonization of the New Testament. Purgatory not only appeals to common sense and what we understand about God, but is in Scripture at 1 Corinthians 3:15 (that pesky Paul again). Also Jesus Parable starting at Matthew 18:22.
We’ve been discussing this stuff for 2000 years, not six months.
After all, the beret-thing is fairly cool.
And, our nourishing granola tastes better than their flakes of "OCSUI" (Our Cult's Screwed Up Interpretation).
By the way, not everything that happened is IN the Bible - some things are simply historical events. The evidence that Peter was in Rome and died there is overwhelming, and it IS mentioned in the Bible. Such as in John 21, where Jesus predicts Peter’s martyrdom. Or the fact that 1 Peter was written from “Babylon.”
There is also extra-biblical historical information, like the fact that the excavated Peter’s tomb. It had his name on it. And was precisely where the Church Fathers said it was.
Quite apart from the incontestable scriptural justification and the received tradition of the apostles and disciples of Christ you may wish to read this and in particular the story of Bononillo. This will get you off form following the likes of Benny Hinn, Rev Jeremiah Wright; Rev. Schuller, Tammy Faye Baker, and every neighborhood local pastor who poses off theologians.
St. Anthony of Padua: Doctor of the Church, Patron of the Poor, Italy (1195-1231)
Feast dayJune 13
St. Anthony was devoted to Jesus in the Holy Eucharist and Our Lady from his childhood, when he served Mass for his uncle who was a priest. St. Anthony is known for his defense of the Real Presence of Jesus in the Holy Eucharist, miracles and conversions. Before his death, St. Anthony received the last Sacraments and said I see my Lord. He proclaimed:
Upon the Altar there takes place the transubstantiation of bread and wine into the Body and Blood of Jesus Christ. That Body which the Virgin begot, which hung upon the Cross and was placed in the sepulchre, which rose again the third day, and ascended to the right hand of the Father, this Body the Church today and everyday presents and distributes to her faithful. When the priest speaks the words: This is My Body, the essence of the bread is changed into the Body of Christ.
Anthony was a friend of St. Francis and became a Franciscan priest. He was a great preacher on the Real Presence of Jesus in the Blessed Sacrament and told everyone he met about his love for Jesus in the Holy Eucharist. St. Anthony was also known as a great miracle worker who loved the poor and sick people very much. Wherever he went, St. Anthony performed many miracles to help feed the poor, heal the sick, and care for the needy. He is known as a great Doctor of the Church, patron of the poor, and finder of the lost. (From our book Adoration for Children. See the Catalog section of our website for ordering information).
STORY of BONONILLO
There was a man named Bononillo who did not believe that the Eucharist is Jesus. He mocked of people who believed that, by the power of the Holy Spirit, the bread and wine are changed into the Body and Blood of Christ at the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass.
One day, St. Anthony challenged the man, saying, “If the mule you often ride were to adore the true Body of Christ under the appearance of bread, would you believe in the truth of the Lord’s Sacrament?” Bononillo said “Yes.” So, they made a bet. In a few days they would place both the Blessed Sacrament and a pile of hay in front of the mule, to see what he would do.
Bononillo told everyone about the event. Because he wanted to make sure to prove that he was right and St. Anthony was wrong, he didn’t give the donkey any food for two days before the test. Of course, he thought, the mule will be so hungry that he will not even look at the Eucharist, but run straight to his food.
On the day of the test Bononillo led the donkey toward where St. Anthony was standing with the Blessed Sacrament, in front of a great crowd. When they were a few steps away from the Holy Eucharist, Bononillo placed a bag of hay under the mule’s nose, but the mule turned his head. The mule walked over to St. Anthony, and when he was close, bent his front legs as if to kneel in Adoration! Even Bononillo saw that the Sacred Host is really JesusBody, Blood, Soul and Divinityand believed in Him.
St. Anthony loved Jesus in the Holy Eucharist very much, so he told everyone he met about His Real Presence in the Blessed Sacrament. (From our book Stories of the Eucharist).
You are basing the entire doctrine of purgatory on one verse about the work of a man being tested by fire? Oh, Hilda, you folks need to talk about this a lot longer than 2000 years if you are going to get anything from the Scriptures.
Sounds like you were just getting warmed up...
My soul magnifies the Lord,
And my spirit rejoices in God my Savior.
For He has regarded the low estate of His handmaiden,
For behold, henceforth all generations shall call me blessed.
For He who is mighty has done great things for me, and holy is His name. And His mercy is on those who fear Him from generation to generation.
He has shown strength with His arm:
He has scattered the proud in the imagination of their hearts.
He has put down the mighty from their thrones,
and exalted those of low degree.
He has filled the hungry with good things;
and the rich He has sent empty away.
He has helped His servant Israel, in remembrance of His mercy;
As He spoke to our fathers, to Abraham and to His posterity forever.
Glory be to the Father and to the Son and to the Holy Spirit.
As it was in the beginning, is now and ever shall be, world without end. Amen
Magníficat ánima mea Dóminum,
et exsultávit spíritus meus
in Deo salvatóre meo,
quia respéxit humilitátem
Ecce enim ex hoc beátam
me dicent omnes generatiónes,
quia fecit mihi magna,
qui potens est,
et sanctum nomen eius,
et misericórdia eius in progénies
et progénies timéntibus eum.
Fecit poténtiam in bráchio suo,
dispérsit supérbos mente cordis sui;
depósuit poténtes de sede
et exaltávit húmiles.
Esuriéntes implévit bonis
et dívites dimísit inánes.
Suscépit Ísrael púerum suum,
sicut locútus est ad patres nostros,
Ábraham et sémini eius in sæcula.
Glória Patri et Fílio
et Spirítui Sancto.
Sicut erat in princípio,
et nunc et semper,
et in sæcula sæculórum.
She became the Mother of God, in which work so many and such great good things are bestowed on her as pass man’s understanding. For on this there follows all honor, all blessedness, and her unique place in the whole of mankind, among which she has no equal, namely, that she had a child by the Father in heaven, and such a Child . . . Hence men have crowded all her glory into a single word, calling her the Mother of God . . . None can say of her nor announce to her greater things, even though he had as many tongues as the earth possesses flowers and blades of grass: the sky, stars; and the sea, grains of sand. It needs to be pondered in the heart what it means to be the Mother of God.
(Commentary on the Magnificat, 1521; in Luther’s Works, Pelikan et al, vol. 21, 326)
This is about the 4th time you have posted the same two pictures. Isn’t there anything available from Rome which actually defends their heresies?
The ox knoweth his Owner, and the ass his Master’s crib...
narses may post the same pics over and over again because you whine in every Catholic topic thread the same way over and over again.
Isnt there anything available in your head which actually defends your heresies?
No heresies to defend. We’ll leave defending heresies to the reformed.
Dutchboy88 uses God’s Word to prove his points. Scripture after Scripture is given to compare, study, and talk about. And you think cereal boxes are the RCC’s answer to studying God’s Word? The problem isn’t that you all are not given information. The problem is that you all do not seem interested in the information. It’s enough to suck down another wafer and call yourself “holy” I suppose. Cereal boxes may BE your only alternative.
No, the problem is that casting pearls before swine is bootless. Few, if any of the oddball rabid anti-Catholic crowd here has ever shown any integrity, they hide the denominational preferences they have and rarely expose their real nuttiness, but it does come out.
All of the Lent and Easter abomination is pagan and God clearly condemned it in scripture.
God doesnt smile down on people who celebrate Easter.
When you can at least embrace the basic tenents of the faith, then maybe there is room to have serious debate, until then laughter and scorn are about what the random heretics get from me.
Credo in Deum Patrem omnipotentem;
Creatorem caeli et terrae.
Et in Jesum Christum,
Filium eius unicum, Dominum nostrum;
qui conceptus est
de Spiritu Sancto,
natus ex Maria virgine;
passus sub Pontio Pilato,
crucifixus, mortuus, et sepultus;
descendit ad inferos;
tertia die resurrexit a mortuis;
ascendit ad caelos;
sedet ad dexteram Dei Patris omnipotentis;
inde venturus est
iudicare vivos et mortuos.
Credo in Spiritum Sanctum;
sanctam ecclesiam catholicam;
vitam aeternam. Amen.
I believe in God, the Father almighty,
creator of heaven and earth.
I believe in Jesus Christ,
his only Son, our Lord.
He was conceived
by the power of the Holy Spirit,
and born of the Virgin Mary,
He suffered under Pontius Pilate,
was crucified, died, and was buried;
He descended into hell.
On the third day he rose again;
he ascended into heaven,
he is seated at the right hand of the Father,
he will come again
to judge the living and the dead.
I believe in the Holy Spirit,
the holy Catholic church,
the communion of saints,
the forgiveness of sins,
the resurrection of the body,
and the life everlasting. Amen
3 For I received from the Lord what I also passed on to you: The Lord Jesus, on the night he was betrayed, took bread, 24 and when he had given thanks, he broke it and said, This is my body, which is for you; do this in remembrance of me. 25 In the same way, after supper he took the cup, saying, This cup is the new covenant in my blood; do this, whenever you drink it, in remembrance of me. 26 For whenever you eat this bread and drink this cup, you proclaim the Lords death until he comes.The meaning is plain to anyone who can read.
27 So then, whoever eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of sinning against the body and blood of the Lord. 28 Everyone ought to examine themselves before they eat of the bread and drink from the cup. 29 For those who eat and drink without discerning the body of Christ eat and drink judgment on themselves. 30 That is why many among you are weak and sick, and a number of you have fallen asleep.
Since you're not mentioned in the Bible, I'm not interested in your fallible distortion, but rather, the infallible teaching of "the pillar and foundation of truth."
Yes you are right. And yet, here we stand. With all longsuffering and doctrine. Preaching the word. Reproving, rebuking, and exhorting. 2 Tim. 4:2. Pearls of wisdom that are cast before you, day after day. And yet...
Then there is the "new church" of the Pope of One:
Yep, I see the trash you and your ilk spread. It is vomitus.
No, the meaning is plain to anyone who can study God’s Word, rightly divided. And know WHO He was speaking to, WHY He spoke it, and IF it applies to us in this dispensation of the Grace of God. You DO know that the new covenant was made with Israel, don’t you? You DO know that we are not Israel, don’t you? You DO know that God had the 12 for a reason, and Paul for a reason, don’t you? Lest why not make Paul the 12th Apostle? You DO know these things, don’t you? You DO care that these things are important to understanding what God is doing today, while Israel is blinded and set aside. Don’t you?
God’s Word is “vomitus”? Wow. It’s worse than I even thought.
“Gods Word is vomitus? Wow. Its worse than I even thought.”
Clearly trying to make it sound like I said that. I did not.
DEE-spicable. Disgusting. And clear evidence of who inspires that behavior.
Narses, you were responding to my post stating we preached God’s Word. Day after day. You respond that “Yep, I see the trash you and your ilk spread. It is vomitus.” Now, just WHAT did you refer to when you called it “trash”?
“Dutchboy88 uses Gods Word to prove his points.”
Nope. What he does is posts verses, that don’t prove his point, but which he insist do prove his point.
“Scripture after Scripture is given to compare, study, and talk about.”
None of which ever prove Dutchboy’s claims against the Catholic Church.
“And you think cereal boxes are the RCCs answer to studying Gods Word?”
No, I think cereal boxes are a clever way of pointing out that Dutchboy serves up sugar coated Protestant heresies and stupid attacks rather than real nurishment.
“The problem isnt that you all are not given information.”
That is, in fact, one of the problems. We also get outright falsehoods from Dutchboy. Here’s an example: Hilda wrote: “Purgatory not only appeals to common sense and what we understand about God, but is in Scripture at 1 Corinthians 3:15 (that pesky Paul again). Also Jesus Parable starting at Matthew 18:22.” So, Hilda mentioned TWO verse - and I see no reason to believe she only believes those two speak of Purgatory. Yet, how did Dutchboy respond: “You are basing the entire doctrine of purgatory on one verse about the work of a man being tested by fire?” So, not only did Dutchboy misrepresent what Hilda actually posted - she posted TWO verses - but he claims to read her mind and know that she bases the “...entire doctrine of purgatory on one verse...”
When dealing with that sort of man you might as well post cereal boxes.
“The problem is that you all do not seem interested in the information.”
Did it ever occur to you that we have had the same misinterpreted verses thrown at us here for years and years already? After a while you realize you’re dealing with Protestant anti-Catholic bigots who not only don’t know what they’re talking about (just a matter of days ago I had to correct such a bigot about a Catholic doctrine he clearly DID NOT UNDERSTAND), but you’re dealing with someone who is too dim to understand that his attacks have already been refuted hundreds of times.
“Its enough to suck down another wafer and call yourself holy I suppose. Cereal boxes may BE your only alternative.”
Wow. You’re so offended by a cereal box that you attack the Eucharist. . . and then you wonder why we don’t listen to your old, tired attacks on the Christian faith?
but, but, nothing in that list has ever been spoken of before on this forum.
Well that, and such doesn't exist. I mean any criticism can't exist. You never said that! We've NEVER HEARD IT BEFORE. Is there ANYTHING in your [puny] little mind that can in the least establish your complaint(s)?
I can’t post the “Aw jeez” guy here because of the vulgarity of the caption, so I’ll have to ask everyone to just please consider it posted.