Skip to comments.Praying for the Dead Terrorist? No Wonder the Episcopal Curch is Dying
Posted on 04/22/2013 6:27:15 AM PDT by piperpilot
At my small Episcopal church yesterday, we prayed for all those "killed" in the "tragic" Boston Marathon bombing. That was bad enough--those people were murdered and it was anything but a tragedy. Then we had to pray for the dead terrorist--which I refused to do. How unbiblical can you get. The dead terrorist didn't repent before his death. His soul went straight to Hell. Praying for him is basically praying for evil if you ask me. We also prayed for the still living terrorist. I can see that--he's still alive and can repent. But we didn't pray for the Holy Spirit to change his mind. No, no, no. We prayed for the Holy Spirit to "change minds.". Most likely ours. This sort of thing is the Just more evidence of the moral equivalency and lack of Biblical truth that has infected the mainstream Protestant sects today. The most amazing thing though was that not a single parishioner thought there was anything wrong with this. I pointed this outntonseveral people and they all tried to explain it away so as not to create waves. So sad.
As for me? Proud ex-Episcopalian since 1980.
I’m praying that he spends the rest of his life in acute pain.
A lot of churches teach “hate the sin, love the sinner.”
At times it is difficult or, as in this case, impossible.
But I a pretty sure that is the driving theology.
Exactly the sort of thing that drove me to leave the Episcopal Church several years ago.
You can love the sinner while they’re still alive because there is always hope for repentance, but there is no hope for a sinner who has died an unrepentant sinner.
hate the sin, love the sinner.
That was Christ’s message, tough as that is to put into practice, it is hard to refute the implicit intent of what he said.
Hate the sin, love the sinner.
Praying for the dead is in the Bible, of course it is in Maccabees II so it’s a Catholic thing I guess.
And the Lord’s prayer: Forgive us our sins as we forgive those who sin against us.
Forgiving others for their sins is a hard thing to do, but we must do it.
Sadly, I think I am finally ready to leave too. We don’t even do the confession of sins half the time anymore. They have strayed so far from the truth of the Bible. I just can’t fight those fights anymore. I will go elsewhere.
Not trying to be insensitive, but what is the reason for praying for dead folks?
If they died with faith, they are alive with Christ.
If they died in unbelief they have already been judged and are cast out.
Not sure where Scripture teaches to pray for the dead anyway...
“Forgiving others for their sins is a hard thing to do, but we must do it.”
Possibly the hardest command for Christians to accomplish. Maybe that is why Christ emphasized it so much, a true test of faith.
Dunno. Don’t like the Episcopalians much; my dad left them for Anglicans when they went all weird. But I pray for God’s mercy and grace for others, just as I pray for it for myself.
I agree, and that’s what I did. I was mostly complaining about the prayers for the DEAD bomber.
This praying for the dead stuff comes from the book of 2nd maccabees also known as the apocrypha. If you read the actual text it is pretty clear that it doesn’t belong. It is out of place and is most certainly written by another author.
How dare you bring Biblical truth into this discussion. ;-)
I wasn’t in the head of #1 when he passed away so I don’t know his soul. I also do believe in Purgatory where souls wait and can be helped by my prayers. So theologically, I’m okay with praying for the soul of the older brother. I’m also okay with praying for the younger brother. I think of the man who tried to kill John Paul II. Hearts can change. He’s in a Jewish hospital. The caregivers I have known in my life would be caring for him the same whether he were someone’s aging mother or a terrorist so I assume that he is getting gentle care. Even if he is mute and paralyzed the rest of his life or maybe because he is, he may come to Christ. I also think of the Termoline in The Last Battle by CS Lewis. He was confused as to why he was in Heaven. So were those around him but he was there.
Well if he’s dead, no amount of praying is going to help him.
You just brought up an old memory of my childhood. During the Vietnam war, our family (I was a young girl) attended a Christmas service at the Episcopal church in which we were members. The minister asked us to bow our heads and pray for the “enemy”. My father gathered up our family and we walked out. (Never to return.)
I wasn’t disagreeing with you.
Don’t feel bad. At my (now former) house or worship my wife and I had to sit through an attack on Mitch McConnell. We are now looking for a new house of worship.
“Well if hes dead, no amount of praying is going to help him.”
I don’t know if it is about him as it is about us showing our ability to forgive.
To be fair, in theory, just in dying moments he could have felt true sorrow for his actions. [I wouldn’t bet the farm on it though. I hope the minister said something like, “let us pray that what’s-his-face-was-really-sorry-for-being-a-terrorist-schmuck.”
Then it would be much better to pray “Lord, help me deal with these feelings of hatred I have for these terrorists and others like them”.
Just KUMBAYAH again! The definition of which is: naively optimistic views of the world and human nature.[
This is so they would repent and turn to the Lord instead of following their wicked ways.
So, the kind of love here is a tough but firm love, and the prayers are not weak but also pointed.
For all of us have gone astray, each of us has turned away, but the Lord has laid the Iniquity of us all (believers) upon Him. And their was probably someone praying for us also, when we did not know the Love of Christ.
Blessings in Prayer.
“I know your works: you are neither cold nor hot. Would that you were either cold or hot! So, because you are lukewarm, and neither hot nor cold, I will spit you out of my mouth. “”
Before all the “experts” and those who have the secret decoder ring pile on, I’m not saying I don’t believe, I do, but just find it impossible to figure out with inside out, upside down, hide the meaning sentence structure.
Six, because eggs don’t have bones is just as clear.
Its like reading a help manual written by Microsoft.
It’s proper for a pastor, priest, etc. to encourage Christians to pray for the repentance of the living terrorist. It would also be proper to preach about the false religion called Islam, and the fact that its followers will be lost without Jesus Christ.
“That is clear as mud and why I find the bible incomprehensible”
My sympathies completely.
“Not sure where Scripture teaches to pray for the dead anyway... “ Try this: http://www.catholic.com/magazine/articles/is-purgatory-a-catholic-invention-no-way
Agreed. You never hear a peep about Islam in this parish, other than that it’s incumbent on us to understand them. Actions speak louder than words. Where are all the Muslims decrying what these two did?
ZIP | April 22, 2013 9:41 am | 25 Comments
Boston Bomber: Bible Is A Cheap Copy Of The Koran
Learning about God is not for a single reading of the book, but a lifetime effort of returning to scriptures and prayer.
Doesn’t matter if he felt bad about it. If he didn’t believe Jesus was the savior, and he worshipped the false god Allah , he isn’t in heaven and no amount of prayer will help.
At the “add your own prayers to these” part of the Mass each week, I pray for those mired in the evil of Islam, that they will be enlightened, that Obama will have God change his heart and that I become worthy of asking these favors. I added the living terrorist this Sunday.
Here are the 2 verses that simplify it: it is by faith alone ghagra you are saved. But faith without works is dead.
I find that pretty easy~peasy
“Learning about God is not for a single reading of the book, but a lifetime effort of returning to scriptures and prayer.”
However, as someone who programs a lot I can tell you just like the Bible, reading MS help documents a hundred times will leave one just as confused.
Maybe someone like me with an IQ in the high 150s needs pictures.
Muslims will stay silent, as usual.
Church leaders who say we need to “understand” Muslims need to take a lesson from Paul’s sermon on Mars Hill. While courteous, he was uncompromising in his message condemning idolatry and false religion. He laid out the message of salvation through Christ in no uncertain terms. He wasn’t worried about befriending his audience.
I think you’re dead on. The Episcopal church is hemmoraghing members so badly that they try to befriend everyone—everyone, that is, except those who actually read the Bible and stand for the Truth.
This is likely. But it isn't known for sure and it is up to Jesus to pass final judgement.
IMHO, the time to leave the Episcopal church has long since passed. If you've tolerated the recent implementation of modernism and relative morality up until now, then I don't think this incident should change your mind.
Iced coffee or hot coffee, not many people drink room temp coffee. drinking slightly hot plain water is kind of repulsive.
The turning point for me in studying the Bible came when I just wanted to know the truth. Of course I was crying my eyes out to God at the time. It is not our reasoning that deciphers the Word, it is God who opens our eyes to His truth. All you have to do is ask, and be willing to have your world turned upside down by the truth.
That is clear as mud and why I find the bible incomprehensible.
Personally, I think it's pretty clear. The speaker (first person, "I") wishes that the person or people he is addressing (second person, "you") were able to demonstrate some sort of full commitment to a position or cause. "Hot" and "Cold" are metaphors for being fully committed to a belief or position. The speaker is disgusted with the people he is addressing because they aren't willing to commit. "Lukewarm" is a metaphor for that lack of commitment.
What? I suppose you're typing on some device with auto-correct ... and I'm more than a little puzzled that your auto-correct came up with "ghagra" as a replacement for (presumably) "that".
I just checked ... "Ghagra Coli" is a piece of traditional Indian womens' clothing. So I just learned something ... that's kinda cool.
The turning point for me came when I realized that God chooses (for whatever reason) to speak in metaphors, similes, parables, idioms, and figurative language that are loaded with multiple layers of meaning. The Bible is often not an "either/or" proposition, but a "both and something else as well" proposition.
Has your mother or father or grandmother or grandfather died?
Do you ever remember them in your prayers?