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Jesus not found outside the Church, Pope preaches
Catholic News Agency ^ | 04/23/13 | Estefania Aguirre

Posted on 04/23/2013 1:31:08 PM PDT by Brian Kopp DPM

Jesus not found outside the Church, Pope preaches :: Catholic News Agency (CNA)

http://www.catholicnewsagency.com/news/jesus-not-found-outside-the-church-pope-preaches/
April 23, 2013

Pope Francis celebrates Mass in St. John Lateran on March 29, 2013. Credit: Stephen Driscoll/CNA.

Vatican City, Apr 23, 2013 / 07:39 am (CNA/EWTN News).- Pope Francis said that people cannot be fully united to Jesus outside of the Church during a Mass to commemorate Saint George, the saint he is named after.

“You cannot find Jesus outside the Church,” he said April 23 in the Apostolic Palace’s Pauline Chapel.

“It is the Mother Church who gives us Jesus, who gives us the identity that is not only a seal, it is a belonging,” he declared in his homily.

The pontiff spoke about Christian identity as well as persecution, making it the sixth time in two weeks he has mentioned those who suffer for the faith.

Speaking about the Gospel reading for today from Saint John, Pope Francis underscored that “the missionary expansion of the Church began precisely at a time of persecution.”

“They had this apostolic fervor within them, and that is how the faith spread!” he exclaimed.

It was through the Holy Spirit’s initiative that the Gospel was proclaimed to the Gentiles, the Pope noted, and the Spirit “pushes more and more in this direction of opening the proclamation of the Gospel to all.”

The pontiff also repeated a line from his April 17 homily in St. Martha’s residence, when he emphasized that being a Christian is not like having “an identity card.”

“Christian identity is belonging to the Church, because all of these (the apostles) belonged to the Church, the Mother Church, because finding Jesus outside the Church is impossible,” he said.

“The great Paul VI said it is an absurd dichotomy to want to live with Jesus but without the Church, following Jesus out of the Church, loving Jesus without the Church,” he added.

Pope Francis said that “if we are not sheep of Jesus, faith does not come” and that it is “a rosewater faith and a faith without substance.”

The Pope also commented on Barnabas, who was sent to Antioch and was glad to see that the grace of God had encouraged people there to remain true disciples.

“Let us think of the consolations that Barnabas had, which is the sweet and comforting joy of evangelizing,” he preached.

“Let us ask the Lord for this frankness, this apostolic fervor that impels us to move forward, as brothers, all of us forward,” he remarked.

After the Mass in the papal chapel, the Swiss Guard band offered a brief musical performance in the Courtyard of Saint Damaso for the Pope’s name day.



TOPICS: Apologetics; Catholic; Ecumenism; Ministry/Outreach
KEYWORDS: kissmyass
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1 posted on 04/23/2013 1:31:08 PM PDT by Brian Kopp DPM
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To: Dr. Brian Kopp

The Pope is wrong.


2 posted on 04/23/2013 1:34:51 PM PDT by MeganC (You can take my gun when you can grab it with your cold, dead fingers.)
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To: MeganC
Waaaayyyy wrong.

(signed)
Zacheus

3 posted on 04/23/2013 1:37:04 PM PDT by knarf (I say things that are true ... I have no proof ... but they're true)
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To: MeganC

Indeed. That’s sick stuff spawned in the pit of Hell.


4 posted on 04/23/2013 1:37:38 PM PDT by .45 Long Colt
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To: Dr. Brian Kopp

Wrong.


5 posted on 04/23/2013 1:38:40 PM PDT by svcw (If you are dead when your heart stops, why aren't you alive when it starts.)
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To: Dr. Brian Kopp
Well, duh. Of course Christ is in the Church He established!

“Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid. Neither do men light a candle, and put it under a bushel, but on a candlestick; and it giveth light unto all that are in the house. Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.” Mat 5:14-15

So here Christ says His Church will be visible.

“Careful to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace. One body and one Spirit: as you are called in one hope of your calling. One Lord, one faith, one baptism.” Eph 4:3-5

The Church is to be one, not many.

“And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.” Mat 6:18

Here Christ says his Church will not be destroyed.

“I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now. Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.” John 16:12-13

“But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and foundation of the truth.” 1Tim 3:15

Here Christ says, and Paul reaffirms, that the Church will always teach the TRUTH.

Then Jesus came to them and said, "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age."Mat 28:18-20

Again, here Jesus assures us that He is always with us, to the very end.

So Christ says His Church will not be destroyed or fall away from him, that the Holy Spirit will guide the Church to always teach the Truth, and He will always be with us. The Church is much more than a collection of nice people who read a Bible and believe anything they want.

6 posted on 04/23/2013 1:39:23 PM PDT by FatherofFive (Islam is evil and must be eradicated)
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To: MeganC
The Pope is wrong.

Completely clueless, not much holy about him. But hey at least we can all see in writing what he and his flock think about the rest of us.

7 posted on 04/23/2013 1:39:42 PM PDT by Just mythoughts
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To: Dr. Brian Kopp

Jesus gave himself to us before there was a church. “He who believes in me shall not perish”.


8 posted on 04/23/2013 1:41:42 PM PDT by BubbaBasher ("Liberty will not long survive the total extinction of morals" - Sam Adams)
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To: MeganC

Yep. Not the first time though.


9 posted on 04/23/2013 1:44:46 PM PDT by demshateGod (The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God.)
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To: Dr. Brian Kopp

Church = Body of Christ.


10 posted on 04/23/2013 1:45:16 PM PDT by Mercat
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To: Dr. Brian Kopp

Speaking of persecution. I don’t imagine any religion as persecuted more Christians than the Catholic “church” has.


11 posted on 04/23/2013 1:46:03 PM PDT by demshateGod (The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God.)
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To: Dr. Brian Kopp

I don’t believe he is correct on this.


12 posted on 04/23/2013 1:46:29 PM PDT by Resolute Conservative
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To: .45 Long Colt

I remember hearing an old Billy Graham speech where he told a fictional (but plausible) story about a man who ended up alone on an island like in the movie ‘Cast Away’.

The man was an atheist when he washed up but then comes to know and accept Jesus. The man was also going to die alone on that island.

Graham asked if anyone thought that the man would not be saved because he had not been baptized or had not set foot in a church?

He then said that if someone believed that God would reject someone because they were not able to complete a ritual or attend a particular church then, and I quote:

“YOU’RE WORSHIPPING THE WRONG GOD!!!!”

I’m sorry to say it this way, but whoever this Pope worships it isn’t Jesus or His Father.


13 posted on 04/23/2013 1:46:34 PM PDT by MeganC (You can take my gun when you can grab it with your cold, dead fingers.)
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To: BubbaBasher
Jesus gave himself to us before there was a church.

But that is not what Scripture says:

“And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.” Mat 6:18

Christ established His Church.

And the Church is the 'pillar and foundation of faith'

“But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and foundation of the truth.” 1Tim 3:15

14 posted on 04/23/2013 1:47:31 PM PDT by FatherofFive (Islam is evil and must be eradicated)
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To: Mercat

Church=A called out assembly. A local body.


15 posted on 04/23/2013 1:47:36 PM PDT by demshateGod (The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God.)
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To: MeganC
I’m sorry to say it this way, but whoever this Pope worships it isn’t Jesus or His Father.

I'm glad to see that you're sorry for posting a falsehood. It does seem a bit odd, though, to apologize first and then post a falsehood. Normally, honest folk who find themselves about to utter a falsehood refrain from doing so rather that preceding the offense with an apology.

16 posted on 04/23/2013 1:48:53 PM PDT by ArrogantBustard (Western Civilization is Aborting, Buggering, and Contracepting itself out of existence.)
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To: Just mythoughts
Completely clueless

Completly following Scripture

17 posted on 04/23/2013 1:49:41 PM PDT by FatherofFive (Islam is evil and must be eradicated)
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To: MeganC

As a non-Roman Catholic, I take his words to mean the catholic (small c) church, not the Roman Catholic Church. If that is what he means, then he is 100% correct. Those who seek to follow Jesus by mixing Christian teaching with Buddhism or a neo-Pagan mélange of Christianity and a bunch of other weird beliefs are not going to find Christ and his salvation.

The Church (the body of Christ) is where those who follow Christ dwell. Those who try to fit Jesus into their own mish-mash of beliefs will fail to find Christ there.


18 posted on 04/23/2013 1:50:51 PM PDT by Anitius Severinus Boethius (www.wilsonharpbooks.com - New Robin Hood book out!)
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To: Dr. Brian Kopp

Well, he understands his brand.


19 posted on 04/23/2013 1:56:01 PM PDT by muir_redwoods (Don't fire until you see the blue of their helmets)
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To: Dr. Brian Kopp

I assume he’s talking about the *local* church?

Because there is no universal, big-C “Church,” biblically speaking.


20 posted on 04/23/2013 1:56:14 PM PDT by Yashcheritsiy (It's time to Repeal and Replace the Republican Party)
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To: Anitius Severinus Boethius

So all non Christians go to hell then.....


21 posted on 04/23/2013 1:56:33 PM PDT by drunknsage
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To: Dr. Brian Kopp

let’s not let history or the New Testament get in the way of whatever the pope wants to say...../s


22 posted on 04/23/2013 1:57:03 PM PDT by Nifster
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To: demshateGod
Church=A called out assembly. A local body.

Exactly right.

23 posted on 04/23/2013 1:57:13 PM PDT by Yashcheritsiy (It's time to Repeal and Replace the Republican Party)
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To: FatherofFive

no reason to include all of scripture (I wil leave alone your misinterpretation of the ancient languages...) after alll Jesus merely told us that ...”I am the Truth, the Light, and the Way”


24 posted on 04/23/2013 1:58:44 PM PDT by Nifster
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To: FatherofFive
Completly following Scripture

IF any pope followed Christ the Savior they would NEVER allow themselves to be called 'holy father'. Peter never called himself 'holy father'... them traditions made up by setting up a key cutting shop are night and day different than the 'keys' by which Peter established the 'body of Christ' the Church.

John in Revelation says there are seven churches, I guess that just won't play in the chant of being the first only oldest mother church. That thief hanging beside Christ never confessed to any mortal he had direct access to Christ as does each and every individual.... There is nothing Biblical about the need to confess to any flesh being ones sins for forgiveness of sin... Only 'hailing Mary' counting beads came long after Peter's walk in the flesh on this earth...

The Catholic Church does not own Christ... Christ owns all of us and there is no required sprinkling of water to have direct access to the greatest Gift ever given.

What does that word 'grace' literally mean? Nobody earns 'grace'.

25 posted on 04/23/2013 1:58:47 PM PDT by Just mythoughts
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To: MeganC

The Pope is not only wrong, he’s far, far wrong. I’m disappointed at his ignorance of Scripture. This is very sad.

I know of Muslims in countries where there are no Churches who have come to trust Christ as a result of Christ appearing in a dream to them and calling them to himself.

People who have entrusted themselves to the Gospel of Grace ARE His Church, His Body, His Bride.


26 posted on 04/23/2013 1:59:03 PM PDT by aMorePerfectUnion (Gone rogue, gone Galt, gone international, gone independent. Gone.)
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To: drunknsage
So all non Christians go to hell then.....

Yes. The only way to salvation is through the redemption of Christ. That is why Christians are desperate to spread this news. No one has to go to hell, all they have to do is accept the sacrifice that Christ made for them and believe.

But outside of that, yes, they are stained with sin and will spend eternity in hell.

27 posted on 04/23/2013 1:59:10 PM PDT by Anitius Severinus Boethius (www.wilsonharpbooks.com - New Robin Hood book out!)
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To: Dr. Brian Kopp
As usual, a great many of those who disagree have no clue what the Pope means when he says "Church."

Some people prefer being outraged to knowing the thing they're outraged about.

28 posted on 04/23/2013 1:59:34 PM PDT by Mad Dawg (In te, Domine, speravi: non confundar in aeternum.)
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To: demshateGod
Church=A called out assembly. A local body.

How can a ‘local body’ be “the pillar and foundation of the truth”???

“But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and foundation of the truth.” 1Tim 3:15

29 posted on 04/23/2013 1:59:46 PM PDT by FatherofFive (Islam is evil and must be eradicated)
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To: FatherofFive

“But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and foundation of the truth.” 1Tim 3:15

“Here Christ says, and Paul reaffirms, that the Church will always teach the TRUTH.

Actually, Paul does not say what you claim. He says the Church is the pillar and foundation. There are many times in history where churches have gone into error.


30 posted on 04/23/2013 2:00:39 PM PDT by aMorePerfectUnion (Gone rogue, gone Galt, gone international, gone independent. Gone.)
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To: Nifster
after alll Jesus merely told us that ...”I am the Truth, the Light, and the Way”

EXACTLY! One, not many.

31 posted on 04/23/2013 2:02:35 PM PDT by FatherofFive (Islam is evil and must be eradicated)
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To: Dr. Brian Kopp

Why, and I thought that Jesus was to be found in the Protestant Cafeteria of 30,000 delicious sects!


32 posted on 04/23/2013 2:02:46 PM PDT by Revolting cat! (Bad things are wrong! Ice cream is delicious!)
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To: Dr. Brian Kopp

...who began his Papacy facilitating communion at the Vatican for Joe Biden and Nancy Pelosi.

It’s evidently okay to trash the other sacraments, but step right up for the Host.


33 posted on 04/23/2013 2:03:42 PM PDT by onedoug
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To: FatherofFive
Completely clueless

Completly (sic) following Scripture

I'd have to have a little more context before making a judgment. Is he saying you cannot have Christ without being a part of the Church (the worldwide body of believers, saved by grace through faith, irrespective of denominational association); or you cannot have Christ without being a part of the Roman Catholic church?

If the first, I whole-heartedly agree: once you belong to Christ you are a part of the Church, the Bride of Christ. You are part of the Church by virtue of your relationship with Christ, and cannot have Christ living in your heart without being a part of the Church.

If the second, then I agree that the Pope is very far off base. I hope this is not the case, because I think the Catholic Church needs a leader who is more knowledgeable of the Bible than that statement would indicate.

34 posted on 04/23/2013 2:05:12 PM PDT by CA Conservative (Texan by birth, Californian by circumstance)
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To: Mad Dawg
As usual, a great many of those who disagree have no clue what the Pope means when he says "Church." Some people prefer being outraged to knowing the thing they're outraged about.

So one must have the secret Catholic decoder ring to understand what this man plainly said? See now I have had up front and personal nearly 40 years of this same mentality of not being able to have or be near Christ because I was not stamped Catholic.... It is not outrage, it is 'righteousness indignation' there is a vast difference in the two. Most especially when it has been those CINOS that obviously have this church's Christ that have been in charge of making a mockery of what our founding 'fathers' put into writing.... God gives unalienable rights that no flesh man or government can give or take... Look who in the numbers are all about fixing that big problem.

35 posted on 04/23/2013 2:08:21 PM PDT by Just mythoughts
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To: Dr. Brian Kopp

The earth physical church is buildings where Christians and non-Christians go. The spiritual church is all who believe in God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit - I belong to this one.


36 posted on 04/23/2013 2:08:26 PM PDT by Marcella (Prepping can save your life today. Going Galt is freedom.)
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To: .45 Long Colt

Complete false teaching.


37 posted on 04/23/2013 2:10:20 PM PDT by hope (Whom the Son sets free is free indeed!)
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To: Dr. Brian Kopp

Then the Pope hasn’t looked very hard.


38 posted on 04/23/2013 2:11:59 PM PDT by Boogieman
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To: aMorePerfectUnion
Actually, Paul does not say what you claim. He says the Church is the pillar and foundation. There are many times in history where churches have gone into error.

Heresies were dealt with from the beginning of the Church, and the Church has dealt with those introducing false teachings through the ages.

Paul warned us this would happen, "For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear. They will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths." (2 Tim. 4:3–4).

Martin Luther was one of these men Paul warned us about. He so wanted to believe in his view of salvation by faith alone that he tried to remove James from the Bible. "You see that a man is justified by works, and not by faith alone." James 2:24. You have to go through mental and verbal gymnastics to say the clear language of the Bible does not really say what it really says. This is one reason the Catholic Church protected the Bible in the early days. A hand written copy would be guarded as a treasure because of its rare nature, but more importantly to prevent false copies from circulating and supporting heresy.

Fortunately, we have Christ’s promise that heresies will never prevail against the Church. They will arise, endure sometimes for centuries, like Protestantism, but we can be confident in Christ’s promise that the Church will always teach the Truth.

39 posted on 04/23/2013 2:12:42 PM PDT by FatherofFive (Islam is evil and must be eradicated)
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To: FatherofFive

and that One is JESUS not the pope


40 posted on 04/23/2013 2:14:36 PM PDT by Nifster
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To: hope
If anyone believes the Pope meant the Church as in the Body of Christ is wearing rose colored glasses. It is well know the Catholic Church teaches they are the only true church.

Catholic Hierarchy's=Jesus in a box...Now I do not believe that is the case with all Catholics.

41 posted on 04/23/2013 2:14:56 PM PDT by hope (Whom the Son sets free is free indeed!)
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To: FatherofFive

“He so wanted to believe in his view of salvation by faith alone “

That’s good because that is EXACTLY what the Bible teaches.


42 posted on 04/23/2013 2:15:45 PM PDT by sigzero
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To: FatherofFive

If Christ can’t be found outside your church, then you’d better remove all the books Paul wrote from the Bible, since that would make him a liar.


43 posted on 04/23/2013 2:17:37 PM PDT by Boogieman
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To: Just mythoughts
See now I have had up front and personal nearly 40 years of this same mentality of not being able to have or be near Christ because I was not stamped Catholic....

Maybe this will be a blessing and a balm to you. This is what the Vatican II Council said about those who were Christian outside of the Roman Catholic Church.

The Church recognizes that in many ways she is linked with those who, being baptized, are honored with the name of Christian, though they do not profess the faith in its entirety or do not preserve unity of communion with the successor of Peter. For there are many who honor Sacred Scripture, taking it as a norm of belief and a pattern of life, and who show a sincere zeal. They lovingly believe in God the Father Almighty and in Christ, the Son of God and Saviour. They are consecrated by baptism, in which they are united with Christ. They also recognize and accept other sacraments within their own Churches or ecclesiastical communities. Many of them rejoice in the episcopate, celebrate the Holy Eucharist and cultivate devotion toward the Virgin Mother of God. They also share with us in prayer and other spiritual benefits. Likewise we can say that in some real way they are joined with us in the Holy Spirit, for to them too He gives His gifts and graces whereby He is operative among them with His sanctifying power. Some indeed He has strengthened to the extent of the shedding of their blood.

That was almost 50 years ago, so someone has been mistaken in their own faith if they have been conveying to you that you have not been able to be near or have Christ because you were not stamped Catholic. The Catholic Church views you as Christian.

44 posted on 04/23/2013 2:18:33 PM PDT by Anitius Severinus Boethius (www.wilsonharpbooks.com - New Robin Hood book out!)
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To: FatherofFive
"Fortunately, we have Christ’s promise that heresies will never prevail against the Church. They will arise, endure sometimes for centuries, like Protestantism, but we can be confident in Christ’s promise that the Church will always teach the Truth.

Thanks

Q. How do we know the gates of hell will not prevail against the Church?

A. The bible tells us so. Of course, the Church developed the Bible.

45 posted on 04/23/2013 2:19:20 PM PDT by ex-snook (God is Love)
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To: FatherofFive
"Completly following Scripture"

"And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?"----John 11:26.

Jesus said it, and yes, I do believe it. THAT is Scripture.

You and Francis are wrong.

46 posted on 04/23/2013 2:19:27 PM PDT by CatherineofAragon ( (Support Christian white males---the architects of the jewel known as Western Civilization))
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To: Yashcheritsiy
Saint Irenaeus (died A.D. 202): “[The Church] is the entrance to life; all others are thieves and robbers. On this account we are bound to avoid them… We hear it declared of the unbelieving and the blinded of this world that they shall not inherit the world of life which is to come… Resist them in defense of the only true and life giving faith, which the Church has received from the Apostles and imparted to her sons.” (Against Heresies , Book III)

Origen (died A.D. 254): “Let no man deceive himself. Outside this house, that is, outside the Church no one is saved.” (In Iesu Nave homiliae )

Saint Cyprian (died A.D. 258): “He who has turned his back on the Church of Christ shall not come to the rewards of Christ; he is an alien, a worldling, an enemy. You cannot have God for your Father if you have not the Church for your mother. Our Lord warns us when He says: `he that is not with Me is against Me, and he that gathereth not with Me scattereth.’ Whosoever breaks the peace and harmony of Christ acts against Christ; whoever gathers elsewhere than in the Church scatters the Church of Christ.” (Unity of the Catholic Church )

“He who does not hold this unity, does not hold the law of God, does not hold the faith of the Father and the Son, does not hold life and salvation.” (Patrologiae Cursus Completus: Latina , Father Migne)

“Nay, though they should suffer death for the confession of the Name, the guilt of such men is not removed even by their blood…No martyr can he be who is not in the Church.” (Ancient Christian Writers )

Bishop Firmilean (died A.D. 269): “What is the greatness of his error, and what the depth of his blindness, who says that remission of sins can be granted in the synagogues of heretics, and does not abide on the foundation of the one Church.” (Anti-Nicene Fathers )

Lactantius (died A.D. 310): “It is the Catholic Church alone which retains true worship. This is the fountain of truth, this is the abode of the Faith, this is the temple of God; into which if anyone shall not enter, or from which if anyone shall go out, he is a stranger to the hope of life and eternal salvation.” (The Divine Institutes )

Saint Cyril of Jerusalem (died A.D. 386): “Abhor all heretics…heed not their fair speaking or their mock humility; for they are serpents, a `brood of vipers.’ Remember that, when Judas said `Hail Rabbi,’ the salutation was an act of betrayal. Do not be deceived by the kiss but beware of the venom. Abhor such men, therefore, and shun the blasphemers of the Holy Spirit, for whom there is no pardon. For what fellowship have you with men without hope. Let us confidently say to God regarding all heretics, `Did I not hate, O Lord, those who hated Thee, and did I not pine away because of Your enemies?’ For there is an enmity that is laudable, as it is written, `I will put enmity between you and the woman, between your seed and her seed.’ Friendship with the serpent produces enmity with God, and death. Let us shun those from whom God turns away.” (The Fathers of the Church )

Saint Ambrose (died A.D. 397): “Where Peter is therefore, there is the Church. Where the Church is there is not death but life eternal. …Although many call themselves Christians, they usurp the name and do not have the reward.” (The Fathers of the Church )

Bishop Niceta of Remesiana (died A.D. 415): “He is the Way along which we journey to our salvation; the Truth, because He rejects what is false; the Life, because He destroys death. …All who from the beginning of the world were, or are, or will be justified – whether Patriarchs, like Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, or Prophets, whether Apostles or martyrs, or any others – make up one Church, because they are made holy by one faith and way of life, stamped with one Spirit, made into one Body whose Head, as we are told, is Christ. I go further. The angels and virtues and powers in heaven are co-members in this one Church, for, as the Apostle teaches us, in Christ `all things whether on the earth or in the heavens have been reconciled.’ You must believe, therefore, that in this one Church you are gathered into the Communion of Saints. You must know that this is the one Catholic Church established throughout the world, and with it you must remain in unshaken communion. There are, indeed, other so called `churches’ with which you can have no communion. …These `churches’ cease to be holy, because they were deceived by the doctrines of the devil to believe and behave differently from what Christ commanded and from the tradition of the Apostles.” (The Fathers of the Church )

Saint Jerome (died A.D. 420): “As I follow no leader save Christ, so I communicate with none but your blessedness, that is, with the Chair of Peter. For this, I know, is the rock on which the Church is built. …This is the ark of Noah, and he who is not found in it shall perish when the flood prevails. …And as for heretics, I have never spared them; on the contrary, I have seen to it in every possible way that the Church’s enemies are also my enemies.” (Manual of Patrology and History of Theology )

Saint Augustine (died A.D. 430): “No man can find salvation except in the Catholic Church. Outside the Catholic Church one can have everything except salvation. One can have honor, one can have the sacraments, one can sing alleluia, one can answer amen, one can have faith in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Ghost, and preach it too, but never can one find salvation except in the Catholic Church.” (Sermo ad Caesariensis Ecclesia plebem )

Saint Fulgentius (died A.D. 533): “Most firmly hold and never doubt that not only pagans, but also all Jews, all heretics, and all schismatics who finish this life outside of the Catholic Church, will go into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.” (Enchiridion Patristicum )

St. Bede the Venerable (died A.D. 735): “Just as all within the ark were saved and all outside of it were carried away when the flood came, so when all who are pre-ordained to eternal life have entered the Church, the end of the world will come and all will perish who are found outside.” (Hexaemeron )

Saint Thomas Aquinas (died A.D. 1274): “There is no entering into salvation outside the Church, just as in the time of the deluge there was none outside the ark, which denotes the Church.” (Summa Theologiae )

Saint Peter Canisius (died A.D. 1597): “Outside of this communion – as outside of the ark of Noah – there is absolutely no salvation for mortals: not for Jews or pagans who never received the faith of the Church, nor for heretics who, having received it, corrupted it; neither for the excommunicated or those who for any other serious cause deserve to be put away and separated from the body of the Church like pernicious members…for the rule of Cyprian and Augustine is certain: he will not have God for his Father who would not have the Church for his mother.” (Catechismi Latini et Germanici )

Saint Robert Bellarmine (died A.D. 1621): “Outside the Church there is no salvation…therefore in the symbol [Apostles Creed] we join together the Church with the remission of sins: `I believe in the Holy Catholic Church, the communion of Saints, the forgiveness of sins’…For this reason the Church is compared with the ark of Noah, because just as during the deluge, everyone perished who was not in the ark, so now those perish who are not in the Church.” (De Sacramento Baptismi )

47 posted on 04/23/2013 2:19:50 PM PDT by Brian Kopp DPM
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To: CA Conservative
I'd have to have a little more context before making a judgment.

Thank you for your comments. We are here to discover the Truth.

Here is more context. I would ask you to look at the “Church” in the context of the clear words of Scripture:

“And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.” Mat 6:18

Here Christ says he has established a Church and his Church will not be destroyed.

“But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and foundation of the truth.” 1Tim 3:15

Here the Church is established as the pillar and foundation of truth. There cannot be multiple ‘Truths’ so there cannot be multiple Churches.

The Church of the apostles was definitely one: "There is one body and one spirit," Paul wrote, "just as you were called to the one hope that belongs to your call, one Lord, one faith, one baptism, one God and Father of us all" (Eph. 4:4-5). Paul linked this primitive unity to the Church's common Eucharistic bread: "Because there is one bread, we who are many are one body, for we all partake of one bread" (1 Cor. 10:17). Jesus had promised at the outset that "there would be one flock, one shepherd" (John 10:16).

Scripture cleary points to ONE Church.

And so sorry you had to move to CA from TX!

48 posted on 04/23/2013 2:24:32 PM PDT by FatherofFive (Islam is evil and must be eradicated)
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To: Dr. Brian Kopp

All of them are merely men that have no more and no less right to claim what the Church is than you or I do. They are not imbued with some “extra measure” of the Holy Spirit that makes what they say correct or infallible.


49 posted on 04/23/2013 2:26:00 PM PDT by sigzero
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To: Dr. Brian Kopp

So give us the Cliff Notes version - do Proestants go to Hell unless they become Catholic?


50 posted on 04/23/2013 2:26:45 PM PDT by plain talk
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