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Praying for the Dead Terrorist? No Wonder the Episcopal Curch is Dying
4/22/13 | Piperpilot

Posted on 04/22/2013 6:27:15 AM PDT by piperpilot

At my small Episcopal church yesterday, we prayed for all those "killed" in the "tragic" Boston Marathon bombing. That was bad enough--those people were murdered and it was anything but a tragedy. Then we had to pray for the dead terrorist--which I refused to do. How unbiblical can you get. The dead terrorist didn't repent before his death. His soul went straight to Hell. Praying for him is basically praying for evil if you ask me. We also prayed for the still living terrorist. I can see that--he's still alive and can repent. But we didn't pray for the Holy Spirit to change his mind. No, no, no. We prayed for the Holy Spirit to "change minds.". Most likely ours. This sort of thing is the Just more evidence of the moral equivalency and lack of Biblical truth that has infected the mainstream Protestant sects today. The most amazing thing though was that not a single parishioner thought there was anything wrong with this. I pointed this outntonseveral people and they all tried to explain it away so as not to create waves. So sad.


TOPICS: Catholic; Current Events; General Discusssion; Mainline Protestant; Worship
KEYWORDS: catholic; ecusa; episcopal; episcopalchurch; prayer; terrorism
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1 posted on 04/22/2013 6:27:15 AM PDT by piperpilot
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To: piperpilot

Bravo!


2 posted on 04/22/2013 6:29:31 AM PDT by laweeks
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To: piperpilot

As for me? Proud ex-Episcopalian since 1980.


3 posted on 04/22/2013 6:30:17 AM PDT by showme_the_Glory (ILLEGAL: prohibited by law. ALIEN: Owing political allegiance to another country or government)
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To: piperpilot

I’m praying that he spends the rest of his life in acute pain.


4 posted on 04/22/2013 6:30:19 AM PDT by BuffaloJack (Gun Control is the Key to totalitarianism and genocide.)
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To: piperpilot

A lot of churches teach “hate the sin, love the sinner.”

At times it is difficult or, as in this case, impossible.

But I a pretty sure that is the driving theology.


5 posted on 04/22/2013 6:30:22 AM PDT by freedumb2003 (LBJ declared war on poverty and lost. Barack Obama declared war on prosperity and won. /csmusaret)
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To: piperpilot

Exactly the sort of thing that drove me to leave the Episcopal Church several years ago.


6 posted on 04/22/2013 6:31:10 AM PDT by Zippo44 (Liberal: another word for poltroon.)
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To: freedumb2003

You can love the sinner while they’re still alive because there is always hope for repentance, but there is no hope for a sinner who has died an unrepentant sinner.


7 posted on 04/22/2013 6:33:17 AM PDT by piperpilot
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To: freedumb2003

“hate the sin, love the sinner.”

That was Christ’s message, tough as that is to put into practice, it is hard to refute the implicit intent of what he said.


8 posted on 04/22/2013 6:33:31 AM PDT by WILLIALAL
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To: piperpilot

Matthew 5:44


9 posted on 04/22/2013 6:34:28 AM PDT by bad company (There are no illegal guns, just undocumented firearms.)
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To: piperpilot
“‘I know your works: you are neither cold nor hot. Would that you were either cold or hot! So, because you are lukewarm, and neither hot nor cold, I will spit you out of my mouth. "

Revelation 3:15-16

10 posted on 04/22/2013 6:34:52 AM PDT by PGR88
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To: piperpilot

Hate the sin, love the sinner.

Praying for the dead is in the Bible, of course it is in Maccabees II so it’s a Catholic thing I guess.

And the Lord’s prayer: Forgive us our sins as we forgive those who sin against us.

Forgiving others for their sins is a hard thing to do, but we must do it.


11 posted on 04/22/2013 6:35:15 AM PDT by RadiationRomeo (Step into my mind and glimpse the madness that is me)
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To: Zippo44

Sadly, I think I am finally ready to leave too. We don’t even do the confession of sins half the time anymore. They have strayed so far from the truth of the Bible. I just can’t fight those fights anymore. I will go elsewhere.


12 posted on 04/22/2013 6:36:30 AM PDT by piperpilot
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To: piperpilot
How unbiblical can you get.

Not trying to be insensitive, but what is the reason for praying for dead folks?

If they died with faith, they are alive with Christ.

If they died in unbelief they have already been judged and are cast out.

Not sure where Scripture teaches to pray for the dead anyway...

13 posted on 04/22/2013 6:37:10 AM PDT by Gamecock ("Ultimately, Jesus died to save us from the wrath of God." ¬óR.C. Sproul)
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To: piperpilot
Christan's should be praying for the surviving bomber's salvation.
14 posted on 04/22/2013 6:37:20 AM PDT by Coldwater Creek (He who dwells in thee shelter of the Most High will rest in the shadows of the Almighty Psalm 91:)
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To: RadiationRomeo

“Forgiving others for their sins is a hard thing to do, but we must do it.”

Possibly the hardest command for Christians to accomplish. Maybe that is why Christ emphasized it so much, a true test of faith.


15 posted on 04/22/2013 6:38:13 AM PDT by WILLIALAL
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To: piperpilot

Dunno. Don’t like the Episcopalians much; my dad left them for Anglicans when they went all weird. But I pray for God’s mercy and grace for others, just as I pray for it for myself.


16 posted on 04/22/2013 6:38:29 AM PDT by Little Ray (How did I end up in this hand-basket, and why is it getting so hot?)
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To: Coldwater Creek

I agree, and that’s what I did. I was mostly complaining about the prayers for the DEAD bomber.


17 posted on 04/22/2013 6:38:31 AM PDT by piperpilot
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To: piperpilot

This praying for the dead stuff comes from the book of 2nd maccabees also known as the apocrypha. If you read the actual text it is pretty clear that it doesn’t belong. It is out of place and is most certainly written by another author.


18 posted on 04/22/2013 6:40:51 AM PDT by Boiler Plate ("Why be difficult, when with just a little more work, you can be impossible" Mom)
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To: bad company

How dare you bring Biblical truth into this discussion. ;-)

Amen.


19 posted on 04/22/2013 6:42:28 AM PDT by newheart (The worst thing the Left ever did was to convince the world it was not a religion.)
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To: piperpilot

I wasn’t in the head of #1 when he passed away so I don’t know his soul. I also do believe in Purgatory where souls wait and can be helped by my prayers. So theologically, I’m okay with praying for the soul of the older brother. I’m also okay with praying for the younger brother. I think of the man who tried to kill John Paul II. Hearts can change. He’s in a Jewish hospital. The caregivers I have known in my life would be caring for him the same whether he were someone’s aging mother or a terrorist so I assume that he is getting gentle care. Even if he is mute and paralyzed the rest of his life or maybe because he is, he may come to Christ. I also think of the Termoline in The Last Battle by CS Lewis. He was confused as to why he was in Heaven. So were those around him but he was there.


20 posted on 04/22/2013 6:42:54 AM PDT by Mercat
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To: piperpilot

Well if he’s dead, no amount of praying is going to help him.


21 posted on 04/22/2013 6:43:25 AM PDT by mountn man (ATTITUDE- The Pleasure You Get From Life, Is Equal To The Attitude You Put Into It.)
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To: piperpilot

You just brought up an old memory of my childhood. During the Vietnam war, our family (I was a young girl) attended a Christmas service at the Episcopal church in which we were members. The minister asked us to bow our heads and pray for the “enemy”. My father gathered up our family and we walked out. (Never to return.)


22 posted on 04/22/2013 6:44:54 AM PDT by biss5577
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To: piperpilot

I wasn’t disagreeing with you.


23 posted on 04/22/2013 6:45:22 AM PDT by Coldwater Creek (He who dwells in thee shelter of the Most High will rest in the shadows of the Almighty Psalm 91:)
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To: piperpilot

Don’t feel bad. At my (now former) house or worship my wife and I had to sit through an attack on Mitch McConnell. We are now looking for a new house of worship.


24 posted on 04/22/2013 6:45:24 AM PDT by pabianice
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To: mountn man

“Well if he’s dead, no amount of praying is going to help him.”

I don’t know if it is about him as it is about us showing our ability to forgive.


25 posted on 04/22/2013 6:46:04 AM PDT by WILLIALAL
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To: piperpilot

To be fair, in theory, just in dying moments he could have felt true sorrow for his actions. [I wouldn’t bet the farm on it though. I hope the minister said something like, “let us pray that what’s-his-face-was-really-sorry-for-being-a-terrorist-schmuck.”


26 posted on 04/22/2013 6:49:27 AM PDT by gemoftheocean (...geez, this all seems so straight forward and logical to me...)
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To: WILLIALAL

Then it would be much better to pray “Lord, help me deal with these feelings of hatred I have for these terrorists and others like them”.


27 posted on 04/22/2013 6:50:01 AM PDT by mountn man (ATTITUDE- The Pleasure You Get From Life, Is Equal To The Attitude You Put Into It.)
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To: piperpilot

Just KUMBAYAH again! The definition of which is: naively optimistic views of the world and human nature.[


28 posted on 04/22/2013 6:50:23 AM PDT by golf lover (goingf)
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To: laweeks
The Lord Jesus Christ in Matthew 5:44 says to "Love your enemies and Pray for those who persecute you". Sometimes love can be very tough, especially when intervention is needed. Praying can be tough, yet King David prayed imprecatory prayers in the Psalms requesting that the Lord take notice and that his enemies would stumble and fall.

This is so they would repent and turn to the Lord instead of following their wicked ways.

So, the kind of love here is a tough but firm love, and the prayers are not weak but also pointed.

For all of us have gone astray, each of us has turned away, but the Lord has laid the Iniquity of us all (believers) upon Him. And their was probably someone praying for us also, when we did not know the Love of Christ.

Blessings in Prayer.

SR

29 posted on 04/22/2013 6:52:11 AM PDT by sr4402
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To: PGR88

““‘I know your works: you are neither cold nor hot. Would that you were either cold or hot! So, because you are lukewarm, and neither hot nor cold, I will spit you out of my mouth. “”


That is clear as mud and why I find the bible incomprehensible.

Before all the “experts” and those who have the secret decoder ring pile on, I’m not saying I don’t believe, I do, but just find it impossible to figure out with inside out, upside down, hide the meaning sentence structure.

Six, because eggs don’t have bones is just as clear.

Its like reading a help manual written by Microsoft.


30 posted on 04/22/2013 6:54:50 AM PDT by Wurlitzer (Nothing says "ignorance" like Islam!)
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To: piperpilot

It’s proper for a pastor, priest, etc. to encourage Christians to pray for the repentance of the living terrorist. It would also be proper to preach about the false religion called Islam, and the fact that its followers will be lost without Jesus Christ.


31 posted on 04/22/2013 6:56:59 AM PDT by CatherineofAragon ( (Support Christian white males---the architects of the jewel known as Western Civilization))
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To: Wurlitzer

“That is clear as mud and why I find the bible incomprehensible”

My sympathies completely.


32 posted on 04/22/2013 6:59:14 AM PDT by WILLIALAL
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To: Gamecock

“Not sure where Scripture teaches to pray for the dead anyway... “ Try this: http://www.catholic.com/magazine/articles/is-purgatory-a-catholic-invention-no-way


33 posted on 04/22/2013 7:00:52 AM PDT by gemoftheocean (...geez, this all seems so straight forward and logical to me...)
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To: CatherineofAragon

Agreed. You never hear a peep about Islam in this parish, other than that it’s incumbent on us to understand them. Actions speak louder than words. Where are all the Muslims decrying what these two did?


34 posted on 04/22/2013 7:02:42 AM PDT by piperpilot
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To: piperpilot

ZIP | April 22, 2013 9:41 am | 25 Comments
Boston Bomber: “Bible Is A Cheap Copy Of The Koran”…

http://weaselzippers.us/


35 posted on 04/22/2013 7:02:54 AM PDT by KeyLargo
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To: Wurlitzer
That is clear as mud and why I find the bible incomprehensible.

Learning about God is not for a single reading of the book, but a lifetime effort of returning to scriptures and prayer.

36 posted on 04/22/2013 7:05:13 AM PDT by thackney (life is fragile, handle with prayer)
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To: gemoftheocean

Doesn’t matter if he felt bad about it. If he didn’t believe Jesus was the savior, and he worshipped the false god Allah , he isn’t in heaven and no amount of prayer will help.


37 posted on 04/22/2013 7:20:35 AM PDT by chae (I was anti-Obama before it was cool)
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To: piperpilot

At the “add your own prayers to these” part of the Mass each week, I pray for those mired in the evil of Islam, that they will be enlightened, that Obama will have God change his heart and that I become worthy of asking these favors. I added the living terrorist this Sunday.


38 posted on 04/22/2013 7:22:14 AM PDT by JimRed (Excise the cancer before it kills us; feed &water the Tree of Liberty! TERM LIMITS, NOW & FOREVER!)
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To: Wurlitzer

Here are the 2 verses that simplify it: it is by faith alone ghagra you are saved. But faith without works is dead.
I find that pretty easy~peasy


39 posted on 04/22/2013 7:23:44 AM PDT by chae (I was anti-Obama before it was cool)
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To: thackney

“Learning about God is not for a single reading of the book, but a lifetime effort of returning to scriptures and prayer.”


Agreed!

However, as someone who programs a lot I can tell you just like the Bible, reading MS help documents a hundred times will leave one just as confused.

Maybe someone like me with an IQ in the high 150s needs pictures.


40 posted on 04/22/2013 7:29:13 AM PDT by Wurlitzer (Nothing says "ignorance" like Islam!)
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To: piperpilot

Muslims will stay silent, as usual.

Church leaders who say we need to “understand” Muslims need to take a lesson from Paul’s sermon on Mars Hill. While courteous, he was uncompromising in his message condemning idolatry and false religion. He laid out the message of salvation through Christ in no uncertain terms. He wasn’t worried about befriending his audience.


41 posted on 04/22/2013 7:31:29 AM PDT by CatherineofAragon ( (Support Christian white males---the architects of the jewel known as Western Civilization))
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To: CatherineofAragon

I think you’re dead on. The Episcopal church is hemmoraghing members so badly that they try to befriend everyone—everyone, that is, except those who actually read the Bible and stand for the Truth.


42 posted on 04/22/2013 7:38:42 AM PDT by piperpilot
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To: piperpilot
The dead terrorist didn't repent before his death. His soul went straight to Hell.

This is likely. But it isn't known for sure and it is up to Jesus to pass final judgement.

IMHO, the time to leave the Episcopal church has long since passed. If you've tolerated the recent implementation of modernism and relative morality up until now, then I don't think this incident should change your mind.

43 posted on 04/22/2013 8:05:00 AM PDT by kidd
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To: Wurlitzer

Iced coffee or hot coffee, not many people drink room temp coffee. drinking slightly hot plain water is kind of repulsive.

The turning point for me in studying the Bible came when I just wanted to know the truth. Of course I was crying my eyes out to God at the time. It is not our reasoning that deciphers the Word, it is God who opens our eyes to His truth. All you have to do is ask, and be willing to have your world turned upside down by the truth.


44 posted on 04/22/2013 8:08:49 AM PDT by huldah1776
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To: Wurlitzer
““‘I know your works: you are neither cold nor hot. Would that you were either cold or hot! So, because you are lukewarm, and neither hot nor cold, I will spit you out of my mouth. “”

That is clear as mud and why I find the bible incomprehensible.

Incomprehensible? Really?

Personally, I think it's pretty clear. The speaker (first person, "I") wishes that the person or people he is addressing (second person, "you") were able to demonstrate some sort of full commitment to a position or cause. "Hot" and "Cold" are metaphors for being fully committed to a belief or position. The speaker is disgusted with the people he is addressing because they aren't willing to commit. "Lukewarm" is a metaphor for that lack of commitment.

45 posted on 04/22/2013 8:12:10 AM PDT by ArrogantBustard (Western Civilization is Aborting, Buggering, and Contracepting itself out of existence.)
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To: chae
faith alone ghagra you are saved.

What? I suppose you're typing on some device with auto-correct ... and I'm more than a little puzzled that your auto-correct came up with "ghagra" as a replacement for (presumably) "that".

I just checked ... "Ghagra Coli" is a piece of traditional Indian womens' clothing. So I just learned something ... that's kinda cool.

46 posted on 04/22/2013 8:17:27 AM PDT by ArrogantBustard (Western Civilization is Aborting, Buggering, and Contracepting itself out of existence.)
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To: huldah1776
The turning point for me in studying the Bible came when I just wanted to know the truth.

Interesting.

The turning point for me came when I realized that God chooses (for whatever reason) to speak in metaphors, similes, parables, idioms, and figurative language that are loaded with multiple layers of meaning. The Bible is often not an "either/or" proposition, but a "both and something else as well" proposition.

47 posted on 04/22/2013 8:23:23 AM PDT by ArrogantBustard (Western Civilization is Aborting, Buggering, and Contracepting itself out of existence.)
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To: piperpilot

Has your mother or father or grandmother or grandfather died?

Do you ever remember them in your prayers?


48 posted on 04/22/2013 8:29:11 AM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: piperpilot


49 posted on 04/22/2013 8:30:24 AM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: Zippo44


50 posted on 04/22/2013 8:30:57 AM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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