Posted on 04/25/2013 3:09:57 PM PDT by NYer
Pope Emeritus Benedict XVI began to warn us about this back in 2005 when, as the Prefect for the Congregation of the Faith, he led the Pro-Eligendo Mass prior to the Conclave. In his homily, he noted:
How many winds of doctrine have we known in recent decades, how many ideological currents, how many ways of thinking. The small boat of the thought of many Christians has often been tossed about by these waves - flung from one extreme to another: from Marxism to liberalism, even to libertinism; from collectivism to radical individualism; from atheism to a vague religious mysticism; from agnosticism to syncretism and so forth. Every day new sects spring up, and what St Paul says about human deception and the trickery that strives to entice people into error (cf. Eph 4: 14) comes true.Today, having a clear faith based on the Creed of the Church is often labeled as fundamentalism. Whereas relativism, that is, letting oneself be "tossed here and there, carried about by every wind of doctrine", seems the only attitude that can cope with modern times. We are building a dictatorship of relativism that does not recognize anything as definitive and whose ultimate goal consists solely of one's own ego and desires.
I don’t think we need to ‘rethink’ religious liberty in general so much as the ridiculous liberal interpretation of the establishment clause ... which has been re-written as the “endorsement” clause.
A manger scene is not an establishment of religion. Teaching that God exists in a public school is not an establishment of religion. A Christmas play — whether Santa Claus or the Baby Jesus — is not an ESTABLISHMENT of religion.
They might be endorsements of the majority religion ... but endorsements are not unconstitutional under a reasonable interpretation of the 1st amendment, and should not be outlawed.
SnakeDoc
Modern secularism is a failure, and its results can bee seen in the nations of Europe who have abandoned their heritage. Every society has a core belief system and requires it. That’s why we have ‘In God We Trust’ on our dollar bills, and the presence of the Ten Commandments is visible at our highest court. This doesn’t mean we operate in a theocracy as Iran. You have the freedom to practice whatever you want, such is your right. However, the nation was built on Christianity, which separates our society from that in India or Japan. It is distinct. If you seek to wipe out the country’s foundation in Christianity in favor of a secular vacuum, it WILL be filled by something else eventually. Likely one of the two most agressive belief systems in the world. Atheism and Islam, and such societies have only bought death to their victims.
Great Article...
In what way is teaching the major tenent of a religion or religions in public school not an establishment of said religion or religions? The schools should not mention God or gods at all, whether affirming His or their existence or denying it. I am a Catholic and I do not think public schools are a place where my children or anyone’s children should learn about religion.
The battle to squeeze our beliefs into public schools, whether we can win it or not, is not a battle we should fight. We have our marching orders and we have the greatest weapon ever created. Do we need to use it against our enemies’ children? No. If you truly believe, as I do, that reason and logic lead one to faith in God and His Son, we need not dilute our message, dilute our truth, by trying to force it upon those protected from it by this country’s laws. You choose to live here, I choose to live here. We must work within this framework in order to validate that decision.
It has nothing to do with it. The parents decide what to teach their kids and the school teaches what they want taught. If all the parents who care happen to be Catholic, Catholicism is taught, if Baptist -- Evangelical Christianity is taught, if Jewish -- Judaism is taught. Of course in reality there will be a choice of religious classes to attend because school districts have families of many religions.
In America, since the early 1900's, we have allowed that movement which now self-describes as "progressive" to redefine the Founders' ideas of liberty, especially as it relates to freedom of conscience and religious liberty.
May we, each and all, use the technology available to us to study the ideas which motivated the men and women of America's founding period to create such a clear statement of understanding of the Source of life, rights, liberty and law. Perhaps we may be able to influence and guide new generations into what Jefferson, in his First Inaugural, called "the only road that leads to peace, liberty and safety."
"Kings or parliaments could not give the rights essential to happiness, as you confess those invaded by the Stamp Act to be. We claim them from a higher source - from the King of kings, and Lord of all the earth. They are not annexed to us by parchments and seals. They are created in us by the decrees of Providence, which establish the laws of our nature. They are born with us, exist with us, and cannot be taken from us by any human power, without taking our lives. In short, they are founded on the immutable maxims of reason and justice." - John Dickinson (Signer of the Constitution of the U. S., as quoted in "Our Ageless Constitution," p. 286)
Unless today's citizens rediscover the ideas of liberty existing in what Jefferson called "the American mind" of 1776, we risk going back to the "Old World" ideas which preceded the "Miracle of America."
There are those who call themselves "progressives," when, in fact, their ideas are regressive and enslaving, and as old as the history of civilization.
Would suggest to any who wish an authentic history of the ideas underlying American's founding a visit to this web site, at which Richard Frothingham's outstanding 1872 "History of the Rise of the Republic of the United States" can be read on line.
This 600+-page history traces the ideas which gave birth to the American founding. Throughout, Richard Frothingham, the historian, develops the idea that it is "the Christian idea of man" which allowed the philosophy underlying the Declaration of Independence and Constitution to become a reality--an idea which recognizes the individual and the Source of his/her "Creator"-endowed life, liberty and law.
Is there any wonder that the enemies of freedom, the so-called "progressives," do not promote such authentic histories of America? Their philosophy puts something called "the state," or "global interests" as being superior to individuals and requires a political elitist group to decide what role individuals are to play.
In other words, they must turn the Founders' ideas upside-down in order to achieve a common mediocrity for individuals and power for themselves.
"Liberty lies in the hearts of men and women; when it dies there, no constitution, no law, no court can save it; no constitution, no law, no court even can do much to help it." - Judge Learned Hand
That system cannot work within the confines of a national public school system such as the one we have now in the US. We could argue the merits of this system but I imagine we’d find ourselves on the same side.
My point is that as it stands, the public school system cannot support any religious education. It must be left to private schools, churches and parents. If the nature of one’s employment (active duty military, for example) requires residence in a region dominated by a different religion, should one’s children be educated in that religion? I don’t want my children taught that transsubstantiation is false in school, as I’m sure a Lutheran doesn’t want his or her children taught that it is true. So if I live in a region dominated by Lutherans or Satanists or atheists, I appreciate public schools allowing me to control my children’s theological education, as those of other faiths (or lacks thereof) appreciate the same freedom.
This is what I believe the establishment clause provides. I believe it is worth not only respecting, but also fighting for, as is the rest of the bill of rights.
The establishment clause provides against the congress establishing religious ed curriculum. It has nothing to do with parents establishing the same.
If the parents do not allow diversity in religion ed, then I understand that it might get unpleasant, but even then it would have nothing against the establishment clause.
Of course, American reality is such that if we were free people, we would configure the religious ed pretty much like we configure sports or other electives: the parents get to choose and the parents have to fund their choices.
Welcome to FR. Great screen name.
No Catholic is bound by Dignitatis Humanae, because it is not a document that binds. It is full of philosophical errors, and it will need to be corrected by a future Pope or Council.
Thanks for the welcome and hospitality.
I do like the idea of parent-funded elective religious education. It could be a much more affordable and flexible alternative to private religious schools.
It seems to me that for safety’s sake, we ought not allow any taxpayer-funded religious education regardless of the source. While congress may not create the curriculum, its existence in public schools would construe government approval.
It might be construed so ignorantly. There is indeed that mental virus: that whatever happens publicly happens by government approval. This attitude cannot be eradicated by education reform, which pursues a much simpler goal of replacing the useless system that we have with an education that is available regardless of income, is controlled in essential part by the parents who are primary educators, and is in full accordance with the Constitution. There is absolutely no legal or logical reason why school kids can play football, or baseball, or run track, or play drums, but they cannot learn what is truly necessary for their future lives: how to be good, moral and knowledgeable Catholics, Lutherans, Jews or Atheists.
It isn’t an establishment of religion ... because it doesn’t establish a religion.
Endorsement of majority religious values is not an establishment of religion, and should not be unconstitutional. Forcing majority values on the minority is establishment, and unconstitutional. And, for what its worth, that means forcing them to abide by the majority religion ... not simply forcing them to hear of its existence.
Religious minorities are far too intolerant of the majority.
SnakeDoc
The line between moral values and religious teachings is a thin and blurry one. This is not a bad thing, considering how much we all actually agree on. Endorsement may not be establishment, public schools may not be congress, but our protection from the tyranny of the majority relies on sticking to basics. This country could be majority anything, and a strict reading of the establishment clause keeps us all safe in case of a Muslim majority, or Mormon or atheist. After school programs are fine, but any moral instruction during class time must be kept free of any religious trappings or bent. That is what makes this country strong, and will keep this country strong regardless of what happens in the future. We know that we have the freedom to teach our children what we think is best, and in order to preserve that freedom we must allow those who don’t agree with us the same.
Would America be a nicer place to live if everyone happened to follow Christ? Probably, but it’s not worth giving up the right to free thought and belief in order to make that so.
The constitution makes no mention of sports or music. People who are paid by the government are in fact subject to its approval while on the clock. Institutions created by the government are in fact subject to its approval. Again, allowing the content of moral instruction to be dictated by a local majority or by a loud local minority infringes on the rights of anyone who does not belong to said group. Moral instruction is a good thing, but by injecting religious language we risk establishment. As I posted above, endorsement may not be establishment, but we don’t really need the government endorsing religions either, constitutional or not.
31 Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.33 They answered him, We be Abraham's seed, and were never in bondage to any man: how sayest thou, Ye shall be made free?34 Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.35 And the servant abideth not in the house for ever: but the Son abideth ever.36 If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.
Sin is the ultimate tyranny from which all other tyranny and oppression arises. Believe on Jesus and continue in his word. Be free indeed.
"Freedom of religion" was created for a specifically Protestant context in which the basics were universally assumed (and therefore public) while various other matters were a matter of denominational disagreement (and therefore private). Minus this Protestant context, "freedom of religion" doesn't work.
The greatest contradiction of "freedom of religion," especially when espoused by people who object to abortion, homosexuality, euthanasia, etc., is that it enshrines as a "right" the greatest sin of all: the right to commit idolatry.
All this (in my opinion) stems from chrstianity's transformation of religion from statute to an "offer of salvation." If G-d is making an "offer," naturally one is free to refuse. If there is no "offer of salvation," if G-d has only laws and statutes which He commands us to obey, then this problem ceases to exist.
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